GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: Simonet on 12 February 2007, 11:34
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Ok so I've ordered my Edition 30 GTi, but what am I getting!?!?
There are a few posts on here stating that the engine is NOT just a remap of the standard GTI. Does anyone really know? I've searched but I can't really find any evidence to back up the claims that this is indeed based upon the Audi S3 engine?
Anybody any idea!?
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same part numbers for the turbo , block and internals etc
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So... in three years time, maybe even more reason to own an Edition 30 eh!
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So... in three years time, maybe even more reason to own an Edition 30 eh!
You bet!
If you look at the comparative prices of the MkIV golf GTI 1.8 turbo and the 25th Anniversary models the difference in residuals looks to be between £2k - £3k in favour of the anniversary :smiley: :smiley: :wink:
So, Not only do you get
Uprated turbo and cylinder head (+ other internals) :grin:
Uprated power :grin:
18" alloys as standard :grin:
Half leather :grin:
Colour coded bodykit :grin:
You also get a limited edition model that will hold its value, so that you get all or most of your extra cash outlay back when it comes to the time to sell it on. (if I ever decide to....which I won't!)
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So... in three years time, maybe even more reason to own an Edition 30 eh!
why 3 years? :evil:
mines getting the treatment as soon as its run in :smug:
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Well I haven't even driven an edition 30 yet. I ordered it as I like the standard GTI I demo'd so hopefully the E30 will be even better. I'm curently in a MK3 GTI and I'm still trying to get my head around the fact that the E30 is double the horse power!! I do still love my Mk3 but it will have to go... it'll be funds to put my old 70's camper back on the road (don't tell the miss's!)
You'll have to inform us when you upgrade yours BMX and how much better it is! I still think I'll leave it 3 years otherwise I may as well bought an import and sacrificed the years extra warranty from uk cars.
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My first GTI was an 8v MK3 GTI... nice cruiser but everything else was :sick: :sick: :sick: about it.
As for the Edition 30, this is one thing I can't get my head around. VW go and produce a faster GTI and uprate the engine internals - how much would that cost on a standard Mk5 GTI I wonder :shocked: - and they get the styling wrong and get slated for it... OK the styling does on the whole look a bit s8it, but hey, the MAIN part of the car - the power and how it been acheived - they've got right. Add an engine rebuild to your sums when comparing the Ed30 to standard....
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same part numbers for the turbo , block and internals etc
Are they, I thought the turbo was bigger and the bottom end beefed up. :huh:
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Spoke to my dealer last week about the USB lead I want fitting, While I was talking I asked him how the 30 Edition engine was different to my old MK V gti , he told me that it has bigger pistons :grin: and a bigger turbo :cool:. He says the mp3 fitting is okay, its the USB they had trouble with. Mine should be here now :smug: , 1st March seems a long way off :sad:!
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all the 30 hp is a remap of the ecu, same turbo , same pistons, cylinder head and valves, enquired at the parts desk at vw, so we came to conclusion, 230hp ed 30 is expensive re-map and expensive painted skirts, nothing that cant be adjusted with normal gti, and also was told expect to see standard GTI's coming out as standard at 230 bhp.
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all the 30 hp is a remap of the ecu, same turbo , same pistons, cylinder head and valves, enquired at the parts desk at vw, so we came to conclusion, 230hp ed 30 is expensive re-map and expensive painted skirts, nothing that cant be adjusted with normal gti, and also was told expect to see standard GTI's coming out as standard at 230 bhp.
No disrespect to those that may work at VW parts desks - or dealers for that matter - but they mostly haven't a clue about the cars they are selling. I have seen a post - on this forum - that shows the part numbers for the turbos on the S3 and GTI ED30 and they are the same, which means that the internals are NOT the same on the GTI and the ED30.
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It is the same engine illyan, its been tweaked thats all, one thing i didnt check was whether it has a higher lift cams on the camshaft, which would induce more air/fuel.I expect they have tweaked the air induction side of the things, cus the air box on the GTI is a poor design, maybe larger incooler,and remap of the ecu. that same engine has been tweaked before by other car makers ie audi producing more horsepower the vw's effort. theres NO major changes like you say in your post between both models. Its a shame there isnt, you'd expect more for a limited edition, i cant see residuals making too much difference later , as whats proposed the standard GTI will have 230hp as STANDARD later in the year, before the arrival of the MK 6
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all the 30 hp is a remap of the ecu, same turbo , same pistons, cylinder head and valves, enquired at the parts desk at vw, so we came to conclusion, 230hp ed 30 is expensive re-map and expensive painted skirts, nothing that cant be adjusted with normal gti, and also was told expect to see standard GTI's coming out as standard at 230 bhp.
what a load of BS
how did you enquire at the parts desk? did you look through etka and cross ref the numbers?
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So.... we're not really getting anywhere here guys are we?
I guess until someone proves that the engine has / hasn't got improved parts the debate about the edition 30 will go on. It does seem a little odd how most GTI owners say the E30 isn't worth it's money and that the standard car is too much money to begin with but the simple fact is...
If you want a NEW car then you cannot get a better deal than the E30.
As stated many times on here, to add the the leather option to the standard car takes it into the same price bracket as the E30, however you don't have the other features and it WILL be worth slightly more in years to come.
However the main part for me was the increase in BHP, 30 BHP is 30 BHP and with the rest of the package (even the wheels!) it's a good deal.
Golf stands for quality in my book, and even my 130,000 mk3 GTI has been fantastic, and most people slate that!! The Golf GTI is a fantastic car all round car... the E30 just adds that bit more.
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i have seen the etka page with my own mincers, it is definately the same turbo block etc as the s3 and seat leon cupra, how many times. :rolleyes:
check out the pipe on the side of the engine cover, that is from the recirculating valve, on a k04 turbo car this valve is fitted round the front of the engine seperate from the turbo. hence the pipe going from the front back to the intake pipe.
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b308/RedRobin_05/Ed30_engine.jpg)
on a k03 turbo, the valve is actually fitted onto the turbo, so no pipe.
(http://www.golf5gti.com/userpix/496_Schubumluft_1.jpg)
also check the torque figures k03 torque max at 1800 revs, k04 torque max at 2200 revs
etka part numbers below
195 KW BHZ (S3) 06F 145 702 C KKK
169 KW BYD (edition 30) 06F 145 702 C KKK
Block and internals:
BHZ (S3) 06F 100 035
BYD (edition 30 ) 06F 100 035
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Thanks for the hard work BMX, I'm glad that that's cleared up now!
so... WHEN'S MY CAR COMING!!
I hope this clears things up for everyone!
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Respect to BMX :wink:
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'spect bro
:laugh:
Daz
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Phil Mcavity,
You seem to have gone a bit quiet! :rolleyes:
Are you sticking with your version of the Ed30 engine or do you now, finally, absolutely, ultimately agree with BMX that it is not just "an expensive re-map?
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Yummy yummy - I can't wait :tongue: :tongue:
VW are so strange not marketing that fact but its like the different engines on the Mk4 1.8T that had different internals with each different engine code - I think the earlier ones had the stronger internals and the later ones were easier to re-map or something like that.
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Agreed.
Marketing should have picked up on that
Maybe call it a GTI S3 or something....it would have made my eyes light up anyway !
I was just about to say why not give it the S3 chip so it can enjoy the same Bhp.....but realised that it would clash with the R32 :lipsrsealed:
Anyway, back to re-maps......
I reckon 280Bhp would be just about right.....300....maybe a bit greedy :shocked:
Can someone please enlighten me what the guys do ?
Is it a chip replacement ? Re-programme ? Is it done once and thats it ? Will it delivery the power at the same point on the rev range or is it top endy ?
My evo 6 as standard was quick, very drivable and very fun, so I got greedy, fitted exuast, down pipe, filter, ecu and the boost raised to 1.5 and the darn thing felt SLOWER !
Case all the boost was 5,000 rpm onwards
Before it was 2,000 rpm
So many questions !
Daz
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it would be a straight remap to 307 bhp, if its similar to the old version of the kkk k04 it will overboost to 25psi and hold at about 21psi.
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thanks for the help, I wanna gonna ask what it boosts at
so 25 psi - thats circa 1 bar ?
You think it worth while to fit a dash mounted Boost Gauge ?
Thanks
Daz
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thanks for the help, I wanna gonna ask what it boosts at
so 25 psi - thats circa 1 bar ?
You think it worth while to fit a dash mounted Boost Gauge ?
Thanks
Daz
The S3 gives 1.2bar - linky: http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/audi_news/article_1801.shtml
Rgds
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Hi Daz,
Is it a chip replacement ? Re-programme ? Is it done once and thats it ?
It will most likely be a remap of the chip in the car through the OBD port.
Will it delivery the power at the same point on the rev range or is it top endy ?
Shouldn't be "top endy" as most remaps tend to have an increase in power and torque throughout the rev range, although the peak power and torque are usually moved up the rev range slightly.
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Cheers Hurdy !
How long now mate ?
Daz
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thanks for the help, I wanna gonna ask what it boosts at
so 25 psi - thats circa 1 bar ?
You think it worth while to fit a dash mounted Boost Gauge ?
Thanks
Daz
25 psi is 1.7 bar, there's 14.7 psi to 1.0 bar :smiley:
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They boost quite high then !
Standard Evo 6 was .9 bar
Modified with filter and zorst was 1.2/ 1.3
Then it would fuel cut - horrible braking sensation (ecu protecting engine) - very violent
So then it was a Ralliart ECU with no fuel cut and allowed it to boost to 1.5bar (which equated to 300Bhp roughly)
But, Con Rod bolts had to be replaced because of the extra load and the next step was a uprated fuel pump !
Now this is pretty much a group N Rally car for the road ! The golf is a 'hot hatch' and all it requires is a simple remap with no other alterations !!!!!!!!!
Scary stuff !
Is it because the VAG engines are so robust that they handle the extra power easily ?
Or are the Mitsi engines highly stressed anyway and perhaps the strength isn't there ? Which sounds crazy as they are road going rally cars !
Daz
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You think it worth while to fit a dash mounted Boost Gauge ?
Follow the link:-
http://homepage.mac.com/risowu/OSIR/TT_HEADLIGHT_HOME.html
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whoooaaa !
Very nice !
Daz
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Cheers Hurdy !
How long now mate ?
Daz
Build next week and delivery expected 2nd or 3rd week in March :grin:
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coolies !!!!!
Not too long then, an plus you will see the best side of winter too.
I have 600 plus miles up now and I'm still smiling.
Daz
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I orderd mine last week and have been told mid april for delivery. does that sound about right to you lot?
There seems to be a little bit of bad feeling about the E30 from current GTI owers, I think this must be put down to jealousy, I think us E30 lads need a special section of the website just for us! :wink:
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I've seen quite a few people on other forums who've hated the Edition 30 as a matter of principle. Then they've seen one in the flesh, and been converted.
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I orderd mine last week and have been told mid april for delivery. does that sound about right to you lot?
Mine looks like it will be 7-8 weeks from order to delivery.
Ordered Jan 18th delivery expected 2nd or 3rd week in March. :grin:
I suppose it depends whether the dealer already had a place booked on the production line....if so it could take longer :sad:
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Yeah I was told 6-8 weeks from build date.
I was luck and ordered a car last week with a buil date of the same week (Week 6)
That means Deilvery Week 12 - 14....which is Monday 19th Match...Monday 2nd April!
I'm a little depressed now I've worked that out!!
I'll keep you posted if I here diferent.
Does anyone know or have confirmation of:
Build Week to Delivery?
come on you lucky guys who've got em already!!
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Yeah I kinda get that feeling too !
:laugh:
I mean,.....remember when everyone wanted to colour code their bumbers, add deeper spoilers, fit BBS wheels and make the interior flash on their GTis.......wow how the world has changed !
That's all un-cool nowdays apparently
Also, I'm gonna have this as my new signature......
'Ok OK, its a standard GTi with just a re-map.....happier now ?'
:tongue: :tongue:
Daz
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I orderd mine last week and have been told mid april for delivery. does that sound about right to you lot?
There seems to be a little bit of bad feeling about the E30 from current GTI owers, I think this must be put down to jealousy, I think us E30 lads need a special section of the website just for us! :wink:
No no that won't work... the Mk5 section is big enough for all of us even though the standard owners are a bit miffed... :grin: :grin:
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Well I am hoping for the first week in April, that would be nice, I hope all the salt and crap will be off the road by then!
could any one please confim if a road angel Navigation 7000 would recive a singnal through the front screen? I hear some new screens prevent this for some reason?
Thank you
Nathan
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Message to Hurdy
no mate i havent gone quiet MATE, ive have been miss informed by the dealer (as usual), what he told me i took as gospel, so dont think im in the wrong, hes told be aload of bollox, and you have fun in your ed 30 , im more then happy with my car thankyou. i cant see what the fuss about 30hp for .3 of a second to 60mph, if your a speed freak then it must mean the world to you, donesnt make the slightest bit of difference in my life one bit :grin:
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could any one please confim if a road angel Navigation 7000 would recive a singnal through the front screen? I hear some new screens prevent this for some reason?
I use a TomTomGo in my GTi and have no problems at all with signal. Don't see any reason why the ED30 screen should be any different.
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Meant to say when I was talking about pistons and turbo etc the other day, the other thing that my dealer mentioned was this. The Edition 30 will be worth between £1,500 and £1,700 extra over and above the standard Golf GTi, at part ex time, this is in line with the 25th Anniversay cars. So that makes the 30th Edition pretty good value in my opinion. I have said it before, its everyone to their own, there are so many makes / models of cars out there, we should all be able to find one we like. If you dont like Golf GTi's go buy a Renault Megane 230 F1 R26 which will be worth about £7,000 in 3 years time or something else that suits you. What I will say having owned a MK V Golf GTi is if you want an all round car which is excellent :grin: at everything buy one, the Cooper S may corner better, Focus may accelerate better but there is nothing out there that touches the Golf Gti for all round ability :wink: in that class. When I part ex'd mine I got £15,500 for it, nearly 2 years old, bog standard except metallic paint, 6 c.d. and centre armrest. I reckon thats not a bad deal, take car tax off and vat and you've done well, none of the others comes near it, just my opinon but hey were all entitled to one on this web arent we. My build week was 4 and it is now at the dealers waiting for 1/3/2007, if that helps anyone who is wondering how long they may have to wait. I insured my Edition 30 yesterday with More Than, £278 fully comprehensive including protected bonus worth contacting if you are struggling for a competative quote.
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Wow that's cheap!!
I'm going to ring now!!
(See my other post about insurance)
If you don't mind me asking, how old are you?
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The sales manager of my local dealership told me today that it is purely a remap only generating the extra 30hp. Now this clearly contradicts the other evidence put forward and makes me wonder if VW HQ has actually told the dealers what they have done to the engine??
Either that or a standard GTi shares the S3 turbo and internals already?
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thanks wantmygti,
At least im not the only one thats been told the same, now goes to show that possibly hurdy and bmx may be mis-informed also,
well either way , im not bothered, happy with what ive got for the mo.Hope you enjoy your 5 star "whatcar" rated gti from march wantmygti!!, as much as all those 4 star edition 30 owners!!, hehe, dig dig! :wink:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :wink:
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Hope you enjoy your 5 star "whatcar" rated gti from march wantmygti!!, as much as all those 4 star edition 30 owners!!, hehe, dig dig! :wink:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :wink:
:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
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This wasn't meant to be a thread to invoke this childish banter, I'm purely wanting to know the facts. BMX seems to have some hard evidence so until proved otherwise, i think it's the more believable over some Sales guy. The majority of sales people are only interested in one thing.... sales figures.
I hope we can continue this in a positive manner. We are all here for one reason, we love Golf GTI's
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The sales manager of my local dealership told me today that it is purely a remap only generating the extra 30hp. Now this clearly contradicts the other evidence put forward and makes me wonder if VW HQ has actually told the dealers what they have done to the engine??
Either that or a standard GTi shares the S3 turbo and internals already?
ok you people believe the sales men if you like,
the sales manager at huddersfield said to me " its got a bigger back spoiler and thats about it"
the sales manager at wakefield said "i havnt a clue what they have done to the engine".
vw customer service manager said " we dont know were the extra power has come from, no one will tell us"
nice white one for you lot
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d65/deltic01/2007_pressday041.jpg)
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I'm with bmx on this. Most of the VW salesmen I've come across know very little about the technical aspects of the cars they're being paid to sell. They're the equivalent of PC World's Saturday staff.
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My local vw dealer informed me that there are other changes to the engine apart from the ecu remap, but he didn't know exaclty what these mods were. This is the only dealer that has said this; majority of the dealers haven't a clue what's going on. I have been looking into this for some time now and the majority vote is that the ed 30 gti has the same engine upgrades as the s3, over the standard gti.
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I don't own a Mk5, but I have owned VAGs for quite a few years now. I will says this, VW dealers, including parts, sales, technicians..... don't know very much about there own cars.
I wouldn't even let a main dealer service my car even if it was under warranty.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Dubs, but the dealers are a JOKE.
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the ed 30 gti has the same engine upgrades as the s3, over the standard gti.
Not quite.
Just to be slightly pedantic, the Ed30 has the same engine "internal" upgrades, as well as the same turbo as the S3. However, the S3 has a much larger intercooler, whereas the Ed30 and the standard GTI share the same weedy intercooler! :nerd:
Rgds
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the ed 30 gti has the same engine upgrades as the s3, over the standard gti.
Not quite.
Just to be slightly pedantic, the Ed30 has the same engine "internal" upgrades, as well as the same turbo as the S3. However, the S3 has a much larger intercooler, whereas the Ed30 and the standard GTI share the same weedy intercooler! :nerd:
Rgds
So this therefore poses the question...... Does the Golf have enough space for a bigger intercooler? :smug:
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the ed 30 gti has the same engine upgrades as the s3, over the standard gti.
Not quite.
Just to be slightly pedantic, the Ed30 has the same engine "internal" upgrades, as well as the same turbo as the S3. However, the S3 has a much larger intercooler, whereas the Ed30 and the standard GTI share the same weedy intercooler! :nerd:
Rgds
apparently the intercoolers are the same size, the difference is the s3 has aluminium end tanks, as apposed to the golfs plastic ones. :nerd: :nerd:
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you could fit the forge twintercooler
http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/content.asp?inc=product&cat=0013&product=FMINTMK5 (http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/content.asp?inc=product&cat=0013&product=FMINTMK5)
(http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/images/products/FMINTMK5.jpg)
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the ed 30 gti has the same engine upgrades as the s3, over the standard gti.
Not quite.
Just to be slightly pedantic, the Ed30 has the same engine "internal" upgrades, as well as the same turbo as the S3. However, the S3 has a much larger intercooler, whereas the Ed30 and the standard GTI share the same weedy intercooler! :nerd:
Rgds
apparently the intercoolers are the same size, the difference is the s3 has aluminium end tanks, as apposed to the golfs plastic ones. :nerd: :nerd:
Not quite, the standard Golf intercooler has a full width aluminium intercooler, with aluminium end tanks. The S3 has the same spec, but it is bigger!
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you could fit the forge twintercooler
http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/content.asp?inc=product&cat=0013&product=FMINTMK5 (http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/content.asp?inc=product&cat=0013&product=FMINTMK5)
(http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/images/products/FMINTMK5.jpg)
You beat me to it! :wink: £800 not cheap mine dew!
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i think forge said they tried a bigger one, and it made hardly any difference to an allready good intercooler, so then tried the twin setup and it worked alot better
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I wasn't trying to argue over the source of the extra 30bhp, just to highlight Phil's fate in that all the VW dealers are unsure of what they are selling.
I think from the evidence put forth it is almost definately more than a remap, just can't understand why VW don't know the facts and sell the cars based on their full merits.
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mmm..thought there HAD to be a difference somewhere ED30 / S3
I used to have quite a cool water spray on the intercooler on my Evo6
Was operated via a switch by the gear shift
Daz
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mmm..thought there HAD to be a difference somewhere ED30 / S3
I used to have quite a cool water spray on the intercooler on my Evo6
Was operated via a switch by the gear shift
Daz
Eye but did you actually use it and did you notice it do any more than just make a 'skooshy' sound?
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mmm..thought there HAD to be a difference somewhere ED30 / S3
I used to have quite a cool water spray on the intercooler on my Evo6
Was operated via a switch by the gear shift
Daz
for anyone that doesnt understand, but im sure most of us do :wink:
a larger intercooler does not give anymore power full stop.
if 2 identical cars were raced against each other, but one had a larger intercooler and the other car had a small intercooler, they would set off with the same horse power, after lets say 1 lap, the car with the small inter cooler would start to suffer from heat soak, and therfore start losing bhp gradually. the car with the large intercooler would nearly have the same as when it set off.
anyway heres a dyno from a seat leon cupra thats just been remaped to 312 bhp apparently they alter the traction control in with the remap so that it all copes with the power
(http://tkfiles.storage.msn.com/x1pppQPzd7N2Qx29eJKOHVq8TgdEDq_Xx5MYNXf-b4GYQQigT9stlDrRwVpz3p92SX-xh29B0a6tofuA6P0G9_Dsc0cLQrwOEyytkzqd9jVgRo)
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312bhp :drool:
Here's hoping REVO, Superchips et al can give us similar...and soon :drool:
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Jasus !
312 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:grin:
Daz
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mmm..thought there HAD to be a difference somewhere ED30 / S3
I used to have quite a cool water spray on the intercooler on my Evo6
Was operated via a switch by the gear shift
Daz
Eye but did you actually use it and did you notice it do any more than just make a 'skooshy' sound?
nah not at all.......would imagine it helped the heat soak 'issue'.......but never really noticed
:embarassed:
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the ed 30 gti has the same engine upgrades as the s3, over the standard gti.
Not quite.
Just to be slightly pedantic, the Ed30 has the same engine "internal" upgrades, as well as the same turbo as the S3. However, the S3 has a much larger intercooler, whereas the Ed30 and the standard GTI share the same weedy intercooler! :nerd:
Rgds
Thanks for correcting me there :smiley: (thats what i meant to say :rolleyes:) Seems like there is alot of potential for engine mods then. How would they alter the traction on the leon cupra exaclty? Also, would all this remapping have an overall effect on the life of the engine?
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Oh yeah, and roll on March :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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the ed 30 gti has the same engine upgrades as the s3, over the standard gti.
Not quite.
Just to be slightly pedantic, the Ed30 has the same engine "internal" upgrades, as well as the same turbo as the S3. However, the S3 has a much larger intercooler, whereas the Ed30 and the standard GTI share the same weedy intercooler! :nerd:
Rgds
Thanks for correcting me there :smiley: (thats what i meant to say :rolleyes:) Seems like there is alot of potential for engine mods then. How would they alter the traction on the leon cupra exaclty? Also, would all this remapping have an overall effect on the life of the engine?
from what i can grasp, it doesnt make it grip any better, it just smoothly limits the power if it starts to spin, i hope its instead of the esp already fitted, when me TT started to spin, the esp would kick in and it felt like the motor had gone bang, and nearly sent me through the windscreen :shocked:
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Spoke to Superchips today
He can come out, remap and increase it to 280Bhp at least (they havent done one yet)
Which sounds great to me !
Daz
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Spoke to Superchips today
He can come out, remap and increase it to 280Bhp at least (they havent done one yet)
Which sounds great to me !
That will do me for starters :grin: :grin: :grin:
If you get it done lets know what you get.
Would you consider a rolling road test or rolling road day to see what you achieve from the remap?
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Hurdy,
Yeah that would be a good idea I think
He also said that they offer a guarantee in the unlikely event of the remap causing any damage....they pay for the work to be done by VW if your warranty suffers.
I'm gonna wait til I have 5k plus on the clock then give them a try
Daz
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Spoke to Superchips today
He can come out, remap and increase it to 280Bhp at least (they havent done one yet)
fx/on <cough - bull$hit - couch, hears sounds of Tight Fit song: Fantassy Island> fx/off
Hmmm . . . I would seriously reconsider using Superchips! They don't have a particularly good reputation, and many of their dealers have kicked them into touch, as their back-up and R&D was pants. Any good chip tuner will dyno the car before and after - how are Superchips gonna do that if they have to come to you (which they would have to, as they now have no dealers, unlike REVO etc)?!
The Bosch MED9 ECU was exceedingly hard, and took a very long time to crack, as was well reported on AudiWorld and VWvortex.
I would only use the VAG specialist chip tuners, such as REVO or Oettinger http://www.rsdcars-uk.co.uk/Oettinger.htm - who have proven, dedicated VAG tuning experience, rather than the "jack of all trades, master of none" Superchips.
Look at the Oettinger stuff, and you'll see a lot more than chip tuning to get the 310Ps!
Just my opinion mine dew! :smiley:
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Hmmm . . . I would seriously reconsider using Superchips! They don't have a particularly good reputation, and many of their dealers have kicked them into touch, as their back-up and R&D was pants.
Teutonic tamer
Superchips also have close links with VW and are the Official tuning partners of VW racing.
If you have some info for me that would make me think twice about going back to use them again, then I would not use them again.
I have, however used them in my last 4 VAG cars and had no issues. :smiley:
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Hmmm . . . I would seriously reconsider using Superchips! They don't have a particularly good reputation, and many of their dealers have kicked them into touch, as their back-up and R&D was pants.
Superchips also have close links with VW and are the Official tuning partners of VW racing.
I'm afraid they are not the "Official tuning partner of VW racing". VW Racing develop their custom race re-maps entirely in-house, with no technical support from Superchips whatsoever. Superchips are merely an advertising sponsor, in exatly the same way that Marlboro are advertising sponsors to the Scuderia Ferrari Formula 1 race team - or did you thing that Shumis red car needs 40 king size for each lap :wink: :wink:
If you have some info for me that would make me think twice about going back to use them again, then I would not use them again.
I have two entirely separate nuggets of info. The first, I used to own a Vectra 2.6 V6 GSI, and I approached Superchips at a stand at a MotorShow. I asked for chip tuning details, and they basically offered me what looked like an utter shambles. They showed me a dyno printout, the torque curve was not a curve at all. There was more peaks and troughs than at Hugh Heffners girly partys, and the basic profile was actually lower than standard, all the way to about 5½k rpm. Peak power was increased, by about 6bhp, but to do that, they had to raise the rev limiter by about 700rpm. Close examination of their own graphs overlayed with OEM graphs actually showed a decrease in torque and power throughout the "day-2day" user rev range, between 2k and 5k rpm.
Secondly, a highly regarded Bosch independent engine tuner, who has won many awards for his work, was one of the original Superchips dealers. He still has Superchips listed on his website, but ask him for chip tuning of VAG products, and he will discorage their use, and steer you towards REVO. Why, because REVO have considerably better R&D and back-up, and their finished products are miles better than Superchips. He basically said to me, at the end of the day, he makes the same profit from either chip tuner on the original sale, but then looses out, because REVO have the facility to custom remap virtually immediately, whereas Superchips are completely unable to re-write custom codes at all! Superchips may be fine if you only re-chip, and do absolutely no other mods, but as soon as you start with other tweaks, including exhausts, de-catting, filters, induction, etc, etc - then Superchips become as useful as an ashtray on a Space Shuttle!
I have, however used them in my last 4 VAG cars and had no issues. :smiley:
Fine, good for you. :smiley:
But as I don't know what your previous VAG motors were (apart from your current TDI, which, lets face facts, can be very easily tuned by crude and simple overfueling!), I can't comment. All I can re-iterate, is just how extremely difficult it was to crack the code on the MED9, the ECU for the FSI turbo motors. OK, Superchips may claim they have done so, but I would put my left kidney on the fact that their code is not a match on the real VAG-only specialists.
Just look at the Superchips website - the list of car manufacturer names that wizz along the bottom beggar belief: Kia, Hyundai, Honda, Isuzu, Nissan, Daewoo, Fiat, Citroen, LADA, ???? - a real jack of all trades, master of none! And do they really claim to chip tune Ferrari and Maseratti.
Hmmm. . . personally, I would prefer to use someone who is dedicated soley to the VAG brands, knowing that their ongoing R&D is not detracted to tweaking Kias!
Each to their own though, and as always, just my own opinion! :smiley:
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Hi Teutonic,
Just goes to show how wrong one can be!
Looks like a diesel chip from Superchips is passable then(last 4 cars were all diesels), but a GTI chip tune maybe pants!
Thanks for the heads up. I'll look for a Revo tune if and when one comes out for the ED 30. :wink:
There was more peaks and troughs than at Hugh Heffners girly partys,
:grin: :grin:
As for the adverts they put out and claim to be "tuning partners", wouldn't this constitute misrepresentation? :angry:
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Hi Teutonic,
Just goes to show how wrong one can be!
It's really down to marketing and advertising really. If Superchips swamp every car mag on the shelves with their adverts, and specifically "tailor" their ad in Volkswagen Driver to show the GTI race car, they might seem plausable. If they happend to "forget" to tailor their ad in VW Driver, and left a picture of say a Lada (still can't get my head 'round that one :shocked:) in it, 'twould be a different response from the readers!
Looks like a diesel chip from Superchips is passable then(last 4 cars were all diesels), but a GTI chip tune maybe pants!
I think Superchips are to chip tuning in the same manner that PC World are to computers. If you want a 'puter, any 'puter, any make, to sit on the desk in your study/bedroom/etc, and don't really understand the differencies between a Celeron and a Pentium (and don't care either, you just WANT a 'puter), then that's where PCW excell. If you want specific, detailed advice, or a specific product from PCW, then Cadburys teapots come to mind. The same scenarios can be said for Superchips, if you just want the little sticker on your boot lid, then fine, but it'll be an expensive sticker, and may or may not give any improvement throughout the entire rev-range.
Like I already mentioned, turbo diesel chip tuning can be done quite effectively, quite crudely, by simply overfueling. Better TDI (and turbo petrol) chip tuners also alter the boost, through modifying ECU control of the wastegate/dump valve/diverter valve. They may alter the fueling amount, they may alter the fueling timing, they may alter the fueling duration, they may induce pulse fueling!
Ask any chip tuner to view their 3D or 4D custom maps, as well as overlay dyno graphs (and not just a single dyno graph, showing no comparison from the original) for the specification you require, and see what they say!!!
To see some real examples of comparitive dyno graphs, look at Thorney Motorsports research on Tesco 99 RON superunleaded - PDF: http://www.thorneymotorsport.co.uk/content/site/downloads/press-release-full-290806.pdf , or web link: http://www.thorneymotorsport.co.uk/gcs_article.php?artid=64&typelink=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thorneymotorsport.co.uk%2Fgcs_article.php%3Ftype%3DNews%26subtitle%3D0%26title%3D0%26text%3D0%26toc%3D1
Thanks for the heads up. I'll look for a Revo tune if and when one comes out for the ED 30. :wink:
Don't forget the Miltek too :wink: :wink:. And dont rule out the Oettinger stuff either!
There was more peaks and troughs than at Hugh Heffners girly partys,
:grin: :grin:[/quote]
Since I brought that up, I can't stop thinking about that bird who was on Love Island :embarassed: :embarassed: :embarassed:
As for the adverts they put out and claim to be "tuning partners", wouldn't this constitute misrepresentation? :angry:
I havn't really seen much of their adverts, and never take any notice of them if I do stumble accross them, so I can't personally comment on the "tuning partners" claim. Even if they did make a false representation, I doubt they are quaking in their boots, as our lack of effective enforcement in that particular area is woefully inadequate!
Another classic example of unlawful representation, is Mobil 1. They claim on their bottles (and their website) that their oil meets a few of the VAG oil standards. To meet those VAG standards, the oil MUST be tested only by VW, and only VW can award the acreditation for the VW oil standard. Mobil 1 oil has never been tested by VW, yet they still make their thinly veiled claims that it "meets" those certain VW standards - more typical American advertising and marketing speil, which a vast majority of Yanks, and also a small minority of Brits, are spoon-fed as the gospel truth.
I never believe advertising, instead try to look for independent research and testing, athough, I have to admit, even that can be a potential minefield!
Rgds
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I had my last Mk5 Golf chipped by Superchips. The results were amazing. Unfortunately the turbo paid the price after 2000 miles or so...
As for the E30, what a beauty! I bet it's just a software tweak for the extra 30Bhp, but so what? 30Bhp is 30Bhp... I wish I had one, and as I can't afford one, I'll be avoiding my local dealer like the plague. Just too tempting.
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As for the E30, what a beauty! I bet it's just a software tweak for the extra 30Bhp,
Get ready GTI CV7.......I think I know what's coming next!!!! :shocked: :rolleyes: :wink:
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I had my last Mk5 Golf chipped by Superchips. The results were amazing. Unfortunately the turbo paid the price after 2000 miles or so...
Sorry, my crystalised testicles are a little cloudy at the moment! WHAT Mk5 Golf was it???????????????????????????
And I think you have just confirmed how "amazing" Superchops are - amazingly sh!te, for fcuking up your turbo - but at least you were happy, eh!
As for the E30, what a beauty!
ETTO.
I bet it's just a software tweak for the extra 30Bhp, but so what? 30Bhp is 30Bhp...
Oh do keep up. We have already established that the Ed30 is much MORE than just a remap!
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As for the E30, what a beauty! I bet it's just a software tweak for the extra 30Bhp,
Get ready GTI CV7.......I think I know what's coming next!!!! :shocked: :rolleyes: :wink:
Oi, Hurdy - are you trying to rattle my cage? :wink: :wink: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
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He's rattling my bl00dy cage as well - getting annoyed with people saying thats its just a software re-map. Its clearly not...
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Moi? :rolleyes:
I wondered when someone would bite
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t8/hurdy_album/fishing1.gif)
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Moi? :rolleyes:
I wondered when someone would bite
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t8/hurdy_album/fishing1.gif)
Your gonna have to do better than that! :grin:
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Lol Hurdy... that comment was not directed particularly at you but was general and included you :grin: