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Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: patch900 on 06 December 2006, 12:34

Title: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: patch900 on 06 December 2006, 12:34
Hi,

Recently bought a nice Mk3 GTI 8V 2.0 3dr in black.
I plan in future to tune / mod the car and was wondering what people would recommend?
The car is standard all through at the mo except for a milltek exhaust I had fitted as the old one was totally knackered.
I dont think I can be bothered with altering the paint colour or changing the interior etc.
I would like to change the alloys but dont know what sizes will fit on a Mk3 ??
I am most interested in upgrading to improve how the car drives, handles.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated with a rough cost if thats possible.

Cheers
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: neil_1821 on 06 December 2006, 12:45
I think the largest size alloys you can fit are 17" without any major modification.  If you want the car to handle better then lowering the car would allow you to take corners quicker. You could always removethe engine and upgrade itorjust modify the current engine depending on what you want to do. You could strip out the inside interior andloose everything that's heavy, e.g. speakers etc etc and have some bucket seats, would give you more acceleration. It depends on how far you want to go and how much you want to spend.
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: Len on 06 December 2006, 12:51
wheel size - up to 17x8 with 215/40 tyres without wheel arch work.

Set of lowering springs and adjustable shocks will sort the handling.
Plus maybe a new front anti-roll bar.

as for costs these can vary greatly depending on which Manufacturer you go for.

I mean you could see a set of alloys with tyres on ebay for say £300 or you can spend that on just one wheel!!!!
Suspension kits from £300 up to well skys the limit!
Roll bar - I have seen a Wietec one for £130 but normally £240.

Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: patch900 on 06 December 2006, 12:55
Cheers for the quick replies.

What do I need to remove the engine restriction and how much does it cost ?
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: golfpro on 06 December 2006, 13:04
just re-read that and seen your more interested in performance so the above may not be over useful. Coilovers will make a huge difference to handling. engine wise i dont know, not an enormous amount without spendin big bucks :undecided:

Think what was meant was remove the engine all together and throw in something like a 1.8 20v turbo from a mk4.
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: patch900 on 06 December 2006, 13:15
Again thanks for the info.

As you say, dont want to spend thousands on the engine. Was wondering what I could do to improve performance and work with what I have as the engine is in very good condition.
At the moment, the car still has the rev limiter fitted. So around late 4000 to 5000 revs it kicks in and cuts out 2 of the valves (so my bro told me). I know you can change the chip to alter this, would you recommend it ?

What I am thnking to do at first, is drop the suspension, add alloys (maybe some 17") like these:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/17-Sniper-Black-Alloy-wheels-Tyres-VW-Golf-mk4_W0QQitemZ270061224970QQihZ017QQcategoryZ9888QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

and then improve the handling, suggestions ??
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: neil_1821 on 06 December 2006, 13:24
Besides dropping the suspension i cant really think of much more you can do to get the handling better, maybe give it some negative camber, just a bit more grip. Personally i wouldnt recommend taking the rev limiter off, if you intend to do that then i would presume you want to take the revs past this mark, which isnt good because if you do that on a regular occasion you could really end up ruininga good engine, hence why they put the limiter on in the first place. Your best bet to the engine is either fit a standarish induction kit, or upgrade pistons, camshaft etc or if you can afford itget it supercharged or turboed.
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: Len on 06 December 2006, 13:30
If your limiter cuts in at 5000rpm then its gone into safe mode or something like that. Might be worth doing a search on here for that subject.
If that is the problem then you need an ECU reset. Not sure but this may only a battery disconnect thing but please do check that thread.

As for performance - usual stuff air filter/exhaust then a chip/remap before you even consider charging!

Or just go buy a 16 valve! :grin:
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: adyh on 06 December 2006, 13:31
"At the moment, the car still has the rev limiter fitted. So around late 4000 to 5000 revs it kicks in and cuts out 2 of the valves (so my bro told me)"

Erm , your brother is wrong . You need to check the timing , sounds to me like your a tooth out somewhere . Common problem .

Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: patch900 on 06 December 2006, 14:03
Think the rev limiter comes in over 5000, speaking from memory (was a bit conservative earlier sorry). Do you know what the normal is ?
Have had the cam belt changed recently and havent tried to rev the engine till the limiter kicks in since.

Is this a decent summary of what people think are the best things you can do:

performance wise - exhaust, induction kit, air filter, chip. Handling - new springs / shocks. New Alloys.

A guy yesterday at Awesome GTI in Manchester said he didnt recommend above 15" as he said the handling was awful from his experience, would springs / shock solve this or is he talking cack.

Cheers for the advice, sorry for being such a noob.
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: patch900 on 06 December 2006, 15:07
Does anyone know where you can get a Chip from ?
Looked on ebay but dont have any for a Mk3 8V and dotn have any.
Would the car need remapping after its been chipped ?
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: neil_1821 on 06 December 2006, 15:24
I would agree with handling being pretty crap with large wheels, i think i've got 14's onmine and the handling is great, feels as if it has more prescence on the road.

Do not buy a chip off ebay, sorry but some of them are scams and can really screw you over and screw your engine up. Get it from a respectiful shop or fitted by a professional.

Induction kit, air filter and exhaust will give you some more power, which should be ok for you for i now i think.
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: patch900 on 06 December 2006, 15:38
Cool, might leave chipping for a while. Will ask in some garages I know. Only been able to find a chip online in the states !!

Are K&N an OK make for induction kit and air filters ?
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: Len on 06 December 2006, 16:56
Try Superchips or Unichips.

Or check out a tuner like AMD in Bicester.
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: mattosmoknd on 06 December 2006, 23:06
i wouldn't really bother with a chip.... the 2.0 8v isn't really designed to be extremely tuneable... exhaust (you have), filter (change the panel filter for k&n or something, but don't bother with the cone ones), suspension, good tyres.......
the 8v lump is quicker than the 16v from 50-70 mph anyway so don't worry that yours is really slow or anything!
If you wanted a seriously quick car then you shouldn't have bothered getting an 8v...
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: patch900 on 07 December 2006, 10:21
Cheers matto for the info,

Probably will drop the chip and do the rest of the stuff
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: Len on 07 December 2006, 10:40
Bollix matto! 16v is faster than 8v full stop! anytime any speed.
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: adyh on 07 December 2006, 10:53
Bollix matto! 16v is faster than 8v full stop! anytime any speed.

oh dear , not again !!
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: Len on 07 December 2006, 11:00
Its all that low down torque cr@p again!

Yes if you look at 5th gear figures only then possibly its correct but what idiot doesnt change gear to accelerate???? :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: mattosmoknd on 07 December 2006, 11:20
right ok can't be @rsed to argue... it is 5th gear torque your right so look at the manufacturers listings.....
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: Len on 07 December 2006, 11:41
Well we both start at 50 mph in 5th then. You stay in 5th and accelerate, I will change down and leave you for dust!
So which is faster in the real world????
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: neil_1821 on 07 December 2006, 12:43
sorry to argue but i think an 8V is quicker than a 16V, i dont know the technical terms as to why it just feels like it is.
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: Len on 07 December 2006, 13:16
Put up or shut up!

I am willing to go anywhere thats safe (not on public roads) and race an 8v.

So how about it? Lets put an end to all this 8v is faster sh!t once and for all.

I have issued this challenge before but no 8v waster has had the guts to take it up!

So come on all you keyboard warriors!
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: Greg on 07 December 2006, 13:41
Hi Patch,
I'm very keen on good handling, carwise its the most important thing to me.
Here's my instructions for optimising a mk3gti for fast road use...

Keep your wheels 15s or 16s - get whatever is lightest, i use vr6 bbs rims as they are lighter than the standard gti ones, plus they are dirt cheap 2nd hand. If 15"s i find 32psi front/29psi rear works best.

Change the bushes, especially the rear beam bushes (about £120 fitted), they go off after about 40k miles, so yours will almost definitely be knackered. poly or standard rubber ones, it makes little difference. Fronts are nice to do too, although the rears are almost always in worse condition on older mk3s.

Buy a suspension kit from a respectable company. My koni kit is great and was only £380. 40mm lower all round, top adjustable at the front. I keep it at about 50%. Check your top mounts, if they are even a little bit split or out of shape, get fresh ones. There's no point getting the suspension sorted if you are gonna use crappy top mounts.

Then AFTER all that, get the camber at the front set to 1degree negative and the rears set to 0.5deg neg.

Then do the tracking and keep it neutral, if anything maybe a tiny hint out toe out at the front.

Thats it. It should handle better than any mk3 gti ever did from the showroom,
providing your chassis & suspension components are all straight etc. :)
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: Greg on 07 December 2006, 13:47
sorry to argue but i think an 8V is quicker than a 16V, i dont know the technical terms as to why it just feels like it is.

I regularly get to drive both, the 8v feels quicker for day to day driving - ie. changing gear at 4k rpms. The 16v is definitly quicker when changing gear at 7k rpms. The torque of the 8v does make it feel powerful, and it would do a 16v off the line until the 16v gets over 5k rpms .

Be nice to see an unmodded example of each next to each other at santa pod :)
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: mattosmoknd on 07 December 2006, 16:37
Put up or shut up!

I am willing to go anywhere thats safe (not on public roads) and race an 8v.

So how about it? Lets put an end to all this 8v is faster sh!t once and for all.

I have issued this challenge before but no 8v waster has had the guts to take it up!

So come on all you keyboard warriors!


we are merely quoting vw material.... so argue if you like, but your wrong!!!

i am not saying the 8v is faster full stop as it isn't at all... but it is better when in 5th for overtaking, oh and some people do overtake in fifth,,,,,

Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: Len on 07 December 2006, 16:43
I'm not arguing just stating true life facts! Rather than statistics!

If wannabe 8 valvers keep trying to big up their cars and wont take up my challenge, then you are just keyboard warriors without the convictions of the drivel they are typing on here!

So as I say Put up or shut up!
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: mattosmoknd on 07 December 2006, 18:11
wtf is your problem,,,,
'keyboard warriors' and all that you make yourself sound like a d!ck !!!!
i was quoting a stat,,, believe it or not i don't really care what the 'real world' stat is...
this thread has been hijacked by your need to race an 8v... and putting down 8v owners,,, pretty sad really...  :angry:
now just shut up!
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: Len on 08 December 2006, 13:06
Well just stop saying the 8v is faster! Which you did and then quoted a stat to try and back that up!

It is a blatant lie and misleading to people who dont know the truth!

So its you that should shut up and not give out misleading cr@p!
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: NewStu on 08 December 2006, 14:09
Go Len go len its y birthday get busy!
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: Len on 08 December 2006, 16:19
Yea I know but its been dragging on and on for years now and its so not true!

I have just got so fed up with it and its time it was stopped.
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: mattosmoknd on 08 December 2006, 16:31
well thanks for enlightening us all on how you know best....  :grin: :grin:

facts talk louder than your cr@p, sorry to disappoint you, says it in the vw bumpf.... so they must be lying!!!!

Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: SLIM-DUB on 08 December 2006, 16:47
wtf?? whos handbags bigger than whos? whats this thread about,2.0 8v versus 2.0 16v mk3s? there both pants and youd best get a vr!!!!  :tongue: :grin: :wink: as for tuning possiblities well if ya got the money to go all the way to charging or turbo'ing then u wouldve been better off getting a supercharged/vr6 in the 1st place,otherwise the tuning is pretty wank until you spend mega money! oh and len has been known to br wrong,but the way ure dishing it out is bang out of order! shame coz this was such a nice place!  :angry:
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: carl on 08 December 2006, 20:35
len mate
why dont me and you finally sort this and have a run up the drag strip against the 8vs (if any turn up)at the next show and i will pay for anyone in a 8v who wins me.
(hope i dont stall) :undecided: :undecided:
cant wait.
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: SLIM-DUB on 08 December 2006, 20:45
might ave to get my 8v in a fit state for this!  :wink:
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: carl on 08 December 2006, 21:23
how many years is that going to take :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: SLIM-DUB on 08 December 2006, 21:47
who me?! not too long,all runs fine just tatty,then it would be funny to see the look on ya face when it does ya!  :smug: :wink: all else fails i'll just bang some gti badges on the vr instead!!  :grin: :grin:
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: patch900 on 09 December 2006, 12:26
Help someone has hijacked my thread  :laugh:

The original point of this thread was I bought an 8V GTI and wanted to upgrade it a bit.
I dont care if it cant outrace a 16V or a VR6 over a standing quarter.
I know I didnt  buy a ferrari and I also know I didnt buy a Corsa with plans to put a lovely body kit on it.
What I do know if that my brothers ZXR 750 would leave us all in its dust.
My point was I wanted some advice, friendly preferably.  :rolleyes:
I bought a GTI cos I wanted a nice car which can shift if it needs to and you can hear anyone in the passenger seat speak when your on the motorway, rather than having to shout to one another cos its so noisy like the previous car I had.
I also bought because I think Golf GTI's look smart
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: robster23 on 11 December 2006, 14:05
Well said. The Gti - 8 or 16v is a car for all seasons. I bought mine just because I need a daily runner that can be a bit fun. Nothing wrong with adding a bit of induction to make it breathe easier, even if it won't make it a fire breathing monster. I'm pleased with mine - got it for 800 notes about a week ago and it's a peach. I'm going to do the air box drilling with a panel filter and then add a nice back box to improve the look and note.

It's not a ferrari but it's growing on me daily!

 ;)
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: monkeyalan on 11 December 2006, 16:29
 8v vs 16v mk3 and mk2 vs mk3 are thorny issues mate...i couldn't give a sh!t tbh.  :laugh:

I find my mk3 8v perfectly adequate in all situations. I don't race people anymore cos I'm not 18 or insecure about my masculinity, so couldn't give a monkeys if I can be out accelerated or out cornered by a mk2 16v or whatever.

I can't be arsed to read the whole thread again but tuning for the 8v follows the same route for all older NA cars.

airfilter, exhaust, remap.

after that your looking at headwork, porting polishing and bigger valves etc. £Â£Ã‚£Ã‚£Ã‚£Ã‚£
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: patch900 on 11 December 2006, 16:47
Cheers Alan,
Thats the kind of info I was after until this went a bit haywire for a while - my ball is better than your ball etc
As you say, I am just happy to have a car that reponds when you hit the gas. I am 32 so not bothered about racing etc, just wanted a nice motor.
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: monkeyalan on 11 December 2006, 16:57
it's all fun  :laugh:

Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: Rideandy on 11 December 2006, 23:08
My 8v will well whoop a 16v!




Len? :grin:
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: patch900 on 12 December 2006, 09:14
Oh no, not again  :laugh:
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: monkeyalan on 12 December 2006, 13:19
it's like poking a hungry old bear with a pointy stick.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: Len on 12 December 2006, 13:33
C'mon and prove it then!

 :grin:
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: Rideandy on 12 December 2006, 15:02
Where you at Len? :angry:
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: Len on 12 December 2006, 15:24
Check my profile.

So what so special about your 8v then? gas flow head? huge valves? high lift cam?
Coz if its standard you dont stand a chance!  :smug: :grin:
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: patch900 on 12 December 2006, 15:58
My 8V could take his 8V  :laugh:
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: Len on 12 December 2006, 16:25
take on all comers me!

But my c*cks bigger than yours! :laugh:
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: Rideandy on 12 December 2006, 22:29
Ok Len, no mods mate , why what mods do you need/ have?
You still don't say where your at?
Your pants filling?
 :smiley:

Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: Rideandy on 12 December 2006, 22:41
Sorry Len, just checked your profile, didn't mean the thing about your pants, I know these things happen at your age!
Why don't you leave it and make your next project a turbo stair lift! :grin:
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: mase on 12 December 2006, 23:31
*NEWBIE BANTER NEWBIE BANTER*  :laugh: :grin:
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: Len on 13 December 2006, 09:40
At least I'm not to scared to show my location and age Rideandy! :grin:
Where are you scardie cat? :tongue:

You better make it snappy as I am doing some body mods over the winter and I may take it into my head to chip the car as well. Then you would have even less chance than you do now! :laugh:
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: patch900 on 13 December 2006, 10:01
Help  :tongue: Its all started again  :laugh:

By the way I have got a mean Robin Reliant, that would take you all  :wink:
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: Rideandy on 13 December 2006, 10:39
Bedford
25
 :smiley:


Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: Len on 13 December 2006, 11:02
Help  :tongue: Its all started again  :laugh:


Nah just a bit of friendly banter! I think! :undecided: :laugh:


Not that far away then Rideandy!
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: patch900 on 13 December 2006, 20:23
Just saw a guy in the street and he said my 8V would easy beat any 16V  :laugh: He had a white stick and thick glasses but seemed to know what he was on about  :cool:
Title: Re: Mk3 tuning / mod advice needed
Post by: bulk66 on 24 December 2006, 23:47
This is the best thread ever, ill start it going again ..... :grin: