GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: judderi on 23 April 2003, 16:23
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My 16v is cutting out then going again at high revs (inbetween 4 and 5 usually) as if i was running out of petrol. This is not good when trying to have a little race. although the backfires are pretty impressive. It doesent always do it. i cant be the only person to have this trouble. Please help somebody! i dont really know where to start. ignition? fuel? throttle?
ive got it booked in at my local vw garage to a diagnosis test. im not really expecting that to find anything though, maybee im just to sceptical :-/. Either that or im just >:( Pi*?ed off at the guy for saying is it worth spending 40 quid on? Have you seen the car! ??? its the best mk 2 conversion ever. Or just in the town anyway! ?:)
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Try talking to the boys and girls on www.clubgti.com they might be able to help
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I got a mk3 16v a year ago, i have had a 2 or 3 incidents when there is sudden power loss for a split second, it's happened in third or forth gear between 3- 4k revs. It has'nt happened for about 6 months though, i thought it might get worse. I can't tell you what the problem is cos i dont know!? but if you find out, let me know. Maybe the conversion has exagerated the problem?
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Whe hey another 16v does exist! I have so far changed the dizzy cap and rotor arm and there has been a noticable improvement but its still there. Next on my list is spark plugs cos im almost convinced the problem is to do with ignition. I had a chance on a long journey to toy with it and i found that it only did it inbetween 4,200 and 5,000 revs. The plugs are a good bet i think cos i recently hydraulic'ed the engine and the plugs have probably had water forced down the ceramic and electrode (which cant be good!) Anyway will let you know once i have tried it.
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sounds to be what i have ,
have changed plugs, leads new dist cap changed ignition coil with no results, its doing my tits in.
my car is into the garage again on wensday will get back to you with the results.
later.
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I stripped all my throttle down and cleaned it and now the dam thing is idling to high and still doing the kangaroo hop. I am thinking about getting it rolling road tuned next pay day. will keep you posted if this solves it. i now have changed plugs cap and rotor arm.
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dropped car off last night,
mechanic thinks it might be cam shaft sensor,
some thing about when the cars under load its not sending a good enough signal to get the right spark, if this makes sense to anyone please comemt cos i dont have a scooby :-[ :-[
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:o He might be right y know. Now i think of it my mate had a volvo with a similar problem and he changed all sorts at great expense and in the end it was a little crank sensor that cost about a tenner. Hmmmm so are you getting it done? If so let me know if it worked and how much it cost. Cheers
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garage just phoned,
?145 for cam shaft sensor
plus two hours labour.
oh well whats a flexible friend for anyway!!
:-/ :-/
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JUST BEEN TOLD WONT GET HER BACK TILL TOMORROW,
SO WILL TELL YOU MORE WHEN I GET HER BACK.
;)
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drove it away from garage after new sensor fitted, seemed fine went to drop a gear started doing it again.
took it back to garage to see if they could find anything else.
heres hopeing :o :o
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;)Brains I have good news! ;)
>:(Well i started to have idle tickover problems as well as the violent juddering. it was ticking over at 15 thou. ?>:( So i investigated and at the front of the engine under the plastic bit that the plug leads clip into is an idle controll valve. its round with 1 hose connecting into it that leads off to the air intake and an electric plug. I disconected the electric plug while the engine was running and the idle tickover dropped to normal. So i left it like that. Since then i have thrashed the living daylights out of the car and it hasnt once done the missfire judder problem thingy!!!!!!! ?:D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D
Have i at last sussed it? I thought about replacing the controll valve but it costs over 200 quid so i dont think i will bother. Will just leave it disconected i think. Does anybody know if this is safe to do?
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;DGOOD SHOT KID!!! ;D
WILL WAIT TO HEAR FROM THE GARAGE TO SEE WHAT THEY SAY, WILL MENTION IT TO THEN TO SEE WHAT HE THINKS!!!
KEEP ME UPDATED AS TO HOW YOUR GETTING ON ;)
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Give it a go yself. it takes less than a second to unplug it. It could make y day! P.S forgot to ask. is yours a mk 2 16v?
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JUST BEEN ON THE PHONE TO THE BLOKE AT GARAGE, HE SAYS THAT IS A VERY COMMON PROBLEM BUT HE THINKS IT MAY HAVE BEEN CHANGED ALREADY.
MK3
:'(
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Just bloody try it! cant do no harm!
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JUST HAD ANOTHER IDEA, HAD A PIPER CROSS INDUCTION KIT FITTED THEN CHANGED IT BACK TO ORIGINAL SYSTEM. WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF THE SENSOR IN AIR FILTER WAS BROKEN WHAT WOULD THE SYMTOMS BE ANY IDEAS??
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Well i managed to melt the wires on the sensor together and i noticed a lack of power flow through the range, bit lumpy etc. But dont think thats y prob. P.S what did y do with the induction kit?
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WAITING IN MY SHED UNTIL THE CAR GETS SORTED, ;D
AS SOON AS IT SORTED ITS RIGHT BACK ON!!
WHAT A NOTE YOU GET WITH IT!!
BEST ?70 I EVER SPENT ;D
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Ive got a k&n but its not the propper one. previous owner put it on. does the trick but is ugly. Want to change it really. is your kit just a filter or do you get any pipes etc? P.S where did y get yrs?
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ITS THE HOLE THING, COUPLE OF PIPES.
WAS A BIT OF A PIG TO PUT ON BUT WELL WORTH IT.
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BOUGHT IT FROM A SHOP IN ABERDEEN CALLED CHECKPOINT, ITS LIKE A MODING SHOP HAS EVERYTHING.
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does it replace the pipe/hose that connects to the throttle? P.S you on msn?
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it conects to what ever comes from under the cover that holds the plug leads, i know very little about my golf havent had it that long, but due to this im learning more every day :P
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Got another update for y brains. A mate of mine has his own diagnostics equipment, the same as the vw dealers have and he did it for free for me. saved 40 quid! anyway we cleared all errors from the ecu then went out for a thrash. got the car to judder then plugged it back into the diag. one fault appeared. knock sensor - no signal. i dont yet know where the knock sensor is but its a good bet thats the problem.
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how was your car going without that sensor pluged in,
picking car up tomorrow garage dosent have a clue!!
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if your refering to the knock sensor then i dont know cos i havent yet found it to unplug it. but if you mean how was it going with the idle stabalizeation valve unplugged, ok except for cold mornings - still juddered though.
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been told the best way to find the problem is to get it on a rolling road with machine plugged in and them give it some welly!! the fault should then be traced, as soon as i get this sorted its getting sold so i can buy a vr6 ;D
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the saga unfolds,
mechanic has been top class, as well as car going faulty at a certain rev band he has sussed that it its only at a certain runing temp also. changed relays, sensors and what i had done already but hes still going on with it!!
think some other people might have chucked it already, so heres to my knight in greasy overalls!!
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i take it all back, >:(
the mechanic has bottled it, he tried but in the end failed to find the problem!!
car is being booked into a autoelectrician at the start of next week :'( :'(
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I think you would be best getting a vag diag done first to see what errors y ecu is showing before splashing out even more cash.
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thats been done already, no error is logged.
needs to be on a rolling road with the machine plugged and the car under load,
getting really fcuked off now >:(
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I know its strange and you probably have already been down this route but 16Valves are fussy about plugs, either Bosch or NGK are cool but champions are crud.
I had this problem on my car and after swapping out leads, plugs and ignition parts I swapped the plugs to NGK's and it was sorted out.
Those 16Valve leads are damm expensive!!
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cheers mate,
will give that a try, tryed everthing else!! ;D
got my leads for ?65 from halfords, there were a strugle to find though
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pulling at straw's now ;D
was trying to think if i had done anything to car round about time when it started to judder, the only thing that i had done was to replace stero and put in disc changer. so i thought why not changed everything else!!
thats coming out today,
stranger things have happened!!!!!!
;)
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I really hope it doesent come to that cos ive got more than just a little stereo. Bout 2k's worth and allot of man hours installation. Id rather put up with the fault than take my stereo out! But saying that mine hasnt done the fault lately. Just a stab in the dark here. Does your 16v have an oil pressure guage?
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NO OIL GUAGE,
AND THANKFULLY STERO WAS NOT THE PROBLEM :D
GOING TO TRY AND GET THAT NGK PLUGS,
ON A DIFFERENT NOTE, I WAS PARKED WAITING FOR THE OTHER HALF TO COME BACK FROM SHOPING WHEN SOME BLOKE IN THE STREET STOPPED AND STARTED TO SPEEK TO ME ABOUT THE ANNIVERSERY MODEL SAYING HOW HE HAD ONE AND HOW GOOD IT WAS, NEVER HAD THAT BEFORE AND THOUGHT IT WAS A BIT FUNKY AND COOL ;D
(AM I TURNING SAD?)
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If you own a nice golf. people will notice! Try looking at other modified golf owners as you pass them going in the opposite direction. they will look 99% of the time. i know i would
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Just wondering. How much have you spent on it so far then?
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havent spent that mutch,
all i have done is twin head light conversion and fitted piper cross induction kit. think the cars looks sound like it is. want to put 17"s on her and maybe sports exhaust but saving up to get hitched next year so that might have to wait a while!! the reason i bought the golf was because its a car that doesnt age with time its a classic and it has the power too ;D
what have done to yours, and is a mk2 or mk3
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I was asking how much you had spent on trying to get the fault sorted really. But a word of advice, try and get the car done before y get hitched cos you wont be able to once y married. Belive me i got married last december and the cars a bit neglected now. Still its worth it. As for whats been done to mine, well where should i begin? For a start it is a white mk2.
It has a mk3 2.0 16v engine transplant with a ported and pollished head, k&n induction kit. Custom cold air feed. Hydraulic Bonnet lifters. Pollished inlet manifold and pollished alternator. Splitfire ignition. de cat pipe, full stainless system with magnex 6" x 4" oval pipe. Custom quick shift. G60 front big brake conversion and mk3 rear disk conversion. fully adjustable koni suspension. 15" steel wheels (would prefer alloys like) G60 wide arches and skirts. Big bumpers with lights. 2 lamp 3 slot de badged grille. Passenger delocked handle. one off spoiler. lexus rear lights. Be baddged hood.
Inside it has a custom re arranged dash due to a 3 guage pod (oil pressure, volt metere and oil temp) where the stereo would normally go. Custom pollished plates made for the guages and moved window switches and lighter. momo steering wheel and sparco pedals. leather door cards with speaker pods. chrome interior handles. chrome golf ball gear knob. recaro electric seats front and rear.
Stereo, where do i begin. Crossover built into the middle console up front. 1 vibe amp. 2 genexia amps. 2 infinity perfect subs in sealed boxes. infinity components up front with tweeters mounted on pillars. infinity kappa 6x9 at rear. sony mini disk head unit with a 6 disk mp3 multichanger in glove box. all in custom boot build.
and finaly security. all im saying is yes lots of it. knives come out the doors, flames shoot up the sides etc etc. So thieves be aware!
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a friend of a friend asked a main dealer mechanic, and they though it could be the air flow pump. some sort of plastic pipe shirinks, stopping the proper flow of air. once again i have know idea if this could be true, havent put it to a main dealer because it is so dam expensive but think im running out of options!!! :'(
your car sounds well tidy judderi ;)
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If your friend of a friend means the air intake hose is collapsing (cos theres no pump in there) i thought that too but my hose is in a bad way. its squashed up against the strut and is oval rather than round. im trying to source a hose of a seat ibiza cos there the same but with a tighter bend on. having no luck so far like.
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two people mentioned that it could be a fuel preasure problem, they had past experiance of this problem, cure i hear you cry!!
to drill a hole in the petrol cap,
have just done it, will let you know the results!!
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me drill hole it no work, >:(
me now go and drill bigger hole >:(
uuuurrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhhhh >:(
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oh my god
the problem is now fixed!!
changed out the fuel pump and e.c.u relays
at a cost of 24 quid and hay presto the fault has gone.
my thanks once again for the great richardandhazel who put me on the the possibility of the relays!!
i think they should be made gods
8) 8)
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Is the problem still gone brains?
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oh yes my juddering friend,
almost two weeks without the slightest judder
it's good to have her back to her best!!
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CONGRATULATIONS! So if i wanna do the same what am i looking for? Do you mean the relays in the fuse box? did y just change them all?
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yes the relays in the fuse box,
drove to vw garage, car doing the same old sh!t, changed to new fuel pump relay, drove away car went like new!!
was told there was two possible faulty relays which could cause the problem, the fuel pump and the e.c.u. so changed out both, the e.c.u was just for good measure.
hope you have same results!
all this bother for 23 quid >:(
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Can you give any advice on which relay it is in the fuse box. does it have a number on it or anything?
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hey judderi,
hows the car going did the fuel pump relay make a difference?
got my m.o.t on tuesday so no doubt there will be more problems!!
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Well ive blew my gear box up so i havent had a chance to try it yet. My mechanic has now nicknamed me Ben the destroyer because there isnt a car that i couldent brake. Im just perfecting the skill thats all!
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Hey Brains, just wanted to know if your car was still running how it should after the relay changes?
Its been a while since i posted on this topic cos my cars little problem was very slight.
Now, in the last week its juddered most days, stalled at idle, cut-out at a range of speeds both violently(the old kangaroo!) and very smoothly. was your car doing any of these?
I am assuming that your mk3 16v conversion incorperates the mk3 gti fuse box and all that? (Dont know much about this!)
Did you go th vw to get the relays?
Your help is greatfully received. Ta.
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morning kingy,
my baby is still running like a dream, that must be just over a month now with now problems. both relays were from local vw garage, bosh components if i remember rightly cost about ?24 for both the fuel pump and the e.c.u relays. as for the fuse box, i have a mk3 golf gti so evey thing should be identical to your's.
hope this helps
and sorry for delay but had problems logging on to this site
cheers, brains ;)
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Brains,
;D Bought a fuel pump relay from GSF, fitted it today and its done the trick! Yes!
I cant belive the solution turned out to be so simple.
My simpathies go to all who spent so much time and money and effort in nailing this one.
Gave mine a good spin straight after i fitted the new relay, and it ran sweet, i know she was happy! I hope it was'nt just just a freak.
Any way, cheers, what are forums for? ;)
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;Ddont forget to pass the good word on, the more people who know about the site, the more chance there is of getting problems sorted!! ;D
brains ;)
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Hey brains ive sorted the problem too now. While getting the gearbox fixed i noticed the front engine mount had snapped so i ordered a new vibra technics one. After fitting this and getting the car back the problem has gone! Im guessing the engine was moving too much and maybee straining some important wires or something. Glad to have it fixed though. Have you thought of chipping yours?
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I have the same problem on my 1997 MK3 2.0 GTI 16V. I have changed the fuel pump relay and the ecu relaybut it still cuts out at idle or when I'm doing 70mph on the motorway.
Can anyone tell me if the ecu realy and fuel pump relay are hot on their can as my seem to be very hot.
When I take my ecu relay out the car still starts and runs is this normal?
Also when I bought the new ecu relay it was slightly different from the old one it had the little pin missing out of the corner. I bought oit from euro car parts and it is the right part number.
Could this be causing the problem?
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It was my ignition coil.
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Correction, although my ignition coil had broken - this wasn't causing the cutting out problem. It was the crank speed/engine speed/TDC sensor.
Awesome GTI nr Warrington, diagnosed the problem in about 5 minutes with a computer. Total cost ?150 +VAT.
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good to hear you got it sorted!
i had the the crank sensor changed right at the start of my little journey of fault finding. but unfortunately it didnt make any differnce and cost me near on ?200 :'(.