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General => General discussion => Topic started by: Neaty on 25 October 2006, 23:06
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Right people I need some arguments as to why VW are better than ford. Every tuesday I go to motorclub as I marshall a few rallies now and again and tuesday is club night, but every other week the same argument comes up about Ford being better than VW.
I have already played the reliability card etc but they came up with arguments that ford engines are much more tunable than VW's and much better in general.
Bear in mind they are into Mark 1 and Mark 2 escorts which no one can argue with them being good rally cars. Someone please help as it drives me mad!
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Ford produce , cheap nasty throw away cars , just look at the amount of 80-90s VW on the roads compaired to fords
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F.O.R.D = first on rubbish dump!! i hate em,the rs cars are superb but like said above,there rare as rocking horse poo now,my old rs's were rotting away and they were good examples but id still rather have my vr! far more reliable(touch wood)!! :wink: german cars were built to last where as fords tend to have a shelf life of about 5 years,hence not seeing any of the older orions,escorts etc anymore!
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That said cant argue with a nice cossie! even if they are fallin apart
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true but id go jap if i wanted that power and reliabillity and no rot! :wink: plus the money that a cossie would pull you could get a nice skyline or an early evo,not just impreza's! :smug:
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It's a class thing, you either got it or you aint.
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When you go down the motorway your guaranteed to see a ford on the hard shoulder waiting for the RAC!!! FACT :tongue:
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taken on board, thanks
is it true about ford engines being more tunable that vw's?
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how many fords from the same era as the mk2 golf do you see on the roads nowadays?? fiestas, escorts, sierra's - very little.
Fords rot simple
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taken on board, thanks
is it true about ford engines being more tunable that vw's?
For tuneability read crap in the first place. I own a Mini which is extemely tuneable. The reason being that the standard engine is rubbish in many respects. The tuning is little more than improving the rubbish bits.
That said, the MK1 Escort is my dream car. That's what I will buy/build if I win the lottery.
I've also owned a MKII Escort, 2 Capris, 2 Cortinas, 3 Orions and 4 Sierras (and we've got a Mondeo). All of them I liked but the problem with every single one of them was rust. My last Sierra was as old as my Golf but it needed a fair bit of welding for the MoT whereas the Golf is mint underneath.
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I love most of the old skool fords and use to drive them all the time in my younger years (series 1 escort RST, Escort RS1600i, numerous XR2's & XR3i's etc) and always found them great fun to drive.
Main reason i changed to VW though was reliabilty and they all rusted so badly i got fed up with getting wet feet and having the floors welded every year! (I still have vivid memorys of sitting in one of my XR2's while my mate lifted it up on a forklift and welded the floor up while i was sitting in it putting out fires with an air line! :grin:).
It was actually when one of my fords had failed its mot that a mate lent me a mk2 gti he was trying to sell while i got it fixed that got me into VW's! It just felt so much more solid and better built! Not looked back since!
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My first car was a ford! mk2 fiesta 1.1 - cheap, not very cheerful but i was a student and it was all i could afford... :embarassed:
I've had 2 XR2i's and a Fiesta Turbo since then and none of them can even touch the build quality of a VW. The engines are noisy and not very forgiving after a good thrashing...I always had to take it easy the day after a good blast as the old CVH engines really are a pile of crap. Altho I had one that liked to annoy 8v mk2's... :lipsrsealed:
Best bit was when I had a set of koni top adjustables on my last XR2i it stuck to the road like sh!t to a blanket, did nothing else to it, just got them chucked on - set the damping and away i went!
Oh, they do all rust like mad though. Apart from the Fiesta Turbo's which take a little longer than the others because they were made in Spain which used a better quality steel apparently.
I was going to say that I've had less problems with the Golf but I don't think I have. However, it doesn't bother me spending money on it as the bodywork is all solid. Which is more than I can say for the old Fords out there...
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CVH engines really are a pile of crap
LOL, very true, noisy tappets anyone....! :laugh:
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I had a '90 XR2i, was great fun but expensive to insure at 18! Somehow I couldnt see it lasting 216k miles like my GTI has :cool:
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got abit of respect for the mk1 and mk2 escorts as my dad used to rally those.
you dont see many old skool fords on the road these days. only mondeo's, focus's and fiesta's.
TW4TS :smiley:
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yea i agree with the respect for things like Mark 1 and 2 Escorts, nothing like a bit of escort going sidways, barking through a forest. But they are blinkered and only fords will do.
Seems as the general consensus is that fords last about 5 mins, I will make sure I ephasise on that next tuesday
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. But they are blinkered and only fords will do.
agree with that one! Having used to be into fords bigtime when i was younger i still have a few mates who are into their fords. While im now into my dubs, i still like and respect a lot or the old skool fords but they all seem to think vw's suck!
prob just sore that their cars all have holes in the floor and a somewhat "boy racer" image :laugh:
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yea most probably! :laugh:
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I've just come over to VW's from Fords, my last being an Escort RS Turbo with a lot of mods...
I spent an obscene amount of money on that car to get it how I wanted, and could have easily spent that again to get it even better but I just came to the point where I thought "why?"
The car itself had the engine management from a Fiesta turbo, a 1.9 engine, stage 2 turbo, bigger injectors, uprated cam etc and with my own tuning efforts kicked out a solid 205bhp with scope for a lot more. I feel the only thing that lets them down engine wise is the gearbox, I managed to go through 3!! My last was again a standard one but I had it rebuilt but I always felt worried about booting it anywhere as the gearbox would just fall to pieces if I gave it too much stick...
Uprated gearboxes are the best part of £500 for a stage 1 going right up to around £800!!
I always loved the look of the Mk4 Escort and it doesn't really look that odd compared to new cars now but there's no getting away from the fact that they are getting on now. mine was 18 years old and doing ok for its age (mainly due to me getting it partly restored) but it was still showing
Different cars have their different characters, I would love an Escort Cossie but have always told myself if I want to buy one I need to have twice the amount of money I pay for it, the other being for potential repairs. Its not uncommon for even standard Cosworth engines to melt due to a slight injector wiring fault or the like
Oh and if anyone does want to have a look at my Escort I'll probably be in Fast Ford next month but I'll let you know for defo (shameless plug lol)
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I've not owned a Ford (thank goodness) but having driven a friends Escort that was the same age as my Mk2 Golf (a D reg GL), the Golf felt so much better, well planted on the road, no wobbly dash or build quality issues.
While working for an IT firm, I drove a few company cars, including 2 Mondeos, a V6 and a TDI and both were rubbish, even the Vauxhall Vectra they had was better, and I was so glad to get back into my Mk2 after those, even though they were 10 years younger.
I'd say that Ford have produced a few good engines, but if you compare the average (ie Not a restored concourse/race car) Golf Mk2 or Mk3 to the average Ford from the same era, the Golf will have lasted much better.
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I've just come over to VW's from Fords, my last being an Escort RS Turbo with a lot of mods...
I spent an obscene amount of money on that car to get it how I wanted, and could have easily spent that again to get it even better but I just came to the point where I thought "why?"
The car itself had the engine management from a Fiesta turbo, a 1.9 engine, stage 2 turbo, bigger injectors, uprated cam etc and with my own tuning efforts kicked out a solid 205bhp with scope for a lot more. I feel the only thing that lets them down engine wise is the gearbox, I managed to go through 3!! My last was again a standard one but I had it rebuilt but I always felt worried about booting it anywhere as the gearbox would just fall to pieces if I gave it too much stick...
Uprated gearboxes are the best part of £500 for a stage 1 going right up to around £800!!
I always loved the look of the Mk4 Escort and it doesn't really look that odd compared to new cars now but there's no getting away from the fact that they are getting on now. mine was 18 years old and doing ok for its age (mainly due to me getting it partly restored) but it was still showing
Different cars have their different characters, I would love an Escort Cossie but have always told myself if I want to buy one I need to have twice the amount of money I pay for it, the other being for potential repairs. Its not uncommon for even standard Cosworth engines to melt due to a slight injector wiring fault or the like
Oh and if anyone does want to have a look at my Escort I'll probably be in Fast Ford next month but I'll let you know for defo (shameless plug lol)
I have always fancies a series 1 Mark 3 RS turbo, but couldnt afford the repairs every other month! nice looking car though.
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I've not owned a Ford (thank goodness) but having driven a friends Escort that was the same age as my Mk2 Golf (a D reg GL), the Golf felt so much better, well planted on the road, no wobbly dash or build quality issues.
While working for an IT firm, I drove a few company cars, including 2 Mondeos, a V6 and a TDI and both were rubbish, even the Vauxhall Vectra they had was better, and I was so glad to get back into my Mk2 after those, even though they were 10 years younger.
I'd say that Ford have produced a few good engines, but if you compare the average (ie Not a restored concourse/race car) Golf Mk2 or Mk3 to the average Ford from the same era, the Golf will have lasted much better.
Jesus your Mondeos must have been f**king rough. Our Mondeo is a decent car and the newer ones are lovelt things to drive. Every Vectra I've driven has been crap, from the first wallowy badly built ones to the later wallowy badly built ones with the added bonus of indicators you can't turn off.
This may not be a good time to admit it but I'm replacing my MKII with a late Escort. I've always wanted a MKII and do like the one I've got but for me, at the moment, it's not practical as a daily driver. It needs far to much work in order to get it to a place where I'm happy with it and I've already got another project car on the go. Why an Escort? It's a zetec so it goes OK and it was making birdie noises.
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The mondeos were earlier models (this being a few years ago) and had definately been thrashed because after all, they were company cars, and who wouldn't thrash a company car.
I've not liked any ford I've been in, except perhaps my brother in laws V6 Cougar, which is punchy and tight.
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My father had Mk2 Escorts in the 80s and a Fiesta - because of this traumatic experience having to sit in one of those at the tender age of 7/8 years of age, I have been scarred for life.... I absolutely hate anything with a F**d badge on it. Only recently have I accepted that maybe the F**d Focus is an ok car and the Focus ST half-decent (remember it is still a F**d) but I still feel :sick: at the sight it the blue oval.
Ditto that for the following: Vauxhall, Lada, Austin/Rover, any French car, most non-German/Jap cars...
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i had a mk5 escort for my first car,the noise it made from the tappets was mad,it was the old CVH engine,it felt like i was driving a oil tanker when i tried to turn a corner,and i had muscles in my arms like popeye from trying to park the thing! And to top it all off i used to be high as a kite when i started it up from the smell of petrol! apart from that it was pretty much ok to be honest.better than my 306 at the moment, but VW all the way,love em to bits gr8 cars
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do old Fords start in 3rd and chug on forever forgiving you for never getting it serviced? Or old VWcampervan did. I have very occasionally pulled away in 3rd or 4th with the syncro by mistake.....it too forgave me, but I do treat it with more respect! and showing it to a bod the other week, going for a spin round the bypass, there were LOADS of mk2s out and about.
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Had a Sierra as a company car. A 1.6 it was and I hated it! I tried for 3 and a half years to kill it! But it just went on and on! Like I would keep it in 4th on the motorway just so I could do 110mph, never bothered with 5th!
But they do rust!
Mondeo most depreciating car I believe!
As for engines the crossflows were easy to tune, but they never made a head with big enough valves to make em really powerful.
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and dont forget the pinto, a big old heavy van engine! :laugh:
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yea i agree with the respect for things like Mark 1 and 2 Escorts, nothing like a bit of escort going sidways, barking through a forest. But they are blinkered and only fords will do.
Be awful if VW owners were blinkered like Ford owners are eh?
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yea i agree with the respect for things like Mark 1 and 2 Escorts, nothing like a bit of escort going sidways, barking through a forest. But they are blinkered and only fords will do.
Be awful if VW owners were blinkered like Ford owners are eh?
i am not blinkered at all, if you read my first posts in this thread you will find that i have admitted I like old skool fords in particular. And as a whole i think most VW owners are the same as I am but the feelings dont seem to be mutual on fords owners part
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Did you know that the Pinto engine is so named by the car it was originally built for? And first came across the pond for use in the RS2000.
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yes thats correct leonard, thats me spending too much time listenting the ford boys at motor club! :grin:
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yes thats correct leonard, thats me spending too much time listenting the ford boys at motor club! :grin:
Don't listen to 'em mate they are talking bollocks. The Pinto did first see use in America in the Ford Pinto. However, it found it's way into the MKIII Cortina in 1970 and the Capri got it in 1972. The RS2000 didn't make an appearance until 1973.
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keithy the ford geek :nerd: :laugh:
he isnt wrong though, they still brought it over from the us and put it in the RS2000 (eventually)
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keithy the ford geek :nerd: :laugh:
'Fraid so. If I ever go on mastermind my specialist subject will be RWD Fords of the 70's & 80's.
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Ya maybe the geeks but I drove em as brand new cars! :tongue:
I did think that the Pinto engine went into the RS2000 first but was only my thinking!
Drove a Mk3 cortina GTX in approx 1972 and I thought the RS2000 was already out by then. I remember the Mexico came first then the RS1800 BDA.
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RS2000 came out in RHD form in late 1973. The twin cam (lotus rather than BDA powered) first appeared in 1968, the RS1600 (BDA powered) in 1970, the Mex came about at more or less the same time and used the crossflow. It's name came from Ford's success in the London to Mexico rally where the crossflow was used in preference to the BDA which was considered too temperamental for long distance rallying.
Geek, moi?