GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: ScottMk2Gti16v on 06 September 2006, 20:26
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Hi guys,
Just had my 1991 mk2 gti 16v in the garage to get the rear brake calipers done and they've spotted that 3 shocks are leaking fluid.
I've been considering it for a few months and after this I'm going ahead with it...new shocks and springs coming my way. I'm no expert and have been reading archived posts about this that cover some of my questions but I'd like to ask a few if you don't mind:
My main objective is the get good handling and lower it a bit - not a massive drop. My old 8v golf was lowered heavily and handled brilliant but it shook your teeth out!! I think I just need new shocks and springs - money isn't a major issue - I could spend £200 - £300 on a set. Then on top of that I've got a mechanic friend arranged to fit them cheap.
1. Recommended lowering? After reading various topics about 30mm-40mm seems a reasonable amount to lower it whilst still having a practical car.
2. Type of shocker. As I understand it the choice is either GAS or FLUID? Which is best?
3. While I'm at it is there anything else worth changing that's related to suspension? Is there any disadvantage to leaving all other original components whilst uprating shocks and springs?
4. I've had a rake about a few websites and it seems a bit of a minefield - I'd be really grateful for some recommendations on which make/type to buy and where to get them - I'm happy to trust you experts on this one!
Cheers,
Scott
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1. Lowering wise, I had mine at -55mm which wasnt too bad but wasnt exactly practical. 40mm is ideal really.
2. Gas, you can compress gas but not liquid so they are more durable and also means you can stiffen the ride to so will handle a bit better.
3. The suspension strut top mounts might be an idea. you can get some of these from the below website but I am going to use G60 ones on mine evantually straight from my local German Swedish French supplier. You might want to check the state of the anti roll bar bushes too, if they look worn and/perished then these might be worth replacing whilst you are at it.
4. www.venommotorsport.com is pretty good. I had venom's own suspension kit and to be honest it was bob on.
hope this helps
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Thanks for the info, was all very helpful.
I've had a look at that website and they've got a good range of shocks. The venom ones look good and at a reasonable price...can I ask..what's the major difference between a set of venoms for example and a set of pricey koni's or spax shocks. I'm happy to pay money for quality but how to you know which is best?
Also, I see a lot of the sets are for either "non sealed struts" or "sealed struts". What's the difference and how to I know what my car is?
Cheers
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I have only ever had the venom stuff and that was on my 1.6 driver and that handled superb, despite it not having anti roll bars etc with it not being a GTI. I used to out drive my mate in his 205 1.9 GTI on the twisty roads. However I have never had any other type of suspension so I cannot comment. I would imagine it be the ride quality in terms of it being bumpy etc which has never bothered me. That venom stuff is good though.
The only thing I can think of is if its sealed they can not be refilled with Gas or Oil but I am not sure to be honest. That is just an option for when you buy them not what you have on ur car now.
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40MM Ideal
Eibach Springs are excellent
Use Boge Gas Shocks or Koni top adjustable shocks.
Replace ball joints and wishbones also if the wishbone bushes are shot.
replace top mounts.
car should handle like new!
:cool:
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I have bought some of those boge gas shocks myself to go on the valver, so they're good then are they?
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Thanks guys, it's all a big help. I guess the only question left is over the sealed and non-sealed struts - just exactly what is the difference and advantage/disadvantage of them both? I don't think there's much price difference?
So I presume it's a good idea to avoid a full "kit" and just buy shocks and springs independantly - I guess they're all standard sized parts - i.e. all compatible with each other?
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Just another quick one....
I'm looking at shocks and see a lot offer the option of a 60mm/40mm option for the mk2.
Is it best to drop it the same both front and back? Or is the golf better having a difference like 60/40?
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If you have the cash to splash have you thought of going for a set of coil overs? Then you can choose your own height and damping.
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Sorry to sound like an idiot....but what do you mean "coilovers"?
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Coil overs are the next step up from shocks and springs. They are adjustable in height and you can also adjust the damping on the good ones. Will get you a picture. There designed for performance handling.
(http://www.roadraceengineering.com/evo/parts/jic/jic-coilovers-installed.jpg)
(http://www.roadraceengineering.com/3g/parts/jic/jiccomplete2.jpg)
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Ahh...I see what you mean.  So, with cash to splash something like...
Part ID: RSX538
Spax RSX Coilover Kit - F40-80mm - R40-80mm
VW Golf II / Jetta GTi 16v & G60 Non Sealed Strut
Year: 90-91  Â£494.00
(ex. VAT)
(http://www.venommotorsport.com/images/products/suspension/spax/thumbs/RSX.jpg)
or
Part ID: FKAK01
FK AK Supertech coilovers. Kit A
Front and Rear 45-75mm. Special Internet Offer!
VW Golf 2 all engine sizes inc. 8v/16v GTi
Year:  Â£255.00
(ex. VAT)
(http://www.venommotorsport.com/images/products/suspension/supertech/thumbs/universal.jpg)
 ÂÂÂ
  ÂÂÂ
 ÂÂÂ
  ÂÂÂ
......would fit the bill?
(Took those details from http://www.venommotorsport.com)
Now, for a beginner like me - both these kits seem the same but obviously etremely different prices - just what is the extra money for?
I'm also keen to know what the "on car" adjustment is for the suspension - apparently a knob to twist to easily change the height on demand???
PS- Still a bit confused about non-sealed vs sealed struts..... :undecided:
ÂÂÂ
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If anyone's got 5 mins....I've received this email all with products for the 16v mk2. Any good ones there? Any to definitely avoid?
(sorry for overloading you - It's just I'm a beginner willing to part with good money for the right kit!)
Cheers
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <sales@dcdezign.com>
To: <009636@uhi.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 11:02:12 +0100
Subject: Re: Suspension Quick Quote
Hi Scott,
We have the following kits that will drop 35 - 40mm:
Apex: £249.00 - http://www.dcdezign.com/details.asp?item=SP80-2010-40
Avo Chassis Dynamics Kit: £227.48 -
http://www.dcdezign.com/details.asp?item=avocdk95-16
Avo Road Sport kit (ride adjustable): £376.00 -
http://www.dcdezign.com/details.asp?item=avors95-16
Bilstien Sprintline: £360 - http://www.dcdezign.com/details.asp?item=BDK712
Bilstein Streetline: £177.25 - http://www.dcdezign.com/details.asp?item=BSK169
Eibach Pro Kit lowering springs: £122.50 -
http://www.dcdezign.com/details.asp?item=e-8509.140
Eibach Pro Dampers: £321.43 -
http://www.dcdezign.com/details.asp?item=e-60-85-003-01-22
GMax: £205.00
H&R Cup Kit: £326.46 - http://www.dcdezign.com/details.asp?item=h-31-015-1
Koni SSK Kit (ride adjustable): £379.49 -
http://www.dcdezign.com/details.asp?item=SSK11
PI: £207.22 - http://www.dcdezign.com/details.asp?item=pisk4008
So quite a few to choose from :)
We will of course beat ANY price should you find these cheaper elsewhere.
Regards,
Dan
DCDezign
Web: www.DCDezign.com
Tel: 0870 199 5555
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1) If you want really good handling with good ride comfort, get the Eibach Springs and get Boge gas shocks from German, Swedish and French car parts. Even better get Koni shocks to go with the Eibach springs.
2) If you want the car really low, or a slightly firmer ride with good handling get coilovers, but you are going to be looking at £500+ really for any with anything like reasonable ride comfort.
Is this your only car? Driven everyday on poor roads? If so go for option one.
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I thought it was euro carparts that did those eibach springs but when i went to search for coil springs for golf 2 it just has the ventura ones. and just the normal standard ones on GSF
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Awesome GTI and others do the Eibach. I have them on mu daily, they are superb.
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cool, i will have a look! how much were they roughly?
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About £120 I think.
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not too bad, I have heard good things about the boge gas shocks/eibach spring set up and seeing as though I am half way there i might aswell get the whole lot
sorry to completely hi-jack your thread by the way scott
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No probs!! It's actually helped me kind of make a decision anyway - this car is my "daily driver" - well used about 4 days a week (my girlfriend has a lovely :grin: toyota carina m-reg estate donated to her by her dad that is used for mega mileage drives or if I go anywhere with her - a gti ride is a bit to much of a white knuckle one for her....) and I was seriously considering expensive coilovers but I guess there's just no point spending that sort of cash when I could get a very good set up for much much less - everyone does seem to keep going on about the boge/eibach set up so I may just go for that - BUT - why do some people say to avoid GSF at all costs?
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Boge turbo gas - how do i find them on the GSF site? I only seem to be able to get a list of VW parts and can't see them. Are they on sale anywhere else?
I can find the eibach springs no problem - approx £120? That right? It says they only lower 20mm - is that right?
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45557A is the part number
if your feeling really flash vwspares.co.uk have the even better boge shocks @ £50 a touch
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45557A is the part number
if your feeling really flash vwspares.co.uk have the even better boge shocks @ £50 a touch
I forgot this...very true. look on their website, or phone them. There are two Eibach spring kits for the Mk2. one lowers by 20mm the other by 30 to 40mm. I'd got for the latter. You want this Eibach Part Number:-
E8502-140
From http://www.eibach.de/
The only reason I can think of that people say avoid GSF, is that some of the copy or 'pattern' parts they sell arn't as good quality as OEM ones from the VW dealership.
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Thanks guys, I've made a decision on getting a combination of the Boge Turbo Gas Shocks and Eibach Springs, I'm not splashing out on coilovers when this setup sounds great for me. Can please someone confirm the order details below are correct, i.e. part numbers, etc. Are those top mounts the right ones that everyone seems to be recommending?
Thanks to all for the help - without it I'd have ended up buying any old random suspension kit!
From http://www.vwspares.co.uk/g2suspension.php
Shock Absorbers, Front  ÂÂÂ
170130 Front Shock Absorber [Sealed Unit, G60 Gas (Advantage)] (x2) £100.20  (Gambit - are these the ones you're talking about?)
Shock Absorbers, RearÂÂÂ
105776 Rear Shock Absorber [16v & G60, Gas (Not 4WD)] (x2) £49.70
Top Strut Mounts, Front
03456 Strut Mount [1.8 G60 (Heavy Duty)] (x2) £15.10
Sub-Total: £149.90
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From http://www.venommotorsport.com
Springs
8509-140 Golf Mk 2 1.8 16V, 1.8 GTI, 1.6 D, 1.6 TD Eibach Pro-Kit Lowering Springs (x4) £98
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The Shocks look spot on, but look at the difference in the Eibach part numbers. The part numer you quote is for only the 20mm lowering springs I think.
Get these 'E8502-140' as they are 30-40mm lowering.
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Oopss..well spotted - that was the drop I wanted. I've just checked the website and the details for the 2 different height Eibach springs are:
Part ID: 8502-140
Eibach Pro-Kit Lowering Springs
Axle Weights: F840kg - R740kg Lowers F30-40mm - R30-35mm
Volkswagen Golf Mk 2 1.0, 1.3, 1.6, 1.8, 1.8 GTI, 1.8 GTI G60 19E
Year: 08.83 - 10.91 £98.00
(ex. VAT)
Part ID: 8509-140
Eibach Pro-Kit Lowering Springs
Axle Weights: F840kg - R740kg Lowers F20mm - R20mm
Volkswagen Golf Mk 2 1.8 16V, 1.8 GTI, 1.6 D, 1.6 TD 19E
Year: 02.86 - 10.91
I think what threw me off the trail was that "16v" is only mentioned on the 20mm springs. I presume the "1.8 GTI" is what I should be looking for (it's on both of the products). Is that right?
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Now it's confusing:
DC Dezign says
http://www.dcdezign.com/details.asp?item=e-8509.140
http://www.dcdezign.com/details.asp?item=e-8502.140
They have the 8509.140 & the 8502.140 listed saying "A sporty look by lowering the vehicle up to 40 mm"
Venom says:
Part ID: 8502-140 - Lowers F30-40mm - R30-35mm
Volkswagen Golf Mk 2 1.0, 1.3, 1.6, 1.8, 1.8 GTI, 1.8 GTI G60 19E
Year: 08.83 - 10.91
Part ID: 8509-140 - Lowers F20mm - R20mm
Volkswagen Golf Mk 2 1.8 16V, 1.8 GTI, 1.6 D, 1.6 TD 19E
Year: 02.86 - 10.91
Organisys - you say the 8502.140 are the lower springs - this looks right - yet I'm concerned the "16v" isn't listed against them.
DC Dezign recommended the other ones, 8509.140 as being springs that would give my car a 35-40mm drop (this basically contradicts info on website for DC Dezign).
Time for bed and tackle this with a fresh head in the morning........
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Don't worry that the 16v isn't listed the ones listed with the larger drop are the ones you want. They will fit fine and you will be very pleased with the end result, I can tell you. I know I am.
:cool:
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Sounds good to me - I'm off to get them ordered I think....
Only thing I'm a bit concerned about is that I've read if you go lower than 30mm (ish) it may move the wishbone into a bad position? Should I be worried about that?
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Just ordered everything apart from the springs:
03456 Strut Mount (x2) £15.10
08384 Bumpstop (x2) £4.62
14958 Strut Mount Kit (x1) £6.69
19381 Spring Plate (x2) £8.48
01525 Bumpstop (x2) £9.88
170130 Front Shock Absorber (x2) £100.20
105776 Rear Shock Absorber (x2) £49.70
Does all that look about right :huh:
Just want to dig a little further into the Eibach lowering springs - 20mm or 40mm - will the wishbones, etc be okay regardless?
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Well from reading this and other things, the BOGE Turbo dampers are classed as a "soft" damper and the springs are classed as a "hard" spring.
which is ideal really.
However, any ideas on the "poundage" of the springs?
And whilst on the subject of suspension and bushes:
What bushes need replaceing and whats the "shore" of them?
Different companys will use different materials for them, and as such the "shore" will be different. So what company does the best for the Mk2?
(on my fav car i use MiniSpares bushes which seem to be the correct "shore" for the car)
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The Eibach Springs are designed to work with OEM dampers. The Boge are OEM replacement and others here will correct me if I am wrong, but they may actually have been OEM fitment anyway.
For poundage see Eibach website. www.eibach.de or call the phone no. here http://www.eibach.co.uk/
As for wishbones, for optimum handling you want them flat, i.e parallel with the road. 30/40MM drop is about right for this.
Bushes....I just replaced them by getting whole new wishbones (and ball joints) when I got my car to sharpen things up.
I was advised by Automotive Solutions (VW specialist, and track / Race prep specialist) to not use polly bushes on a daily driver car, but it's up to you.
:smiley:
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Ahhhhhhhhhhhh
so standard VAG Bushes all round?
do VAG do an upgrade on them or not?
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JOB DONE!! Just ordered the lower of the Eibach springs (below) to go with new Boge gas shocks all round.
Part ID: 8502-140
Eibach Pro-Kit Lowering Springs
Axle Weights: F840kg - R740kg Lowers F30-40mm - R30-35mm
Volkswagen Golf Mk 2 1.0, 1.3, 1.6, 1.8, 1.8 GTI, 1.8 GTI G60 19E
Year: 08.83 - 10.91 £98.00
(ex. VAT)
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Big thanks to Organisys and all others for your time, patience and help given to me, don't know what I'd have done without ya!
Now just have to sit back and wait for all the goodies to be delivered them get them straight on the car. I'll get some before and after pics up ASAP.
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:cool:
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JOB DONE!! Just ordered the lower of the Eibach springs (below) to go with new Boge gas shocks all round.
Part ID: 8502-140
Eibach Pro-Kit Lowering Springs
Axle Weights: F840kg - R740kg Lowers F30-40mm - R30-35mm
Volkswagen Golf Mk 2 1.0, 1.3, 1.6, 1.8, 1.8 GTI, 1.8 GTI G60 19E
Year: 08.83 - 10.91  Â£98.00
(ex. VAT)
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Big thanks to Organisys and all others for your time, patience and help given to me, don't know what I'd have done without ya!
Now just have to sit back and wait for all the goodies to be delivered them get them straight on the car. I'll get some before and after pics up ASAP.
are these from GSF? I must remember to come back to this thread when it comes to ordering some for mine
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They are from Venom Motorsport: http://www.venommotorsport.com/
Cost:
Subtotal : 98.00
Shipping : 10.00
Tax : 18.90
TOTAL : 126.90
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thanks mate. When you get them could you be so kind as to post a pic up so I can see what the ride height is like
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No probs, I'll get some decent before + after (and maybe some during fitting) pics up soon. Fingers crossed it'll be getting installed on Thursday night assuming all parts arrive by then. While I'm here I don't suppose you're able to give me any info on the other question I've posted regarding camber, etc once I've got the suspension done http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=46804.0
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Don't forget it could take up to a month for the coils to settle in, mine did.
:smiley:
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That's all parts here :smiley:
Top service from Venom Motorsports, springs arrived next day and they were very helpful on the phone.
Shocks, etc from VW Spares took a little longer as they had to wait for the g60 strut mounts to come in. Still....only 1 week on from deciding to change the suspension and I'm sitting here with all the parts and my mechanic is ready at 8am tomorrow to fit it all :smiley: (although I may be looking like this :sick: at that time - got a free bar courtesy of work to get stuck into tonight for someones leaving do). Still...it's kind of like xmas eve tonight :grin:
Mondays plan - 4 x new tyres and a full camber, etc alignment...... The £Â£Ã‚£'s spent are racking up... :undecided:
...it'll all be worth it though. Pics coming soon....
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they are top lads at venom, always very helpful over the phone and always prompt with delivery. plus the products are top quality too.
let us know what the whole set up is like as this is what i am opting for on my valver
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No probs mate will do. I'm just about to go out and get the work done.....feeling like absolute sh!t....a few too many vodkas/gins last night! A nice fry up in Tesco should sort me out :grin:
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i was supposed to get up early-ish myself, but too many sherberts have hindered that slightly, to tackle my gearbox problems and finish off the painting on my 16v, owel! plenty time left still!
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you know when you ordered the G60 topmounts did you order 4 or just 2 for the front?
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I just ordered 2 for the front: ]http://www.vwspares.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=410 (http://www.vwspares.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=410[/color)
I also ordered a Rear Strut Mount kit (from what I can see there isn't a G60 specific rear mount): ]http://www.vwspares.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=425 (http://www.vwspares.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=425[/color)
Other bits I also fitted were:
08384 Front Bumpstop (x2) ]http://www.vwspares.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=641 (http://www.vwspares.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=641[/color)
19381 Rear Spring Plate (x2) ]http://www.vwspares.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=430 (http://www.vwspares.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=430[/color)
01525 Rear Bumpstop (x2) £9.88 ]http://www.vwspares.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=629 (http://www.vwspares.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=629[/color)
170130 Front Shock Absorber (x2) £100.20 ]http://www.vwspares.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=1464 (http://www.vwspares.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=1464[/color)
105776 Rear Shock Absorber (x2) £49.70 ]http://www.vwspares.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=1445 (http://www.vwspares.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=1445[/color)
Only thing I overlooked to get were some boots - just used the old ones instead.
I've now got it all fitted and it's handling brilliantly, however my camber is out and the tyres on it are almost dead, so I'll refrain from commenting too much just now - as I type it's getting 4 new tyres and a full laser alignment, camber check, etc. I'm picking it up later on and that's when it should be driving like (or better than!) new.ÂÂÂ
I've got some pics but need some more, all being well I get them on here tonight.
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cool, thanks mate. I need to keep referring to this thread as I am buying pretty much the same as you.