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Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: 92Mk2Gti on 14 August 2006, 10:25

Title: Car won't start
Post by: 92Mk2Gti on 14 August 2006, 10:25
Hi

I have a 92 8v gti and she's always started first time straight away when turning the key.

Yesterday morning, after not having driven it for approx a week started first time, short journey and back home. Tried to start it again last night and nothing, the engine turns over ok, starter motor is fine but it just doesn't fire up.

about an hour before this there was a very heavy downpour of rain which may or may not be affecting things... i tried wd40 under the distributor cap and gave it a good clean but still the same.

Tried her again this morning, still sight drizzle in the air and it's still the same... any thoughts on what the check 1st??

Thanks in advance.

Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: SI_GTI on 14 August 2006, 10:35
you will probably benefit from buying a new distributor
Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: rubjonny on 14 August 2006, 10:58
1st thing, turn the key to position 1 and check the pump primes for a few seconds & stops.  If it continuously runs then your ECU is shafted,m which is usually caused by a dodgy/loose gearbox earth.

Next I'd check the wiring to the blue temp sender in the plastic flange on the front of the block, if that checks out get a new blue sender from VW.  This will cost you about £13, part number is 025 906 041 A.  The dealer may try to tell you its for catalyst equipped cars only, ignore him and buy it anyway ;)
Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: 92Mk2Gti on 14 August 2006, 11:17
Thanks
I'll start checking these things tonight, i want to go home now and do it but i have to work   :cry: :cry:

I let you know how i get on
Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: rubjonny on 14 August 2006, 11:21
whereabouts are you?
Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: 92Mk2Gti on 14 August 2006, 11:31
essex here
Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: rubjonny on 14 August 2006, 11:37
ah bit far then!  Oh well.  Let me know if you need anything I have a large pile of spares you can try out if need be.
Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: 92Mk2Gti on 14 August 2006, 11:48
sweet, thanks mate, will keep it in mind

fingers crossed i won't need them though!!
Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: 92Mk2Gti on 14 August 2006, 21:33
Update:

Called for 'home assistance' as it wasn't sparking. He put the problem down to a faulty immobiliser but more investigation is required to confirm which will start to cost.

I also noticed the dashboard lights aren't coming on when the ignition is on. Normally there would be something like the oil light flashing, battery lights (both red). All other electrics work stereo, headlights, fan central locking etc

The guy connected wires from the battery straight to the coil and the dashboard lights came on. Still wouldn't fire up... possible due to being flooded?

Would it be a good idea for me to disconnect the immobiliser and see if this fixes the problem? If so anyone know how to do that?
Could it be a relay? (The fuse for the immobilizer must be ok because it still 'seems' to work normally when armed/disarmed - indicators flashing, and it beeps correctly)

Any help would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: 92Mk2Gti on 15 August 2006, 10:44
just to add I couldn't hear the fuel pump priming but i've never heard it before so maybe i have a quiet one?

I keep thinking back to the rain that came down just before she stopped working, could this have killed the ecu?
My car has had a chip fitted in the last 2 yrs so that unit must have been opened at some point in order to fit it... could it be that it wasn't sealed properly after and water has got in?
Could a dead ecu cause the problems I'm having?
Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: rubjonny on 15 August 2006, 12:28
I think its your imobiliser, especially as hot-wiring the coil switched your lights on...  Actually it might be an ignition switch problem thinking about it!

You should hear the pump as they arn't quiet, you probably just havn't noticed it before as you've just started the car rather than sitting with the ignition on.

A blown ECU would cause the pump to run continuously, and flood the engine!
Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: 92Mk2Gti on 15 August 2006, 12:53
OK thanks loads for your thoughts.    :smiley:

Any idea how i can test to see whether it's the immobiliser or ignition switch?

i can try replacing the ignition switch i guess but the immob is a problem, would i need to take her into a garage or is it something i could do?


Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: rubjonny on 15 August 2006, 14:43
I'd do the switch first, not too hard.  The way I do it is to unbolt everything, including the bolt holding the column to the UJ at the bottom and remove the whole thing.  Saves messing about with the steering column adaptor which can be a sod to remove!
Once its off you can just about get to the screw holding the switch on, the column gets in the way a bit but with a small screwdriver it's doable.

Removing the immobiliser depends how hot you are with electrics, I removed 2 immobilisers and an alarm from mine after I got it  :grin:
Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: 92Mk2Gti on 16 August 2006, 10:41
UPDATE #2:

Not had a chance to try anything but was out tinkering again last night and noticed the indicators and electric wndows don't work. all other electrics are fine.

Does this point more to:
a) immobiliser
b) ignition switch
c) could still be either or
Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: rubjonny on 16 August 2006, 10:51
I'd lean towards ignition switch, I doubt they would immobilise the electric windows :grin:

Course it depends exactly how the leccy windows are wired up ;)  But I'd defo start with the ignition switch, as its a nice straight swap rather than trying to splice wires together!

Are you ok with swapping the switch?
Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: 92Mk2Gti on 16 August 2006, 11:04
Are you ok with swapping the switch?

Nope but I'll give it a go at the weekend!
If anyone has a link to guide on it anywhere it would be cool, I have a haynes and will check that so guess it might help me a bit. 
Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: Judderi on 16 August 2006, 11:12
When my ignition power burnt out thats what stopped working on my car too.
Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: rubjonny on 16 August 2006, 11:14
Ok easiest way:
Centre steering wheel, loosen 24mm bolt but leave it threaded, yank it loose then remove bolt & wheel
Remove lower ign shroud - 2 screws
Unplug all stalk electrical connections, and the ignition stalk plug
Remove hex bolt securing metal ign housing to the column bracket
Remove dash under tray - several screws
Remove nut & bolt at the bottom holding the column to the universal joint
Pull column/ign housing/stalks etc out as a complete unit

Now flip it over and you should be able to see the back of the ignition switch, along with the screw securing it to the housing.  Using a small screwdriver remove the screw and swap the switch over.  Its fiddly but doable!

Don't worry about removing the column, it seems very scary but it will only fit back on one way due to a notch cut out of it for the UJ nut & bolt to pass through.
The only thing to worry about is getting the wheel on straight, which is why I suggest you centre the wheel at the beginning before you remove it ;)
Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: 92Mk2Gti on 16 August 2006, 12:04
thanks rubjonny, that's amazing, really appreciate your guide    :laugh: :laugh:

Mk2GTI2.016v is this what you did to fix your problem?
Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: Judderi on 16 August 2006, 12:32
No i had to get a sparky to re wire it as it had totally burn out taking other wires with it. It all came down to the stupid supressor for the headlights shorting out.
Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: rubjonny on 16 August 2006, 12:35
Yup if you can believe it, VW have a direct 12v feed from the battery to the light switch, unfused!
Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: 92Mk2Gti on 16 August 2006, 12:44
hopefully that's not the same as what's happened to mine!!   :undecided: :undecided:

just got a price on an ignition switch of £16 which isn't too bad
Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: rubjonny on 16 August 2006, 13:10
hope not!  Check out the wiring under the dash once you get the under tray off.  Also I'd unplug the suppressor Ben is talking about as a precaution, more commonly called the 'dim-dip resistor'.

You'll find it riveted to the front subframe near the driver side headlight.  Its about the size of a pack of Polos with a yellow iwre at either end.  Simply follow these wires and disconnect the white plug you find :)

Its designed to switch on your dipped beam dimly with the sidelights, but it isn't a legal requirement in the UK.
Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: Mr Blue on 16 August 2006, 16:23
have you checked your ignition moduel?

i had this exaclt problem a few months back.

easy thing to change and cheap.

ive got a few lying about if your in need :smiley:
Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: 92Mk2Gti on 16 August 2006, 16:32
thanks for the further thoughts...

I haven't checked the ignition module but thats becuase i don't know what one is??  :laugh:

what/where is it?

EDIT:

Is it this on top of the ecu?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GOLF-GTI-8V-MK2-DIGIFANT-ECU-IGNITION-MODULE-1991-2-PB_W0QQitemZ180017841813QQihZ008QQcategoryZ9889QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: rubjonny on 16 August 2006, 19:20
Thats an ignition module, AKA TCH unit.  Different thing entirely to the main ECU, which is fine if the fuel pump only primes for 5 seconds
Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: 92Mk2Gti on 17 August 2006, 19:12
tried a new ignition module today and it didn't help.

took the trim under the steering wheel off and the trim itself was damp on the foam backing on the right edge of it- water behind the fuse board maybe from the bonnet release cable rubber seal which seems a bit perished. there wasn't a lot of water and i felt around and nothing else felt wet.

any ideas on what could/would have been knackered by this?
Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: rubjonny on 17 August 2006, 22:33
It wouldnt help thats for sure!  Remove all the relays and check for rust damage, and have a look for moisture round the back.

Get under the bonnet and clear out the drain holes either end, and smear a ton of grease round the bonnet release grommet, this should seal up any minor leaks.
Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: 92Mk2Gti on 18 August 2006, 13:52
cool, the relays and fuses look fine, as does the fuse board itself and i can't seem to find any more moisture around. I have cleaned out the drain holes and will get my grease out tomorrow am.

Going to continue to replace the ignition switch tomorrow and see if that's the cause of my problems.

I'll post how I get on, thanks again for you help rub
Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: 92Mk2Gti on 18 August 2006, 17:27
not sure if anyone will be able to help me but does this look like where the immobiliser is wired into the ignition?
you can see the steering column and the wires coming from the ignition and there's a bunch of fused connectors in there which look to me to be where the imob is wired in, anyone know?


(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/benstevens/06-08-17_18-39.jpg)


also there is a small new looking electronic box about 5cmx2cm above where the fuse board is behind the trim, would this be the immoboliser brain? sorry i should have taken a photo
Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: rubjonny on 18 August 2006, 18:19
Yeah sounds like it to me, have you checked those 3 fuses are ok?
Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: 92Mk2Gti on 19 August 2006, 17:40
yeah checked those fuses today and  they're good.

tested with a new ignition switch today but still the same so pretty sure immobiliser is the problem.
Decided an electronics specialist is the best/quickest way to go. hot-wired it and drove to a alarm/audio specialist who will be sorting it on tuesday. hopefully all will go to plan.

Thanks loads for you help

i'll let you know the verdict/damage
Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: 92Mk2Gti on 22 August 2006, 14:17
UPDATE:

Just to let you know the immobiliser was indeed faulty. Had it removed and a new one fitted today for the tidy sum of £150    :angry:

At least she's working now!!  :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Car won't start
Post by: rubjonny on 22 August 2006, 14:40
cool :)