GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: andyxpress on 11 December 2003, 09:16
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Hi
Got a major problem with my mk2 GTI 16v 1990, its managed to stick itself in third gear, oops.
After speaking to a few people, general opinion is the gearbox is shagged, but
(they say) that you can push it out of third with some brute force aimed at the gearbox rod?? I tried... and failed.
Has anyone heard of this problem before??
Also, seems as though its all looking pretty terminal and im gonna need a new one, is the 16v box specific to that car or will any 1800 golf gearbox do the job??
Thanks for the help
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in the not so trusty but giving you some idea haynes book it says it could be a 085 or an 020 gearbox not sure which one for valver.
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Aha........this is oh so familiar.........exactly what happened to MK1_BOY's gearbox and no amount of brute force was going to shift it out of third and now that we have stripped the box down I can see why.
Out of curiosity.........were you giving the car some welly at the time that it happened?
It is fixable, bit it does mean removing your gearbox and splitting the casings. There are 3 catches/keys that help to centre the hub when it moves between 3rd and 4th. When you went into third the catches rode out of the slot into the 4th gear direction, hence preventing the hub from returning back to the neutral position. I'll dig you out a pic in a minute to show you what I mean.........but what ever you do, don't try and force it any more, it isn't going to work and you'll end up damaging something else.
What we don't really understand is why it happened. Marcus (MK1_BOY) was racing me in my Audi at the time so he was giving his Golf some serious welly when it happened. We are going to replace the catches as they are a little worn and we're going to replace the 4th gear synchro ring as the teeth are a little worn, however the synchro itself is fine. I've bought a load of tools for doing the job, including some special bearing and gear pullers, some have already arrived and the rest are due to arrive any time. Marcus is busy ordering the parts from a mate who works for VW, so we should be able to fix it fairly cheaply.
I managed to strip an old one of mine down without the special pullers, but it was a bit 'heath robinson' and not ideal, we want to do his one properly as its a modded gearbox and therefore one of a kind.
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Oh and you don't want to use a box from an 8v 1800........the ratio's are different.
Let me know if you want a pic to see what has happened, I have the parts on my workbench so I can easily take a pic to show you.......
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16v is a 020Y box if im not mistaken
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Thanks for help
My mechanic friend was driving the car at the time, i dont think he was giving it any welly.
Any piccys you have would be a great help.
cheers
Andy
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I'll see what I can do, DHL have just delivered the rest of my tooling that I needed so I'm off out to dismantle the mainshaft of Marcus's gearbox. I'll take some pics to illustrate what I mean whilst I'm out there.........try and post them later on this afternoon/evening.
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Ok, have a look at this pic:-
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/richandhazel1/gti/profix1/gearbox/files/haynes/fig6_44.JPG)
If the same thing has happened, and I'm certain it will be the same, the sleeve, item 19, has moved onto item 24......you've engaged 3rd gear. Unfortunately, what's happened is that items 21 have ridden out of their slots in the hub (item 20) and are now preventing the sleeve from returning to the neutral position.
In photographic form, sad I know......but I am fixing Marcus's at the mo and I know he wants to see some pics too, so its rather convenient:-
This is neutral between 3rd and 4th:-
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/richandhazel1/golfgti/genpics/mainshaft/2.jpg)
Unfortunately, I have gone the wrong way with this, duh, but it works all the same........this is 4th engaged:-
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/richandhazel1/golfgti/genpics/mainshaft/3.jpg)
and in both of these you can see the key seated properly:-
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/richandhazel1/golfgti/genpics/mainshaft/4.jpg)
This is what has happened, the key, well all 3 of them, have ridden out of the slot:-
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/richandhazel1/golfgti/genpics/mainshaft/5.jpg)
Therefore preventing the sleeve returning to neutral
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/richandhazel1/golfgti/genpics/mainshaft/6.jpg)
Hope that helps.........
And.........for your benefit Marcus, thanks to those tools arriving today, I have competely dismantled your mainshaft and am now awaiting the parts from you:-
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/richandhazel1/golfgti/genpics/mainshaft/8.jpg)
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/richandhazel1/golfgti/genpics/mainshaft/9.jpg)
Oh and we were right, your 4th gear synchro ring is definately f@cked, check out the metal debris that the red lines are pointing too........good job I've got a good spare ;):-
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/richandhazel1/golfgti/genpics/mainshaft/7.jpg)
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Bloody hell mate, you're sh!t hot aren't you? i think its about time we became friends so you can rebuild my gearbox when it goes :-*
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LOL ;D ;D I love it.........I know these cars well, gearbox was the last big mystery to learn.........Congrats again to you guys ;D
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Re: Oh and you don't want to use a box from an 8v 1800........the ratio's are different.
Ive been offered a 8v gearbox for 60 notes, this seems to me like a nice easy get out to me. Bin the knackered one and fit the 8v, job done.
Are all the 8 & 16v gear ratios different or is it just the 5th gear??
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Don't bin your old box.........I'll have it if you're just going to chuck it.........better still, I should be able to fix it.
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Your welcome to it sir (assuming the breakers don't want it as a exchange unit).
Ill keep you posted
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Cheers........I'll fix it and offer it at repair cost to the forum members. Of course you would be top of the list, should you want it back when fixed.
I just want the experience, worked with a few 8V boxes, haven't done a 16V box yet so although not entirely different at least I'll have had the experience.
Plus I need to justify buying all these tools I've just bought for doing them ;D
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Where do you find the time to do all this???
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I work a 4 on, 4 off shift pattern.......can get a lot done in the 4 off, if I'm not sat at my PC that is........
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Hows abouts da pub?
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Yep, spend too much time there too ;D Yippee its Friday night ;D ;D
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Rich, why did the 3rd/4th hub overshoot. Look at the selectors for wear and end float on the shaft.
Just a thought, Steve.
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Cheers Steve,
The 4th gear synchro ring is damaged. I thought that might be why it had happened. I've checked the selector forks, they're OK.......haven't checked the end float, I'll check that.
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Oh praise the Richard the great one..... Can we make him a God instead of a Moderator??? Rich, cheers for all the effort you've put into my car, really appreciate it mate.... Just waiting on thoes parts from Nat although I'm starting to think It might be quicker to go to VW direct, more expesive but quicker... Anyhoo, might pop over Sunday if your free...