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General => Car audio => Topic started by: JezGTI on 03 December 2003, 15:30
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OK, I have a 1991 8V with 4 speakers (all standard I think) and a basic tape / radio player head unit. I am interested in improving the sound (which at the moment is crap) but I haven't done anything like this before. Any recommendations for a beginner??
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how much do you want to spend - if we start there we can recommend a few set ups for you - you will have loads of differing opinions, becuase every one has there own prefernces, best to try a few in a sound shop, but price first!!
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Haven't thought too much about the budget, just want to get a nice bass sound (not crazy though) without drowning out midrange and trebble. As I say I've not done anything like this before so I don't have much idea of the costs, what sort prices are we talking about?
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How long is a piece of string? A couple of hundred for a whole new set up, to a thousand pound for one amp!! Its a huge market out there. Do you have any preference? Have a trawl through "Max Power" (sorry) I remember they used to do ICE deals on total set ups many years ago, they probably still do them now
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good site for parts and also a load of info+tech articles:
www.caraudiodirect.com
jv
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good site for parts and also a load of info+tech articles:
www.caraudiodirect.com
jv
you are a walking e-mail directory, aren't you!!
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http://www.cel-direct.com/ (http://www.cel-direct.com/)
are good. good selection with 6 months interest free on stuff ?350+
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i was suprised how much a sub improves the sound in ya car. when i first started the install the sound was sh!t. Very sh!t!
all i did was stick sum 6 by 9s in the back parcel shelf. and a powerd sub in the rear.
the sound is 100% better. only prob is when playing hectic music like drum and bass. thats when i could do with another amp to power the front or rear speakers.
but working at halfords i managed to get the speakers and sub for a mere ?55. ;) wink wink and all that sh!t. retail about ?350.
the head unit is a pioneer 5500 which i purchased legit off www.caraudiosecurity.com for ?170 or sumthin 8)
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what do you reckon to that Pioneer 5500 mate? I was thinking of getting that one. How quickly does it move between folders on mp3 discs? Some I have tried are so slow
jv
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its great
lots of eq curves and stuff to play with.
the mp3 folders are just like if u were looking up messages on ya phone or sumthin. basicly instant. depending on how big the folder is.
its cheaper than the one with the fancy display screen. but why do u need that unless u r planning on putting it in a nova.
its well worth the money in my opinion.
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To begin, is it possible to just install a sub in the boot (or anywhere more discrete?) and hold onto the standard speakers. If so how is this done, do I have to start taking the dash apart or anything to get the feed for it?? As I said I really am new to this!
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yes thats perfectly fine.
u will need a new head unit to run a sub. as u need the line out puts which the standard one doesnt have. (unless your head unit is newer and does have these)
you will also need an amp unless u get a powerd sub which has one with it like Vibe.
you need to get a power cable from the battery to the amp which will plug through any grommet and into the car. you will also need audio cable and a blue control lead from your head unit to the amp.
these can be ran under the carpet along with the other audio cables down the left of the car which is simple enough.
you can buy a amp wiring kit at places like halfords for about ?30
as for the feeding of the wire i didnt take any of the dash apart. i got a mate to feed it along the inside of the dash as i pulled it through from the other end near the door. the only bits of dash u may need to take off are the bits to allow you to pull up the carpet.
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u may also want to make a false floor in your boot as the sub doesnt sit very well on the spare wheel!
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amp wiring...
(+) - fused wire from the battery to the amp. The thicker the better.
(-) - comes from the car bodywork (earth). To do this scratch off a small part to reveal the metal on the chassis inside the boot. Now bolt the Negative (-) wire to this.
Remote Wire - Connect this thin wire behind the headunit to the blue/white remote wire, then to the amp.
Audio Signal (phono leads) - These connect behind the headunit and then to the amp. Connect these according to the colours. REMEMBER... Some phono leads have a built in remote wire for an easy installation!
Make sure you connect the Negative wire to the amp last. This is to prevent a spark and is more safe. Trust me i do this stuff everyday ;)
Hope that is clear
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Jez,
You can get a sub in your car with your standard head unit - you can either use an amp that uses speaker inputs (rather than rca signal cables), (you can take feeds from your rear speakers) or you can use speaker to RCA connectors that, again, tap into your speaker feeds and leave you with connectors that will plug straight into an amp.
However, both of these methods will give you a diminshed quality result compared to proper high volt line-outs. It also leaves you with a slight switching issue, as your current head unit won't have the ability to switch the amp on via a remote lead. However, this is not insurmountable.
I would also consider fitting some caps to your standard speakers if you're intending on keeping them for a while, as these will filter out the very lowest of lows, make them more efficient, and allow you to drive them harder before the inevitable distortion sets in!
Finally,
amp wiring...
Make sure you connect the Negative wire to the amp last. This is to prevent a spark and is more safe. Trust me i do this stuff everyday ;)
It really doesn't matter which order you connect them up. You will only get a psark if the power cable is connected to the battery, and you definitely should not be connecting it if your power cable is energised.
The last thing you should be doing (after your amp is all connected up) is reconnecting the battery and installing the in-line fuse to your amps' power cable.
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Jez,
Just to take a different line on this.
From your post I'm not sure if you want to go down the whole AMP/sub way.
It is possible to get a "reasonable" sound without an amp or sub.
I have chosen this way as my 8v is 100% original and I don't want to mess about with it.
If you chose not to run an amp then you need to spend a bit more on your head unit, making sure you get the highest power one you can, by doing this you (should) also get 2 sets of "line out's" which you will need if you want to add an amp in the future.
A high power head unit will run the front (both tweeters & door speakers) & the back speakers OK. The original speakers are very poor so you would need to replace these, many manufacturers offer replacements.
If you don't mind installing an amp then you have an option of running a sub in the back and powering the front speakers either from the head unit or the amp (depending on how many channels the amp has).
To run an amp you will not need to take the dash out, you just need to run a heavy duty power cable direct from the battery to the amp & earth the amp as well. The "line out's" from your head unit also need to go to the amp (via heavy duty RCA phono leads) and the leads Blue Mk2 mention. The sub/speakers will then be connected to the amp.
Hope this all makes sense.
R
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Thanks guys, it's starting to become clearer now, just a few questions:
- How can I tell if my head unit has the necessary outputs (its not the original one), changed the dash surround recently and it looked like a rats nest behind there?
- I use my boot quite a lot, for gym stuff, baby stuff etc. Is there a fairly discrete sub on the market, I have an Audi Allroad with a sub somewhere in the boot but damned if I can find it, is there a sub that can fit in the side of the boot space?
- R1D3R you mentioned a combined sub/amp, would you recommend this over a seperate system?
- Re: taking a wire from the +ive on battery do I need to drill and fit a new grommet or are is there already some available?
- How do I fit caps to the existing speakers and what spec should they be.
- What rating should the inline fuse be?
Sorry for all the questions, but want to get it right.
By the way, when I turn up the volume at the moment I get vibration noises from some of the speakers (doesn't sound like their blown though). Is it just a case of fitting some sort of rubber seal or similar to stop this?
Cheers in advance.
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can you get us the model number of the head unit? Normally printed on the front of it somewhere......
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Jez,
Have you seen the back of a TV,Video,Sterio? They have round shaped red and white sockets on them. This is what you look for behind you sterio. :)
you can get discreet sub boxes from http://www.autoacoustics.co.uk/ (http://www.autoacoustics.co.uk/).
You can get amp wiring kits from halfords which have an in-line fuse in them so there is nothing to worry about.
There is a grommet on the right side of the bulkhead, feed the wire through this.
It will end up inside the car under the carpet near the heater motor.
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Where abouts in the country are you Jez?
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The head unit is a VDO 721X, found this link if it helps..
http://www2.vdo.com/vdo/end_consumer/ec_product&fza=&ID=248.aspx
I didn't see the round audio scokets you mentioned Blue, just rectangular ones.
I'm in Manchester S11EPS.
Cheers
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This doesn't have the pre amps you need to run an amp.
Unless you go with S11EPS's suggestion of converting the speaker signals into RCA connectors. I have no experience of how well this works but it is certainly a workaround rather than an ideal. You will also have to run the amp line feed (this tells the amp to turn on and off) from outside of your head unit which means that your amp will stay on when your stereo might be off etc. This can be solved but not without a hassle.
If your going to go through the trouble of buying installing an amp and upgrading your speakers I would certainly consider upgrading your head unit as a priority number 1.
Head units are so cheap and feature rich these days so for not much money (?150) you get a good quality high power unit with 4 x line outs and all the future proofing you need.
R
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I would go with reserves, and get a new head unit buddy, it really will be much less hassle.
Coming up to (and just after) Christmas you'll get a cracking deal, and ?200-?250 will get you a feature packed head unit with high-power amplifier on board (for your front and rear speakers) the proper high-voltage RCA pre-outs you need for connecting to an amplifier, as well as on board filters, which will do away with the need for fitting caps to your speakers to make them more efficient.
From here I would recommend replacing standard speakers with some quality aftermarket ones, and from there you can decide if you want to add small sub/amp combo to give the sound a little more depth.
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Fair enough, thanks. Considering what you know about my requirement would you recommend any particular head unit, speakers and sub woofer?
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I go for Kenwood, and have done for 10 years or more, but othes will equally swear by Pioneer, Sony, etc - its down to what gadgets, looks etc you like
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can't beat alpine.........
ignore adam he's old he listens to rubbish stuff........
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I would have to go with the alpine stuff tho, swear by it!
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Heard mixed opinions on just changing the front door and rear speakers for new ones of the same size. Reserves, you did this (didn't you?), what do you think? Anyone else tried this?
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Hi Jez,
It's funny to read through this thread! At the start of the thread I was saying that i'm just going to upgrade the speakers and didn't want an amp.
In the end I have ended up buying :
Phoenix Gold 4 ch amp
JL Component speakers for door/dash
Diamond M6 sub
Auto Acoustics Stealthbox
I can't tell you how it all sounds as I'm still installing it!
I think that replacing the front door speakers with the same size is fine (5.25"/13cm). There are plently of good makes out there that sell these size. If you are going to get an amp then put some components in the door/dash (it's argued that good components really need an amp to work well.)
One thing I realised is that if you are bothering to install an amp & a sub in the boot then you may as well buy a 4ch amp and run the front's off 2 channels and then the sub off the other two.
The general feeling now days is that the sound stage sound be from the front, so front speakers and a sub are the most important (unless you carry passengers all the time). I am not going to have any rear speakers.
Let me know if this is what you meant.
I got so much help from www.talkaudio.co.uk (http://www.talkaudio.co.uk) the guys on there are really serious about their car audio but also very very friendly and helpful.
R
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Oh, and by the way, the vibration noise more likely than not is the door panels.. don't get me started..
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I think you're right about the door panels paladin, just secured the speaker covers with draught excluder(!) and get no rattles now. Cheers for the info reserves, let me know how you get (got) on with your install, sounds interesting, may look a similar setup.
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Car audio direct do custom sub boxes for the MK2 golf. Its an alternative to the false floor and still allows you to get to your spare! They fit nicely into the right hand side of your boot. I have one with a 12" magnat XTC1200 in it.