GolfGTIforum.co.uk
General => General discussion => Topic started by: V_Arse6 on 27 April 2006, 16:47
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Hey, first post, so apologies if this is in the wrong section....
Anyway, I currently have a 1300 escort (J plate, horrid HCS engine :sick:)... And I'm just so depressed that I might kill myself if I don't get a proper car soon. I've looked at my budget and the options, and I'm 99% sure I'll go for a Mk3 GTi ('95 ish or so)..... So the only remaining question is whether I get an 8v or 16v.
On paper it's obvious: 115 Vs 150Bhp, more torque...
But then there's the insurance, the slight fuel economy difference, and the abundance of the 8 valvers compared to the 16s... Plus the fact that the 16V is so much more sought after, which artificially inflates the price (ok, not by THAT much, but still). :undecided:
It all makes me think that I'd be more likely to get a good condition example of an 8v than a 16v one (more to choose from), plus it would cost less (obviously a 16v will cost more, but the number of 8v ones around should mean getting a really good deal is much easier), and it seems more of the 16V ones are modified (not that I have anything against modded cars, but I would rather do it myself!).
PLUS, anything (including something powered by rubber bands) will seem like a rocketship after driving the 'scort.
I've basically decided that it'll come down to one thing: How the 8v measures up against my old 1.8Ghia Si Orion (16V). it was a J plate, with 130Bhp (@4750 or so), and ~120 lbft torque at 4500RPM. It got t-boned to death unfortunately, which is why I've ended up with the crappy 1300, since it was cheap and available at the time. If it's more-or-less the same or a bit quicker, then I'll be happy with it. If it's not as quick, then I'll say sod it and get a 16V. :evil:
Now, 130 Vs 115 HP, and 120 Vs 122 Torque... Seems close, but I suspect (having driven the orion) that the 2L VW engine has a much flatter torque/power curve, so will actually be noticeably quicker. you could really notice the orion pick up suddenly after 4000RPM, and there wasn't THAT much low-end power really. So I'm fairly sure the 8v will be ok for me for now.
I've spent much of the day looking for torque/power graphs of the two so I can compare, but haven't had much luck, so if anyone has a link to some I'd be grateful! I don't so much need the graph for the orion, since I had one and know that it would definitely not be that flat. (most of the 1800 Ghia Orions were 105Bhp - it was just a few for a couple of years - J and K plate IIRC - that were tuned to 130)...
Anyway, any thoughts?
(That turned out a little longer than I was expecting, so thanks for reading :smiley:)
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Hello and welcome to the forum
I would go for the 16 valve, hold out until you see one. Although there is not much difference in it betweenthe orion and the 8 valve the golf is a heav car and seems sluggish to me( my dad has one).
So get a 16valve and good luck with your searching! :smiley:
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Welcome to the forum, I personally don't know the difference, so this is just a welcome post :P
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Yeah I want to get a 16v really... but I had to drive some 300 odd miles in a 1.6 'Sport' Focus hire car (not bad at all - 115HP, 7K on the clock) the other day, and after that getting back in the 1300 sucked huge donkey balls. Hairy ones. :cry: So I've now realised I've been deluding myself with thinking the escort was acceptable, and desperately need a replacement before I manage to brainwash myself again :laugh:
Decided on a golf because I have 2 mates with VR6s and one with a GTi (16v)... And they seem like a good buy (plus the mate with the Gti has some springs that he's not using.... :evil:)
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'colour concept' mk3's are nice. :wink:
Get a 16v if you can. big diffrence between them :smiley:
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my last 2 cars before my 8v were 1.6 16valve cars with @115hp and about the same weight as the mk3. overall there was no performance difference between the 3 but the power of the 8v is so much more useable on a day to day basis. i doubt you'd notice the extra 15hp your si had over a mk3 8v as you could only use it at 4k revs +. ÂÂÂ
8v or 16v golf? mpg and insurance differences are neglegble but the extra 35hp and extra 8valves obviously makes a difference if you rag it.
I went through the same thought process as you and decided to buy my 8v cos it was the right car (95, FVWSH,59000 miles12mnth T&T for £2600) and every 16v i'd seen was mega high miles or chaved up. Sometimes i wish i had that top end grunt but 99% of the time i'm well happy.
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I went through the same thought process as you and decided to buy my 8v cos it was the right car (95, FVWSH,59000 miles12mnth T&T for £2600) and every 16v i'd seen was mega high miles or chaved up. Sometimes i wish i had that top end grunt but 99% of the time i'm well happy.
I suspect I'll be 200% happy for a few months at least, after driving this Escort.... I think I'll just look at whatever I can find in my price bracket (not 100% fixed, but I'm thinking £1500-£2500.... I've just bought a house, so a little extra loan will be just another drop in the debt pond! :laugh:) and buy what I feel is a good deal - I won't let myself think "great car, but it's only an 8v..".
OR I could go nuts and buy a VR6. But that's just silly. and £200-£400 more to insure. :undecided:
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deffinatley get the 16v, the insurance isnt that much more different, but the performance is, iv just got one and its well worth holding out for a month or more to find a decent one, and be prepared t travel, i went 400mile round trip for mine
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get a mk2 gti instead bud
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i don't think he's got the budget for the constant repairs :laugh:
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well i hope he has the money for a dry dock for the mk3 then.
MK2 16v end of conversation.
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ive had 2 8vs they are a good car and most importantly they are a vw but i was dissapointed with the performance so i got myself a 16v which is much better if you like a blast sometimes , my dad has my last 8v and he loves it, but if you can drive both and see for yourself ,but you must use all the revs on the 16v or you wont feel much differance.
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go for the 16v over the 8v if it,s a mk3 golf why are,nt you considering a mk2 fella is it just you prefer the mk3?
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i don't think he's got the budget for the constant repairs :laugh:
My Mk3 16v needed lots of work.
I bought it for top dollar, thinking that it was a good specimen. The dealer was full of sh1t.
Then within weeks it needed a new Catalytic converter, and the standard one didn't fit for some reason, so that was a few hundred on a custom made job. Then the stereo stopped working, another £150 on a new one, and even then the wiring needed sorting out cos somebody had bodged it.
One electric window constantly wound itself down, so after attempts to get it fixed, I just had it disconnected.
Then needed a new alarm remote, that was £80.
Then it broke down as I was leaving work, wouldn't restart. Got towed home. Took it to the garage the next day, they replaced the distributor, another load of cash.
Lots of other niggly bits. Kept on stalling at traffic lights, even with a warm engine, garage couldn't work out why.
Then I got hit in the side by some tw@t who didn't stop to exchange details.
Then realised the clutch and gearbox were going. So sold it.
It cost me over a grand in 9months.
That said, it was a fun car to drive, nice and comfortable, great on the motorway (got upto about 45mpg at times). But I replaced it with a Mk2 16v, which was even more fun. Wish I'd spend the money on a decent Mk2 in the first place.
I'd say, if you can find a good condition 16v and you want the power, go for it, but be wary that the 16v engine seems to have more potential to go wrong.
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Sounds like my scirocco mate, nothing but heartbreak and pain! :angry: :cry:
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I've had 4 (technically 5) 8v Mk3's and they are good all rounders. Not as fast as the 16v but for 99% of the time they are fine. Very easy and cheap to maintain which is what I was looking for. Got 43 mpg the other day driving in traffic at 50, 40 mpg this morning on a 55 mile motorway commute. Horses for courses, want to waste other drivers away from the lights get the 16v, otherwise the 8v is more than adequate.
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why dont you just test drive a few of each? then decide yourself
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Test driving both seems like a good idea but unless the seller lets you thrash the 16v you can't really compare the two... I have had 3 Mk3 8v's and they are great cars but slow and heavy. I would get a Mk3 16v if it were me - thats if I was limited to a Mk3... if not then there is no comparison to the Mk2 16v - my favourite car of all time :smiley: thats a quite a compliment coming from someone who drives a Mk5 GTI
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I still reckon that for the money you are looking at you would be better off getting a nicely done MK2.....but then again, I am a bit biased :tongue:
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Personally, I'd give the Mk3 a miss... sorry but this is the Golf that started to lose its way, the Mk2 still had that German simplicity, high standard of build quality that can be found Porsche's to this day, I think that you have to own a Mk1/2 to know what I'm on about! for me the Mk3 doesn't seem to have that, Ive also seen examples that have gone rotten in a way that the Mk2s never did, unless they were totally abused, or badly repaired from accident damage... so I'm afraid it would have to be a 16v Mk2, if is was going out to look for one!... much cooler car, just my opinion, :lipsrsealed:
Tom
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yea 16 valve mark 2's all the way woo hoo! :laugh:
sorry i am sitting on the fence here!.........well i was!
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Definately a MK2 is the way to go. Give me an 8v Mk2 GTi over a Mk3 anyday
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Hi Guys
Ok my first car was a Mk2 GTI 8v, loved it to bits, sold it then wanted another Golf so went out and brought a Mk3 GTI 16v, as I thought yeah its a Golf it will be ok, Was disappointed to say the least, Mk3's are too heavy if you ask me. Yes the 16v was quick but it was juicy too, plus i had loads of eletrical problems with mine, the engine ran sweet when it would start :grin:. If you have your heart set on a Mk3 buy a 16v, I used to fly past my mates 8v. Dont think the 8v is even a sub 10 second car to 60 is it?
I sold the Mk3 after about a month of owning it and brought another mk2 GTI 8v, The mk2 8v was far more fun to drive than the mk3 16v. And on collecting the Mk2 I drove up in the mk3 and then drove the mk2 home while a mate drove home the mk3, it was a mini race all the way home, the only time the mk3 had the advantage over the mk2 8v was 80MPH+.
My Opinion of the Mks
Mk1 - The start of something Great
Mk2 - The Best a Man can Get!!! (Sorry, Han, Dinx, Woman Too :wink:)
mk3 - Alll Started to go wrong here...
mk4 - Should have never been released. An insult to the GTI name. Slow, Heavy, Ya gran would own one..
Mk5 - The GTI name getting back on track, Just a shame there so expensive!
Buy a Mk2 GTI 8v or 16V... You will not be disappointed with either of those choices....
Cheers
Knobby.
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Yeah mk2 all the way mate ive had a go of a mk3 their nowhere near the same quality and a mk2 looks cool slammed on the floor
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You could always look elsewhere....
What about the Mk3 Astra SRi/SXi? What about a Pug 306 XSi? Both are better handling than the Golf mk3 (Probably mk2 also), maybe not as reliable (306) but a much newer car for the money.
I agree with some of the comments above about the Golfs development, the Mk2 looks Ok but sells for more money than its worth IMO. The Mk3 did get lardy compared to the Mk2 and the Mk4 looks terrible and is very heavy. The Mk5, now that is a good looking and great performing car. I think VW did start to lose their way with the 3, got worse with the 4 and got their fingers out with the 5 probably after seeing the success of the Leon Cupra/R.
Its an evolutionary path, the owners were growing up (well, some...), families getting bigger, more and more emissions and safety legislation kicking in (which is a good thing) so the cars had to grow to accomodate these things. The new passat is bigger than a VX Omega, jeez, thats a very big car.
What will happen when all the decent Mk2's have run out? It won't be that long, they are getting old/thrashed/crashed and pretty soon will be as rare a sight as a Mk1. My guess is it will go one of 2 ways - The Mk3 will be lauded as the greatest as the Mk2 is now and will sell well or loads will jump ship and buy the Leon Ibiza/Cupra.
Does any of the 3 pages above help you, not in the slightest, it tells you why each one of us has bought the car we have. Its your money, your own individual needs/wants to cover and its your choice. All cars will do roughly the same job, pick the one you like, don't be afraid to look elsewhere and buy one :wink: If you have the money, why not stick with the blue oval and get a 2.0 Focus?? They will leave the Golfs upto and including the Mk4 for dead on handling (in your price bracket), be cheap to insure, garage in every big town, good safety, modern design, decent performance etc etc.
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Don't mean to get b!tchy but got a bit to say about the last post.... :shocked:
I'd be very surprised if a Mk3 Astra sri/sxi would out handle a Mk2 Golf, and I used to own a 306 pug, they are characterless cars. Ford Focus, ummm, yes a very reliable runner for the family but are we buying Mk2 Golfs for there reliablity no i think not, I think if you buy a Mk2 Golf its because you wanna be part of something special, I dont like to use the word Cult but Mk2's have a great following, with a superb bunch of people ready to help out in the event of a problem. You only have to look at the amount of large events across the country to see how much this following is supported, I guess for the love for a classic well made German car. I'd love to see an Astra Forum, home of the Chav i expect.. Where do all the Astra/Pug owners meet, Max Power events...
As I said I don't mean to get b!tchy but you got my goat! :angry:
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Don't mean to get b!tchy but got a bit to say about the last post....  :shocked:
I'd be very surprised if a Mk3 Astra sri/sxi would out handle a Mk2 Golf, and I used to own a 306 pug, they are characterless cars. Ford Focus, ummm, yes a very reliable runner for the family but are we buying Mk2 Golfs for there reliablity no i think not, I think if you buy a Mk2 Golf its because you wanna be part of something special, I dont like to use the word Cult but Mk2's have a great following, with a superb bunch of people ready to help out in the event of a problem. You only have to look at the amount of large events across the country to see how much this following is supported, I guess for the love for a classic well made German car. I'd love to see an Astra Forum, home of the Chav i expect.. Where do all the Astra/Pug owners meet, Max Power events...
As I said I don't mean to get b!tchy but you got my goat! :angry:
Didn't come over as b!tchy, I think the angry emoticon was over the top though.
The Mk3 Astra will out handle it. The Golf Mk3 (16v) has been independantly tested and out handles the Mk2 (16v), the Mk4 (1.8T) out handles the Mk3 (same test), the Astra is up there with the Focus on handling, tried tested and proven in many magazines to out handle the Mk4, that is a direct read across as being better. The Mk4 Golf being described as stodgy, the leon/toledo would be a better bet for handling.
The 306, characterless? Not sure I agree, but they are just opinions after all, but definately better handling. I had 2 306's, and XSi and a GTi6 so I too can speak from experience. WhatCar tested the 306 XSi 8v against the Mk3 8v Golf (and the BMW Compact) and the 306 won that. The 306 S16 (12 bhp less than the GTi6) was tested against a Mk3 16v in autocar, very close but the 306 still came out on top.
If it gets your goat then you're getting wound up over nothing really, its a car at the end of the day, its not life and death. I was merely trying to give other options, there are other cars on the road besides the Golf, you don't have to belong to a forum to like a particular make after all. Liking a particular model doesn't "pigeon hole" you as a certain type of person, maybe in the eyes of others it might. The problem is with the person doing the pigeon holing in that case.
It might be interesting to read how other car enthusiasts view Golf GTi owners....
Forgot that one, 318Ti BMW???
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Mk2 Golf's are a way of life! Never just a car.
Enough said!
Knobby....
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Having driven a few other cars, I'd have to say that each I was glad to be back in my VW.
I always preferred driving my Mk2 1.8 GL to my parents Mk3 Astra. and even last week driving that Astra was horrid and was glad to be back in my own Mk4 Polo, which handles and drives so much better.
I also drove a Mondeo (TDi and V6)and a Vectra (TDI), and although the Vauxhaul was better, I still preferred my Mk2.
But everyone has their own opinion.
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just to add my 2pence worth...... once a vee dub fan, always a veedub fan.... IMHO
you can LIKE other cars for sure, ( certain porkies, ferraris etc even bmw m5's :evil: turn my eye all the time) but once you find a brand that your happy with/love then nothing ever really changes your mind :undecided:
everyone has their own opinion i guess, and every car is different....but as for telling someone what they should drive...........well only one person can decide that really. :undecided:
good luck with whatever you choose dude just pick a good 'un :smiley:
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If the guy wants a mk3 golf let the guy buy one IMO, he only wants to know which engines the best and its probably the 16v, im no expert but it has more valves so in my book that makes it better and if the insurance ist much more than why not? also he wouldnt be here on a golfgti site if he wanted
a rubbish another car like some others mentioned...... :smiley: ide always stick with the mk2s personnaly too, the fact that one day a decent one may be hard to come buy simply makes me want them more, but if i was out for a mk3 ide certainly go for a 16v
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The guys asking a question on a Golf site about which car to buy. Personally i'd say a Mk2 but everyone to their own. A mk2's a car that you can play with, work on and enjoy. Probably a Mk3 is more reliable but if you want reliability buy a newer car.
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Well, I've gone over some figures, and a mate of mine wants a new motor, so he'll sell me his one for fairly decent money. It's just had new discs and pads and I've known him for years, so I've followed what few problems he's had with it (errr.. none really), so I know the car's recent history and know it's ok. It's got a passenger-side 'leccy window issue which he's not really bothered to sort out which shouldn't be too much trouble/money to sort out, so I think I'll buy it off him. I was suprised at how much I could insure it for as well!
So it looks like I've found the car. Only thing is, it's NOT a 16V.....
It's a VR6. :evil:
OK, so I went mad. $hit happens :cool:
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Great choice tho...
Now just get yourself a tidy mk2 to drop the VR6 into for higher levels of lunacy...
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Now just get yourself a tidy mk2 to drop the VR6 into for higher levels of lunacy...
LOL. That would be a bit nuts I think. I'll stick some better springs in at some point (I have another buddy with a VR6 who's done his, and the difference is huge!).. But the one I'm getting has had an induction kit fitted, so it makes the right noise already... Those V6's don't half sound gooood... :grin:
Hell, going from the escort to that monster I'll be lucky enough to not kill myself within 5 minutes, without sticking it in a lighter chassis!
I remember seeing a Corrado with a turbo'd VR6 engine mounted in the middle (in some magazine a while back). now that I would like to have a go in....
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The Golf Mk3 (16v) has been independantly tested and out handles the Mk2 (16v), the Mk4 (1.8T) out handles the Mk3 (same test)
I would be very doubtful on any of those tests, the mk3 and 4 are about 500kg+ heavier than the mk2 in stock form and the mk2 sits lower than both from stock aswell. I severly doubt the ability of an astra to outhandle aswell. I have driven most flavours of cars in the time i have been driving and nothing (apart from a clio 182 cup) has been as sure footed as my golf is.
It is all down to the driver skill.
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well i hope he has the money for a dry dock for the mk3 then.
MK2 16v end of conversation.
lol
and surely a mk2 8v cos we all know they have more torque......................................
:afro:
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^^ - damn so thats where i have been going wrong all these years. :rolleyes: :wink: :grin:
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howabout a 24v...
16vs for the high rpm and an initial 8v cam for the torque :laugh: :laugh:
The Golf Mk3 (16v) has been independantly tested and out handles the Mk2 (16v), the Mk4 (1.8T) out handles the Mk3 (same test)
What a load of bullplop...I like the spelling of independently. What was the source of this? Because if its a magazine, their opinion means f*ck all (it was probably Fast Car, and ended with 'Actually, get a wickid Astra GTE, put a bad boy bonnet on it and it iz gonna be well mad, innit'
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howabout a 24v...
Hey, if you read my most recent post you'll see I went with the obvious compromise. couldn't decide on 8V or 16V, so went bang in the middle with 12V..... :laugh:
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good boy. perfect timing now petrol is on the up lol but oh the fun!
and as they say there aint no replacement for displacement!!!
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howabout a 24v...
What was the source of this? Because if its a magazine, their opinion means f*ck all (it was probably Fast Car, and ended with 'Actually, get a wickid Astra GTE, put a bad boy bonnet on it and it iz gonna be well mad, innit'
It was titled Volkswagen Golf GTi clebrating 25 years of a motoring legend, a special within Autocar to be exact.  Tested on the same day, same track, same driver.
Why does their opinion mean as little as you think it does?  What makes you know better than people who can write better than you, have driven a greater variety of cars than you, can drive better than you and spell more betterer than I can?  Because its a Golf so it must be the best...  :laugh:
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Mk2 Golf's are a way of life! Never just a car.
Enough said!
Knobby....
:wink:
Buy a Mk2 16v Dude.
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Definately a MK2 is the way to go. Give me an 8v Mk2 GTi over a Mk3 anyday
I have owned both, I agree.