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Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: Terrible1 on 10 January 2006, 21:27

Title: SORRY
Post by: Terrible1 on 10 January 2006, 21:27
Been a while i know (got involved with an xr2t) anyway looking to do something with the golf now although just gathering ideas at the mo. she is a 1.6 driver

I'm thinking of putting an 1800 head on either off a 1800 driver or maybe a scirocco (did they use same engine) what carb should i use.If the scirocco did use the same engine did that have more of an output. Bigger carb. What problems am i likely to come up against chaging the head. It should be a stright swap shouldn't it i mean the engine i've got is an 1800 just with a 1600 head restricted. What BHP am i getting at the moment as it is standard.

Idealy i'm looking for around 130 brake and wish to achive this by getting an 1800 head rebuild it maybe get it flowed and help it breath more easier then bolt the bugger back on.

Is this realistic.  :huh:

Title: Re: SORRY
Post by: Dizzie on 10 January 2006, 21:38
won't swapping the heads make zero difference. the capacity was all down to the bottom end?

may aswell drop a 16v lump in and get 139bhp straight away. pick up those engines for £150. :D
Title: Re: SORRY
Post by: Terrible1 on 10 January 2006, 21:49
Of course it will make a difference. I don't want to change the engine over as that invloves getting engines out and i haven't the faciltys to do that.

I've been looking on ebay and the Scirroco seems to either have a 1600carb(gt) an 1800card or an 1800 injection (GTI) please bare with me as i am not use to VW's

What differnce is there between the 1600 scirroco head than my 1600 driver are they the same bhp/carb.

Does anyone know what the standard bhp is for a 1600 driver 1990
Title: Re: SORRY
Post by: steviem on 10 January 2006, 21:53
theres a valver in parts for sale thats £50!
Title: Re: SORRY
Post by: jv on 10 January 2006, 22:02
72bhp according to Parkers
Title: Re: SORRY
Post by: Brads MK2 GTI on 10 January 2006, 22:39
Hate to put a downer on your idea, but I'd say 130bhp out of a 1.6 driver engine is completely unfeasible, if not impossible. If it can be done it'd cost so much money, an engine swap (even paying someone to do) would probably be alot cheaper. Like the man says, drop in a 16v GTI block and head for around 130 - 140 instant. Or an 8v (around 112 bhp) and go from there.
Title: Re: SORRY
Post by: VeeDubGTI16v on 11 January 2006, 10:39
buy a gti :grin: youll have to change EVERYTHING :shocked:
Title: Re: SORRY
Post by: Terrible1 on 11 January 2006, 10:48
Cheers JV

Correct me if i'm wrong but the 1600 is the same block as an 1800 therefore change the 1600 head you've got an 1800 engine. 130bhp from an 1800 engine should be possible....?

Is the 1800 driver not the same as the gti with out the I injection aka driver GT lol

replace my current head with a new flowed gti head leave the injectors in adn run it through a carb.

Any ideas

Keep them coming but no more engine swaps please :drool:
Title: Re: SORRY
Post by: VWDino on 11 January 2006, 11:21
You need to get 1.8 cranks and pistons in order to go from 1.6 to 1.8. The engines are the same apart from that.
Title: Re: SORRY
Post by: Si on 11 January 2006, 13:07
I thought the bore size of 1.6 and 1.8 block was same, just Crank and conrods were different, but rubjonny told me the Pistons are different aswell.  :undecided:
So if you wanted to go bigger diameter you would either need to change Pistons, Crank, and Rods or change complete block to 1800?!   :smiley:
An 1.8 8v Head will fit on the 1.6 Block but it will be hard to achieve 130 BHP from that.
Twin Carbs would prob get you close to 130?  :cool:  :evil:

Title: Re: SORRY
Post by: Terrible1 on 11 January 2006, 13:13
Ah :angry:

So i'd have to do the main block too. In that case it would be easier just to swap the engines over.

Are you sure, the only part on the 1600 thats the same as an 1800 is the bottom end? I thought that it was just the head and it was restircted to 1597cc simple mod if it was swap the end guess thats too good to be true.....

Good damn VW :wink:
Title: Re: SORRY
Post by: Neaty on 11 January 2006, 13:20
On a 1600 drive this is what i was going to do to mine:

Twin Weber 40's
Highlift cam
Ported Head (or a GTI head if not feasable)
GTI exhasut manifold and down piper

wont be 130 bhp but will be a big difference to the 75 bhp driver engine
Title: Re: SORRY
Post by: Terrible1 on 11 January 2006, 13:20
Sorry Si you posted while i was typing there might be light then.

Put a 1800 (i'm only talking 8v's) on the 1600 main block would fit although without chaning the pistons, crank conrods ect is there going to be that much of a difference?

Does anyone know for sure if you have to change the pistons or are the 1600 block compatible with 1800 head and bottom end. What power am i likely to lose by haveing a 1600 block compared to having full 1800 engine. Could this be made up by twin carbs or would the money i spend on carbs be more useful on changing the block. :sad:

Title: Re: SORRY
Post by: Neaty on 11 January 2006, 13:28
the 1800cc part is the bottom end with the cylinders and pistons, so you would have to get an 1800 bottom end frm a GTI or a 1800 GL or driver!


EDIT (as i realised i was talking rubbish)

If i was you i would leave the bottom end as it is Capacity wise and focus on the head and the carb etc, but get a lightened and balanced crank
Title: Re: SORRY
Post by: Terrible1 on 11 January 2006, 13:35
Neaty:- :grin:

Thats excatley what i want to do. I don't understand why i can't replace the 1600 head with an 1800 one as a stright swap. If the bottom end is a 1800 why would the pistons conrdos blah blah blah will be different to that as a normal 1800 with an 1800 head?
Title: Re: SORRY
Post by: takethefifth on 11 January 2006, 13:49
The block is the same but its the stroke (how much they go up and down) of the pistons that was altered to reduce the cc from 1.8 to 1.6.  Changing the head has no difference on the cubic capacity of your cyclinders.
Title: Re: SORRY
Post by: Terrible1 on 11 January 2006, 13:57
tt5th I get you  :smiley:

so what advantages, power increases am i likely to get by doing as neaty says an changing the head over and getting the crank lighten and balanced.
Title: Re: SORRY
Post by: takethefifth on 11 January 2006, 14:05
The head will let it breathe better with the bigger inlet and outlet manifolds, the camshaft more aggressive fuelling and lightened bits will help it spin up faster. So more power and a more responsive drive but i couldn't take a guess at the HP gain. The standard 1.8gti 8v is listed at 112HP so you would be at less than that.

To hit 130hp you would have to do some serious work on the head, add a physco cam shaft, lightened pistons, balanced everything, weber twin chokes and maybe even nitrous!! I'm sure you could plumb a new engine in for less than the cost of doing all that. And plus if you did get it done you would have to uprate the brakes so you could stop again!!
Title: Re: SORRY
Post by: Terrible1 on 11 January 2006, 15:05
tt5th:- Thanks mate  :wink:
Title: Re: SORRY
Post by: rubjonny on 11 January 2006, 23:44
Ok, all the carb 1600 & 1800 heads are exactly the same, so swapping will give you no benefit.  You can however fit a 1.8 GTI cam which will give you a little more HP.

The 1600 block is exactly the same as the 1800 block (it even has 1.8 stamped on it), but the crank, rods and possibly pistons (according to ETKA, but you know how confusing it is!) are different to bring the CC down to 1600.

The 1.8 carb block is exactly the same as the 1.8 GTI block, so it doesn't matter which you go for. Personally I'd get one from an automatic GL as they are less likly to have been owned by a boy racer and thrashed, but the 1.8 lump is pretty much bomb proof anyway ;)

The GTI head has bigger valves so fitting one to your carbed lump will give you a little more HP, but you have to figure out a way to block the injector holes. (one way is to leave the old injectors in) The other issue is that the GTI head will not have the coolant feed for the inlet manifold, so you may suffer from carb icing, and the 2e2 autochoke & waxstat will not function correctly.

You could fit a 2.0 2e block from a MK3 GTI or Passat for a nice boost in torque, paired with a flowed GTI head you can get some decent HP gains too, and even with the std carb head should give you a noticable boost.
You need to do 2 things to make it fit though, you have to block the breather hole off on the front, (I'm not sure where the carb fuel pum would go, there may be another plate?) and then swap the gear from the 2e dizzy onto your carb dizzy, then get an adaptor plate to make it fit in the hole.  Both these items can be pruchased from TSR I believe :)

Hope this clears things up :)