GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: biz on 31 May 2003, 02:04
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Has anyone else experienced exploding gearboxes.
First gear decided to launch itself through the gearbox casing, is this a common problem and is there anything that can be done to prevent this happening in the new box?
Cheers
Biz
PS - The car had done 100k
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yes mate.that happened to me too.My car was a 1990 16valver and when i was passing a guy on the motorway i heard a clunk and a lot of smoke and oil mist appeared in the rear view mirror.in my case it was the something in the diff housing,the mechanic discovered that rivets on a gearwheel had got shorn off and basically put holes into the clutch housing area and gearbox making a hell of a mess.when i tried to get another gearbox i was told that this was a weak point in 16valvers and i couldn,t find one anywhere as all second hand ones had already been snatched up by other unfortunate owners.i had considered putting an 8valve gearbox into my car but was advised not to as it wouldn,t stick the pressure of the i6 valve grunt.I opted to get the gearbox i had fixed and reconditioned and it worked a treat after that and did wasn,t overly expensive either.
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Glad I'm not the only one!!
May look at getting box reconditioned if it's not too much, never know what you are getting with a second hand box or engine.
Cheers
Biz
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Hi,
I've got a gearbox for sale out of a 1986 D reg 8v... It's done 123k miles, and is in good condition.
You can have it for ?60 if you like? And, I can get it delivered to you if need be (for extra of course)?
ajh
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My Gearbox on my '91 16V suffered from the dreaded rivets breaking on the diff, Mine made itself known by dropping oil everywhere then after about a year of this and topping it up it finally gave up and the bellhousing gave way, The rivets breaking off on the 020 boxes is a well known problem and VW sell a bolt kit to fix it.
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Just been reading back through some posts about sheared diff rivets. Father in laws has just chucked a couple of rivets through the side of his gearbox..........he didn't realise what had happened and carried on driving it with no oil............. :( :( :(
modulator, you mention a 'bolt kit' to fix it. Obviously its too late for this box but I have another 2 in bits at the moment and think, having seen this one, it would be prudent to mod these 2 boxes. Any idea on the part number etc.?
Steve (mk1) I think you've mentioned it too..........can you shed any light? Anyone else?
TIA.
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Same prob happened on my 16v,the problem started out by car not going into reverse,removed and stripped the box,was lucky as one of the rivet heads had sheared but luckily missed everything and lodged itself onto the magnet in the box,cant remember the part no though sorry RichandHazel but the kit cost me ?37.40+VAT.. from VAG the rivets are easy enough to remove just grind off the head and punch out with a 10mm punch,the reason box wouldnt go into reverse was another prob though,just replaced all bearings gaskets etc,2 litres on synthetic oil and she`s as good as new..You could replace the rivets with high tensile bolts but you only have about 3-4mm of clearance on one side of the diff/casing...so you would need to get the bolt heads machined down to clear..
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Cheers oakie..........I'll have a look in my ETKA later and see if that mentions anything. Sound like it would be well worth doing whilst I have the box apart.
Did the pre 020 (Mk1) boxes suffer the same problem?
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I couldn`t honestly say but if the diff is riveted to the crown wheel then I suppose it could cause a problem,but as far as I know 16v boxes are prone to major failure in this department..there was also an issue with this box where the pin can fly out of the diff
(the pin that holds the bevel gears in place) The fact that a lot of the power in the 16v is higher up in the rev range and they tend to get worked hard by moving up and down the box a lot is prob what helps them on their way but to last 12years it hasnt done bad.Was pleased I got mine sorted with peace of mind,as originally I thought it was shot and didnt strip till I got a second hand one from volks-apart for ?280 that was nothing more than scrap I didnt even take it off the pallet that was severley shafted in the above department......
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Would a mk3 16v box fit because it has the stronger rivets fitted from the factory. The reason for this is because vw know the mk2 16v had weak diff rivets. I have read this in a book somewhere, i cant remember what book though. :) :)
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Good question, I'm not sure.....not knowing an awful lot about the Mk3.
'6? Anyone else know?
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when I was making enquiries for my 16v I was told that the mk3 8V box was about the same (several peeps mentioned this)as the mk2 16v box,this apparantly is why none of the breakers had the mk2 boxes in stock when I was after one,guys with mk3 8v`s were buying them due to the cost of the mk3 box being a lot higher
not sure on the mk3 16v being the same but noone metioned this at the time..
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Early VW 020 trannies had rivets attaching the ring gear to the differential. These rivets were somewhat soft, and could work loose.
When one loosens, it stresses the others accellerating their demise, and you may have a catastrophic failure :o.
The rivet could bounce around and get between the ring and pinion teeth;) it could get caught between the ring gear and gearbox case, grinding a hole it in ; or other rivets could let go too letting the ring gear flop around, again grinding a hole in the case >:(.
The bolt kit replaces the rivets with bolts and are supposed to be much stronger.
Also the shaft that holds the spider gears in place was not sufficiently secured (axially), and it would sometimes slip out and totally wreck the case >:(.
I am looking for the company that we used to get the bolt kits from, I was not the buyer.
I think mk3 16v used a 02a,may be wrong.
I have a spare box out of a mk3 td for my car (hope I don't need it ::)). The speedo drive is electric, just a swap over I think, give nice long ratios ;).
Steve.
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Oh...
Another option is a low milage 'box out of a "maestro".
Swap the cv joint flanges over and away you go ;), (no good for 16v as clutch shaft is 8v size) prob get one for buttons and would have had a easy life.
Off to join the leyland forum now :(.
Steve.
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i found out alot about this problem a year or so ago.
heres the links i found..........
http://www.scirocco16v.com/tech/sms_syndrome.htm (http://www.scirocco16v.com/tech/sms_syndrome.htm)
The problem has become a classic one for VW owners with close-ratio gearboxes: sudden & catastrophic failure of the normally well-mannered and durable gearbox. The 020 is a tough tranny, one that stands up well to the abuses of hard driving and the added torque from such upgraded powerplants as a Techtonics Tuning 2020 motor or a turbocharged engine. Now, stock transmissions, carefully driven, are failing when the differential eats it's way through the case.
IDENTIFYING THE CULPRIT
Those transmissions built with serial numbers up to 14102 (gearboxes up to October 14, 1982) have snap rings installed on the differential pinion shafts. Those boxes do not usually have any problems. Cars with the wide-ratio gearboxes do not seem to have the problem. The cars affected include GTIs and GLIs from 1983 to 1986 (both A1 and A2 chassis), 8-valve Sciroccos from 1983 to 1986, and 1984 to 1986 Cabriolets. These cars had close-ratio gear boxes starting with serial number 15102 (gearboxes built after October 14, 1982) and up, and did not have the snap rings installed. The grooves are still there, but apparently some engineer at VW dreamed up the idea of using a larger head on one of the rivets as a retainer and doing away with the 15 cent circlips. The special rivet is simply not able to properly retain the pinion shafts. Under even normal driving conditions, there's a chance that the pinion shaft works itself out, let's things tilt around and eventually machines a hole in the transmission case. Shop supervisor Paul Boot at New Dimensions said that most of the failures they've seen occur between the 50,000 and 120,000 mile mark. One somewhat limp "cure" that VW has incorporated is to use rivets with a thicker head. This still won't provide the positive location of the shaft afforded by the circlips, but at least it takes longer for the pinion shaft to pound it's way through. No one we've talked to has taken apart a late-model non-16v close- ratio box, so we're not sure if VW continued with the rivets or has returned to using the circlips. On the gearboxes used with 16v motors, VW has resorted to using the circlips again. For VW's service differential repair kit (#171-498-088) used when replacing the ring & pinion (either when changing ratios or as a service replacement) the rivets are replaced. The kit included eight studs and nuts (to be used in place of the rivets), washers, retaining bracket - and two circlips.
The first symptom that your beloved car has been attacked by this design flaw is a gear oil leak under the transmission and, perhaps, strange noises from the gearbox. An alert driver will notice it right away. Most gear oils have a distinct appearance. (It's thick smelly stuff) Note that a failed differential side gear retainer is not the only source of a gear oil leak. Leaky side seals or a worn-out output shaft seal are other potential sources. Both of those tend to be slower, smaller leaks then a case that's ground through. Don't worry - if you miss the first hint, you'll get a second chance. Like most second chances, this one can be a bit more expensive than the first. You'll notice it when all of a sudden, your clutch fails, but strangely, when you check the adjustment, it's okay. One symptom of a slipping clutch occurs on a long upgrade, when the engine revs climb but the road speed stays the same. Is it all over at that point? Will everything in your tranny be trashed? At this point, we would hate to call it a credit to VW engineering, but here we go: When to retainer rivet fails, the hole is ground high enough up on the case that it does not immediately drain all of the gear oil. With time, it will continue to pump more and more out. The first damage is "just" the clutch and pressure plate. As the gear oil level drops, the next thing to go is fifth gear, soon followed by the rest ofthe gears. In short, many of the affected transmissions are repairable, if you stop driving the car immediately. That includes towing with the front wheels on the ground too.
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Nice one ;), part no... differential repair kit (#171-498-088)... incase you missed it.
Steve.
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OMG :o What a fantastic write up.......thank you very much.
Just taken the gearbox out of my father in laws Mk2 GTI (J plate) and the destruction is unbelieveable. With this one, the diff rivets let go and unfortunately he carried on driving it until he could no longer get any gears :( I'll take some pics in a mo that backs up exactly what vwsystems has just quoted.
Some of you may remember the pics and write up from my cabrio gearbox. With that one it was the pinion shaft that let go. I never thought I would see a gearbox so badly damaged until I saw this Mk2 one. Again, I'll dig out the pictures.
I hasten to add that I had nothing to do with the damage done to these gearboxes, I would like to think that I would be more observant and stop before things got this bad.
Pics to follow soon.........
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mine was a mess with gearoil when the diff bearings colapsed (i dont think this was caused by the sms)
this was on 175000! and because of the clutch cable being set wrong too tight but i had to do this as it was crunching!!!! my fault the clutch went funny and grounded into the gearbox!!!!!
so i had another case put on which was ?200
now i know how to set the cable up it the clutch tention no further!!!! otherwise that happens but when the manual doesnt tell you how to set it this is what happens!!!!!!!
all is well in the g box area and the engine miles are on 196000 ;D ;D ;D
as far as i know all gearboxes up to the mk 4 are affected not sure about the vr6!
just got to make sure theres oil in there and that should help to prolong the life of the box!
if i know anything i will share it! i'm glad to be of assistance!!!!!! ;D ;D 8)