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Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: EB2019 on 08 November 2024, 20:22
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Walked into a VW dealer today and was surrounded by Vauxhalls, (probably disrespectful to Vauxhall cars tbh).
They were all low quality, with empty interiors all in black, and low quality fabric, If you took the badge off it could be a Kia/Nissan/Hyundai etc.
Passat had a tiny shallow boot, low roof line and lardy shape, Tiguan was small and unimposing at the front, with 'new' wrap around tail lights across the tailgate - like that's a reason to get a new PCP. Polo looked like it could lose a few pounds with the overall shape as it just seems portly, mk8 Golf was cheap and seemed like it was devoid of VW quality or enthusiasm.
VAG chased the Asia dream of selling cars to a market they couldn't previously tap into, like an endless cycle of consumers outside the EU. The Chinese looked at the cars on offer and surpassed them with battery/tec and lower price all within 10 years. Its embarrassing what we are offered compared to what is coming down the line from China.
I sat in a work colleagues MG HS thing recently, and the leather seats, thud of the doors and quality of the digital display was way ahead of VW, and it was about 28k!!
VW is the very definition of a legacy car maker.
Not really mk7 content I know, but I went back after recent warranty work on my VW that has sprung a coolant leak (yes 1 day after VW fitted new thermostat) :rolleyes:
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The last time I was at the dealership I thought the same, all dull, uninspiring and very cheap looking. Thinking about changing at the moment and it won't be a VW.
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I had a mk8.5 Golf as a courtesy car back in September when my car was serviced and MOT’d. Comparing it to my Brother’s current shape Vauxhall Astra, IMHO the Astra seems a better built, better screwed together car than the mk8.5 Golf; tight, uniform shutlines (much better than my Polo GTI+) and the doors and tailgate shut with a more solid sounding thud than the Golf’s doors and tailgate too. So @EB2019, maybe you were being disrespectful to Vauxhalls……………..
I had a look at a Kia Ceed recently and was pleasantly surprised. In some ways it reminded me of the mk6 Golf GTD I owned (especially the interior), and I felt that my mk6 GTD was a very well built car.
With VW’s current financial woes - see discussion topic at the link below - I think it’s unlikely we’ll be seeing an upturn in quality at VW in the foreseeable future.
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I was on the verge of posting something very similar after my visit to vw this week for my annual service.
In fact I think it will be my last main dealer service, the whole experience was unpleasant from start to finish.
For the first time I can remember, I had no interest whatsoever in any of the cars, new or old, at the dealership. None whatsoever. And I am someone who enjoys cars.
Also of note- there were virtually no customer cars in the car park and the staff inside looked disinterested.
The car industry really must be struggling.
Soulless place.
I then had the usual dealer shenanigans - they made me replace 2 perfectly good tyres to get me through the MOT. They also identified the thermostat housing leak that every mk7 owner expects.
Astonishingly, they suggested I should keep an eye on it as the warranty work may not be authorised if the leak is slight.
No way! I wasn’t gonna accept that. It’s a long time since I’ve got that angry.
They have now agreed- and the car goes back next week for the work to be done.
Anyway, it’s “no thanks “ to another all in plan- i’m done with these bstrds poking around my car to sell me expensive stuff i don’t need- and then trying to wriggle out of their warranty obligations.
Next year will be self service- or possibly the local indie.
But yes- I couldn’t agree more- there was nothing of interest in this dealership for me
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I was on the verge of posting something very similar after my visit to vw this week for my annual service.
In fact I think it will be my last main dealer service, the whole experience was unpleasant from start to finish.
For the first time I can remember, I had no interest whatsoever in any of the cars, new or old, at the dealership. None whatsoever. And I am someone who enjoys cars.
Had a similar feeling when I took mine in for service the other week. One thing that struck me is that the R-line is now their mainstream trim, almost everything they had in stock had an R badge on it. VW are doing a BMW when they started sticking the M badge on everything. Except 'R' doesn't quite have the same cachet.
I'm also done with the dealer and I'm going to do my own servicing from now on. I just get the impression they don't care for the car or the customer any more.
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@karlos,
It’s the dishonesty I hate. I’ve heard the word “ stealers” used to describe main dealers. It’s actually a pretty accurate description.
One issue with the all in plan, when you have MoT booked on same day as service is that they’ve got you by the bllx- “ sir unfortunately we’ve found cuts in your tyres which are down to cord”. I had a look myself under the ramp- after a brief discussion, I took the view that I’d done 10k on these tyres and I may as well accept it.
I had a similar experience on a previous visit.
On my list visit, they quoted me for all sorts of unnecessary work ( including “ pads and discs” even though the technician had said discs were fine! - “ we normally advise changing both “!!)
Oil change is very straightforward on these. I’ll perhaps do that next year then an independent for the major service the year after. Though I think it’s all pretty straightforward- plugs, pollen, air filter- job done, several hundred pounds saved, and a much more pleasant experience
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The thing that struck me about the offerings in the dealership, and to be fair they had one of each car in the range (almost), was that if it was my cash-in-hand i wouldn't buy any of them. At no point did I think, "I wonder how much it would cost to change?" and I'm a serial car changer, (its cost my lots over the years as you never win).
My own recent trip has resulted in another trip as I have a puddle on the floor after the thermostat change, great work VW!! But again its under warranty so its just a bit of an inconvenience to get it sorted. Hopefully you have more success Yusee!
It was also disappointing VW dropped the nav traffic, I use carplay anyway but its not the point. VW traffic works perfectly well in Europe when on holiday but not in the UK. Yet our 2020 Fiesta, BMW 2016, and BMW 2021 all seemed to have live traffic that functions normally.
I think I will go for a years full warranty cover for £500 and leave it at that. I have a trusted mech/garage who fits what I want how I want (I'm pretty anal about that) and he will be doing my MOT today. Dealer will only see the car for warranty work.
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@EB2019,
There were only 4 cars in the showroom- it’s actually a pretty big dealership.
Polo, id3, i can’t even remember the other 2.
I had no inclination to open the door and sit inside- let alone ever think about buying any of them.
I think your general point is absolutely right- car makers are taking a “white goods” approach to car manufacturing. Gone are the days that each manufacturer brought something different and interesting.
Servicing is a whole different issue. Can’t complain about the quality of work at my dealership-i quite meticulously check after every visit- but much of it is unnecessary (and expensive!).
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All v interesting. I’ve said for some time cars are being sold now as a domestic appliance……and driven that way too!!
Talking to dealer sales staff recently left me with the thought that the 40k tax the stills is hitting VW very hard because they are right in that bracket of “not cheap cars but not expensive luxury either”
So Dacia can ignore the 40k tax and so can BMW and MB…… but the threshold hits VW right in the guts.
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the stills = threshold!!!!
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My OH is changing her Lupo which we've had from new for a Fiat 500. Oh the horror! Or so I thought. We had a look at them a couple of weeks ago and compared with VW offerings, they seemed really good. The interiors were very nice, stylish and of a decent quality. Was a bit of an eye opener tbh.
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My OH is changing her Lupo which we've had from new for a Fiat 500. Oh the horror! Or so I thought. We had a look at them a couple of weeks ago and compared with VW offerings, they seemed really good. The interiors were very nice, stylish and of a decent quality. Was a bit of an eye opener tbh.
For an ‘A’ segment city car, I think the Fiat 500 is a great little car. I’ve looked at one or two non-VAG’s recently and build quality seems pretty good; most seem equal to or better than VW.
IMHO VW have been complacent of late and much of the competition has caught up - or overtaken - them in the build quality stakes. When I bought my first VW (a mk4 Golf) back in 2002, there were lots of little touches that made it feel quite special compared to most other C segment cars. IMHO VW’s no longer feel special.
It’s very easy to not consider the competition if someone’s become loyal to, or out of habit doesn’t really consider anything other than VW because that’s what they’ve bought for many years. Admittedly choices are more limited if a person’s must-have requirement is a performance model, as much of the competition no longer have performance models in the vehicle line up. However, for non-performance cars, there are lots of good non-VW / non-VAG alternatives.
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I noticed that Fiat have stopped manufacturing the ICE 500 Abarth earlier this year - real shame IMO.
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My OH is changing her Lupo which we've had from new for a Fiat 500. Oh the horror! Or so I thought.
When any member of staff gets a car at our place I have a look/poke around, being a car nut I like them all and find it interesting to see other makes and the solutions and innovative things they do. I would have an Abarth tomorrow if I could get the bikes on one. (I have looked into it)
I watched this video from Harry's garage this week, and although its talking about supercars, it does resonate with all the thoughts we are having and what's going on in the car industry.
Not sure if you can embed a link but this will do :undecided:
https://youtu.be/bs0-G2vIWiU?si=HEv6TqtdNJHm-hyW (https://youtu.be/bs0-G2vIWiU?si=HEv6TqtdNJHm-hyW)
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I noticed that Fiat have stopped manufacturing the ICE 500 Abarth earlier this year - real shame IMO.
They are about to finish all petrol 500s. I think it's great value as you can get a new one for around £13k there or there abouts. OH is looking forward to joining the modern world with such amazing features as electric windows and air conditioning let alone sat nav!
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Likewise was in the dealer not long ago and there was a lot of drab stuff around, but I will say the new Touareg and Arteon R Estate look exceptional.
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I noticed that Fiat have stopped manufacturing the ICE 500 Abarth earlier this year - real shame IMO.
They are about to finish all petrol 500s. I think it's great value as you can get a new one for around £13k there or there abouts. OH is looking forward to joining the modern world with such amazing features as electric windows and air conditioning let alone sat nav!
My sister is on her third 500, loves them.
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Just going back to my post of 9 Nov about the 40k “tax cliff” and VW’s model range, when I was in the showroom the salesperson pointed to a new model Tiguan in the showroom.
She said the problem with that car was it would come in just under the threshold as standard but the factory had sent it with black alloys which took it just over the threshold.
No amount of discounting or dealing is going to change the tax. A hard one to shift I reckon.
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I hate to be negative, but I think this is the start of the end for Volkswagen. Just can't see them competing with the storm of Chinese cars which will come through over the next 2-3 years. I really do think the tariff's will be overcome once they start opening factories in Europe, so the models will be much better priced.
I've had VW's for the past 20 years, can definitely notice a big drop in build quality and cost-cutting.
I was at Westfield shopping centre a few weeks ago in London and was surprised to see a BYD showroom there. My perception of these Chinese built cars was not that great and lower quality but I was surprised when I was in the showroom. The build quality, the interior materials etc was a step above VW. The other thing that surprised me was how busy the showroom was, it was a Saturday and the showroom was quite small, but still it was packed and all the staff were busy with customers. I've watched so many videos after that as it got me interested and learned a lot more about what's coming down the line.
I'll be keeping my 7.5 GTI for another couple of years max, but that will be my last VW. I'm looking forward to test driving a Zeekr car once it's launched in the UK: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UrgCbzOGpU
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It used to be that German car makers had the edge because the Chinese couldn't copy or create a complex ICE engine design.
This obviously has changed and electric motors are much simpler to design and build even starting from scratch.
Thats the cliff edge the German car industry has fallen off of.
On top, their factories in Europe are just too expensive vs China - basically the same problem the rest of manufacturing has had for a very long time now but the German car makers never grasped that nettle unlike the rest.
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Let’s all be super positive and say that VW is distinguished primarily by its Performance Golfs and Polos.
Like a brand within a brand (and no, I don’t mean the R-Line labels either!!!!).
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My OH is changing her Lupo which we've had from new for a Fiat 500. Oh the horror! Or so I thought. We had a look at them a couple of weeks ago and compared with VW offerings, they seemed really good. The interiors were very nice, stylish and of a decent quality. Was a bit of an eye opener tbh.
My wife has had 3 Fiat 500’s They are great little city cars. Never had an issue with any of them and would recommend one in a heartbeat! Ironically, we decided to move back to VW for her new car and bought a 3 month old Polo R Line. IMHO it looks great and has decent kit as standard but best of all it’s still completely ICE and mild hybrid free🥳 a rarity these days!!
our daughter has just bought her first house and the 500 is definitely not a regular motorway car so she wanted something a little bigger.
I can’t see me moving back to a Golf or VW anytime soon either for all the same reasons already posted. I’ve been in a Volvo XC40 Ultimate since last year and absolutely love it. So glad I didn’t get the Tiguan R Line. It just seemed a little too affected by cost cutting measures everywhere 🤷♂️
Strange times
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Let’s all be super positive and say that VW is distinguished primarily by its Performance Golfs and Polos.
Like a brand within a brand (and no, I don’t mean the R-Line labels either!!!!).
It is, but for how much longer?
Unless the EU change their policy on fining car makers for not meeting BEV production target percentages, you will utlimately run into not being able to buy an ICE performance VW simply because VW won't be allowed to produce them above a certain number.... because the fines will be too much. In the UK the fine is £15,000 per vehicle sold over the limit...
This year's objective on the mandate is 22% of vehicle sales as BEV:
If you read this then you'll see VW are in a lot of trouble in 2024:
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-13837315/ZEV-mandate-targets-manufacturers-clear-falling-behind.html
I would say, don't count on VW selling you an ICE car pretty soon...
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OH's Lupo being replaced by a Fiat 500, never thought something like that would happen. Placed an order today, due mid December for one sat at the docks. Drove very well.
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What colour is the 500 Watts? They do some really nice colours.
My neighbour has a Hi-Viz yellow/green Abarth which looks amazing, sounds great too, although some of the other neighbours disagree!
As for the original post, aren’t all Vauxhalls now Stellantis clones? I happened to be passing the local(ish) VW dealer the other day, I saw a brand new Golf R black edition on its way off the forecourt, not sure whether it was a customer pickup or PDI test drive or whatever but it looked pretty distinctive, was running an Akra exhaust too so not something you’d see on a Vauxhall. The showroom itself had a few nice looking cars, new Tiguan and Passat both quite distinctive sitting in pride of place.
The fit and finish in my two mk8’s have been fine. Yeah, some of the plastics look a bit cheaper but mostly because they’re a dark grey and not black, a bit like comparing a mk4 and mk5 Golf interior.
I had one of the first F40 BMW 1 series, a late 2019 car which felt superior inside in almost every way than any of my mk7 and 7.5 Golfs. I’ve seen more recent examples of newer 1 series BMW’s and they too have slipped as regards to interior niceties. Cost cutting is everywhere in the industry alongside “more sustainable” car interior components. One either has to pick a car that’s not going to be subject to over the air updates and digital everything (and a mk7(.5) Golf is an ideal base for this, or just move with the times.
It’s the price of cars that’s the biggest hurdle now, not just huge inflationary hikes and high interest rates, but also the amount of legislated in “safety” gear which also comes at a cost.
A case of stick or twist.
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What colour is the 500 Watts? They do some really nice colours.
My neighbour has a Hi-Viz yellow/green Abarth which looks amazing, sounds great too, although some of the other neighbours disagree!
As for the original post, aren’t all Vauxhalls now Stellantis clones? I happened to be passing the local(ish) VW dealer the other day, I saw a brand new Golf R black edition on its way off the forecourt, not sure whether it was a customer pickup or PDI test drive or whatever but it looked pretty distinctive, was running an Akra exhaust too so not something you’d see on a Vauxhall. The showroom itself had a few nice looking cars, new Tiguan and Passat both quite distinctive sitting in pride of place.
The fit and finish in my two mk8’s have been fine. Yeah, some of the plastics look a bit cheaper but mostly because they’re a dark grey and not black, a bit like comparing a mk4 and mk5 Golf interior.
I had one of the first F40 BMW 1 series, a late 2019 car which felt superior inside in almost every way than any of my mk7 and 7.5 Golfs. I’ve seen more recent examples of newer 1 series BMW’s and they too have slipped as regards to interior niceties. Cost cutting is everywhere in the industry alongside “more sustainable” car interior components. One either has to pick a car that’s not going to be subject to over the air updates and digital everything (and a mk7(.5) Golf is an ideal base for this, or just move with the times.
It’s the price of cars that’s the biggest hurdle now, not just huge inflationary hikes and high interest rates, but also the amount of legislated in “safety” gear which also comes at a cost.
A case of stick or twist.
She's gone for the basics including the inclusive colour, Sicilian Orange. It was what she wanted so not compromised. They had a blue and a yellow electric Abarth, both looked great but as you mentioned above, the prices are mad! £38k for the Abarth. They also had a big Jeep, quite smart looking but final price if financed was £103k!! It's just unbelievable, I feel like I'm stuck in a different world, just can't get to grips with the cost of what looks to me as fairly mundane stuff.
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Good to see she’s gone for one of the funky colours, it all adds to the character.
Whats happening to the Lupo?
I think the 500 is one of very few cars that are actually affordable to regular human beings now, especially on a finance package.
How easy is it to get a Golf R (as an example) to £60k now? Too easy! I dread to think what a PCP on a loaded one would cost, and if you can afford to throw £60k cash into one then I dread to think what the depreciation is like. Even regular GTI’s are easy to spec up to £45k+
Having and keeping a mk7 Golf would be a prudent move. The grass isn’t always greener.
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Good to see she’s gone for one of the funky colours, it all adds to the character.
Whats happening to the Lupo?
I think the 500 is one of very few cars that are actually affordable to regular human beings now, especially on a finance package.
We need to find a new home for the Lupo, offered a silly amount for it given it's condition, 57k miles with a full service history and a cambelt and alternator this year. Having said that it might end up as a rushed webuyanycar job at the last minute...
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That would be snapped up as a private purchase in the classifieds.
If I had somewhere to park it and didn’t live a zillion miles from you…
Correction to my previous statement on mk8 interior being grey, it’s actually more black than grey having spent 10 minutes sat in mine in daylight outside the dentists. I think it’s because there’s an abundance of grey trim making it all feel grey. It’s black, just like a mk7 only in Vauxhall black not VW black 😁
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Prompted by the last comment in Exonian’s post late last night, I took a look at the VW Approved Used website as I idly do from time to time.
Specifically looked at 7.5 Performance models.
Clearly others agree that a good used example is still very desirable judging by the prices being asked! I might be wrong thinking they are actually increasing but they are certainly not going down right now!
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Just been into my dealer to book a service and tbh, it looks like they are closing down. Not literally, but only a couple of new cars in the showroom and things moved around to reduce the space for cars. Hardly any on the forecourt, they even had a 13 plate Beetle in the showroom! Another thing I noticed was how soon they could book the service, in the past it was weeks away, I was asked when I wanted. Threw me a bit :laugh:
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Prompted by the last comment in Exonian’s post late last night, I took a look at the VW Approved Used website as I idly do from time to time.
Specifically looked at 7.5 Performance models.
Clearly others agree that a good used example is still very desirable judging by the prices being asked! I might be wrong thinking they are actually increasing but they are certainly not going down right now!
The 2019 R we purchased VW Approved September 2023 has the same starting price on the forecourt now.
Putting the holding of prices down to the high regard the MK 7.5 is held in, and the suspicion that the competing early MK 8 would bring in getting a software lemon.
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Putting the holding of prices down to the high regard the MK 7.5 is held in, and the suspicion that the competing early MK 8 would bring in getting a software lemon.
Not many Mk8's over 3 years old yet.... mine was a really early one April 2021.... and the rest didn't come for some months after that... So I'd guess you've just not hit the wave of secondhand ones yet.
Also I think a lot of people have stopped the 3 year replacement cycle - I know I have!
Too expensive and everything else has also become a financial drag - I can't cover it any more or rather I can't justify it to have just a slightly different car.
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Prompted by the last comment in Exonian’s post late last night, I took a look at the VW Approved Used website as I idly do from time to time.
Specifically looked at 7.5 Performance models.
Clearly others agree that a good used example is still very desirable judging by the prices being asked! I might be wrong thinking they are actually increasing but they are certainly not going down right now!
7.5’s do indeed have rock solid residuals, reputation and desirability are right up there with the best. Similar to the mk2 GTI and mk5 GTI, the 7.5 has that ingredient X that stands the test of time. It’s the 7.5 more than the mk7 too, that shortish run of facelifted Performwnce Golfs from circa April 2017 to mid 2019 seem to have struck a chord with people. VW got it very right.
The up! GTI similarly has a keen following and great residuals.
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Putting the holding of prices down to the high regard the MK 7.5 is held in, and the suspicion that the competing early MK 8 would bring in getting a software lemon.
Not many Mk8's over 3 years old yet.... mine was a really early one April 2021.... and the rest didn't come for some months after that... So I'd guess you've just not hit the wave of secondhand ones yet.
Also I think a lot of people have stopped the 3 year replacement cycle - I know I have!
Too expensive and everything else has also become a financial drag - I can't cover it any more or rather I can't justify it to have just a slightly different car.
That's a good point, there is competing MK 8 to the MK 7.5 some of the GTI are in same price band, but there might be the 3 year wave of MK 8 returns coming from those still on that cycle, that you think would push down the MK 7.5 a little more.
Which is good for me, as be looking at a cash deal on a Clubsport or TCR as replacement for this company car when its handed back next year, my future cars will all be 3-5 years from now on in.
Company lease is simply too expensive now when add the BIC, which no way compensates for the not paying for insurance and tax like it used to, the car choice too limited as all decent cars are beyond grades they used to be readily available at, and the cost of a decent specced MK 8.5 and finance deals are mind boggling.
It used to be readily justifiable, never had any doubts on previous car changes, monies always on the right side of the enjoyment get in driving something enjoy. But that's over the last 15 years, when knew be working consistently, so my lens is slightly different now as look to when down tools and have more leisure time as more important.
So, all my spare cash is being pushed into the not working pot, have steadily increased my personal contribution, and will add even more to it when lease finishes and can funnel the £ in that direction instead.
Quite excited to get back into a TCR or maybe a ED40 Clubsport, always wanted something at 10 years, that can keep for another 10 as turns into some minor modern classic, the MK 6 GTI that got to fill that just missed the mark, but with all the modern tech on MK 7 it has more future proofing to allow keeping.
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Prompted by the last comment in Exonian’s post late last night, I took a look at the VW Approved Used website as I idly do from time to time.
Specifically looked at 7.5 Performance models.
Clearly others agree that a good used example is still very desirable judging by the prices being asked! I might be wrong thinking they are actually increasing but they are certainly not going down right now!
7.5’s do indeed have rock solid residuals, reputation and desirability are right up there with the best. Similar to the mk2 GTI and mk5 GTI, the 7.5 has that ingredient X that stands the test of time. It’s the 7.5 more than the mk7 too, that shortish run of facelifted Performwnce Golfs from circa April 2017 to mid 2019 seem to have struck a chord with people. VW got it very right.
The up! GTI similarly has a keen following and great residuals.
I know those who have driven MK 8 and now MK 8.5 can testify to an improvement in drive, but if you not have that context and just get into a MK 7.5 for first time, it will just feel a brilliant all round car with few weaknesses, 300 BHP, on AWD, with decent interior, comfort, tech and ride.
My 128Ti is a great workhorse, eats up the miles effortlessly and in comfort, just cracked 22k in 23 months, but my joy of driving only comes when step into our 2019 R, it just feels a step up.
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BTW I recently had my Mk8 serviced by a VW dealership (I have the all in plan.... but I'm not doing it again!) and there is something very strange going on.
Firstly I could get my car booked in in days not the months they used to quote.
Their showroom contained just a couple of cars (no Golfs at all!)
Their used selection outside was about a third of their lot capacity.
It totally felt like a closing down event...
They still tried to get me for "80% brake pads" though...some things remain constant even at VW dealers! :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
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I've been to two dealerships recently when considering the order of a new GTI, which I have done. Both had a full showroom and plenty of used stock. I guess some are just doing a better job than others!!
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It was like stepping back into Thatcher’s Britain on my last visit.
“ ghost town “ playing in my head
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It was like stepping back into Thatcher’s Britain on my last visit.
“ ghost town “ playing in my head
That’s just you looking for an excuse to play retro music in your head! 😁
All the main dealers down my way seem well stocked and doing a brisk trade. Must be all those “poor” farmers spending their millions to avoid inheritance tax! 🤐
But the service department are haranguing me constantly to book my service in which I can’t be bothered to do just yet. I’ll book it in for Xmas Eve to see if I get a free mince pie…
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It was like stepping back into Thatcher’s Britain on my last visit.
“ ghost town “ playing in my head
That’s just you looking for an excuse to play retro music in your head! 😁
All the main dealers down my way seem well stocked and doing a brisk trade. Must be all those “poor” farmers spending their millions to avoid inheritance tax! 🤐
But the service department are haranguing me constantly to book my service in which I can’t be bothered to do just yet. I’ll book it in for Xmas Eve to see if I get a free mince pie…
I’m a retro kind of guy 😉
Honestly, it’s the only tune that fits- the place was dead.
I too got a booking as soon as I wanted.
Hope you’re keeping well- I see you’re driving a 2023 car - getting a bit old, isn’t it?🤪
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2023 is pure retro by now too!
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Had my rear pads done today so was interested how my local dealer was going to look like after many of the comments here.... it was absolutely rammed! Outside every space was full, cars were double parked while drivers dropped them off, stacks of new/used cars mainly ICE but a section had many big EVs - inside there were new cars around although I didn't note what they were.
Got given a 74 plate Golf GTE which I guess was a Mk8 (climate slider was not illuminated) - very odd car especially as the service guy described it as 'sporty', noticed how high off the ground it was compared to my GTI, not sure of the ICE engine size but going up a local steep hill it changed down and revs shot up to 4k - no idea what gear it was in - normally this would be 4th gear hill at 1900 rpm in my car - I even had to fill the screenwash as that was flashing up saying it was empty, soon discovered how bloody heavy the bonnet was - it weighed a tonne. Can't say it was my cup of tea.
One small thing with the Dealers - I run my car setup to show kilometres, normally at it's yearly service I try and remember to switch it to miles - today I forgot and the paper work now has the 'mileage' shown as the value in kilometres (76k instead of 47k) - I know I should have changed it but to me it's a detail that should have been spotted (Km at end of number) and maybe brought up at handover.
Anyhow - all looks ok ay my local dealers.
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I visited the local BMW last week, as my car needed an airbag recall.
In the showroom was a brand new BMW M135i.
I felt the same, it looked unremarkable and the interior wasn't especially great quality either. Certainly not what you would expect on a car with a £50k price tag on the screen.
Manufacturers are having to hike prices and cut quality just to survive in current market, sadly that is just going to make matters worse.
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A neighbour of mine has recently taken delivery of an F70 1 series, the exterior changes look pretty decent if you like Ford Fiestas, but the interior looks like they’ve done a VW as regards a 7.5 interior compared to a mk8(.5) - a lot of cost cutting gone on. You do still get a gas bonnet strut though. 😁
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Prompted by the last two posts I looked at the BMW website for the 1 series.
Looks terribly bland …… the original version was quirky but at least different. Latest version is rather anonymous.
And ……. Looks like the 128ti has been dropped. That’s a shame.
Not many GTI alternatives left now.
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I was chatting with a VW 'scene low rider' recently and always wondered why VW were so S**t at coupe/saloon options.
The Bora had potential in the MK4, it was interesting with the front end, with lots of practicality in 4 door and a big-ish boot. Later in the ROW the Jetta was bland and uninspiring like the Passat, but BMW produced and made it work with the Coupe/2 series. Which is now an enthusiast dream.
VW had an opportunity to develop an R a GTi version in a saloon but missed the boat IMO, it would have been a cheaper milder M2 or M135I equivalent with boot space and 4 doors, they could have even used 4WD and not followed the very niche 2 door TT which I like but was only a 2nd car for most.
The RS3 starts at 60k now, so plenty of room underneath for another model that could be a coupe/saloon, but it seems VW have so little vision/money/interest in providing anything interesting.
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The Scirocco being long dead now having morphed into an SUV (T-Roc) leaves VW with only the Arteon R if they still make it? The Passat CC never really made any headway this side of the Atlantic even when fitted with the VR6. The Yanks still get a decently styled Jetta GLi I think, but few in Europe would buy one.
I’d say an RS3 would likely be well north of £60k now once specced to how a typical RS3 owner would want one. And the humble Golf R is not far off £60k once specced up to the R brigade’s de facto level I’d imagine.
Mad world. VW are in the cart anyway, maybe they should switch production to tanks and drones to flog to their neighbour; only the Chinese do EV’s at the price point people can afford (at least in the UK where they don’t get hammered by import tariffs) so the Euro legacy marques are a bit stumped - can’t produce EV’s that people will buy in decent numbers and can’t sell too many ICE or they’ll get fined. Catch22.
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Good summary exonian.
The problem as I see it is that with a combination of required safety equipment and emissions control you've increased the cost of any car. Then factor in the end of cheap finance and soaring inflation (impacting both your manufacturing costs and your customer's ability to have disposable income for a car) ... It basically means a car makers potential customer base is much smaller than for the last decade plus.
It's the perfect storm unfortunately and it's going to probably end mid price European manufactured cars.
High end of course will stay, the rich don't care but middle market with middle income customers...
What I think we will see at a minimum is this middle section reducing in model availability.
For vw specifically this is largely their place in the market. It's going to hit them the hardest of any marque IMHO
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Looks like death by a thousand cuts
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cje9kv3q94po
The attitude of slowly trying to cut cost over the next 5 years may leave them stuck between, investing in the future and more low quality offerings. The Germans already seem stuck with an economy with lots of manufacturing that no one wants, the "Socially responsible manner" of the savings will only be good news for the competition, and by that I mean China.
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The main problem is the ZEV mandate.
The demand for petrol and diesel cars is there, but they are not allowed to sell them because otherwise they won't meet targets for selling a high enough percentage of EV's.
The EV's meanwhile are being sold at huge discounts and next to no profit, but that is better than paying a £15k fine for each ICE car over the limit.
They have to make savings or increase prices where they can.
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High cost socially responsible economy meets Chinese manufacturing methods... As I said before it's only what's been happening elsewhere in manufacturing. Germans somehow thought they were immune to it...
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Worth watching this..
Harry’s garage - fascinating summary on the politics behind the push for EVs, and where he thinks it’s going..
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhi7zldGjBo
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I'm not sure he's entirely talking about the real world there. Seems a little bit fixated on the super luxury end of the scale.
His comments about terrible depreciation don't add up really either as looking at the current top ten UK bad buys it looks very little different to days gone by :
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars-vans/94305/fastest-depreciating-cars-top-10-worst-motoring-money-pits
In that list are citreon, Peugeot, massarati and jags... All the usual suspects.
If anything was wrong with ev strategy it's the bit where first and foremost it should have started at the bottom of the market not top.
VW and others have only just realised this when it was stupidity to have done it the other way around from day one...
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My perfect car is the car that I've already got.
I know it won't last forever and I am dreading the day I have to replace it.
For what?
Nothing out there that I would want, I'll keep mine going as long as possible. Still love it to bits.
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Worth watching this..
Harry’s garage - fascinating summary on the politics behind the push for EVs, and where he thinks it’s going..
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhi7zldGjBo
I started watching that last weekend, got so far in and switched off after deciding I had nothing to relate to wealthy car collectors running £80k PHEV’s as family runabouts even if it is Harry whom I respect massively.
Read your post mid-week so decided to watch the whole vid when I had time.
Having properly watched it now, there are some really good points raised, particularly how disharmonious the rules are globally as regards to EV transition.
I’m certainly not one of those car lovers that derides EV’s. In fact I’d be keen to try one, so long as it fitted my needs and budget and wasn’t a jelly mould saloon or sodding SUV.
I have to agree with fredgroves, it’s all arse about face. Instead of focus on £100k cars only bought by MD’s to avoid tax and subsequently halving in value almost immediately as no private buyer would touch one with a barge pole, it should be smaller more affordable mass transport that real people can buy, which will actually have enough take up to make a difference to local emissions in built up areas.
Manufacturers should have hit the market with Renault 5 size cars (and very slightly larger) from the off, at Renault 5 type pricing, then there would never have been any need for manufacturers to have to buy credits or risk huge fines. That way the company director size and price cars could have stayed ICE without risking the annual zero emission % targets too.
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Like a Nissan Leaf maybe?
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Like a Nissan Leaf maybe?
The perfect car. Just unfortunately so dull nobody knows if it’s a current model or went out of production five years ago.
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Like a Nissan Leaf maybe?
The perfect car. Just unfortunately so dull nobody knows if it’s a current model or went out of production five years ago.
If I was in the market for a small EV in the next few months, it’d be the new Renault 5. Competitively priced, it’s getting very good reviews, and IMHO the design is a really successful modern interpretation of the original R5. Renault aren’t afraid to be bold with their colour choices either with a bright green and yellow being offered - a refreshing change from the typical shades of blandness offered by most car manufacturers.
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Worth watching this..
Harry’s garage - fascinating summary on the politics behind the push for EVs, and where he thinks it’s going..
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhi7zldGjBo
I started watching that last weekend, got so far in and switched off after deciding I had nothing to relate to wealthy car collectors running £80k PHEV’s as family runabouts even if it is Harry whom I respect massively.
Read your post mid-week so decided to watch the whole vid when I had time.
Having properly watched it now, there are some really good points raised, particularly how disharmonious the rules are globally as regards to EV transition.
I’m certainly not one of those car lovers that derides EV’s. In fact I’d be keen to try one, so long as it fitted my needs and budget and wasn’t a jelly mould saloon or sodding SUV.
I have to agree with fredgroves, it’s all arse about face. Instead of focus on £100k cars only bought by MD’s to avoid tax and subsequently halving in value almost immediately as no private buyer would touch one with a barge pole, it should be smaller more affordable mass transport that real people can buy, which will actually have enough take up to make a difference to local emissions in built up areas.
Manufacturers should have hit the market with Renault 5 size cars (and very slightly larger) from the off, at Renault 5 type pricing, then there would never have been any need for manufacturers to have to buy credits or risk huge fines. That way the company director size and price cars could have stayed ICE without risking the annual zero emission % targets too.
Have a watch of his annual video where he goes through the costs of running his 30 odd vehicles- he very obviously doesn’t live in the real world.
But he does know the industry as well as anyone.
The interesting bit for me was his prediction as to when we’ll get to 100% participation in EVs- “ an awful long time “- 2050 he thinks- because much of the world isn’t playing and there’s consumer resistance.
He says people will be slower to change cars ( there’s already good evidence that is happening).
Agree with the comments on smaller, cheaper cars being more appropriate for electric ( as long as they become cheap enough)- that’s what I would like- a small, cheap electric car as a means of transport around town. But still enjoying the combustion engine on the open roads.
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People are slower to change cars because normal people have had their wages flatline, inflation has increased costs and finance is no longer cheap.
That's the truth, the last dozen years are over... Crunch after crunch myself and many others don't have the cash to burn on cars anymore.
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Yes, all true, Fred- but the uncertainty about the car industry is also a big factor.
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Yes, all true, Fred- but the uncertainty about the car industry is also a big factor.
For a lot of people in the UK its the lack of being able to home charge.... I am lucky, I have a driveway. Many of my colleagues do not.
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Yes, and the number of public charging points has hardly increased in the last 12 months!
“ stick to the Volvo, Max”