GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: jh_97 on 17 January 2024, 08:12
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Scanned my 7.5 GTI PP for the first time with my new OBD11, two faults found.
1 - B147918, Remote key 1 voltage too low. Does the car give you a warning when the key battery is low if you don't have keyless entry?
2 - C111204, Haldex clutch pump faulty (intermittent). Nothing showing on the car screens and haven't noticed anything while driving. Anyone else had this issue? Car is due its first service with me next month so can inform them then. Also still within extended warranty.
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1. Yes it will give you a warning in the dash central display.
2. Were you able to clear the code? if so, see does it come back after a few days. It doesn't sound serious as it hasnt thrown a CEL and is only intermittent. Was there a counter reference on how many times the fault was logged? Worth mentioning to the dealer when in for service, especially as still under warranty. Also, as yours is a 2018, has it had the haldex unit serviced. id get that done, and make sure they clean the gauze filter also. Theres plenty of threads on the subject on here.
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Thanks for the advice. Will try to clear the code later today and see if it comes back. Would be interesting to know if it comes back through normal day-to-day driving, or if it's only when it's being floored or cornered hard. Might have to wait till the weather improves to test fully though, managed to spin nearly 180 yesterday morning going over ice on a roundabout..... :shocked:
The diff has never been serviced according to the service history, although only on ~32k miles. I was going to wait till the next service as looking at £320 for the diff service alone. Will still be in warranty by the time that comes around. As you suggest though, might be worth doing it now.
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Thanks for the advice. Will try to clear the code later today and see if it comes back. Would be interesting to know if it comes back through normal day-to-day driving, or if it's only when it's being floored or cornered hard. Might have to wait till the weather improves to test fully though, managed to spin nearly 180 yesterday morning going over ice on a roundabout..... :shocked:
The diff has never been serviced according to the service history, although only on ~32k miles. I was going to wait till the next service as looking at £320 for the diff service alone. Will still be in warranty by the time that comes around. As you suggest though, might be worth doing it now.
I would definately do it now. A kind of sludge builds up on the gauze which will make the pump work harder and eventually fail, youll be looking at a new pump then which will be a lot more. I think most folk on here will tell you they service the Haldex system (oil and clean strainer) at least every 20k miles. If its never been done, your pump could be on the way out.
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Yeah sounds like it might be worth doing now, thanks. Just to double check, it's part of the DSG Oil and Filter service, right?
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I am not saying this is definitely your issue, but on my first Mk7 PP I bought back in 2015, the VW garage found the front diff was inoperable. It turned out to be the haldex pump electrics, which involved a new section of wiring loom being replaced, covered under warranty.
It then worked after that. I was never over impressed with the diff on that car, maybe that was down to the Bridgestones fitted? :)
It may be this, I would be surprised if enough sludge has built up in 30K miles to kill the pump. I am not saying that may not be the case.
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Yeah sounds like it might be worth doing now, thanks. Just to double check, it's part of the DSG Oil and Filter service, right?
No, its not included as part of the DSG Oil and Filter service. Its separate Haldex service. Some dealers will even tell you its sealed for life and doesnt need service, hence why i said "make sure they clean the gauze and filter housing, not just change the oil" :smiley:
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Hi, I wasnt aware that the GTI had the Haldex system, I thought this was only for the 4wd system.
I had an S3 previously which had the Haldex oil changed regularly.
I have a 2018 7.5 PP, so assume by the above messages that this will need doing too, looking at the history of the car, it doesnt look like it has ever been done and its on approx 36k now.
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Hi, I wasnt aware that the GTI had the Haldex system, I thought this was only for the 4wd system.
I had an S3 previously which had the Haldex oil changed regularly.
I have a 2018 7.5 PP, so assume by the above messages that this will need doing too, looking at the history of the car, it doesnt look like it has ever been done and its on approx 36k now.
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It certainly does, some ppl here call it the VAQ/e-diff etc. If it was my car id do it myself or at a good indy to make sure the filter housing/gauze was properly cleaned.
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Nice one, thanks for raising awareness to it.
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Nice one, thanks for raising awareness to it.
Your welcome :cool:
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Make sure you remove the pump and clean the small white gauze filter when its serviced, although FWD diff haldex filters are normally reasonably
clean, you should see a Golf R rear diff haldex filter!!
Loads of info here - https://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=289328.0 and https://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=288457.0
Oh and £320 for a diff service!!, i'd do them all day for that.
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Nice one, thanks for raising awareness to it.
Here here!
Oh and £320 for a diff service!!, i'd do them all day for that.
That was the price for the DSG oil change service (now up to £335...), which I thought would include the diff
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Diff service isn’t included as part of the service schedule and there’s always been some difference of opinion as to how often it should be done.
Every 3 years is, i think, the manufacturer’s recommendation- i think that’s probably unnecessary- unless you drive the car hard.
I’ve not heard reports of diff failure.
It isn’t expensive- I paid something like £80 when I got mine done-
I doubt they would’ve done any more than drain and refill.
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Will be interesting to see what they say/do, at least I have the fault code as justification for asking. They don't get funny if you tell them you've scanned yourself, do they..? Also hoping they're not gonna charge £100+ for their own diagnostic service as well....
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They won’t have a problem with you scanning.
They should scan for faults as part of the service, so shouldn’t charge more for doing that
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Hi, I wasnt aware that the GTI had the Haldex system, I thought this was only for the 4wd system.
I had an S3 previously which had the Haldex oil changed regularly.
I have a 2018 7.5 PP, so assume by the above messages that this will need doing too, looking at the history of the car, it doesnt look like it has ever been done and its on approx 36k now.
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It certainly does, some ppl here call it the VAQ/e-diff etc. If it was my car id do it myself or at a good indy to make sure the filter housing/gauze was properly cleaned.
The Gti PP doesn't have the Haldex system fitted, that is the four wheel drive system fitted to Quattro driven cars i.e. R's S3's and S4's etc. It does have a LSD system fitted that requires oil services at specified mileage intervals.
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The haldex system itself is basically the same system on FWD and 4WD.
One distributes the power left to right in the case of FWD and the other distributes power front to rear in 4WD.
Both systems have a haldex pump and clutch pack.
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Cleared the codes last night, will try and scan regularly to monitor it, and see if the way I drive has any impact
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Hi, I wasnt aware that the GTI had the Haldex system, I thought this was only for the 4wd system.
I had an S3 previously which had the Haldex oil changed regularly.
I have a 2018 7.5 PP, so assume by the above messages that this will need doing too, looking at the history of the car, it doesnt look like it has ever been done and its on approx 36k now.
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It certainly does, some ppl here call it the VAQ/e-diff etc. If it was my car id do it myself or at a good indy to make sure the filter housing/gauze was properly cleaned.
The Gti PP doesn't have the Haldex system fitted, that is the four wheel drive system fitted to Quattro driven cars i.e. R's S3's and S4's etc. It does have a LSD system fitted that requires oil services at specified mileage intervals.
they have a haldex pump and clutch pack. It has Haldex so you are incorrect
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Yep VAQ is effectively half a Haldex system and works in the same way - had mine done at year three service for around £120 at my dealer.
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Hi, I wasnt aware that the GTI had the Haldex system, I thought this was only for the 4wd system.
I had an S3 previously which had the Haldex oil changed regularly.
I have a 2018 7.5 PP, so assume by the above messages that this will need doing too, looking at the history of the car, it doesnt look like it has ever been done and its on approx 36k now.
[/quote
It certainly does, some ppl here call it the VAQ/e-diff etc. If it was my car id do it myself or at a good indy to make sure the filter housing/gauze was properly cleaned.
The Gti PP doesn't have the Haldex system fitted, that is the four wheel drive system fitted to Quattro driven cars i.e. R's S3's and S4's etc. It does have a LSD system fitted that requires oil services at specified mileage intervals.
they have a haldex pump and clutch pack. It has Haldex so you are incorrect
Hmm, every days a school day then, when I've been talking to my local VW dealer and local independents to get a price to change the oil, none of them called it a Haldex system just a LSD :smiley:
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My car was serviced at Lookers VW in Blackburn at 3 years (17961 Miles)
The invoice and service certificate says LSD Oil and Filter Change
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Cleared the codes last night, will try and scan regularly to monitor it, and see if the way I drive has any impact
Driven my 40 mile round commute today and scanned again when I got home. Low key battery fault has gone, but the diff fault has returned
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Re the Haldex/VAQ/LSD & the GTI-PP:-
Borg Warner who are the manufacturers of the unit, call it “Front Cross Differential Technology”, or “FXD”.
ERWIN, which is the official VAG workshop manuals, call it a “Front Differential Lock”, & in the “Self-study guides” they also refer to it as an “Electrohydraulic Front Differential Lock”.
Volkswagen Audi Group HQ in Germany, call it “Vorderachsquersperre” (VAQ), which translated from German to English means “Transversal Front Axle Locking”, or “Front Differential Lock” depending on the translation website used.
VW marketing who are not engineers & don’t talk to the engineering/mechanical depts. refer to it in the sales brochures as a “mechanical limited slip differential”.
Unfortunately, it is NOT a “mechanical limited slip differential”, & this has been the sole cause of huge amounts of misinformation & misunderstanding, all because they decided to “simplify & up-sell” the unit, thank you VW’s marketing dept.!
The VAQ unit is a highly modified Haldex unit which is fitted outside of the gearbox case & sits between the gearbox case & the driveshaft on the UK drivers side. It is an electro-hydraulic activated multi-plate clutch pack which locks up the existing "open" (basic) type differential in the gearbox case. It relies heavily on the data from the existing ABS/ASR/ESC sensors.
It can never be an "L.S.D.", as a Limited Slip Differential sits inside the gearbox case in place of your existing open/basic type differential. The term LSD has been around for decades since LSD's were invented.
Since 2013, in both the VW self-study guides & official workshop repair manuals, it has clearly stated that:- “The oil should be changed every 3 years regardless of the mileage”. The total quantity of oil in the FDL unit is 570ml +/– 30ml, the “change” quantity is approximately 0.4lt.
The electric pump which pumps the oil has had numerous failures, across all VAG brands & both applications, (FDL & AWD) as it’s the same pump part. This pump made for the Gen.V Borg Warner units might have just had a bad manufacturing batch, or a more serious design issue. It appears to be costing about £350 to fix if out of warranty
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Re the Haldex/VAQ/LSD & the GTI-PP:-
Borg Warner who are the manufacturers of the unit, call it “Front Cross Differential Technology”, or “FXD”.
ERWIN, which is the official VAG workshop manuals, call it a “Front Differential Lock”, & in the “Self-study guides” they also refer to it as an “Electrohydraulic Front Differential Lock”.
Volkswagen Audi Group HQ in Germany, call it “Vorderachsquersperre” (VAQ), which translated from German to English means “Transversal Front Axle Locking”, or “Front Differential Lock” depending on the translation website used.
VW marketing who are not engineers & don’t talk to the engineering/mechanical depts. refer to it in the sales brochures as a “mechanical limited slip differential”.
Unfortunately, it is NOT a “mechanical limited slip differential”, & this has been the sole cause of huge amounts of misinformation & misunderstanding, all because they decided to “simplify & up-sell” the unit, thank you VW’s marketing dept.!
The VAQ unit is a highly modified Haldex unit which is fitted outside of the gearbox case & sits between the gearbox case & the driveshaft on the UK drivers side. It is an electro-hydraulic activated multi-plate clutch pack which locks up the existing "open" (basic) type differential in the gearbox case. It relies heavily on the data from the existing ABS/ASR/ESC sensors.
It can never be an "L.S.D.", as a Limited Slip Differential sits inside the gearbox case in place of your existing open/basic type differential. The term LSD has been around for decades since LSD's were invented.
Since 2013, in both the VW self-study guides & official workshop repair manuals, it has clearly stated that:- “The oil should be changed every 3 years regardless of the mileage”. The total quantity of oil in the FDL unit is 570ml +/– 30ml, the “change” quantity is approximately 0.4lt.
The electric pump which pumps the oil has had numerous failures, across all VAG brands & both applications, (FDL & AWD) as it’s the same pump part. This pump made for the Gen.V Borg Warner units might have just had a bad manufacturing batch, or a more serious design issue. It appears to be costing about £350 to fix if out of warranty
This man speaks the truth. It can never be a LSD. :laugh:
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That’s an interesting and informative post, @golfdave.
I can understand the reasoning for some people suggesting it is “ sealed for life “
Doesn’t really make sense to spend around £100 every 3 years to service a part that costs £350 to fix - and your post suggests that failures may have been down to a faulty batch rather than poor maintenance.
I can understand the logic of regular engine oil changes- all that metal on metal movement, the oil going through heat/cold cycles and to protect the most expensive part of the car- the engine.
Washing salt off the bodywork during winter- there’s another massively important part of vehicle maintenance.
The rest, you can pretty much adopt an “ if it ain’t broke “ type approach - in my humble opinion.
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My servicing dealer steadfastly maintains that servicing and oils change for this component does not appear on any VW U.K. servicing job list.
I have to confess, the way I drive nowadays it’s less frequently that the feature will kick in and if that is the case maybe my oil and filter will be relatively “clean” anyway even after 5 years??
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My servicing dealer steadfastly maintains that servicing and oils change for this component does not appear on any VW U.K. servicing job list.
I have to confess, the way I drive nowadays it’s less frequently that the feature will kick in and if that is the case maybe my oil and filter will be relatively “clean” anyway even after 5 years??
Find a different servicing dealer, as its well known by now where in the VW service logs/tables the schedule is "hidden"...
Screengrab from the ERWIN service books....
(https://i.postimg.cc/xdZHFHyv/image.png) (https://postimg.cc/8Fhj77Yc)
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Thanks for that Golfdave.
Last year I asked my dealer about changing front diff oil and they insisted it was sealed for life. And a request about this seemed utterly novel to them.
Last week, armed with your evidence I spoke to them again about my forthcoming service.
They have come back to say that after referring to their senior tech who has done some investigation, they agree the oil should be changed and are going to do this. Should be done every 3 years!
The cost of £127 is not part of the “All In” deal though.
It’s all very strange.
I will just be glad to get it done.
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Had my mk7.5 245 performance pack from new till 79k FVWSH not one dealer ever mentioned the Diff service!
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Thanks for that Golfdave.
Last year I asked my dealer about changing front diff oil and they insisted it was sealed for life. And a request about this seemed utterly novel to them.
Last week, armed with your evidence I spoke to them again about my forthcoming service.
They have come back to say that after referring to their senior tech who has done some investigation, they agree the oil should be changed and are going to do this. Should be done every 3 years!
The cost of £127 is not part of the “All In” deal though.
It’s all very strange.
I will just be glad to get it done.
Glad it all worked out ok...
Just shows even now there are dealers where the senior tech still doesn't know his job & obviously doesn't read all the documents that they should do from VAG...the MK7 has only been out for 10yrs!!...
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Car got 5 yr svce yesterday, incl diff oil change.
The whole thing is bizarre. Last year they wouldn’t even acknowledge it.
Anyway, your evidence was v helpful, thank you.
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Car got 5 yr svce yesterday, incl diff oil change.
The whole thing is bizarre. Last year they wouldn’t even acknowledge it.
Anyway, your evidence was v helpful, thank you.
One of the reasons I started using a local Independent on my GTI’s 3rd Birthday.
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Service all booked for the 20th. Thankfully Horsham VW have agreed the diff should be serviced every 3 years, price quoted is ~£150. This hasn't been done on the car yet so might be the cause of the issue, will see if this resolves it. They offered alternatively to carry out an investigation and diagnostics before servicing to see if something else is faulty, at a cost of just over £100. Think I'll try the service first and see what happens with the fault code. My warranty doesn't cover servicible components, so anything diffy is off the table :sad:
Brake fluid change is also due, but they wouldn't price match anywhere else. They're charging £79 for it... A quick check on Halfords and Kwikfit and they charge £45-£50.
They also mentioned spark plugs are due every 4 years/40k miles, which also wasn't done by previous owner after 4 years. Again, can't imagine VW will be cheaper than anywhere else for this.
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I think you’re wasting your money. Swapping the oil is not going to solve the issue, changing the pump might. And 2 oil changes pays for 1 pump.
VW must be laughing, btw. We’re all insistent they do a job they were saying isn’t necessary.
They’ve worked it out- easier just to do the job than argue with the customer.
Take my money! 😂
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Hmmmmm….are we ever going to get a forum member’s concensus on this? Seems a very divisive issue indeed.
I suppose where I got to was to do one oil change half way through my ownership.
Hang on…..does that mean In am going to hang to the car for 10 years?
Well, all things considered I can’t see an alternative right now.
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Haha,
I’m being a bit mischievous tbh.
I ought to declare that I got my diff service done at 4 years- though I am sceptical about the need for it.
I run and use a 36 year old french car- there’s no end to the money I could throw at that car, but I’ve worked out what to do and what to leave!
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I think you’re wasting your money. Swapping the oil is not going to solve the issue, changing the pump might. And 2 oil changes pays for 1 pump.
Yeah the oil is unlikely to fix it, but they change the filter too which could just be clogged? My thinking was to see how that goes as it's due anyway, then book the diagnostic after if still needed. Although it's a good point regarding the cost of the pump. Would they replace the oil if a new pump is fitted anyway? Not sure on the layout of all the parts.
They have said later this afternoon that they'll match the prices on the VW website (lol), and diagnostics there is £60.
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Changing the oil and filter is very unlikely to sort the fault imho.
It’s not what I would do.
If the pump is not covered under warranty then there’s no hurry to get it investigated.
If you feel there’s a problem with performance, get the pump replaced for around £350? Obviously it would have fresh oil and filter too.
Otherwise just monitor it.
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Haven't noticed anything with performance, can still feel it working when cornering. Although I don't know how long the issue has been present as I only got the OBD11 fairly recently. I got the car inspected by the AA before buying and it wasn't picked up during their scan. It could have happened shortly after though and I've just gotten used to the diff not working fully.
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Scan tools pick up all sorts of irrelevant stuff. I wouldn’t worry about it, unless there’s a performance issue ( if it was a warranty component, you might approach it in a different way!)
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Car has been in to VW this morning. The initial diagnostic confirmed the fault code, but they require another two hours to fully determine what's wrong, quoting £156 per hour of labour..! :rolleyes:
Spoken to a local independant this morning to carry out the further investigation. They said it's not uncommon for the mechatronics unit controlling the pump to have issues for MY17 and 18 cars, but was fixed for MY19. The two options are likely to be replace the pump of course, or it can be sent away to be fixed, which should result in the fault never reoccurring.
Still unsure whether a replacement pump would be covered by the warranty given that the diff service has never been carried out. What's interesting is that the dealer I bought the car from serviced the car just before I bought it, but they didn't service the diff depiste it being overdue. I wonder if I have grounds to raise it with them, as if they'd serviced it the fault may never have appeared..? Anyone had any experience with this sort of thing?
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Still unsure whether a replacement pump would be covered by the warranty given that the diff service has never been carried out. What's interesting is that the dealer I bought the car from serviced the car just before I bought it, but they didn't service the diff depiste it being overdue. I wonder if I have grounds to raise it with them, as if they'd serviced it the fault may never have appeared..? Anyone had any experience with this sort of thing?
Cant hurt to raise it with them, thats what i'd be doing if it were me, could be a straight up yes or no, or we'll come to some sort of agreement perhaps??
Never serviced in accordance with the maufacturers service schedule and subsequently failed.
Although they will say not servicing it wont have caused the failure, and you cant say for certain it did. Stalemate.
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Diff fault iInvestigated today by a local indie. They found the pump had very little oil in it, less than 300ml and it should have best part of a 1L or something. No signs of any leaks and the filter was completely clean, so sounds like it's been low for a long time considering there's no record of it being serviced.
The indie managed to source some oil from a local Audi dealer, but apparently the oil is on a 12 month back order. Indie recommended replacing the pump, and if that doesn't work sending the ECU away to be investigated, but I'll see how it goes with the fresh oil in the correct quantity first..!
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When I changed my diff oil it took about 600ml IIRC.
Plenty of suppliers of Haldex fluid on ebay, genuine VW or Febi, although I was led to believe there's only 1 manufacturer of Haldex fluid.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/176274638781?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=d5qjDcgRSTi&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=YkBkVKNMRRy&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266502171456?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=pipn4v9hRni&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=YkBkVKNMRRy&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY