GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: EB2019 on 25 February 2023, 16:21
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Hi
I have a strange feeling my VAQ diff isn’t working, or my memory of it in my old Mk7 I have back in 2014-2016 isn’t correct (when I used to do track days in it).
Scenario 1
If I set individual mode to sport and everything else in normal (on a dry road). I can exit a roundabout with reasonable speed in 3rd gear and get the stability/traction light to flash. My understanding is the stability is intervening and managing the car with traction control etc. so can’t really see if the diff or the systems are controlling the car.
Scenario 2
If I set individual mode to sport and everything else in normal (on a dry road). Then a long press on the traction button to disable most of the stability system.
I can be in 2nd possibly
3rd gear on a dual carriageway on ramp (90deg soft radius curve) and it understeers to the outside of the corner hard accelerating and I have to lift otherwise I will hit the curb on the outside of the corner. I don’t remember it being like this in my old car which had much more bite and you really noticed it, but on this car its as if its off or disabled.
I have tried someone with VAG.com to see if there are any faults, and we found nothing in the main screen. With this in mind I’m concerned that if I take it to a dealer while its under warranty they will only plug it in as well.
Any other way to check it, or look at it on vag.com?
BTW it had a diff service on 3 year service which it called it ‘haldex service’ on the paperwork, but I’m assuming the correct oil was put in and not haldex and that's simply the terminology in the service system??
Thanks in advance
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I’m guessing the reference to Haldex Service is a generic naming based on the manufacturer name?
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Yeah that's was my thoughts too, just clutching at straws in case they put the wrong oil in? But I think it would have been noisy or caused a pump problem if it was wrong oil...
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Have you run a code reader to see if any faults appear?
I previously bought a 2013 PP with 17k miles, still under a years warranty. The car ran fine, but I was not over impressed with the diff performance, even when I fitted PS4's.
I took the car into VW for a service and examination before the warranty was due to expire.
I didn't have a code reader at the time, but it turns out the circuit board on the pump had packed up 2 weeks before I bought the car.
At the time VW replaced the diff electrical circuit and all was well.
Nothing came up on the dash, but they were able to tell me the date the fault started.
Try to run a fault code reader to see if asnything appears?
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VAQ diff oil and Haldex rear diff oil are the same oil.
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VAQ diff oil and Haldex rear diff oil are the same oil.
if that's the case it can't be the oil.
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Have you run a code reader to see if any faults appear?
I previously bought a 2013 PP with 17k miles, still under a years warranty. The car ran fine, but I was not over impressed with the diff performance, even when I fitted PS4's.
I took the car into VW for a service and examination before the warranty was due to expire.
I didn't have a code reader at the time, but it turns out the circuit board on the pump had packed up 2 weeks before I bought the car.
At the time VW replaced the diff electrical circuit and all was well.
Nothing came up on the dash, but they were able to tell me the date the fault started.
Try to run a fault code reader to see if asnything appears?
Thanks I wonder if mine has the same issue? I'm on PS5 so its not like they are ditch finders
Someone plugged it into vag.com for me not VW, but nothing was obvious. They cleared some codes, (not related more historic stuff like key fob battery etc).
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I wonder if the gauze filter has been cleaned out and the pump relearn carried out??
What happens with the R rear diff is that the filter gets that clogged up with debris the pump fails due to it having to work that much harder to pump fluid.
I must admit my front diff filter was clean compared to the R rear diff I serviced a few weeks earlier.
R rear diff haldex pump Before
(https://i.postimg.cc/CLWgH8b1/20220321-090200.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
R rear diff haldex pump After
(https://i.postimg.cc/jSPr8jhh/20220321-091553.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Indy I use told me that dealers rarely clean the filters and just change fluid - clearly his opinion and experience but it’s a possible?
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its not very old, 19 plate with 17k on the clock. Dealer sold, dealer serviced and car sold back to dealer before I bought it. I know mileage isn't always a good indicator but i would be surprised if its blocked, but not surprised that dealers wouldn't spend the time cleaning it.
I might talk to the Local VW dealer that will have no idea what i'm talking about and see if I can get them to look at it.
Can't wait... :rolleyes:
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If you know a fabricator they could make you a roller and you could try this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVr8N0X22pg
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Thks Bogwoppit
I found this info, and will see if I can get the car on vagcom again, perhaps give it a reset?
Perform a pump relearn on a VAQ eLSD
https://www.jcr-leeds.com/how-to-service-front-elsd-full-guide/
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I think a pump relearn is to be carried out after a filter clean.
This is so the pump control calibrates the power required to hit the target pressure.
Blocked filter = more power required due to the restriction.
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ok thanks Madstaff!
Is there a chance they didn't do this after the service last year? And that could cause it to not work correctly?
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IMO i highly doubt VW remove the pump, clean the filter and perform a pump relearn.
I don't think VW dealers even acknowledge a diff service is required every 3 years TBH.
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See other recent posts on this subject including my own recent experiences.
My dealer insists VAQ is a Borg Warner sealed for life item and does not appear on any service schedule.
Therefore they won’t touch front diffs unlike Haldex.
Their workshop techs confirm this.
As far as I’m concerned, they will continue to service the car and I will continue my VW extended warranty.
Maybe I’m wrong but “ if it ain’t broke, etc”
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I can see this is going to get messy at the dealer, great :rolleyes:
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Some good info in this thread https://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=288457.0
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IMO i highly doubt VW remove the pump, clean the filter and perform a pump relearn.
I don't think VW dealers even acknowledge a diff service is required every 3 years TBH.
Sorry I meant would they do a relearn reset after a fluid change? Or is it only when the pump is removed and filter cleaned?
thanks will have a read of the thread.
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I doubt it as there is no mention of doing a pump relearn after a fluid change in the workshop manual.
Pump relearn after pump or gauze filter clean.
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thanks all,
Its booked in Wednesday
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I find that mine is the same as you've described in the first post, my car is at 17K and 20 plate.
I'm currently putting it down to having the original P zeros on the car and the fact that the roads are either wet, cold or slippy. Those tyres really don't like to put the power down unless it's dry and warm!
I'll be fitting some PS4S in the summer and trying again.
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See other recent posts on this subject including my own recent experiences.
My dealer insists VAQ is a Borg Warner sealed for life item and does not appear on any service schedule.
Therefore they won’t touch front diffs unlike Haldex.
Their workshop techs confirm this.
As far as I’m concerned, they will continue to service the car and I will continue my VW extended warranty.
Maybe I’m wrong but “ if it ain’t broke, etc”
All that proves is that they haven't read the VW tech literature on the subject...
Borg Warner make the Haldex units & the front "VAQ/PP" is only a modified "rear/R" unit...
& VW do state the service intervals.....I'd post screen shots from the ERWIN books that I have, but this website doesn't like direct uploads...
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I’ve been through all the various posts and topics via Google and am aware of Erwin advice, etc but what can you do if the dealership says no?
As a matter of interest it would be good to take a poll of members who have a Performance to find out what the majority are aware of or have found in their own experience of this.
Have to say it’s all a bit bizarre, no?
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I’ve been through all the various posts and topics via Google and am aware of Erwin advice, etc but what can you do if the dealership says no?
Easy, three choices:-
1. DIY using the ERWIN books,
2. Show the ERWIN books to the dealership
3. Find a different dealership
:cool:
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Not terribly difficult to do DIY, you really need VCDS to perform a pump relearn though.
But then again I have access to a ramp.
I would recommend making sure you can get the fill plug loose first before dropping the oil out then finding you can't get new oil in!!
Removing the pump is straightforward, just be careful with the gauze filter and only nip the small Torx bolts up which secure the filter in place.
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I had my VAQ done last March at year three.
I have a yearly service which I've made sure now coincides with my MoT so all done at the same time.
I asked the nice young lady on the service desk who I seem to deal with every visit for it to be done, she didn't seem to have a problem with this and I think she understood as I'm pretty sure she also drives a performance VAG (Cupra I think), when I came to pick the car up she went over the invoice but when we got to the VAQ service we both looked at each other as it was listed as 'DSG service carried out as requested'.... car was booked in for first thing the next day to have diff done... only paid for the VAQ.
She showed me a copy of my car's digital service record (they only 'do' pdf's sent to my email - no paper) which has it listed.
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Took it to vw, and computer says no.
But on the plus side they washed it for no good reason, after I spent 3 days getting it how I want 2 months ago!
I'm sure the tatt sponges used will have put a load of scratches on it. will check at the weekend.
So not very productive.
Will try oil and pump filter cleaning along with seals and a relearn at some point.
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I find that mine is the same as you've described in the first post, my car is at 17K and 20 plate.
I'm currently putting it down to having the original P zeros on the car and the fact that the roads are either wet, cold or slippy. Those tyres really don't like to put the power down unless it's dry and warm!
I'll be fitting some PS4S in the summer and trying again.
I have to agree with Rich here, really not a great time to trying to diagnose this between summer tyres hating the cold and wet & greasy roads.
Leave it for two more months and try to look into it then, it's easy to convince yourself there's something wrong if you haven't used it in a while and the conditions are different (maybe the conditions are the same since you last tried it).
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Temps could definately be better, but I had used my previous mk7 with PS4's in light rain on track days and it still seemed to be better. Perhaps its just the last 4 cars were RWD inbetween my mk7 and this one?
I'm on PS5s now, which are ok, nothing special. When I tested it a week or so ago, it was sunny and dry 11 or 12 degrees, I had been driving 45 mins.
Thinking out loud,
The only other thing IIRC was my old MK7 2014 always seemed like the diff or throttle/power was steering angle dependant, so if you had a lot of steering angle it reduced the power and as you straigthened the steering it seemed to offer more power delivery. I had a look back over my old videos of track days and you can see it happen on corner exit. But the 7.5 doesn't seem to limit much power based on steering angle so it feels like its pushing much more, and I translated this to a failed diff controller or something and not perhaps a change in power delivery? it could be all in my head? :grin: :laugh: But I will clean the filter and relearn anyway.
But as I say coming from rwd for a good few years probably plays a part in the heightened sense of understeer
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Maybe try to find another local GT PP owner and compare cars. You say PS5 are nothing special, although I haven;t tried the 5, surely they have to be up there as a benchmark tyre on which to base performance of your diff on the road?
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You say PS5 are nothing special, although I haven;t tried the 5, surely they have to be up there as a benchmark tyre on which to base performance of your diff on the road?
Yes probably, but to clarify the 'nothing special' comment, the PS5 offer high grip and comfort, but I feel they lack a sense of what the car is doing. PS5's have very large gaps in the outer tread blocks compared to GYF1 ASM 5 for example, which may be one of the causes especially when cornering harder. I picked them for grip and comfort for the 1st replacement set (car still had original tyres on when I bought it) so not complaining, but they aren't the last word in feedback. The lighter wheels and discs I now have do make it more sprightly, but the next set of tyres will be more sport orientated.
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You say PS5 are nothing special, although I haven;t tried the 5, surely they have to be up there as a benchmark tyre on which to base performance of your diff on the road?
Yes probably, but to clarify the 'nothing special' comment, the PS5 offer high grip and comfort, but I feel they lack a sense of what the car is doing. PS5's have very large gaps in the outer tread blocks compared to GYF1 ASM 5 for example, which may be one of the causes especially when cornering harder. I picked them for grip and comfort for the 1st replacement set (car still had original tyres on when I bought it) so not complaining, but they aren't the last word in feedback. The lighter wheels and discs I now have do make it more sprightly, but the next set of tyres will be more sport orientated.
Asymmetric 6 are a more sporty feeling tyre as are the Bridgestone Sport. Tyrereviews tests over the last couple of years have said the Michelin isn't the most sporty tyre and yet every man and his dog continues to rave about then 🤷
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Asymmetric 6 are a more sporty feeling tyre as are the Bridgestone Sport. Tyrereviews tests over the last couple of years have said the Michelin isn't the most sporty tyre and yet every man and his dog continues to rave about then 🤷
I rave about the Michelins as they are a brilliant tyre (PS4S, not tried any others) as evidenced by all the great reviews. I'm not saying though that it's not possible there are better tyres but I don't have the luxury of trying lots of different ones so I can make an informed choice. On my second set now and would happily go for another set. Nearly went for the Goodyears this time but I got the PS4Ss cheaper and I didn't want the gamble...
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Asymmetric 6 are a more sporty feeling tyre as are the Bridgestone Sport. Tyrereviews tests over the last couple of years have said the Michelin isn't the most sporty tyre and yet every man and his dog continues to rave about then 🤷
I rave about the Michelins as they are a brilliant tyre (PS4S, not tried any others) as evidenced by all the great reviews. I'm not saying though that it's not possible there are better tyres but I don't have the luxury of trying lots of different ones so I can make an informed choice. On my second set now and would happily go for another set. Nearly went for the Goodyears this time but I got the PS4Ss cheaper and I didn't want the gamble...
they are a good tyre but when you look at all the reviews now they all seem to say the same thing. Less sporty feedback than others. I had PS4s and thought they were too soft on the sidewalls. Good job we have plenty of choice 👍
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Returning to this thread/issue after the temps have picked up a bit, but still certain the car isn't how my old PP was. I then came across a thread about obdeleven and VAQ increased traction settings (Lock Electronics 32>Adaption>Acoustic Measure, Wiring Logic>increased traction). I guess my car might be in the standard setting, and my old PP was in the increased traction setting?
Anyone got experience with this? with either OBDeleven of Vagcom?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xlZ6gghqGY
https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/index.php?threads/definitive-vaq-and-xds-settings-in-obdeleven-vcds.377816/
https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/501808-vrs-245-vaq-increased-traction-mode/