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Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: AGB on 23 January 2023, 16:01

Title: MKI to MKVII
Post by: AGB on 23 January 2023, 16:01
Came across an interesting site recently called Carsized.com (https://www.carsized.com/en/)

Quite enlightening having a play with generational sizes and looking at how the form of cars has changed.

Below is a MKI Golf sized relative to a MKVII. If you want to see a vehicle dwarfed, pit a Fiat 500 from the 1960's to a GMC Yukon, Cadillac Escalade, Hummer EV or Audi Q8!

There are some cars where perception of size is determined by the interior feel. Most people think that the Cayman is a lot smaller than a modern 911 but there is very little in it.

(https://i.postimg.cc/CLRRb94Y/Screenshot-2023-01-23-at-15-54-03.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: Yusee on 23 January 2023, 16:29
It amazes me that a mini is still badged “ mini”
The mini countryman is a tank
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: EB2019 on 23 January 2023, 19:07
^^ its practically Qashqai size

My mk1 fitted in my garage with the engine on a stand in front of it, you could work on the whole car, the mk7 I have to move about just to change a wheel on one side.
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: SRGTD on 23 January 2023, 20:29
@AGB; that is an interesting website. Just spent a while comparing different cars.

I have a 1980’s ‘standard’ size single garage and my 2020 current shape Polo GTI+ fits and I’m able to get in and out of the car but there’s not too much space to spare (I’ve got padding on the garage wall so I don’t damage the edge of the driver’s door). I also had a mk5 and mk6 Golf in the past, and it was a bit of a tight squeeze getting in and out of those cars in the garage.

Cars really have grown in size over the years; I remember reading that the VW up! isn’t much smaller than the mk1 Golf :shocked:. My Polo GTI+ is a B segment sized car and is pretty much the same size as a mk4 Golf, which was considered to be a C segment sized car in its day.

Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: Exonian on 23 January 2023, 22:33
Good find AGB.
That must’ve taken a bit of work to collate.
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: AGB on 23 January 2023, 23:34
@AGB; that is an interesting website. Just spent a while comparing different cars.

I have a 1980’s ‘standard’ size single garage and my 2020 current shape Polo GTI+ fits and I’m able to get in and out of the car but there’s not too much space to spare (I’ve got padding on the garage wall so I don’t damage the edge of the driver’s door). I also had a mk5 and mk6 Golf in the past, and it was a bit of a tight squeeze getting in and out of those cars in the garage.

Cars really have grown in size over the years; I remember reading that the VW up! isn’t much smaller than the mk1 Golf :shocked:. My Polo GTI+ is a B segment sized car and is pretty much the same size as a mk4 Golf, which was considered to be a C segment sized car in its day.

I must confess to having spent longer on it than I expected!  :grin:

I've always thought the Polo isn't far off the size of a MKI Golf. When I've had a Polo as a loaner from the dealer, it has always felt bigger than it looks. Other cars shrink around you even though they're the same dimensions.

We're kindred spirits, I have a very small margin of error to get the cars in the garage and have a wall bumper as well as marker strip to align. It's like a roll of sticky 400 grit sandpaper in black/yellow hazard pattern. Added some to the wall for different cars because if they have parking sensors, they go wild but I've gotten used to not having them on the cars I drive. I'd recommend the hazard tape - makes it easy to see and align the cars in mirrors. Ended up cutting a little extra to give me stop marks which align to the position of the wing mirror.

(https://i.postimg.cc/RZ23YL4k/Screenshot-2023-01-23-at-23-10-57.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://i.postimg.cc/J7Ks8LRc/Screenshot-2023-01-23-at-23-10-31.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w3yq5ny7)
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: AGB on 23 January 2023, 23:38
Good find AGB.
That must’ve taken a bit of work to collate.

No doubt but once the comparison engine is built, loading records and an image from a database table probably isn't that difficult. Ensuring the source data was accurate was probably a pain in someone's life. I've been impressed with how comprehensive it is - 860K+ comparison combinations for car models since 1908!
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: sjw on 24 January 2023, 10:16
Came across an interesting site recently called Carsized.com (https://www.carsized.com/en/)

Quite enlightening having a play with generational sizes and looking at how the form of cars has changed.

Below is a MKI Golf sized relative to a MKVII. If you want to see a vehicle dwarfed, pit a Fiat 500 from the 1960's to a GMC Yukon, Cadillac Escalade, Hummer EV or Audi Q8!

There are some cars where perception of size is determined by the interior feel. Most people think that the Cayman is a lot smaller than a modern 911 but there is very little in it.

(https://i.postimg.cc/CLRRb94Y/Screenshot-2023-01-23-at-15-54-03.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

I like this website, used it quite a lot when I was trying to decide if I wanted to change my GTI, to try and get an idea of what I thought might feel "too big".
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: EB2019 on 24 January 2023, 10:49
@AGB; that is an interesting website. Just spent a while comparing different cars.

I have a 1980’s ‘standard’ size single garage and my 2020 current shape Polo GTI+ fits and I’m able to get in and out of the car but there’s not too much space to spare (I’ve got padding on the garage wall so I don’t damage the edge of the driver’s door). I also had a mk5 and mk6 Golf in the past, and it was a bit of a tight squeeze getting in and out of those cars in the garage.

Cars really have grown in size over the years; I remember reading that the VW up! isn’t much smaller than the mk1 Golf :shocked:. My Polo GTI+ is a B segment sized car and is pretty much the same size as a mk4 Golf, which was considered to be a C segment sized car in its day.

I must confess to having spent longer on it than I expected!  :grin:

I've always thought the Polo isn't far off the size of a MKI Golf. When I've had a Polo as a loaner from the dealer, it has always felt bigger than it looks. Other cars shrink around you even though they're the same dimensions.

We're kindred spirits, I have a very small margin of error to get the cars in the garage and have a wall bumper as well as marker strip to align. It's like a roll of sticky 400 grit sandpaper in black/yellow hazard pattern. Added some to the wall for different cars because if they have parking sensors, they go wild but I've gotten used to not having them on the cars I drive. I'd recommend the hazard tape - makes it easy to see and align the cars in mirrors. Ended up cutting a little extra to give me stop marks which align to the position of the wing mirror.

(https://i.postimg.cc/RZ23YL4k/Screenshot-2023-01-23-at-23-10-57.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://i.postimg.cc/J7Ks8LRc/Screenshot-2023-01-23-at-23-10-31.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w3yq5ny7)

Is that a GT4?
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: SRGTD on 24 January 2023, 11:03
I've always thought the Polo isn't far off the size of a MKI Golf. When I've had a Polo as a loaner from the dealer, it has always felt bigger than it looks. Other cars shrink around you even though they're the same dimensions.

We're kindred spirits, I have a very small margin of error to get the cars in the garage and have a wall bumper as well as marker strip to align. It's like a roll of sticky 400 grit sandpaper in black/yellow hazard pattern. Added some to the wall for different cars because if they have parking sensors, they go wild but I've gotten used to not having them on the cars I drive. I'd recommend the hazard tape - makes it easy to see and align the cars in mirrors. Ended up cutting a little extra to give me stop marks which align to the position of the wing mirror.

Seeing your garage, I think I need to go out in the cold and clean / tidy mine :grin:.

Quite a few people I’ve spoken to are surprised at the size of the current Polo. Here it is compared to the mk4 Golf. Most of the Golf’s extra size is in the length of the bumpers rather than the actual car body. The Polo is also wider than the mk4 Golf.

(https://i.postimg.cc/VNgnd5pz/9-B52-F192-3-D83-49-FD-BFBC-78-A1877-DD69-B.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://i.postimg.cc/G38q9wP6/1701134-B-27-AA-4-C08-AB87-D691245-E3-FF2.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: symonh2000 on 24 January 2023, 14:05
People say that cars have grown because of safety reasons. I don't agree, otherwise we wouldn't have small cars.

I would like to see cars getting smaller and lighter again personally but the current trend of buying the biggest SUV that you can goes against that.
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: Exonian on 24 January 2023, 14:55
I couldn’t agree more symonh2000

Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: SRGTD on 24 January 2023, 17:42
People say that cars have grown because of safety reasons. I don't agree, otherwise we wouldn't have small cars.

I would like to see cars getting smaller and lighter again personally but the current trend of buying the biggest SUV that you can goes against that.
I couldn’t agree more symonh2000

Me too. One of the most fun cars I owned was a 1989 Vauxhall Nova GTE. Now that was small and pretty basic with few creature comforts (it had manual wind up windows :grin:), but it was as light as a feather and felt really fast, even though it was only around 100bhp. Pretty poor safety-wise by today’s standards though.
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: ar899 on 24 January 2023, 19:10
Huge electric SUVs seems to be the go to for the chattering classes. Leaving aside the EV argument, they take up alot of road and parking space adding to congestion. I've pretty much always driven small cars though potentially moving to Golf sized only because of the motorway driving I do.
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: symonh2000 on 24 January 2023, 21:38
One of my daughters teachers has just gone from a Mercedes CLK to a huge Landrover discovery.

It is quite entertaining watching her try to manouver it around the school car park (which is quite small)

Totally unnecessary IMO, it seems to me that larger SUV's are nothing more than a status symbol for some. They cannot be for driving pleasure as they are just too big and heavy.
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: Rudedog on 25 January 2023, 09:48
Quite agree.... if I had to give up my Golf sized car I'd probably go down to an Up! GTi.... not bigger, nothing worse than getting back to your car in the supermarket carpark only to find a big SUV or wide EV's on either side.
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: AGB on 26 January 2023, 15:37
@AGB; that is an interesting website. Just spent a while comparing different cars.

I have a 1980’s ‘standard’ size single garage and my 2020 current shape Polo GTI+ fits and I’m able to get in and out of the car but there’s not too much space to spare (I’ve got padding on the garage wall so I don’t damage the edge of the driver’s door). I also had a mk5 and mk6 Golf in the past, and it was a bit of a tight squeeze getting in and out of those cars in the garage.

Cars really have grown in size over the years; I remember reading that the VW up! isn’t much smaller than the mk1 Golf :shocked:. My Polo GTI+ is a B segment sized car and is pretty much the same size as a mk4 Golf, which was considered to be a C segment sized car in its day.

I must confess to having spent longer on it than I expected!  :grin:

I've always thought the Polo isn't far off the size of a MKI Golf. When I've had a Polo as a loaner from the dealer, it has always felt bigger than it looks. Other cars shrink around you even though they're the same dimensions.

We're kindred spirits, I have a very small margin of error to get the cars in the garage and have a wall bumper as well as marker strip to align. It's like a roll of sticky 400 grit sandpaper in black/yellow hazard pattern. Added some to the wall for different cars because if they have parking sensors, they go wild but I've gotten used to not having them on the cars I drive. I'd recommend the hazard tape - makes it easy to see and align the cars in mirrors. Ended up cutting a little extra to give me stop marks which align to the position of the wing mirror.


Is that a GT4?

Yep.
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: AGB on 26 January 2023, 15:45
One of my daughters teachers has just gone from a Mercedes CLK to a huge Landrover discovery.

It is quite entertaining watching her try to manouver it around the school car park (which is quite small)

Totally unnecessary IMO, it seems to me that larger SUV's are nothing more than a status symbol for some. They cannot be for driving pleasure as they are just too big and heavy.

I've seen the hapless owners trying to move them round tight car parks.

Encountered this wonderful demonstration of the behaviour I've come to expect of these types of vehicles only this last weekend:

(https://i.postimg.cc/vHMf3qFq/Whats-App-Image-2023-01-22-at-22-43-14.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LhCJsVsL)

Comes as no surprise that a total of 3 people alighted both vehicles.

They were so big that they couldn't turn into the bays and if they could, they would have blocked half of one of the entry/exit lanes.
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: Exonian on 26 January 2023, 18:32
Quite agree.... if I had to give up my Golf sized car I'd probably go down to an Up! GTi.... not bigger, nothing worse than getting back to your car in the supermarket carpark only to find a big SUV or wide EV's on either side.

I’ve often considered trading the Golf for an up! GTI or Mini EV, probably far more fun to drive and just as well built, if not better.

I always try and park at work in an end space with my wheels on the outside line to reduce the chance of door dents from careless arses. Every bloody day I find an SUV crammed in to the neighbouring spot, nose in (because they can’t reverse their tanks into bays) with its wheels on the white line nearest to my car.
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: AGB on 26 January 2023, 19:23
Quite agree.... if I had to give up my Golf sized car I'd probably go down to an Up! GTi.... not bigger, nothing worse than getting back to your car in the supermarket carpark only to find a big SUV or wide EV's on either side.

I’ve often considered trading the Golf for an up! GTI or Mini EV, probably far more fun to drive and just as well built, if not better.

I always try and park at work in an end space with my wheels on the outside line to reduce the chance of door dents from careless arses. Every bloody day I find an SUV crammed in to the neighbouring spot, nose in (because they can’t reverse their tanks into bays) with its wheels on the white line nearest to my car.

I know an increasing number of people with a little Up GTI. All of them absolutely adore them. Without exception.
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: ar899 on 26 January 2023, 21:16
One of my daughters teachers has just gone from a Mercedes CLK to a huge Landrover discovery.

It is quite entertaining watching her try to manouver it around the school car park (which is quite small)

Totally unnecessary IMO, it seems to me that larger SUV's are nothing more than a status symbol for some. They cannot be for driving pleasure as they are just too big and heavy.

I've seen the hapless owners trying to move them round tight car parks.

Encountered this wonderful demonstration of the behaviour I've come to expect of these types of vehicles only this last weekend:

(https://i.postimg.cc/vHMf3qFq/Whats-App-Image-2023-01-22-at-22-43-14.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LhCJsVsL)

Comes as no surprise that a total of 3 people alighted both vehicles.

They were so big that they couldn't turn into the bays and if they could, they would have blocked half of one of the entry/exit lanes.

Hey, look at me - I've got 4WD and I can park on the grass.
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: AGB on 26 January 2023, 22:37

The Audi reversed over the modest 'Please don't park on the grass' sign because it wasn't big enough but more likely because he didn't give a..
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: Yusee on 01 February 2023, 13:24
A modern “ mini” parked next to my 80s supermini this morning and I couldn’t resist a quick pic-

(https://i.postimg.cc/8zhJG25f/E913-DB13-2-E12-4-EAE-B528-4-A214-B13-CA7-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w1jTcbD9)


They’re probably decent cars. I just hate that they’re called “ mini”. Because they really aren’t.
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: sjw on 01 February 2023, 13:58
A modern “ mini” parked next to my 80s supermini this morning and I couldn’t resist a quick pic-

(https://i.postimg.cc/8zhJG25f/E913-DB13-2-E12-4-EAE-B528-4-A214-B13-CA7-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w1jTcbD9)


They’re probably decent cars. I just hate that they’re called “ mini”. Because they really aren’t.

I assume you've posted this photo elsewhere seeing as you've obscured the plate... because the first half is in your signature lol
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: Yusee on 01 February 2023, 14:06
Oh, haha, thanks sjw. I’ll sort that (if I can be bothered)
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: Sootchucker on 01 February 2023, 14:33
Of course whilst we all fondly remember the smaller lighter cars of yesteryear, I don't think I'd like to have a major accident in one today. Saw this over on Facebook recently. Car rolled then hit the trees and amazingly even for a "mini" the driver (whilst battered and very sore), walked away from this accident. Not sure we could say the same if he was in an 80's Nova, Fiesta, Escort etc ?

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52662206437_bbe111dec0_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oezzfv)
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: AGB on 01 February 2023, 14:37
A modern “ mini” parked next to my 80s supermini this morning and I couldn’t resist a quick pic-

(https://i.postimg.cc/8zhJG25f/E913-DB13-2-E12-4-EAE-B528-4-A214-B13-CA7-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w1jTcbD9)


They’re probably decent cars. I just hate that they’re called “ mini”. Because they really aren’t.

I forgot how large the Pug was.  :grin:

Mini is just a brand now. Fiat have something similar in 500 money that looks like it has blimped up. I only know because one pulled up next to me at the lights and I had to look up not across or down!
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: TurboTrev on 01 February 2023, 18:00
Quite agree.... if I had to give up my Golf sized car I'd probably go down to an Up! GTi.... not bigger, nothing worse than getting back to your car in the supermarket carpark only to find a big SUV or wide EV's on either side.

I’ve often considered trading the Golf for an up! GTI or Mini EV, probably far more fun to drive and just as well built, if not better.

I always try and park at work in an end space with my wheels on the outside line to reduce the chance of door dents from careless arses. Every bloody day I find an SUV crammed in to the neighbouring spot, nose in (because they can’t reverse their tanks into bays) with its wheels on the white line nearest to my car.

I know an increasing number of people with a little Up GTI. All of them absolutely adore them. Without exception.

If they only did it with a dsg gearbox.
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: Exonian on 01 February 2023, 18:08
A hefty DSG to completely wreck the experience with its dim witted TCU.
Nah.
Those ‘boxes belong in big heavy stuff.
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: TurboTrev on 01 February 2023, 18:41
A hefty DSG to completely wreck the experience with its dim witted TCU.
Nah.
Those ‘boxes belong in big heavy stuff.

I haven't driven one, but the box is available on other model Polos, so presumably it must work okay?
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: Yusee on 01 February 2023, 18:42
A hefty DSG to completely wreck the experience with its dim witted TCU.
Nah.
Those ‘boxes belong in big heavy stuff.

Exactly. DSG is for Seat Alhambras.

The thread is a lament at the demise of the small, light, agile, engaging motor car.

Even the makers of the mini and the fiat 500 can’t be bothered anymore- they’re making the tanks that most people want. Shame.
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: Adam T7 on 01 February 2023, 18:45
One of my daughters teachers has just gone from a Mercedes CLK to a huge Landrover discovery.

It is quite entertaining watching her try to manouver it around the school car park (which is quite small)

Totally unnecessary IMO, it seems to me that larger SUV's are nothing more than a status symbol for some. They cannot be for driving pleasure as they are just too big and heavy.

I've seen the hapless owners trying to move them round tight car parks.

Encountered this wonderful demonstration of the behaviour I've come to expect of these types of vehicles only this last weekend:

(https://i.postimg.cc/vHMf3qFq/Whats-App-Image-2023-01-22-at-22-43-14.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LhCJsVsL)

Comes as no surprise that a total of 3 people alighted both vehicles.

They were so big that they couldn't turn into the bays and if they could, they would have blocked half of one of the entry/exit lanes.

Hey, look at me - I've got 4WD and I can park on the grass.


In the interest of balance, I owned 2 Discoveries for 14 years in total. Off road (not often) and in snow and bad weather (often) they were simply superb. Taking kids stuff to Uni, taking dog in his cage, moving fridges and assorted furniture, not a problem.
Sold the last D4 in 2018 and got the GTI as needed to do none of the above any more and they are seriously expensive to maintain and run.
The image is also a bit sh*t.
Large EV’s are a necessity if they need anything resembling a decent range as the batteries are a bit large and heavy😂
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: Exonian on 01 February 2023, 19:13
A hefty DSG to completely wreck the experience with its dim witted TCU.
Nah.
Those ‘boxes belong in big heavy stuff.

I haven't driven one, but the box is available on other model Polos, so presumably it must work okay?

The box works fine for what it’s designed for but unless in (jerky, unpredictable in anything other than flat out driving ) “sport mode” it changes up a gear very early in normal give and take driving, which works against the ethos of the car. The 115PS engine itself I’m very familiar with and it needs to be revved quite a bit higher than the 2.0 motors to get the turbo on boost.
It’s not the fault of the gearbox designers, it’s a legislation thing (emissions).
The 1.0 GTI engine is a peppy thing that works perfectly with a manual box in the lightweight up! to give it its character, but I really think a DSG would dumb it all down too much unless you’re really ‘on it’.

A 1.0 TSI DSG Polo is a different beast and the type of people who would buy one aren’t really the same clientele as an up! GTI.

Personal opinion mind you and as ever I’d love to be proven wrong.

A 115bhp E-up! with GTI interior would float my boat!
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: Yusee on 01 February 2023, 22:57
Of course whilst we all fondly remember the smaller lighter cars of yesteryear, I don't think I'd like to have a major accident in one today. Saw this over on Facebook recently. Car rolled then hit the trees and amazingly even for a "mini" the driver (whilst battered and very sore), walked away from this accident. Not sure we could say the same if he was in an 80's Nova, Fiesta, Escort etc ?

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52662206437_bbe111dec0_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oezzfv)

I’d like to argue that modern cars encourage risky driving by unskilled drivers, but I think the graph speaks for itself.

(https://i.postimg.cc/dQ4FgwKS/58-AB9-FEB-7579-4168-9-D55-AD478-E5-A6-DAA.png) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: SRGTD on 01 February 2023, 23:12
Of course whilst we all fondly remember the smaller lighter cars of yesteryear, I don't think I'd like to have a major accident in one today. Saw this over on Facebook recently. Car rolled then hit the trees and amazingly even for a "mini" the driver (whilst battered and very sore), walked away from this accident. Not sure we could say the same if he was in an 80's Nova, Fiesta, Escort etc ?

I’d like to argue that modern cars encourage risky driving by unskilled drivers, but I think the graph speaks for itself.

(https://i.postimg.cc/dQ4FgwKS/58-AB9-FEB-7579-4168-9-D55-AD478-E5-A6-DAA.png) (https://postimages.org/)

It’d also be interesting to see a graph or data showing the ratio of deaths to the total number of vehicles on the road. IMHO would be quite a powerful statistic in illustrating how much vehicle safety has improved over the years.
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: Yusee on 01 February 2023, 23:22
Yes exactly. Busier roads, more cars- yet far fewer deaths
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: Adam T7 on 02 February 2023, 07:53
Speaking as someone who was a gnats dick away from killing himself in a 1972 Triumph 1500 TC as a stupid 19 year old back in 1983 I concur.
I flattened the steering wheel with my head and the clutch / break peddles smashed my legs. I would have walked away from that in an airbag / restraint system / crumple zone equipped modern car.
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: AGB on 02 February 2023, 08:43
A hefty DSG to completely wreck the experience with its dim witted TCU.
Nah.
Those ‘boxes belong in big heavy stuff.

The fun is in the lightness and engagement.
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: AGB on 02 February 2023, 09:12
Of course whilst we all fondly remember the smaller lighter cars of yesteryear, I don't think I'd like to have a major accident in one today. Saw this over on Facebook recently. Car rolled then hit the trees and amazingly even for a "mini" the driver (whilst battered and very sore), walked away from this accident. Not sure we could say the same if he was in an 80's Nova, Fiesta, Escort etc ?

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52662206437_bbe111dec0_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oezzfv)

I don't think I'd like to have a major accident in anything at all to be honest!  :laugh:

Cars are safer than they've ever been and accidents do look more dramatic because of the physics of crumple zones but I think a reminder of one's own mortality might help with the invincibility complex that some idiots on the road seem to have when they're behind the wheel. You certainly felt more at one with what was going on in older cars but they didn't have as much power either.

I suspect we'll see some spectacular accidents with electric as you don't have the same interaction and indicators of speed and when the market opens up and the true idiots arrive.

It is possible to make smaller cars with modern safety and still achieve high NCAP figures but sadly, the desire for these type of cars doesn't fit prevailing tastes, manufacturer design aesthetics or production efficiency.

Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: Sootchucker on 02 February 2023, 11:48
That's a very important point AGB, the quietness and comfort of modern cars with all it's safety systems, does lead to a disconnect with speed at which you are travelling. Going back just 22 years, I remember when my wife got her first Renault Clio, it had airbags etc, but when you went on the motorway, you knew when you were doing 70mph, as not only did the road and wind noise and the engine complaining it was going too fast tell you, when you were overtaken by a 38 tonne HGV, you knew about it as the side draft use to blow the car all over the road.

Fast forward to today and my wife's current Polo Blue GT (which itself is nearly 7 years old), is a completely different beast and travelling at 70mph seems like you were doing 50mph in the Clio, and it's much more planted to the road. It's really easy to speed in modern cars if you are not paying attention. I mean the little Polo is capable of over 130mph - in a Polo (and it's not even the GTI) !
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: AGB on 02 February 2023, 16:37
That's a very important point AGB, the quietness and comfort of modern cars with all it's safety systems, does lead to a disconnect with speed at which you are travelling. Going back just 22 years, I remember when my wife got her first Renault Clio, it had airbags etc, but when you went on the motorway, you knew when you were doing 70mph, as not only did the road and wind noise and the engine complaining it was going too fast tell you, when you were overtaken by a 38 tonne HGV, you knew about it as the side draft use to blow the car all over the road.

Fast forward to today and my wife's current Polo Blue GT (which itself is nearly 7 years old), is a completely different beast and travelling at 70mph seems like you were doing 50mph in the Clio, and it's much more planted to the road. It's really easy to speed in modern cars if you are not paying attention. I mean the little Polo is capable of over 130mph - in a Polo (and it's not even the GTI) !

Well, blue is a fast colour so you need to factor that in as well!  :grin: I do know what you mean.

I borrowed a Taycan from my dealer a while ago now and they'd thrown the kitchen sink at it as their demonstrator. It had an additional pack which included supplemental insulation and sound insulating glass. It was like wearing noise cancelling headphones in the cabin. I turned off the warp speed sound creator and started playing this guessing game with the speed realising how much I relied on interaction with the car and other cues. At best, I was 10mph out but I ended up spending a lot of time watching my speedo to keep my speed in check.

Don't get me wrong, superb car and probably the best cabin of any car I've ever been in from a luxury and comfort perspective but a moment's inattention and you're into points. Or find yourself without sufficient stopping distance and into the back of the car in front... 
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: Yusee on 02 February 2023, 21:21
I wonder to what extent the falling death rate is down to the massive improvements in tyre technology and braking systems, rather than to how well cars perform in a crash.

Speed limits haven’t changed but the stopping power and roadholding of modern cars is on a completely different level.

I remember a high speed tyre blowout on the M40 in a VW passat in 1994. I managed to steer the car to the hard shoulder but it was a pretty frightening moment. I don’t think tyres do that these days? Certainly hasn’t happened to me since then.

My 205’s on limit handling is quite different on modern PS3s than it was on 1990s tyres. Far more secure.


Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: Guzzle on 02 February 2023, 21:43
I would think seatbelt legislation and airbags would both be significant factors in falling death rates.

I can also say many of the roads local to me have lower speed limits than they did 20 or so years ago.
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: Yusee on 02 February 2023, 21:58
My point was you would have to be driving like an absolute ar5e to seriously crash a modem car, not necessarily the case 20 years ago , the good old days when a slight misjudgment on a cold wet surface and you’re toast.
Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: symonh2000 on 02 February 2023, 22:16
You could argue that the fact modern cars are harder to crash has been cancelled out by the increased number of them on the roads.

Title: Re: MKI to MKVII
Post by: Exonian on 02 February 2023, 22:34
… and maybe the fact half the driving population aren’t sitting behind the wheel pissed these days.