GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: clubsport on 25 June 2021, 17:31
-
Steve Sutcliffe drives all mark 1-8 GTi's with a fairly predictable conclusion? :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-agUJZsUle4
-
It’s interesting that despite all the online reviews and owners saying the handling is slightly better on the MK8’s, he said he thought the MK7’s chassis and handling doing were the best ?
-
Drove a mk1 in Germany in 1978 while living there and it really felt like nothing I had driven before and still remember the experience. Could not afford one though! Eventually bought a mk3 escort efi 10 years later that handled well with Bilsteins. The mk 6 gti sits lower on standard suspension than the mk7 but driving both regularly the mk 7.5 handles better. Can't comment on the mk8 but also found his judgement on handling interesting.
-
Handling is subjective as such, just because a car has more mechanical grip and can corner faster, it may not actually be the better handling car of it does not communicate it's responses back to the driver giving them the ability to react to that information.
While driving the Mk8 in the video Sutcliffe highlights it's capabilities, but lack of communication comparing the steering response to a video game.
He hardly slated it, but appeared to favour the mk7 on balance. Now if he had compared a mk7 Ed40 or CS-S at the test track, it may have been more decisive? :)
Sutcliffe has years of experience and is more than handy behind the wheel, I am yet to drive a Mk8, but having owned Mk1, 2, 3,5 &7, I found this comments on the earlier cars accurate, particularly his remarks on the wallowy Mk3 and it's long suspension travel.
-
That was an interesting watch, thanks for posting. I wonder if the comments about the steering on the MK8 related to lane assist? Perhaps that bit of control the car has robs some of the feel?
Nice to see him driving around one of my favourite places, Waddesdon Manor.
-
I obviously don't know for certain, but I would expect a seasoned road tester driving on a private road to turn off lane assist as soon as he gets in the car?
-
Yes, a good watch- thanks for posting.
It’s always interesting to hear what the best journalists make of new cars, but even more interesting to see how those cars are looked back on a few years down the line.
He was always a big fan of the mk7, as many of the top journos were, so maybe that clouds his judgement a little.
I’d keep your mk7s!
-
I obviously don't know for certain, but I would expect a seasoned road tester driving on a private road to turn off lane assist as soon as he gets in the car?
You'd have thought so but perhaps it's the kit that robs a bit of feel regardless of whether it's on or off?
-
The car is heavier too. For “ feel”, weight is a killer
-
Maybe the difference is from the older marks with hydraulic steering-racks compared the electric ones we have now... I know some of the 'reporter drivers' seemed to feel the difference.
-
Maybe the difference is from the older marks with hydraulic steering-racks compared the electric ones we have now... I know some of the 'reporter drivers' seemed to feel the difference.
The mark 7 he favours also has an electric steering rack.
The electric racks have fewer turns lock to lock than the old hydraulic ones. Neither of my Mk1 & 2 GTi's had Power assistance.
I own a Mk7 CS, but from memory I thought the steering on a mk5 Ed30 was marginally better?
I would need to try them back to back to be sure, I think that is what surprised Sutcliffe most, I wonder what order he actually drove the cars in?
-
Maybe the difference is from the older marks with hydraulic steering-racks compared the electric ones we have now... I know some of the 'reporter drivers' seemed to feel the difference.
The mark 7 he favours also has an electric steering rack.
The electric racks have fewer turns lock to lock than the old hydraulic ones. Neither of my Mk1 & 2 GTi's had Power assistance.
I own a Mk7 CS, but from memory I thought the steering on a mk5 Ed30 was marginally better?
I would need to try them back to back to be sure, I think that is what surprised Sutcliffe most, I wonder what order he actually drove the cars in?
Did the mk5 not also have electric power steering? I prefer the mk5 ed30 for steering feel, I think it just has less electrical input than the mk7, just average suspension though. The mk7 has better suspension but too much electric input in the steering, but it's too be expected with any car with steering modes.
Was moving a Triumph TR6 the other week, with retrofitted power steering that kept cutting out. Let's just say it was a real workout when there was zero :grin:
-
Maybe the difference is from the older marks with hydraulic steering-racks compared the electric ones we have now... I know some of the 'reporter drivers' seemed to feel the difference.
The mark 7 he favours also has an electric steering rack.
The electric racks have fewer turns lock to lock than the old hydraulic ones. Neither of my Mk1 & 2 GTi's had Power assistance.
I own a Mk7 CS, but from memory I thought the steering on a mk5 Ed30 was marginally better?
I would need to try them back to back to be sure, I think that is what surprised Sutcliffe most, I wonder what order he actually drove the cars in?
Did the mk5 not also have electric power steering? I prefer the mk5 ed30 for steering feel, I think it just has less electrical input than the mk7, just average suspension though. The mk7 has better suspension but too much electric input in the steering, but it's too be expected with any car with steering modes.
Was moving a Triumph TR6 the other week, with retrofitted power steering that kept cutting out. Let's just say it was a real workout when there was zero :grin:
I think the MK5 GTI had hydraulic steering? Regardless, it certainly had more feel than the 7/7.5's set up.
There are ways to avoid a numb electric set up. Mazda MX5, for example, puts the electric steering motor on a supplementary shaft, not the main steering rack shaft, which results in much better steering feel. Best of both hydraulic and electric systems.
I found that Sutcliffe video very interesting. He is no newbie, having been around for a long time - and without doubt he knows his stuff. I would put a lot of value in his judgements. Certainly everything he had to say in that video accords with my experiences of Golfs Mk 1, 5 and 7. Haven't driven an 8 yet, but hopefully soon.
-
I'm curious as to why he said so little about the MK2 in the video.
For me, it's one off the best looking GTI's along with the 7.5.
-
I'm curious as to why he said so little about the MK2 in the video.
For me, it's one off the best looking GTI's along with the 7.5.
I've enjoyed my Mk2 Gti's, but I guess it doesn't get the attention the Mk1 gets, having started the genre.
Subjectively the Mk2 is a decent evolution of the Mk1, especially the brakes!
-
I’ve just got round to watching the vid.
So he’s only 50? God he must’ve had a good life! :grin:
Having owned at least one example of each generation with the exception of the mk3 where I went for a brace of VR6’s and an Ibiza GTI (the latter with the mk3 GTI engine and most of the front suspension) I probably agree with most of what he says.
The mk1 is a bit rose tinted specs on a private road methinks but definitely the most lively (and scary!)
Should the Golf GTI have been rebranded at some point like he says? I think not. Evolution of cars (and everything else) in general keeps it all relevant and I think the GTI still stands close to the original ethos give or take. For those that want ‘more’ there’s the R.
-
The mk1 is a bit rose tinted specs on a private road methinks but definitely the most lively (and scary!)
Should the Golf GTI have been rebranded at some point like he says? I think not. Evolution of cars (and everything else) in general keeps it all relevant and I think the GTI still stands close to the original ethos give or take. For those that want ‘more’ there’s the R.
mk1 or mk2 I've always wanted, don't have anywhere to store or restore one however. There's just a bit of character about them that makes them attractive, unfortunately not to the point where people want £10k+ for them with barely any floor pan left.
With regards to the rebranding of the GTI badge it's already happened, the GTE well they say GTX but i think that's stupid. They should embrace the GTE badge as we step towards the hybrid/electric side and focus on making the GTE a real competitor to the GTI and the rest of the hot hatches.
Focus the GTE/R on the delivery of the power and the GTI on handling around B roads.
-
Sutcliffe said the Golf should have already changed its name. Kinda like its rivals have (XR3i now ST etc) which I disagree with.
The GTX is for the next gen cars which makes sense. The GTX moniker being a historically used badge for sporty non-Golf models harking back to the ‘80’s.
The GTI badge should die with the FWD petrol hatches but is still relevant today, and for the next few years.
A mk1 is a definite lottery win garage car. :cool:
-
I never knew the GTX was previously used, I must do my homework :whistle:
I agree the GTI should be laid to rest before it becomes a hybrid 3-cyl, unless they decide they want to compete against the new 4-cylinder C63 :grin:
-
The Scirocco GTX was a childhood favourite of mine
https://www.sciroccoregister.co.uk/dr-dubs-scirocco-storm-site/mk2-gtx/ plus there was a Jetta GTX back in the day too. Probably one or two others I’ve forgotten about in the mists of time.
-
One of the first things I take from that is how ridiculous wheel sizes and tyre profiles have become. :huh:
-
One of the first things I take from that is how ridiculous wheel sizes and tyre profiles have become. :huh:
(https://i.postimg.cc/ncXCbn4m/e351ca17b986a9a29acff1a6ecf98779525bc9cbe84fc09842db7f85d664ba36-1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
-
Was the 1970 911 a wheelbarrow?
-
Was the 1970 911 a wheelbarrow?
They only had about 130-160hp, if we looked back at the golf the mk1 probably has the equivalent of the mk7 spacer saver.
-
Was the 1970 911 a wheelbarrow?
They only had about 130-160hp, if we looked back at the golf the mk1 probably has the equivalent of the mk7 spacer saver.
Huh? What about the 1969-71 911 2.2 S with it's 180bhp?
I don't know if you have driven one, but it feels zingier than the later 2.4S 190bhp engine!
(911 enthusiast over the last 30 years having owned quite a few & driven many more!) :)
-
Was the 1970 911 a wheelbarrow?
They only had about 130-160hp, if we looked back at the golf the mk1 probably has the equivalent of the mk7 spacer saver.
Huh? What about the 1969-71 911 2.2 S with it's 180bhp?
I don't know if you have driven one, but it feels zingier than the later 2.4S 190bhp engine!
(911 enthusiast over the last 30 years having owned quite a few & driven many more!) :)
It was just a quick google search, I'm by no means a Porsche expert but I'd like to give it a go with a 964 if I win the lottery :wink: