GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk8 => Topic started by: Powerman80 on 16 January 2021, 10:59
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Hello everyone. I was lurking on this forum while I made up my mind about buying the MK8 GTI vs. other options
Question is about the Dynamic Chassis Control because here it's impossible to test a car with and one without. It's barely possible to test the car period🤣.
I'm wondering if it's a must have feature. When I was considering the Octavia RS, everyone said so because the standard car's setup wasn't good. But in GTI world, response is more mixed: probably, the GTI is more well-sorted as standard.
Is it more about comfort of handling?
If it's a comfort thing... Considering that roads are pretty good in northern Italy, I will have 18-inch wheels and that I come from a Mini Cooper S :grin:, is it a must have?
If it's about handling, how much does it improve the enjoyement factor?
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Good topic! Be interesting to see what others thoughts are. I’ve always had gti/R on 19s without dcc but I suspect the Mk8 needs it.
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The mk8 gti without dcc still has two settings for the suspension.
I've driven one on eighteens without dcc over sh!tty British roads. Not harsh at all even set in the sport suspension mode. It's very good.
I've not driven one with dcc but have ordered it on my car with nineteens.
I had dcc on my old mk7 gtd. It can make the car softer a lot. Wallowy even.
The mk8 dcc is different and more clever.
How clever? No idea.
The mk8 without dcc is nothing like as hard as a Cooper S. We have a f56 Cooper and a r58 Cooper S. Both are very hard compared to the mk8 gti without dcc.
Does that help?
Ps yes Italian roads are a bit crap, just like British ones!
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Ps yes Italian roads are a bit crap, just like British ones!
Yep depends on what you compare
If I compare ours to southern Italian ones, they are pretty great:grin:
BTW really useful! Look forward to more advice
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Yes I normally drive in the South of Italy.
(I miss Italy so much :sad:)
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I’ve never had DCC. My MK7 PP was on 19s and I never found it particularly harsh. My clubsport doesn’t have it and in my opinion it rides really well. Certainly no harsher than the MK7
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I seem to recall that in one Mk8 GTI review, the reviewer got some feedback from VW about the standard non-DCC set up, ie that 2 suspension settings (comfort and sport I think) didn't actually change anything. It is just something in the software that couldn't be removed (or that VW couldn't be bothered to remove).
I've not heard that anyway else but it does tie up with the Volkswizard review where AC didn't notice much if any difference between the two settings.
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I seem to recall that in one Mk8 GTI review, the reviewer got some feedback from VW about the standard non-DCC set up, ie that 2 suspension settings (comfort and sport I think) didn't actually change anything. It is just something in the software that couldn't be removed (or that VW couldn't be bothered to remove).
I've not heard that anyway else but it does tie up with the Volkswizard review where AC didn't notice much if any difference between the two settings.
If the dampers are passive there is no way you can change something, but maybe it works on the steering and throttle response setting.
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Whether DCC is a must have on the Mk8 will be a matter of personal opinion. Just as it was on the mk7/7.5.
But IMO, if you can afford DCC, don't hesitate. I cannot see a circumstance where you would regret it. DCC gives the car so much more versatility. Whether that's passenger preferences (as in my household) or road conditions.
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That is a MUST option!, no brainer!. Sorry! :whistle:
And that is a cheap option aswell!!.. if you compare with Panorama e.g...
If you tried DCC you never go back! And the New 10 sep on the Mk8 seems even better!
Even softer and Harder!.. Perfect!! :smiley:
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That is a MUST option!, no brainer!. Sorry! :whistle:
And that is a cheap option aswell!!.. if you compare with Panorama e.g...
If you tried DCC you never go back! And the New 10 sep on the Mk8 seems even better!
Even softer and Harder!.. Perfect!! :smiley:
One question: when you make a setting, does it revert to normal every time you turn it off?
I had something similar on a Mini, but since it reverted to normal every time, after a while I was just driving in normal because I didnt remember to change. It was a complete waste.
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On the mk7 if you selected individual mode then the suspension stayed set when you switch off. Only sport mode deselects each time
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On the mk7 if you selected individual mode then the suspension stayed set when you switch off. Only sport mode deselects each time
That is a MUST option!, no brainer!. Sorry! :whistle:
And that is a cheap option aswell!!.. if you compare with Panorama e.g...
If you tried DCC you never go back! And the New 10 sep on the Mk8 seems even better!
Even softer and Harder!.. Perfect!! :smiley:
One question: when you make a setting, does it revert to normal every time you turn it off?
I had something similar on a Mini, but since it reverted to normal every time, after a while I was just driving in normal because I didnt remember to change. It was a complete waste.
Yes only in sportmode it get back!. I drive 95% in Comfort ;)...
Never in Normal....just Comfort and Sport :grin:
And the Mk8 will be even better!! :laugh:
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On the mk7 if you selected individual mode then the suspension stayed set when you switch off. Only sport mode deselects each time
That is a MUST option!, no brainer!. Sorry! :whistle:
And that is a cheap option aswell!!.. if you compare with Panorama e.g...
If you tried DCC you never go back! And the New 10 sep on the Mk8 seems even better!
Even softer and Harder!.. Perfect!! :smiley:
One question: when you make a setting, does it revert to normal every time you turn it off?
I had something similar on a Mini, but since it reverted to normal every time, after a while I was just driving in normal because I didnt remember to change. It was a complete waste.
Yes only in sportmode it get back!. I drive 95% in Comfort ;)...
Never in Normal....just Comfort and Sport :grin:
And the Mk8 will be even better!! :laugh:
OK but given that the comfort side would probably be more than enough for me. I mean, if I wanted a comfortable car I would buy something else.
Is it a big improvement in fun/handling while driving fast?
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Let me articulate better.
My fear is that I'll just leave it on comfort all the time for laziness and lose the point of having a hot hatch.
Sometimes, your car has to push you.
Anyone has experienced this?
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On the mk7 if you selected individual mode then the suspension stayed set when you switch off. Only sport mode deselects each time
That is a MUST option!, no brainer!. Sorry! :whistle:
And that is a cheap option aswell!!.. if you compare with Panorama e.g...
If you tried DCC you never go back! And the New 10 sep on the Mk8 seems even better!
Even softer and Harder!.. Perfect!! :smiley:
One question: when you make a setting, does it revert to normal every time you turn it off?
I had something similar on a Mini, but since it reverted to normal every time, after a while I was just driving in normal because I didnt remember to change. It was a complete waste.
Yes only in sportmode it get back!. I drive 95% in Comfort ;)...
Never in Normal....just Comfort and Sport :grin:
And the Mk8 will be even better!! :laugh:
OK but given that the comfort side would probably be more than enough for me. I mean, if I wanted a comfortable car I would buy something else.
Is it a big improvement in fun/handling while driving fast?
But is not so nice to kill the Car on 19" on bad roads..Just one button and you can drive even faster with a bit softer suspension....Hard is not always better!. Just on track on a smoth track Very hard is nice....in other case the car probably is slower ;)
Just Look att the New "Ringen" mode on The R that makes the car 17 sec faster than the Mk7.5 R :)
Everyting is in sport, and very agressive shifting....and the suspension is even softer!. Because the Car is faster on The Ring that is like many roads.... ;)...
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Let me articulate better.
My fear is that I'll just leave it on comfort all the time for laziness and lose the point of having a hot hatch.
Sometimes, your car has to push you.
Anyone has experienced this?
No that is not what think!
And if you get the Mk8 R that has that R button on the Steering Wheel!. You will use the differant settings every day i think now!
It is so easy!, like in the Bmw M car that have these M buttons!. They are awesome!! :grin:
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The thing with dcc is that it's dynamic. It's not just a hard or soft suspension setting. Drive hard at comfort or in sport, makes no difference other than feel. The car performs the same.
Famously top gear's stig did exactly the same lap time in a mk7 in sport and comfort mode.
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The thing with dcc is that it's dynamic. It's not just a hard or soft suspension setting. Drive hard at comfort or in sport, makes no difference other than feel. The car performs the same.
Famously top gear's stig did exactly the same lap time in a mk7 in sport and comfort mode.
Yes but that is on a flat Air Field ;) , you don´t need a suspension on that. :whistle:
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Whether DCC is a must have on the Mk8 will be a matter of personal opinion. Just as it was on the mk7/7.5.
But IMO, if you can afford DCC, don't hesitate. I cannot see a circumstance where you would regret it. DCC gives the car so much more versatility. Whether that's passenger preferences (as in my household) or road conditions.
... it is very much personal choice and circumstances. What cars have you driven before? What are the roads like? Is comfort a high priority? Will you fit 19 inch alloys?
I found the standard Mk7 suspension too firm, but the roads I drive on are terrible. I told my dealer if the car didn't have DCC he could keep it. Many people find the standard suspension GTI/GTD fine.
I suspect they might have improved the suspension from my test drive in the new A3 S line. Despite having sport suspension, I found the new A3 reasonably comfortable.
It is impossible to be sure without a test drive.
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Whether DCC is a must have on the Mk8 will be a matter of personal opinion. Just as it was on the mk7/7.5.
But IMO, if you can afford DCC, don't hesitate. I cannot see a circumstance where you would regret it. DCC gives the car so much more versatility. Whether that's passenger preferences (as in my household) or road conditions.
... it is very much personal choice and circumstances. What cars have you driven before? What are the roads like? Is comfort a high priority? Will you fit 19 inch alloys?
I found the standard Mk7 suspension too firm, but the roads I drive on are terrible. I told my dealer if the car didn't have DCC he could keep it. Many people find the standard suspension GTI/GTD fine.
I suspect they might have improved the suspension from my test drive in the new A3 S line. Despite having sport suspension, I found the new A3 reasonably comfortable.
It is impossible to be sure without a test drive.
I'm coming from Mini Cooper &S, not fitting 19 inch (rather 18). I don't have family to carry around.
I will test a DCC car Wednesday, but that's the only GTI I could find for a test in my region... I'll try to see if I can squeeze it into the budget.
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I've had two mk7s, one estate with DCC (custom order GT trim with another £5-6k options) and a GTD without (dealer stock).
When I first test drove the GTD I thought that it's significantly worse, especially in the corners.
Went for DCC on my Leon ST FR again.
Wouldn't want a performance car without it; as much as you can call the 184hp diesel a performance vehicle.
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I've had two mk7s, one estate with DCC (custom order GT trim with another £5-6k options) and a GTD without (dealer stock).
When I first test drove the GTD I thought that it's significantly worse, especially in the corners.
Went for DCC on my Leon ST FR again.
Wouldn't want a performance car without it; as much as you can call the 184hp diesel a performance vehicle.
This is the kind of feedback I was looking for! :nerd:
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I went the other way if you read my signature.
Only back with dcc on my mk8 because of nineteens and nobody knows how that rides yet without it.
Let's put it this way if you think the ride is neither hard enough or soft enough, dcc is the answer, pay your nine hundred quid.
Best bet is to test drive without and then decide for yourself though.
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Is there a great difference in price to the GTi with DCC and the Clubsport without ?? I really see the Clubsport as a sweet spot in the line up. IMHO of course
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Yes, the clubby is about three grand more than a gti dsg and dcc is nine hundred.
Bear in mind that the clubby suspension is harder than the gti.
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It's always an interesting discussion with a wide range of responses.
The question I would ask is " do I need a versatile car to be even more versatile". If you don't, then there is a risk you'll pay c£900 for an option you don't use.
For the mk7, the majority view was that DCC unnecessary on 18s, desirable on 19s.
I suspect discussion about the mk8 will follow similar lines.
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It was an easy decision for me, as none of the clubsports delivered to dealers had it. Only difference was colour
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It's always an interesting discussion with a wide range of responses.
The question I would ask is " do I need a versatile car to be even more versatile". If you don't, then there is a risk you'll pay c£900 for an option you don't use.
For the mk7, the majority view was that DCC unnecessary on 18s, desirable on 19s.
I suspect discussion about the mk8 will follow similar lines.
Yep I noticed it. With the Skoda, there was pretty much consensus on the standard suspension needing ACC
Let's see if the 900€ become something less at the dealer.
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Welcome Marco from Milano!
You write better English than most of us.
I’m going to fly in the face of everyone else in the world, VW engineers included, and say no, you do not *need* DCC.
I’ve owned both an R56 Cooper D and an F56 Cooper SD so I know MINI suspension well enough.
I’ve also owned one or two (dozen) Golfs and only one of those had DCC and that was the suspension I liked the least since 2004.
I’m no expert and I’m certainly not an engineer, but I ran Golfs with upgraded suspension for 20 odd years therefore I do have my own opinions based on experience.
Every road test or press blurb I read at the car’s launch stated that the mk8 GTI had increased spring rates over the outgoing model.
It is the springs that dictate ride quality more than dampers when it comes to absorbing sudden changes in surface quality. A damper’s job is to try and control the spring’s oscillations so it’s very much a reactive thing. Add in the complexity of extra valving and all you get is extra delay.
A hard spring hitting a pothole is going to send a crash through the body-shell no matter how good your dampers are. And when you have a bad back that suddenly becomes the difference between living with a car or not being able to, never mind actually enjoying it. That impact is much worse when you have a comfort orientated damper setting but still have firm springs meaning there’s extra delay in the damper absorbing the impact harshness when hitting a pothole, ridge or expansion joint no matter how good the electronics are.
DCC to me would be perfect on a big SUV that has long spring travel, big walled tyres and decent bushing for a comfy ride.
A hot hatch has stiff(ish) springs, low profile tyres and firmer bushing. The hot hatch is about compromise and good reflexes, with a Golf GTI traditionally pushed towards a more comfort orientated set up (compared to many rivals) even without DCC.
Up until the mk5 GTI the standard GTI suspension was a bit rubbery (ok, the mk1 and mk2 weren’t too bad but would still cock a leg when cornering sharply or run a bit wide) but since then it’s been a very good compromise with its fully independent rear suspension.
Peugeot were once masters of GTI suspension and their answer was softer long travel springs and stiffer dampers able to cope with the cobbles of France. German suspension always seems to feature stiffer springs and the standard non-adjustable dampers have been developed to be a reasonable compromise.
Everyone else who is anybody as far as expert authority goes will disagree with me but that’s my uneducated take on it.
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One thing I will say is that its a one time decision - nobody would ever suggest retro-fitting DCC.... it would cost a very large sum indeed.
There are other adjustable ride non-OEM suspension systems you could fit, I've never seen anyone do it to a Mk7 Golf though.
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Welcome Marco from Milano!
Add in the complexity of extra valving and all you get is extra delay.
That's absolutely what concerns me the most. This car will probably be my last before moving to a Lexus or whatever.
With the Mini I'm used to be super-connected to the road and have ultra-fast response.
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In my experience a Golf doesn't drive anything like a Mini - that rollerskate go kart feeling you get from a sporty mini model is not replicated in the Golf under any circumstance... you might be worrying about something you won't ever see...
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I’m going to fly in the face of everyone else in the world, VW engineers included, and say no, you do not *need* DCC.
Everyone else who is anybody as far as expert authority goes will disagree with me but that’s my uneducated take on it.
I would trust Exonian on this rather than the engineers.
There was a good piece on handling in June 2019 Evo (no 261) in which several top engineers were interviewed. One of the questions was " what do you think will be the next big thing in chassis development". Almost all of them talked about active suspension systems- and all seemed enthusiastic about it.
I think they're being a bit lazy. I want them to set the car up properly for the brief that's given for that car.
I want a practical car that's comfortable and fun to drive on a public road. Once the suspension is set up for that, it doesn't need to be changed. I'm never driving on an absolutely smooth racing track. Neither am I ever driving on really terrible roads. Nor do I expect- or even want- it to drive like a limo.
I think also that some of this is driven by marketing. People want stuff to mess with. It's why " graphic equalizers" were popular on low end 80s hifi. Have you seen how few buttons you get on quality hifi?
I'm fairly sure that if I specced a car with dcc, I'd work out which setting is best-for the use that I make of the car- and just leave it at that for my entire ownership.
Just like I have for the steering, throttle, and Dynaudio settings.
If the engineers set it up properly in the first place- assuming you're not intending to use the car on track- you don't need the cost and complexity of an active system.
I'm not interested in graphic equalizers!
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Oh, one more thing I agree with Exonian on- in the 80s/90s- Peugeot did it best. Since the mk5 golf, VW have done it best
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So far my idea is...
DCC adds scope to the car in terms of comfort, especially with 19s, but it's not a game changer for sharp sports driving.
I will test the car with DCC. If I like it and manage to squeak it into the budget, good.
If it really doesn't fit the budget, it might not be a complete disaster especially with the 18s.
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I test drove one on eighteens without dcc. Seriously it was fine. Really flat handling, firm but not harsh (unlike the 128ti) i would have no hesitation to buying one like that.
I wanted nineteens and didn't get a chance to try that without dcc. After a painful day with the BMW i wasn't about to risk that turning out bad.
In a perfect world I'd have got another test drive and found out the answer.
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DCC is very subjective. What's acceptable to one person isn't to another. Largely depends on what someone is used to and have driven before. The only way to really tell is to have test drives with/without. Obviously we can't have those at the mo - when they restart, I don't imagine there will be many demos with 18" & DCC though.
FWIW I test drove a non-DCC on 18" and found it a bit harsh. But then I'm used to a softer suspension. Seats have a part to play as well. I found the Mk 8 seats rather nice n comfy.
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But if you buy a new car and have 1000£ on options, the DCC is the first thing you should pick!. This must be one of the cheapest option that is crazu expensive to retro fit!... :whistle:
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If I order a Mk 8, DCC will the first option I pick. That doesn't help those who are looking to pick up a stock car and are debating what options they can live without though. Last time I looked on AT, all the Mk 8s with DCC are on 19". Ok if you want 19" I guess.
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Playing the "in stock" game in challenging.
Its like buying a second hand car but new.
Someone else has chosen the options!
Most seemed to have 19's, some had DCC, a few have 19's and a variety of options.
I was told the other day that they are having to quote 28 weeks on a factory order... eek.
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All stock ones have 18 and DCC here, but they are sold with a huge markup, I mean, without discount.
I got a quote at 37500€ (32GBP) from a list value of 44000 for an open order. The stock ones are 40 to 44000.
No way I'm gonna spend that money. I hope that nobody will buy at those prices.
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It's quite an interesting thread this. I get the impression people consider DCC to improve what they feel to be poor ride, rather than to give a wider use for the car- surely that's the purpose of DCC?
Do those with DCC actually use the different settings?
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It's quite an interesting thread this. I get the impression people consider DCC to improve what they feel to be poor ride, rather than to give a wider use for the car- surely that's the purpose of DCC?
Do those with DCC actually use the different settings?
Actually I'm surprised because A LOT of people praise the Hyundai i30N and that car has the stiffest ride ever, almost made me want to throw up. It's like a go-kart, but a 125cc shifter, not a 4-stroke like the Mini. :grin: :grin: :grin:
Joking aside, it shows that the Golf is an 360° more mature car and probably appeals more to a 360° use.
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It's quite an interesting thread this. I get the impression people consider DCC to improve what they feel to be poor ride, rather than to give a wider use for the car- surely that's the purpose of DCC?
Do those with DCC actually use the different settings?
When I had it the first time, I left it in normal most of the time. If I selected sport mode it went to sport for dcc. If I drove across a field or other unmade road, I selected comfort.
Now with the mk8 having something like twelve settings rather than three... Who knows yet. I'll let you know in march.
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It's quite an interesting thread this. I get the impression people consider DCC to improve what they feel to be poor ride, rather than to give a wider use for the car- surely that's the purpose of DCC?
Do those with DCC actually use the different settings?
I use mine daily, depending on road surface, whether I'm solo or with family, or just how I feel.
In sport mode it is more tied-down and sportier feeling than the standard, non-DCC GTI suspension.
But if the roads are bad, I can dial it right back to near base model Golf levels of comfort.
The GTI may be fine without it. But IMO it's a lot better with DCC. At least for me.
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Apparently there won't be any choice.
Pending test drive, I will get a stock version, with red colour, matrix headlights and DCC.
Slightly pricier than I anticipated but I will get more money for my used car and won't make a difference between life and bankrupcy :grin:
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I wasnt going to spec it specifically but i've got it (stock car).
Personally, i cant see what all the hype is about, i certainly wouldnt spend money on having it but maybe i'm not really using it as people talk about setting it up......
setting what up?! i thought the idea was you put it in to Sport and its different to Comfort - it is yeh but not £800 different!! ha
Someone educate me
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They quoted me 180 days for an order...
Then there is this...
(https://i.postimg.cc/xdDH6Kf1/7f5b079a-b3f7-48d2-a7f2-5f3b0e65875c.jpg)
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I've heard about terrible lead times... up to 28 weeks.... if there is stock and its sort of right spec... that's what I did.
But do get a test drive of at least ANY Mk8 GTI, after that you will know what you want.
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Do you know when you're getting yours Fred? Hopefully they were keen to do deals on stock cars :smiley:
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Do you know when you're getting yours Fred? Hopefully they were keen to do deals on stock cars :smiley:
1st March - my choice.... could have had it today if I had wanted.
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I've heard about terrible lead times... up to 28 weeks.... if there is stock and its sort of right spec... that's what I did.
But do get a test drive of at least ANY Mk8 GTI, after that you will know what you want.
I'm testing this one... no way I'm signing without testing
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I'm testing this one... no way I'm signing without testing
Can't wait to hear your thoughts - do us all a writeup when you've driven it.
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Do you know when you're getting yours Fred? Hopefully they were keen to do deals on stock cars :smiley:
1st March - my choice.... could have had it today if I had wanted.
Good choice 👍
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Test drove the car finally.
Looks absolutely amazing, sounds so much better than the A3 and SkRS
Interior is not bad as people say, it's simply different
Touch controls are not nearly a pain like people say (probably they never tested the car)
Coming from the Mini, i coudln't tell much difference from DCC normal to sport to comfort in terms of the suspensions. If we take away the different steering and gearbox responses, from a pure dampening standpoint simply there isn't much change, at least compared to the Mini/Non Mini difference :evil:.
What put me off is, while I was concerned about electronics reliability and issues and already doubted my effort, the dealer raised the request by 1K saying, it's this or five months wait. It was the tiny push I needed to decide for the no. At least for now, of course... :grin:
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Well, glad you got a chance to play.
Are you sure the car had DCC?
On the Mk7 the difference between sport and comfort modes on DCC are quite dramatic....
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Well, glad you got a chance to play.
Are you sure the car had DCC?
On the Mk7 the difference between sport and comfort modes on DCC are quite dramatic....
Maybe it's because I pushed it quite hard so even in comfort, the car set the dampers to be harder by default.
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Maybe something has changed on the Mk8 vs the Mk7?
On the Mk7 "sport" on a DCC equipped car you can (as the driver at least) feel the surface of the road - every lump and bump...in comfort it almost feels just short of wallowly. And going from one to the other is really noticeable.
I've not got my Mk8 with DCC yet, my test drive was on a non-DCC car.