GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: martin998877 on 30 December 2020, 10:01
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Hi, I currently have a manual Gti, I'm looking to buy a newer one. I know from late 2019 ? all of them have DSG.
However the models I'm looking at have both gearboxes available. I've driven a DSG Yeti in the past and wasn't that keen on it but I've heard positive things about it on the Gti, not least the ACC allowing start stop auto driving in queues of traffic.
I wonder if people who have driven both could comment on the pros and cons of DSG ove manual please? Is MPG similar, i get a pretty good 43 overall at the moment.
Many thanks!
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Do you mean in terms of general everyday ease of use or for spirited driving?
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Do you mean in terms of general everyday ease of use or for spirited driving?
Both really, I do steady driving (M6 with 50 limit) and overtake along lanes.
Thanks for any thoughts!
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Hi, I currently have a manual Gti, I'm looking to buy a newer one. I know from late 2019 ? all of them have DSG.
However the models I'm looking at have both gearboxes available. I've driven a DSG Yeti in the past and wasn't that keen on it but I've heard positive things about it on the Gti, not least the ACC allowing start stop auto driving in queues of traffic.
I wonder if people who have driven both could comment on the pros and cons of DSG ove manual please? Is MPG similar, i get a pretty good 43 overall at the moment.
Many thanks!
With the 7 speed DSG, the 7th gear only comes into play above 60mph downhill, 70 on the flat, 80 most times. If you're never doing 70mph+, the 7th gear is almost redundant. On a 6 speed to 6 speed basis, I always found the manual box 10% better mpg than the DSG.
I only use ACC to maintain speed on average camera zones (should be useful for the OP's M6 stretch if it's busy with lots of changes in speed. If you've not got much congestion, the manual is no hardship to own.
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You'll have as many opinions on this as posts :grin:
I've moved from a manual PP to a DSG TCR. I loved the manual box, especially with a short shift fitted. I found it flexible enough on motorways to rarely have to change gear and great fun on a good road. Stop start is much better (very annoying with DSG) and I like that if you want to accelerate you just change gear and put your foot down :evil:. The DSG though, it can be hesitant, often at an inconvenient moment, in S it holds onto the gears far too long whereas D is not always enough. Manual mode is probably best but I really think that they should be able to offer a gearbox that just works properly without having the faff of being in the right mode. On the plus side, DSG is better if you are stuck in traffic and it does make for a more relaxed, laid back drive. If that's what you want. I just find the manual more of a thrill.
Economy wise I can't comment due to my change not being like for like but I'd have thought the 7 speed should be fairly similar to a manual.
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I agree very much with Watts. I currently drive a 20 plate GTI PP DSG 7 spd after over 20 yrs driving manuals (mostly performance Golfs). Watts is absolutely right (and it is well documented) that the DSG box needs a middle setting - D (Drive) is too slow witted and far too eager to change up througfh the gears at the very first opportunity, whilst S (Sport) is the other extreme and holds the gears too long.
The truth is that D should be re-named E (Economy) and the gearbox should have three settings - E, D and S. In D the box should hold on to the gear it is in for 500-800rpm longer than it does, and it shouldn't hunt up through the box so crazily fast, dropping you out of the torque band altogether and often dragging you along at around 1,100 rpm.
The DSG box is fantastic at what it does well. Under hard acceleration the upshifts (particualrly in Manual mode, using the paddles) are genuinely super-fast and smooth, and the downshifts are similarly good PROVIDED you are clear what you are doing - you actually need to accelerate BEFORE pulling the paddle to change down to 'prep' the box as to what you want, or you will be given a slow, ponderous, clunky change as the box tries to work out what's going on.
Overall? I strongly suspect I will revert back to a manual box next time I change. I'm glad I have experienced the DSG properly, and it is mightily impressive at certain things, but it is really frustrating at other times, and the fact is I changed gear smoothly under all circumstances using my brain and my left foot for nearly 20 years.
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Completely agree with Watts and CarbonGTD - having just moved from manual GTD to a DSG I overall prefer the manual for the reasons stated. The box is fantastic at actually changing gears - but VAG are not great at the software side of things for programming in the change point. Other manufacturers do a much better job of this.
Also when maneuvering in tight spaces if you go too slow the auto hold kicks in, not a problem in a manual as you can feather the clutch to take it off at the speed you want. With DSG you either have to turn the auto hold system off (and remember to put it back on again) or give the accelerator a little jab and quickly move to the brake. A 'proper' auto doesn't have this issue either.
One thing they have done really well though is integrating the DSG box into the ACC. So when you're sitting in traffic it will come to a complete stop and then start again when the queue moves without you having to do a thing. Also the stop start system will start the engine when it sees the car in front start to move even if you're not in ACC mode. A manual car may do this as well but I hadn't noticed.
It even seems to have some intelligence about how fast to accelerate when negotiating junctions / roundabouts. whilst following someone.
Short summary - if you sit in a lot of traffic - DSG. If you don't - manual.
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One thing they have done really well though is integrating the DSG box into the ACC. So when you're sitting in traffic it will come to a complete stop and then start again when the queue moves without you having to do a thing. Also the stop start system will start the engine when it sees the car in front start to move even if you're not in ACC mode. A manual car may do this as well but I hadn't noticed.
That feature you speak of is my biggest annoyance with DSG. You come to a stop *even just before you come to a stop), the car engine cuts out with stop-start. The car in front shuffles up a foot in static traffic and your engine fires up again, to do nothing but sit there and idle - I find that hugely annoying. I'd much rather my actions prompt the car to restart e.g. coming off the brake pedal (the dipping of the clutch on a manual box is just as handy,).
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Yeah I guess it would be really annoying in a lot of stop start traffic. I've just had the odd wait a the lights rather than a 'proper' traffic jam to deal with.
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I very rarely sit in traffic, so manual all day long.
One of my favourite things about the GTI is the stump pulling torque from low in the rev range. It feels like a much bigger engine and you can just waft around making decent progress.
When I put my foot down I want to accelerate using that ample torque, not change gear twice because my car was sat at 1000rpm, off boost, to save 0.3 femtoliters of petrol. Both D & S are such a sh!tty interface for a incredibly flexible engine.
I appreciate that VW have emission targets to hit, but as mentioned other manufacturers (ZF) do it without nurfing the car.
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DSG or Manual - one of the topics that crops up periodically on many VAG forums, along with premium unleaded v’s regular unleaded petrol, leather v’s cloth upholstery and (but less frequently now) petrol v’s diesel.
As @watts has said, there’ll be many opinions on the merits (or otherwise) of DSG compared to a manual transmission. The only way that @martin998877 can really decide if a DSG GTI is right for them is to try and arrange an extended test drive. That way they’ll hopefully be able to drive and evaluate a DSG equipped GTI under a variety of different conditions and on different types of roads and compare it to their existing manual GTI. However, with more and more of the country moving into Tier 4 Covid-19 restrictions, an extended test drive might not be easy to arrange just now.
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Cruising with acc right down to stop? Superb.
Trundling along and want to overtake, kick down is your friend.
Like all tech it has some limitations but for most people, most of the time it's pretty good.
The main two things I've seen with it problem wise is the holding the gear too long in sports mode and how engine stop start works.
The former can be fixed with a Dsg tune and the latter by disabling stop start.
I've had manual cars always but auto for me next time simply for the acc.
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Many thanks everyone, really good input - a long test drive will be the only way to see if DSG is worth it.
Thanks again.