GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: Sootchucker on 21 July 2020, 10:15
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Well, yesterday I went to a BMW dealership in North Wales to test drive the new BMW M135 X-Drive as well as the X2 M 35i.
Both cars were in BMW Misano Blue and running 19" alloys, and to be honest looked superb - both of them. I test drove the X2 first and as expected it accelerated like a train, and being AWD (like the R), not a hint of wheel spin (was was a 20 plate ex demonstrator). I then jumped into the M135 and to be honest, immediately that suited me better (and the wife liked it better). Performance similar (as you would expect) to the X2. The 1 series was a 69 plate item on their used car slot with no options other than the M135i plus pack it would seem.
Upon concluding both drives we pondered them. I discounted the X2 almost straight away. Firstly the rear visibility was awful with an almost tunnel like rear screen. For a car that lists at over £47k, I was also very disappointed and amazed that for such a relatively large car, it only comes with rear parking sensors - no front and no camera (that's part of a pack). Also I found the steering just too light and not much self centring, and coming out of the Golf with it's 2.5 turns lock to lock, the X2 by contrast was something like 3.5 turns with result in a lot of wheels turning when manoeuvring. Also, again for a car of this price, Electric folding mirrors are an option and not standard ? Also, I don't think I'm really ready for an SUV yet.
The M135 was better as parking sensors front and rear are standard as are folding mirrors and the interior layout suited me better. There's a decent amount of kit as standard but unfortunately no active cruise control, lane assist, rear assist etc, as that is part of a £1000 driver aid pack, otherwise spec seems pretty similar to most performance golfs i.e. 18" alloys, auto lights and wipers folding mirrors, excellent sport seats, heated seat, dual climate control etc.
The problem for me is that I like my toys, and I wouldn't have wanted to give up much that my GTI has, but I quickly found that most of the "individual" items I wanted, are contained in expensive packs and not available individually. For instance if you want just the sound system, then it's part of the M135i plus pack (at £1500) - to be fair does also include 19" alloys and sun protection glass. Another example is that if you want comfort access (keyless), it's in another £1500 Comfort Pack II (combined with electric seats, steering wheel heating, and electric tailgate). Don't get me wrong, as a combined price these packs are probably good value for money if you want / need all the features of the pack (sadly I didn't). I wanted a rear camera (like the GTI) and yes, you've guessed it Tech Pack I at....£1500 ?
So when specifying the car with the options I wanted (most of which were contained in packs), I quickly ended up at over £44k. Despite haggling over the price for a while, I also found the BMW dealer far less ready to give big discounts that I'm used to at VW. The thing however that concerned me, is that on BMW's official used car web site, there are plenty of M135i's some of which are only months old, and being listed at £7-£9K off list, which makes a new one very pricey considering how much they seem to depreciate in just 6 months ? So I've scrapped the idea of a new one, and will perhaps look to find a used one in my colour and spec choice (or as near to it as possible).
I will say though, these are very nicely made cars and ooze quality and certainly makes the interior on the MK7 or 7.5 Golf look lower rent, but to be fair the Golf is an 8 year old design. TBH, can't see how the new MK8 is going to compete with these ? The infotainment system in particular is superb with both I-drive and touchscreen capability and a really nice 10" wide screen. In my opinion however, one area where the MK7.5 beats the M135i is the digital dash. Sure we all moan that the VW unit could have been easily made to do more, but compared to the system in the BMW, which frankly is plain ugly and not at all easy or clear to look at, and much less configurable than those in the Golf's.
Interestingly on the way back, (75 mile trip), the GTI did once again put a smile on my face and was very quiet and civilised and certainly quick enough for most uses, and did make me wonder why I was ever thinking of changing in the 1st place. I think it's a case of "grass is greener" as I've been with VW exclusively now for 15 years, and part of me I think just wanted a change. I'll keep you posted if things change.
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If you were still thinking of a change to the Beemer, by far the cheapest broker prices for new BMWs was "coast2coast cars".
Most BMWs are heavy on the initial depreciation, and you need a big initial discount to overcome that. Might be worth buying used if they still appeal.
I had a courtesy BMW 420d a few years ago and really didn't see what the fuss was all about - lots of hard silver painted dash plastic and the hardest, most uncomfortable seats I've experienced in a long time, like a solid seat base with a very thin layer of foam.
That seat reminded.me of my Grandad's old sofa - when the base springs went, rather than buy a new one, he cut and screwed a sheet of ply into the base under the very thin cushions. Tightest man I ever knew! :grin:
Hopefully the 1 series is more golf-like in comfort levels.
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The problem for me is that I like my toys, and I wouldn't have wanted to give up much that my GTI has, but I quickly found that most of the "individual" items I wanted, are contained in expensive packs and not available individually. For instance if you want just the sound system, then it's part of the M135i plus pack (at £1500) -
if you want comfort access (keyless), it's in another £1500 Comfort Pack II (combined with electric seats, steering wheel heating, and electric tailgate).
I'm just about to pull the trigger on one myself so have done a fair bit of research.
The harman kardon can be added on its own at a cost of £750 although it says its part of a pack.
Also the comfort access can be added on its own at £500.
The technology pack looks a no brainer with:
LED Headlights
High-beam Assistant
Park Assist including Reversing Assist camera
Head-up Display
Enhanced Bluetooth with wireless charging
WiFi hotspot preparation
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Yeah you can buy the various components without packs, although some of the bundles represent big discounts over the individual prices.
My M135i spec was tech pack 2, lumber support and ACC - cheaper than buying three packs when that did what I wanted.
The trouble with both the Mk7 Golf and the M135i is that the options are pretty attactive... but I try to keep a level head and having had two Mk7's I can realistically decide what of the modern tech is worth having for me and what is not.
I got a quote from a broker that slashed the price a hell of a lot.
BMW prices I know have increased and some of the spec has changed too since launch, but its still my yardstick by which I am measuring other options.
Sooty - would you now say that BMW have basically FINALLY built a Golf? I know I feel that about it and I think the Mk8 will struggle against it except on one curious aspect - there isn't a GTI spec 1 series. You can have a GTD, you can have an R but there is no 240bhp ish 2 litre petrol FWD variant. Its bizarre IMHO.
I guess its because its basically Mini parts bin reuse and they don't have that config either.
I'd take that spec 1 series if they made it without blinking.
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^ I'm putting up a new fence soon, wish i'd gone for lumber support. I'll have to settle for putting the back seats down and protect the interior with blankets when I load up with wood. :grin:
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If you like it I would contact TRL for a no haggle pretty much best price around. No way will it be anywhere near £44k. BMW discounts are usually significant on such models and you don't generally have to look far or try hard to get them.
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An auto M135i with metallic paint comes in at £32542 inclusive of £1500 deposit contribution at Coast2coast cars. You could add options of course. That's a 14% saving on list.
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^ I'm putting up a new fence soon, wish i'd gone for lumber support. I'll have to settle for putting the back seats down and protect the interior with blankets when I load up with wood. :grin:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: don't tell me, you are here all week?
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Some more homework to do then ;D
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If you like it I would contact TRL for a no haggle pretty much best price around. No way will it be anywhere near £44k. BMW discounts are usually significant on such models and you don't generally have to look far or try hard to get them.
Yep, first thing I thought when I saw that price was that TRL could probably do it a lot cheaper.
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TRL was the broker I referred to earlier.
Very good, very easy to deal with....
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Sorry, who are TLR ?
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Tony Lewis.
He's a salesman at Berry BMW, apparently.
Knocks out cheap BMW deals via a thread on the babybmw forum.
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pm'ed you Sooty
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The problem with the recent price increase is metallic paint and one pack puts you close to the £40k ved price bracket. Whereas before you could opt for metallic, 19" wheels / plus pack and tech pack which for me gets everything I'd need and still be under the £40k.
I didn't think anyone could beat TRL's deals but I'll give coast to coast a look.
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Don't get too hung up on the £40k thing. The first years VED is included in the OTR prices, and years 2-5, whilst seem like a lot of money to pay out, only equate to a trip to Starbucks each week. And let's face it, none of us will be doing as much of that for a good while.
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Don't get too hung up on the £40k thing. The first years VED is included in the OTR prices, and years 2-5, whilst seem like a lot of money to pay out, only equate to a trip to Starbucks each week. And let's face it, none of us will be doing as much of that for a good while.
That was my thought when ordering my car. Didn’t want to hobble my choice based on difference in price over years 2-5 which isn’t that much per week when you break it down. ETTO though.
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Don't get too hung up on the £40k thing. The first years VED is included in the OTR prices, and years 2-5, whilst seem like a lot of money to pay out, only equate to a trip to Starbucks each week. And let's face it, none of us will be doing as much of that for a good while.
I've never been to a Starbucks, and at their prices I'm not likely to. :grin: If I'm going to pay £4 for a drink its going to be justifiable because it's a pint of beer with tax paid on it. :whistle:
My A4 falls in the luxury bracket. It is an unfair tax to be paying out for 5 years on the basis that in year 1 it was briefly worth more than £40k.
They should load it all at the front end in the OTR price (oh wait they already do a bit of that too!).
Some very ordinary cars are breaching that limit because
1. RRPs of cars are currently ridiculous vs what you can aim to pay.
2. The Government hasn't increased the threshold in line with inflation, so more cars are being caught up in it.
No escaping it though.
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Don't get too hung up on the £40k thing. The first years VED is included in the OTR prices, and years 2-5, whilst seem like a lot of money to pay out, only equate to a trip to Starbucks each week. And let's face it, none of us will be doing as much of that for a good while.
I've never been to a Starbucks, and at their prices I'm not likely to. :grin: If I'm going to pay £4 for a drink its going to be justifiable because it's a pint of beer with tax paid on it. :whistle:
My A4 falls in the luxury bracket. It is an unfair tax to be paying out for 5 years on the basis that in year 1 it was briefly worth more than £40k.
They should load it all at the front end in the OTR price (oh wait they already do a bit of that too!).
Some very ordinary cars are breaching that limit because
1. RRPs of cars are currently ridiculous vs what you can aim to pay.
2. The Government hasn't increased the threshold in line with inflation, so more cars are being caught up in it.
No escaping it though.
Agreed, the £40k limit is complete rubbish. My 330e would have crept in under that when I ordered but was £42.5k when it arrived after the price increase. Metallic was free previously on the M Sport. It's a lease so doesn;t bother me but it's just another example of extra tax for those who have already no doubt paid lots of tax.
Aside from that, I knwo Sootchucker has been lurking on the G20 forum as well... :grin:
If you do go for nearly new, make sure you have a 'proper' look at the car as this is a shocking case recently of an approved used BMW that had been badly repaired - https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1706667
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Don't get too hung up on the £40k thing. The first years VED is included in the OTR prices, and years 2-5, whilst seem like a lot of money to pay out, only equate to a trip to Starbucks each week. And let's face it, none of us will be doing as much of that for a good while.
I've tried not to get too hung up on it but £475... thats a lot of Starbucks :grin: :grin:
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Don't get too hung up on the £40k thing. The first years VED is included in the OTR prices, and years 2-5, whilst seem like a lot of money to pay out, only equate to a trip to Starbucks each week. And let's face it, none of us will be doing as much of that for a good while.
I've tried not to get too hung up on it but £475... thats a lot of Starbucks :grin: :grin:
It softens the blow a tiny bit if you think of it as £325 a year extra, because you would've been paying £150 anyway.
I think this tax redefines the meaning of the term "highway robbery".
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Don't get too hung up on the £40k thing. The first years VED is included in the OTR prices, and years 2-5, whilst seem like a lot of money to pay out, only equate to a trip to Starbucks each week. And let's face it, none of us will be doing as much of that for a good while.
I've tried not to get too hung up on it but £475... thats a lot of Starbucks :grin: :grin:
It softens the blow a tiny bit if you think of it as £325 a year extra, because you would've been paying £150 anyway.
I think this tax redefines the meaning of the term "highway robbery".
I like your man maths. Totally forgot about that.
Thanks. :grin:
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Hi Sootchucker- I have seen your post on the BabyBMW forum- I have mentioned it on here but I went from a Mk7 Gti to a F40 M135i Xdrive.
I am really pleased with it, although I picked it up just before lockdown I have managed about 1500 essential miles and am really happy with it. Its loosening up now and feeling better as the miles go on it.
Mine is a Misano Blue with Tech pack 2 and the M pack, so 19s and obviously no adaptive,on my Golf I had 18s with no adaptive- the roads around here a pretty rubbish but I dont think it is any harsher ride in the 135, it feels a stiffer shell to me than the Golf but that's all.I doubt you would be disappointed with it.
The gearbox is similar IMO to the DSG and you have to really think about what its doing to see/feel much difference between the two.
Fuel wise I have only been getting 23ish mpg but I really have only used it for short journeys so I dont think is a real representation- my golf used to hover around 29-30ish.
The tech is great, the HUD is brilliant-the only slightly crap part for me is as an android phone user there is no Android car play (or whatever its called) but its supposedly coming via an over the air update.
The alcantara seats I love - I like these and wasn't bothered about the leather, but I got mine pre price rise and RRP was £39990 at the time as I wanted to be able to buy more coffee instead of road tax!! :grin:
I got around 17% off the RRP including the £1500 BMW contribution for the finance which I settled off after a couple of days.
Our dealer lent me a demo for the weekend- I would suggest trying to do something like this if you can. Looking at the MK8 Golf I cant see you regretting it. Good luck!
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Out of interest, re the "luxury" car tax for cars with a list price over £40k, does the list price include the on the road costs. As a for instance. I'm potentially still looking at a BMW M135i.
Say the list price including all options and VAT (but without the on the road costs), come in at £39,995.00, but the on the road costs (Delivery and BMW emergency services, Number plates, car 1st registration fee and 1st years VED totals (as it does in this case) £1,775.00, does the car get valued for tax at the £39,995.00 or £41,770.00 (including the on the road costs), pushing it into the luxury car bracket ?
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The 40k definitely does not include the first year's tax, which is part of the OTR price.
So your list price can actually be £40529 OTR and be under the £40K....
That was advice given to me by TRL....
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I got fed up as there never seemed to be a precise definition on what was included that I found this in a DVLA briefing on VED:
The list price or notional price includes the price of any non-standard option fitted by the manufacturer before delivery to the dealer/retailer. The list price also includes any delivery charges for the vehicle, including any pre-delivery inspection costs (PDI) and VAT.
I’ve decided that the £40,000 price threshold is something that I want to keep under for the more reasonable annual VED. The extra £325 (at present) just adds more expense which I’m trying to avoid with the march of other expenses (non-car)
Also helpful in making an arbitrary cut off to narrow future choices, well for me anyway. Just helping me come up with the shortlist.
Very interesting to read all your thoughts on M135i as it’s one of my possibilities as well.
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Another point. When I was calculating the value (prior to adding options) it came out the same as P11d value. So that might be the quick way as a starting point to work out what spare capacity there is for options before you reach £40,000 threshold.
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I’ve decided that the £40,000 price threshold is something that I want to keep under for the more reasonable annual VED. The extra £325 (at present) just adds more expense which I’m trying to avoid with the march of other expenses (non-car)
Some might question the need for a new car if it's stretching the budget to the point that £6.25 per week makes a difference?
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I’ve decided that the £40,000 price threshold is something that I want to keep under for the more reasonable annual VED. The extra £325 (at present) just adds more expense which I’m trying to avoid with the march of other expenses (non-car)
Some might question the need for a new car if it's stretching the budget to the point that £6.25 per week makes a difference?
Ok, call me tight but I'd question an option which cost £1500 - wouldn't you?
If that option was a go faster stripe or some different coloured carpet or even DCC (lol).
I'd definitely not want to pay it if I didn't even get some pointless crap I could add to my signature on a forum.
I sometimes wonder if this forum isn't some sort of millionaires club I've wandered into while wearing my overalls, hardhat and safety boots.
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I’ve decided that the £40,000 price threshold is something that I want to keep under for the more reasonable annual VED. The extra £325 (at present) just adds more expense which I’m trying to avoid with the march of other expenses (non-car)
Some might question the need for a new car if it's stretching the budget to the point that £6.25 per week makes a difference?
Ok, call me tight but I'd question an option which cost £1500 - wouldn't you?
If that option was a go faster stripe or some different coloured carpet or even DCC (lol).
I'd definitely not want to pay it if I didn't even get some pointless crap I could add to my signature on a forum.
I sometimes wonder if this forum isn't some sort of millionaires club I've wandered into while wearing my overalls, hardhat and safety boots.
You're absolutely spot on there Fred. To add an option that bumps you over that threshold needlessly and ultimately costs you an extra £1300 over the following 4 years is pretty pointless. It could be a £200 option that's ultimately costing you £1500, or a £1500 option that's ultimately costing you £2800.
The MK7.5 Golf GTI/GTD/R comes as standard with 95% of the toys anyone could want for £250-300 a month depreciation (lets not consider PCP interest here, not everyone PCPs). To add a few more toys and you can easily be up to £450 a month. Those toys bump up the monthlies significantly and very few retain or add value (Prets on an R being the notable exception).
It's easy to say it's just £6.25 a week. Most people get paid monthly, which makes the sum of £27.08 a month a little more significant. Still not a huge sum, but an easily avoidable sum. If a salesperson told me that my £900 (or whatever they are now) Prets were going to cost me £2200 (inc luxury VED), i'd leave that box unpicked and buy a set separately.
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Some might question the need for a new car if it's stretching the budget to the point that £6.25 per week makes a difference?
Ok, call me tight but I'd question an option which cost £1500 - wouldn't you?
If that option was a go faster stripe or some different coloured carpet or even DCC (lol).
I'd definitely not want to pay it if I didn't even get some pointless crap I could add to my signature on a forum.
I sometimes wonder if this forum isn't some sort of millionaires club I've wandered into while wearing my overalls, hardhat and safety boots.
That last line did make me laugh but I kind of understand what dubber36 is trying to say.
It was only in reply to Andy saying he has trying to avoid expenses with other non-car expenses he already has.
Yes all non standard options aren't essential and are pointless to some but not others but I guess if the slight increase in VED for going over a £40k limit is the defining factor on affordability then yes maybe you shouldn't be buying a car of that value. Don't think it has to do with being a millionaire but more just common sense. I have too many other costs currently so wouldn't even consider a £40k car (well tbh I wouldn't consider a £20k one either just yet). Although those costs aren't technically stopping me from buying another car as I could afford it ultimately.
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Yes all non standard options aren't essential and are pointless to some but not others but I guess if the slight increase in VED for going over a £40k limit is the defining factor on affordability then yes maybe you shouldn't be buying a car of that value. Don't think it has to do with being a millionaire but more just common sense. I have too many other costs currently so wouldn't even consider a £40k car (well tbh I wouldn't consider a £20k one either just yet). Although those costs aren't technically stopping me from buying another car as I could afford it ultimately.
I think you might have to thumb through a thesaurus to look up the meaning of "slight" :grin:
£150 annual VED or £475 VED, the difference is not slight by any means and the difference to me is about how much my car insurance should be costing.
It is as much about common sense for some as it is about affordability for others when £200 over the threshold essentially costs £1500.
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For me it's just another rip off tax dream't up by politicians to bolster their coffers. Another tax on top of all the other indirect taxes that we are forced to pay on a daily basis. So, whilst I may be cutting my nose off to spite my face (insofar as I don't quite get to drive my ideal spec car), I refuse out of principle to pay it!
Back on topic, and having come from 3 BMW's prior to my current GTI, the BMW looks to be a cracking car and will certainly be on my list come car change time - whilst of course ensuring the list price was below £40k.
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For me it's just another rip off tax dream't up by politicians to bolster their coffers. Another tax on top of all the other indirect taxes that we are forced to pay on a daily basis. So, whilst I may be cutting my nose off to spite my face (insofar as I don't quite get to drive my ideal spec car), I refuse out of principle to pay it!
Back on topic, and having come from 3 BMW's prior to my current GTI, the BMW looks to be a cracking car and will certainly be on my list come car change time - whilst of course ensuring the list price was below £40k.
As that £40k threshold isn't going up but new car prices are, you're quite likely to get stung for it in future.
This seems like the Government's payback for all those £0 and £20 VED rates that were around from 2012 to 2017 bult cars.
So what's going to happen when we all go electric and the Goverment aren't getting 80p tax on every litre of petrol and diesel between duty and VAT? They'll ream it out of us elsewhere - probably by doubling or tripling electricity prices so we're still paying 10-15p a mile to fuel our cars, or a huge showroom tax.
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Over the last 6ish years I have been here, we have repeatedly shouted about A FORTY GRAND GOLF!!
But that is where we are at with that sort of car now.
Electric cars, even more expensive too.
In fact, unless something radical happens, electric cars are going to price a lot of people off of the road. Which is fine if you are a city slicker, less fine if you are living in rural UK.
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Don't know whether any of this "Millionaires club" or "get some pointless crap I could add to my signature on a forum" banter was actually aimed at me or not, but it's water off a ducks back to me (don't worry, if it was aimed at me, I've taken no offence :D ).
I'm at the time of life where I want to have nice things, and finally have a little money to afford them (which I didn't have when I was younger). Mortgage was paid off years ago, no kids to leave the "inheritance" to, don't (and never had) smoke, rarely drink and don't gamble. Aside from Photography (my other big passion), cars are my only vice.
In fact taking smoking, as an example, a pack of ciggys is now what £13 a pack. Even if you are a lightish smoker and only go though 2 packs a week (my brother for example), that's £1,352.00 per year going up in smoke (literally). So whilst I would obviously like to NOT incur the £40k luxury tax, if it means the difference between getting a car with all the options I want (and can afford) or compromising and not actually getting the spec you really want, I'll take the former.
Now I will admit, that if the price including options takes me just a few hundred over the tax level, then of course I'll try and bring it down to below 40k by seeing what can be removed. But if my choice of options take me a few thousand over the 40k and I'd have to remove many options I wanted to get the car I really like, then I'll pay it.
It may seem daft even stupid to some, but it is after all our own money, and we decide how it's to be spent. That fact that others will disagree with me and think I'm bonkers is absolutely fine, and I take zero offence, as it's each to their own.
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Yes all non standard options aren't essential and are pointless to some but not others but I guess if the slight increase in VED for going over a £40k limit is the defining factor on affordability then yes maybe you shouldn't be buying a car of that value. Don't think it has to do with being a millionaire but more just common sense. I have too many other costs currently so wouldn't even consider a £40k car (well tbh I wouldn't consider a £20k one either just yet). Although those costs aren't technically stopping me from buying another car as I could afford it ultimately.
I think you might have to thumb through a thesaurus to look up the meaning of "slight" :grin:
£150 annual VED or £475 VED, the difference is not slight by any means and the difference to me is about how much my car insurance should be costing.
It is as much about common sense for some as it is about affordability for others when £200 over the threshold essentially costs £1500.
I don't need to look it up thank you. But when compared to a £40k car (or the monthlies being paid on that £40k car) yes it is a slight increase
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So what's going to happen when we all go electric and the Goverment aren't getting 80p tax on every litre of petrol and diesel between duty and VAT? They'll ream it out of us elsewhere - probably by doubling or tripling electricity prices so we're still paying 10-15p a mile to fuel our cars, or a huge showroom tax.
That's when road pricing will be introduced. The government and advisers keep talking about it as a way to soften us up for when they introduce it because duty and VAT revenues on petrol and diesel seriously start to decline.
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Don't know whether any of this "Millionaires club" or "get some pointless crap I could add to my signature on a forum" banter was actually aimed at me or not, but it's water off a ducks back to me (don't worry, if it was aimed at me, I've taken no offence :D ).
I'm at the time of life where I want to have nice things, and finally have a little money to afford them (which I didn't have when I was younger). Mortgage was paid off years ago, no kids to leave the "inheritance" to, don't (and never had) smoke, rarely drink and don't gamble. Aside from Photography (my other big passion), cars are my only vice.
In fact taking smoking, as an example, a pack of ciggys is now what £13 a pack. Even if you are a lightish smoker and only go though 2 packs a week (my brother for example), that's £1,352.00 per year going up in smoke (literally). So whilst I would obviously like to NOT incur the £40k luxury tax, if it means the difference between getting a car with all the options I want (and can afford) or compromising and not actually getting the spec you really want, I'll take the former.
Now I will admit, that if the price including options takes me just a few hundred over the tax level, then of course I'll try and bring it down to below 40k by seeing what can be removed. But if my choice of options take me a few thousand over the 40k and I'd have to remove many options I wanted to get the car I really like, then I'll pay it.
It may seem daft even stupid to some, but it is after all our own money, and we decide how it's to be spent. That fact that others will disagree with me and think I'm bonkers is absolutely fine, and I take zero offence, as it's each to their own.
well said Andrew. What people choose to spend on a car is entirely up to them and if people don't agree then fine but it's approaching bullying sometimes with some of the idiotic comments on here. No one person is right or wrong it's why we are individuals.
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So what's going to happen when we all go electric and the Goverment aren't getting 80p tax on every litre of petrol and diesel between duty and VAT? They'll ream it out of us elsewhere - probably by doubling or tripling electricity prices so we're still paying 10-15p a mile to fuel our cars, or a huge showroom tax.
That's when road pricing will be introduced. The government and advisers keep talking about it as a way to soften us up for when they introduce it because duty and VAT revenues on petrol and diesel seriously start to decline.
At that point I hope they do the right thing and either:
1: Scrap Duty on petrol/deisel and charge all cars the same for road use.
or
2. Charge electric cars for using the roads but not ICE cars as they're still being taxed to buggery on the fuel.
I think 1 would be most palatable for all drivers, but when did that ever bother a British government (Tory or Labour)?
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Don't know whether any of this "Millionaires club" or "get some pointless crap I could add to my signature on a forum" banter was actually aimed at me or not, but it's water off a ducks back to me (don't worry, if it was aimed at me, I've taken no offence :D ).
I'm at the time of life where I want to have nice things, and finally have a little money to afford them (which I didn't have when I was younger). Mortgage was paid off years ago, no kids to leave the "inheritance" to, don't (and never had) smoke, rarely drink and don't gamble. Aside from Photography (my other big passion), cars are my only vice.
In fact taking smoking, as an example, a pack of ciggys is now what £13 a pack. Even if you are a lightish smoker and only go though 2 packs a week (my brother for example), that's £1,352.00 per year going up in smoke (literally). So whilst I would obviously like to NOT incur the £40k luxury tax, if it means the difference between getting a car with all the options I want (and can afford) or compromising and not actually getting the spec you really want, I'll take the former.
Now I will admit, that if the price including options takes me just a few hundred over the tax level, then of course I'll try and bring it down to below 40k by seeing what can be removed. But if my choice of options take me a few thousand over the 40k and I'd have to remove many options I wanted to get the car I really like, then I'll pay it.
It may seem daft even stupid to some, but it is after all our own money, and we decide how it's to be spent. That fact that others will disagree with me and think I'm bonkers is absolutely fine, and I take zero offence, as it's each to their own.
well said Andrew. What people choose to spend on a car is entirely up to them and if people don't agree then fine but it's approaching bullying sometimes with some of the idiotic comments on here. No one person is right or wrong it's why we are individuals.
I totally get the financial argument that most options are worth diddly squat when the time comes to sell a well optioned car, and buying them in the first place can risk pushing the list price over £40k and into luxury VED territory. However IMO, for many people there’s an ‘enjoyment factor’ associated with some options on a car that’s pretty much impossible to put a monetary value on, so the purchase decision comes down to more than just cost.
I usually select a few extra cost options when I buy a car, but I do try to exercise restraint when doing this. My one extravagant extra cost option was on my mk6 GTD when I went for the optional xenon headlamps that, from memory, cost around £1,100 at the time. I never regretted having speccing the xenons, and IMO they certainly added to the overall ownership experience, but it does now mean that xenon - or more probably these days LED headlamps - would be a minimum requirement on any car I bought. Probably not an issue though as technology has moved on, and many cars now come with LED headlamps as standard.
I tend to adopt the philosophy of ‘if you can afford it and you’d like to have it, then go for it!’. I grew up in an age where saving up for a major purchase was the norm, so I wouldn’t ever overstretch myself financially. However, as a friend of mine says ‘you’re a long time dead and you can’t take it with you’ so if I want something, and it’s affordable to me, I buy it.
So to those who want certain non-standard features when speccing a new car, I’d say go for it!
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I guess I should appologise if I ruffled anyone up the wrong way.
I was just trying to make the point that the luxury tax is a big pile of money for nothing.
I get that when you order your fully loaded Range Rover for 80+ grand that you don't give a fig, but its a bit much on "the people's car" don't you think? Whether than is the OEM's pricing to blame or HMG is another discussion...
Tax is mainly used as a disincentive - tax on smoking, tax on alcohol, tax on flying etc etc
This is just tax on an archaic point in the value scale. At the very least it needs the threshold to rise with RPI.
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I think the banter has more to do with how crazy VW prices have got lately. It's a bubble waiting to burst.
It's nuts to think that a Golf, any Golf should be within a whisker of £40k in standard spec.
VWs used to be a bit more expensive than most of the pack, but with decent discounts and very strong residuals. This used to make them reasonable to PCP.
Prices have shot up, residuals have dropped slightly and the discounts haven't gotten bigger to compensate.
VW must know that they're pushing hard on what the market will bear. It's almost unheard of for VW to do 0% finance like they did for the runout MK7.5s. If they hadn't put that offer out, you'd be looking at the fat end of £600 a month for a TCR after putting a 10% deposit down at the usual 6% APR.
I seriously doubt the market will bear that for the MK8. Either the 0% offers need to continue or the discounts need to be deeper if the used market won't bear higher residuals.
These crazy RRPs that nobody pays help no-one. It's fine for DFS sofas and oak furniture land to perpetually sell their wares at "half price" because there's no RRP super tax to pay on that "£800" coffee table you paid £350 for.
The car market needs to correct itself, especially VW.
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oh wow. Sorry for starting something over the £40K threshold. I was only trying to say how I would approach my next car buying budget constraints.
I agree whole heartedly on the points made: We are all individuals; Spend money on what we like; and its only £6.25 a week (So I am certainly not making any point about any other car buying thoughts, in fact Sootchucker put it very well. If some options put you just over, might need to reconsider but if all the options are wanted then you would go ahead to get full enjoyment on the spec of car that you want. That seems totally reasonable to me.
It was only my thoughts that I would have a ceiling of £40K and the threshold mattered. Its easy to wrap the whole car plus on the road costs into the purchase price and not think about the future ongoing costs in this case, an extra £325 a year.
So in my ideal world I would have a new Golf R in Lapiz Blue, with DCC and HUD. Will that come in under £40K (I think it will be very close or just over. So when we finally see the prices, I will have to decide what is important to me. The alternative is maybe a Clubsport/TCR equivalent with the options but different colour obviously. That could be cheaper and hopefully not so close to £40K (I'm assuming VW UK won't decide they all have to be spec'd with Akrapovic Exhausts).
So apologises that I caused consternation on the extra VED money. With this in mind I will keep my personal thoughts on 19" wheels to myself for another time. That might just push you all over the edge :grin:
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So apologises that I caused consternation on the extra VED money. With this in mind I will keep my personal thoughts on 19" wheels to myself for another time. That might just push you all over the edge :grin:
Ah go on, I'm just lurking anyway, been enjoying it so far :whistle: :laugh:
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I guess I should appologise if I ruffled anyone up the wrong way.
I was just trying to make the point that the luxury tax is a big pile of money for nothing.
I get that when you order your fully loaded Range Rover for 80+ grand that you don't give a fig, but its a bit much on "the people's car" don't you think? Whether than is the OEM's pricing to blame or HMG is another discussion...
Tax is mainly used as a disincentive - tax on smoking, tax on alcohol, tax on flying etc etc
This is just tax on an archaic point in the value scale. At the very least it needs the threshold to rise with RPI.
Fred it's cool. I know you never meant anything detrimental towards me, and yes I agree, the £40k luxury tax is a rip off. Why are EV now exempt from this and yet still use the roads and therefore wear them out just like ICE card do. Aren't we already being taxed to the hilt on the duty built into fuel cost (isn't it something like 85% tax or something), which EV cars don't pay.
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oh wow. Sorry for starting something over the £40K threshold. I was only trying to say how I would approach my next car buying budget constraints.
Not an issue Andy, it's all good banter and makes for an interesting conversation.
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Sootchucker: It's unsustainable for EVs to get (almost) a free ride, once even 10% of the cars on the road are EVs. When everyone is charging their EVs overnight at home (those that have a driveway/off-street parking), those 5p a kW between midnight and 4am electricity deals will be no more. The Government can't afford to lose that revenue. Tgere'll be electronic toll gates every couple of hundred yards tracking every mile you do, although it's harder to get payment after the fact than in advance. I wonder how the goverment will deal with non-payers?
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Ev is only exempt of the luxury car tax until 2025. I suspect at that point the taxation on Ev will be decided... And it ain't gonna be free.
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Ev is only exempt of the luxury car tax until 2025. I suspect at that point the taxation on Ev will be decided... And it ain't gonna be free.
Definitely not. If you could build your own kit car that ran on solar power, the government would find a way to tax sunlight! :grin:
There's a healthy revenue stream in car taxation and they will find a way to maintain it - there'll be a "Cobalt" tax on EV batteries or something similar! :laugh:
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What annoys me about the “luxury” car tax is that it doesn’t seem to rise with inflation each year
,meaning its more of a rip off as cars increase in price.
Personally I think it should start at 50k as it’s very easy to get an everyday shopping trolley to 40k nowadays.
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Tyre tax. A tyre is good for say 10k miles, whatever the fuel duty is on 10k at an average MPG, add that much to the price of a tyre :whistle:
I'm mailing my suggestion to HMRC.
Bicylce tyres will be included :)
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Tyre tax. A tyre is good for say 10k miles, whatever the fuel duty is on 10k at an average MPG, add that much to the price of a tyre :whistle:
I'm mailing my suggestion to HMRC.
Bicylce tyres will be included :)
That would make for a very expensive puncture! Even more people would be pinching wheels off cars...but for the tyres, but we could disincentives the wheel/tyre thieves by putting a huge tax on bricks, and then.... :grin:
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Tyre tax. A tyre is good for say 10k miles, whatever the fuel duty is on 10k at an average MPG, add that much to the price of a tyre :whistle:
I'm mailing my suggestion to HMRC.
Bicylce tyres will be included :)
I'm not standing for that. I'm lucky to get 3000 miles out of my tyres, and they're £50-60 a pop as it is.
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I didnt want to pay the "luxury tax" so thats why when I specced mine I kept it under the £40k by £10,(actually it was a little more after the road tax etc was deducted) if it wasnt for the tax rule I would have added a pan roof (£1000 I think on an M135) but didnt want to pay an extra £1750 in inflated road tax on top for a £1k option.
I specced the M pack and the Tech pack at £1500 per pack and a metallic to make a very well equipped (IMO) car. HUD, 19"s misano blue all on it. The HUD is great btw.
As said earlier, yeah, if you are spending thousands over the £40k then its just something thats probably not even a consideration but for cars like we are talking about here then if I can not pay it then I would prefer not to.
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We'll back on track with the initial posting of the thread, the M135i, I managed for the first time yesterday to have a good couple of hours drive in an M135i with my preferred choice of 19" alloys (of course minus adaptive dampers which you weirdly can't spec with 19" wheels).
It's so easy to get carried away with the new tech in these cars and think how far ahead they are compared to the MK7.5 (which in some instances they are), but you just have to remember that the F40 BMW 1 series is less than a year old and the MK7 platform is 7-8 years old, so there would be something very wrong if the BMW didn't feel newer ?
There's a lot written about how the M135i slams the VW for quality (especially the interior), but TBH, I've found it a bit of a wash between the two of them. So briefly below I'll summarise the goods and bad points for both cars (trying to be fair)
BMW M135I
Good
- Lots of high tech kit
- great driving position (though no better than the golf)
- Very fast (but then R owners will probably be less impressed)
- Very sure footed
- Very quiet (low road and wind noise)
- Excellent B&O stereo which blows the Dynaudio away (and my Dynaudio is very good)
- HUD is superb
- Seats very comfortable and slightly better so than the GTI with the fact the BMW has extended squab and electrically adjustable side bolsters.
- Superb ambient lighting set up with lighting to front / rear as well as centre console. Also 5 colours to choose from.
- Great to be able to control the multimedia centre from either touchscreen or the superb IDrive wheel
- Both Apple CarPlay and Android Auto (when it comes) are both wireless
Not so good
- Quite thirsty (only managed 29 mpg with very careful driving) - a moot point I suppose as you don't buy these cars for economy
- Too much alcantera on the insides. Prefer VW's implementation with alcantera on the seats base and back rests, with everything else (door cards, rear of seat, side bolsters etc.) leather. Leather option on the BMW makes the interior too dark in my view.
- Fabric insert on door cards felt hard and scratchy
- Plastics lower down felt harder and poorer quality than the GTI, and no fleck lined door bins either.
- Very thick A-Pillar
- Don't care what people say, the active info display on the VW might not be the best implementation but for clarity is light years ahead of the that in the BMW, which I just find plain hard to read and clacks clarity (I would definitely need HUD to improve this).
- Lots of people on forums experiencing new car gremlins like electrical and software issues
- No android auto (though to be fair I understand it's being pushed out now via a software update)
- When specc'd to a similar level as my GTI very expensive and exceeds the £40k VED threshold.
- Rear view camera and load through (with rear armrest) and lumbar support not standard but options.
- No front fog lamps (like the R), not that I’ve used them on the GTI that much.
- No overhead sunglasses holder.
GTI
Good
- Still feels very taught and modern looking, and especially looks great with the red accents in the lights and grill.
- Adaptive dampers on my car give the GTI a great ride especially on 19" wheels. Now to be fair the BMW on 19's with it's passive dampers rides very well (firmer yes, but not crashy), but not as fluid or smooth as the GTI
- My car has the heated windscreen which is superb in winter and BMW doesn't have that as an option. Although they do counter with a heated steering wheel.
- ACC standard but on the BMW is only part of the assistance package (for £1000). Also, weirdly, in the literature for the adaptive cruise control in the BMW it states "This function can be limited by darkness and fog" (never seen that before) ?
- Although the M135i is obviously fast, it didn't feel like night and day against the GTI (weird, maybe I wasn't trying hard enough)
- Has Car Play and Android Auto free of change (which I think BMW have only just stared doing)
- As mentioned above has a much clearer digital display than the BMW, with coloured detail maps showing up in the centre, unlike the M135i which shows a vert simply monochrome "line" drawing of the map.
- Some lower level plastics actually feel better.
- Don't care what the figures say, with the drivers seat in my position, there is more rear legroom in the GTI than an M135i with the seat positioned similarly.might be to do with the M135i coming with sculptured sport seats with integrated head rests ?
- No option for space saver spare wheel on the M135i with 19" alloys unlike the GTI (just a tin of gloop)
- Obviously cheaper to insure and run than the M135i
- Better steering weight and feel than in the BMW
- Rear camera not exposed but comes out of the VW emblem to keep it clean and protected.
Not so good
- On board tech and sat nav for example starting to look a little old
- Ambient lighting setup on the GTI not as advanced, configurable or pretty as the BMW
- Noisier inside than the BMW bit that doesn’t mean the GTI is loud, just the BMW quieter.
- Can't have electric seats in the GTI unless you spec the hideously expensive leather upholstery, but in the BMW you still can with cloth (alcantera)
- Overall just (just) starting to feel it's age now -but still a great car)
- Much smaller choice of options (e.g. wheels) than the BMW
- No online software updates unlike the BMW which would therefore mean a trip to the dealers.
- Infotainment screen mounted lower down than the BMW, and combined with the option HUD makes it easier to not take your eyes off the road when driving.
- Apparently BMW water pumps aren’t made of chocolate unlike VW :D
So there you have it. The jury is still out, but it just shows for an older car, how good the GTI still is, but how much better the MK8 could have been (without touch everything interface) ? The M135i is a superb car, but maybe doesn't beat the MK7.5 down in all areas as I had incorrectly seemed, assumed? This is not going to be an easy decision.
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Really interesting stuff there. My cousin has the 140 and insists that the new 135 isn’t actually a bmw! Anyway, I’d love to test drive the 135. Interior looks very nice, especially the seats.
Understand what you mean about it not seeming to be night and day between the gti and 135. I felt the same between the R and gti. It took me a long time to choose between them despite one being faster on paper. It’s when you really plant your foot hard that the difference is there imo.
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To be fair, you'd have to compare the BMW to the R for most of what you've written.
My own thoughts aren't dissimilar. I think bmw miss a trick though but not having a gti equivalent. They have built arguably a better golf than vw (not just the m135i but the range) but have missed a 240bhp fwd variant.
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Great review. Thanks.
I wouldn't expect there to be a great difference speed wise between the 135 and the GTI or at least the feeling of speed.
When driving the wife's GTI I always feel it is much more nimble and lighter and gives the impression of speed whereas the R just feels like a lump of wood but shifts.
I'd imagine the 135 feels more like the R
Did you get to drive it on your own for a couple of hours?
I think we take the standard options in the Golf for granted and its not until you go to another marque that you realise VW have done a decent job with the performance golfs standard equipment.
I remember my colleagues picking BMW 1 series for their leased cars for work years ago and the base spec didn't even come with a radio.
I suppose the Golf has evolved as the rear view camera and keyless entry / start were also a paid for extra. I do wonder though if they will keep that going for the MK8
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Great review. Thanks.
I wouldn't expect there to be a great difference speed wise between the 135 and the GTI or at least the feeling of speed.
When driving the wife's GTI I always feel it is much more nimble and lighter and gives the impression of speed whereas the R just feels like a lump of wood but shifts.
I'd imagine the 135 feels more like the R
Did you get to drive it on your own for a couple of hours?
I think we take the standard options in the Golf for granted and its not until you go to another marque that you realise VW have done a decent job with the performance golfs standard equipment.
I remember my colleagues picking BMW 1 series for their leased cars for work years ago and the base spec didn't even come with a radio.
I suppose the Golf has evolved as the rear view camera and keyless entry / start were also a paid for extra. I do wonder though if they will keep that going for the MK8
Yes, just the wife and me in the car.
Well, the decisions been made and I’m sticking with the GTI (for now at least). Nothing to do with the Beemer which is a great car, but after having a chat today with my UK director, it seems that managers like me (I.e. in our 50’s), that are fully set up with home offices (which I am), are not going to be asked to return to the office until the end of the year ( maybe even Jan) at the earliest, so will continue to work from home as I have been since March. Without my usual commute to work, my monthly mileage is currently about 70-100 per month at best, and I can’t see that increasing much until the end of the year or next.
So it therefore seems pointless to have a £44k new car sat on the driveway for 95% of the week. I’ll revisit this towards the end of the year. So the GTI has a reprieve, and to be honest, part of me is sorta relieved as it is a great car.
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Skip this if you’re easily bored.
Funny this thread should crop up, a few weeks ago I thought by the time I’d dropped by here I’d be well on the way to M135i ownership too.
Jump back to around February and a kitten tripping avoidance manoeuvre in my kitchen resulted in a trapped nerve and massive back pain for months.
First it was constant but it’s gradually eased though still comes on suddenly and has manifested into a different type of back pain and also knee pain!
Basically I’m getting old.
There’s something in the settings of the TCR’s DCC that means I really struggle to drive it now. When the car hits a sudden change of surface there’s a kind of shockwave that hits me right in the lower spine and sends intense pain up my back and down my legs. Comfort, Normal, Sport, it happens in all settings.
After doing 1000 miles a month in the car right through the winter in complete comfort I was forced to furlough it in March despite having to work through “lockdown” myself. My other car is fine to drive despite still having fairly firm suspension and is driven with reasonable verve, aside from the clutch pedal hurting my geriatric knee some days. No back pain at all in that one aside from generally having a stiff back making me look like a 90 year old getting in and out.
The TCR, bought as a daily driver, has ended up like my Clubsport and R (previous cars) being relegated to very occasional use. The latter two mostly through choice though as I lived very near work back then where as now I have a 26 mile a day round trip.
Yes, I should probably see a doctor or chiropractor but there’s really no point.
Plenty of time spent on my own recently so I decided to do something about the car situation.
Some intense research, phone calls and emails, then some dealer visits.
The M135i was the car I *should* have bought last year really. I knew it then and I know it now.
For some reason I wanted to hold on to my VW roots so ended up with the TCR after being offered a pretty good deal. That will have evaporated into highish financial loss if I bin the TCR off now but what will be will be. I don’t have other expensive pastimes so will take it on the chin.
There were a few decent priced late 2019 M135i’s on forecourts with very low mileages (Ex-showroom cars and dealership staff lease cars) before the dealerships closed and these were snapped up quickly as soon as the staff arrived back on site.
The hunt for one of those in the spec I want proved fruitless.
There are some huge discounts on new factory cars but the usual six week BMW lead times are now much longer plus they’ve just hiked the list prices by a monkey pushing the spec I want into the luxury tax bracket, and I’m really not prepared to pay £500 a year road tax for something I’m not utterly in love with.
White paint, Plus Pack and Tech Pack1 should just see it under the £40k and they look good in white so I’d settle for that. It’d have to be a factory order though and the other downside would be everyone thinking I’m a copper.
With maximum allowed deposit paid, the monthlies are quite low on a two year PCP so that’s one option to avoid paying the silly high road tax too often. It’s a consideration.
Speaking to dealers far and wide there are certainly big discounts and decently priced forecourt stock considering how new to the market the car is, and from what I’ve seen there’s no lack of demand for the cars either, they seem to be being snapped up if they’re in the right spec.
They seem popular with former VW and Audi drivers it appears from talking to the sales guys.
That ties in with my impressions when I test drove one last year.
Despite looking very different to a Golf inside and out you can tell BMW used VW’s baby as their benchmark in the general feel of the car. In fact my overall impression was that it felt hewn from solid like an earlier generation of Golf rather than the lighter footed mk7. It felt more Golf than a Golf does these days.
Refusing to allow BMW to monopolise my field of vision I checked in to VW to scope out a very low mileage 2019 Golf R.
I’d previously lived with a Golf R for 18 months so know it doesn’t have the same jolt the TCR inflicts on me at times.
I really wasn’t keen to go back over old ground, but money talks and I have nothing but fond memories of my Golf R.
Oh, and the one I went to view was white too!
The dealership were very keen to take my TCR into stock as they’re struggling to find late low mileage desirable stock (similar to when there was severely restricted supply during the WLTP fiasco).
Alas they didn’t want it bad enough to offer me decent money and never followed me up.
In fact they hiked their own car up by £1400 overnight but would have sold it to me at the original ticket price. To be fair that dealership‘s sales side are an arrogant bunch and it would have pained me to buy a car from them.
At the end of the day I’ve trodden the mk7 boards for nigh on seven years now and the R felt a bit of a stale recipe after living with a TCR. I don’t mean that in a negative way, I’ve nothing but admiration for the R and if I still owned one now it wouldn’t hurt my back and so I’d happily keep it until the mk8 R shows up, so I could make an informed decision on where to go from there, be it keep the mk7 or search out an alternative that has actually moved the game on.
However, owning a TCR with those small but significant special bits of trim makes the rest of the range seem a little bland.
I did spend a bit of time looking over the mk8’s in the dealership.
There were a couple in a light grey like TCR grey and one in black.
I dislike black cars having owned several as they’re a massive pain to keep on top of and look shabby very quickly in daily use, but the Mk8 looks best in black unlike the mk7 which I think looks the worst in that colour/shade (sorry black lovers, just a personal opinion).
When they launch the GTI and R mk8’s there’ll be a lot of play on the amazing development put in at the Nurburgring making it the best Golf ever.
Well, if you have a racetrack local to you where you spend a lot of time then great.
Honestly, as a Golf owner for well over 30 years who has crawled over every inch of every series of Golf since the mk1 I can tell you there’s been a fair bit of penny pinching in the new design (that’s not actually all that new underneath).
Maybe with some decent styling and a power hike the R can actually redeem the design. I hope so, I really do.
Nipping across the road to Audi brought up a surprise wildcard.
The first car I noticed and wanted a quick look at was a new A3.
On the outside the new front end looks good but the very low nose like the Golf 8, Leon et al makes it look a little awkward so they’ve tried to disguise the feature by adding caricature sized bits of honeycomb grille sections to add presence. It kind of works.
Inside I was shocked at how the quality levels in certain areas have dropped from the outgoing model.
I couldn’t go inside the actual car but there has been massive cost cutting going on even when viewed just looking at it through the open door. It looked more A1 than A3, the centre console area especially.
Funnily enough the wildcard was the outgoing model S3.
It’s a car I’ve always overlooked and bluntly dismissed.
To me, from launch, the MQB S3 looked like an S-Line TDI with the abhorrent use of chrome around the windows being the final nail in the coffin as far as I’m concerned.
However coming unexpectedly face to face with a 69 plate Black Edition S3 Sportback in Mythos(?) black I was stunned at what a pretty car it could be in the flesh.
No chrome!
And that interior with the super-sports seats is in a league of its own. Way more upmarket feeling than the plasticky new model’s.
This one had analogue dials but another plainer looking example in dark blue in the dealership had the digital dash (customer car so couldn’t get a proper close look) which looked more funky than the 7.5 Golf AID.
The downside of the S3 was thats it’s an old model now but was priced higher than similar age M135i’s and A35’s.
Yes, the A35 next.
Whizzing over to the Merc dealerships sees the A35 in short supply and holding their values surprisingly well.
Even company car basic lease spec ones on a 19 plate are quite highly priced and seem to be snapped up quickly. Bodykitted ones fly out of the door. They’re in big demand.
Again, the criminal use of chrome on a hot hatch ruins the basic cars looks, the less basic ones are sodding expensive and there don’t seem to be great deals on them.
The A35 is a pretty car both inside and out (by new generation standards) but there’s something not right about it I can’t put my finger on. Maybe it’s the fact it wears an AMG badge and yet is not any more powerful than a mk7 Golf R. Meh.
An intense but fruitless search.
There remains an unused TCR sat in my garage, and every time I lift the door it strikes me that it’s still a wonderfully cohesive design, styling wise, as a whole.
Ok, I hate the rear diffuser but aside from that...
Just this evening a Carbon Grey GTD passed me by then parked up. I see so many mk7’s around they’re almost invisible to me now but on this occasion it struck me what a good looking car the mk7 is compared to its contemporaries. A more simple design that’s actually a bit prettier than the 7.5 (the latter looking meaner and sportier in GTI/D trim) yet still looks modern and sharp.
The mk7 and 7.5 still holds up remarkably well after 8 or so years.
So, I too almost said goodbye to VW... almost.
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Great post ! Stay with us. We need your wisdom ... if only for wheel fitment !! :whistle:
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Skip this if you’re easily bored......So, I too almost said goodbye to VW... almost.
Thanks for the interesting and informative read. This forum really needs a "like" button.
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I can say from personal experience that those S3 super sport seats may look good but they’re not supportive at all. You’ll be sliding around and being thrown out of them like playing Buckaroo before you know it. :laugh:
Great post as usual on your ‘World Tour’ on hot hatches! It’s a shame you’re thinking of binning the TCR. Never driven one myself and probably never will now but I always rue the fact that I never got one after a long long wait.
Hope that back improves!
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Get your back sorted Exonian, I know how bad back pain is but once sorted you'll have the joy of driving the TCR again.
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Get your back sorted Exonian, I know how bad back pain is but once sorted you'll have the joy of driving the TCR again.
A good physio is a lot cheaper than buying a new car too!
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Get your back sorted Exonian, I know how bad back pain is but once sorted you'll have the joy of driving the TCR again.
A good physio is a lot cheaper than buying a new car too!
A bell on the xat's collar is even cheaper and might save a few spuggies too.
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Get your back sorted Exonian, I know how bad back pain is but once sorted you'll have the joy of driving the TCR again.
A good physio is a lot cheaper than buying a new car too!
Very true. I’ve suffered off and on with back issues for nearly 40 years. I visit my chiropractor regularly (currently every two weeks) and it works for me.
Supportive and comfortable car seats and finding a good driving position are really important to me, and I’ve found the most supportive / comfortable seats are usually in performance oriented cars. The downside for some people with back issues is that the firmer suspension set up of warm / hot hatches can aggravate back issues - fortunately, not for me. I have decided my next car will be DSG though, so less leg work when driving - especially in built up areas where frequent clutch work and gear changing in a manual can be uncomfortable.
Great post as always @Exonian - I never get bored of reading your posts so didn’t skip any of it. I had to smile to myself when you described getting in and out of your car like a 90 year old - not smiling at your expense, but it’s how I must look to others sometimes when I get in and out of my car :grin:. Hope you get your back issues sorted out soon so you can again drive your TCR without discomfort and enjoy it :smiley:.
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Back problems are a very real thing for me too - not because of anything in particular but just that I know the wrong car/seat can and does cause me pain due to the amount of time I spend driving.
I've always wondered just how OEM's don't see this.
My Mk7 and 7.5 have been fantastic in that respect and it was one of the things that drew me to it as a choice before.
The M135i is also very good, possibly even better.
I too am after an automatic though next time for the same reasons as stated above.
At the moment my biggest back problem though is not caused by the car, its caused by working from home in an unsuitable workspace. The occasional trips in the Golf is actually a blessed relief.
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^ All those workspace (DSE) assessments at work and you can sit on any old sh!te at home and retain a poor posture for 8 hours a day. Doing that myself, working from home.
I'm sure that's the cause of a buggered right knee I'm just getting over.
Christ I feel old reading this thread! :grin:
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There’s something in the settings of the TCR’s DCC that means I really struggle to drive it now. When the car hits a sudden change of surface there’s a kind of shockwave that hits me right in the lower spine and sends intense pain up my back and down my legs. Comfort, Normal, Sport, it happens in all settings.
Before buying mine I test drove a DCC and non DCC equipped cars, but after 15-20 mins both cars left me with pain my middle/lower back. The latter non DCC car left me REALLY uncomfortable and in quite a bit of pain.
I couldn't work out why, then I played around with the manual ratchet lumbar and it became evident that due to my height/frame it was that which was pushing/digging into my back, and no matter what position I had it in it would hurt over time through the bumps/lump vibrations from the road. I specced the electric seat which gives electric adjustable lumbar support (a totally different system and feeling) and with 13k miles under my belt I've never once felt that pain.
So yes, DCC helps soften the pain, but for me (and this may be the case for you) the manual ratchet lumbar was the issue.
:)
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Anyway (he says trying desperately to lighten the mood) the one thing this exercise has shown me is how good the MK 7.5 Golfs still are compared to much more modern competition. Yes the newer cars have more of the latest tech (which I'm sure the MK8 Golf will get too), and maybe better use of space etc., but for looks, ride quality and general smiles per mile, they still take a lot of beating - not bad for a car that has it's roots back in 2012 :D
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Oh I agree. The surprise when you look at other newer cars isn't that something newer is better, it's just how little anything improves vs the mk7.
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Oh I agree. The surprise when you look at other newer cars isn't that something newer is better, it's just how little anything improves vs the mk7.
This for me is key. A while back I questioned what the MK8 actually gives over a 7.5, given it's supposed to be a "Digitally remastered". The bottom line is, it doesn't. Functionally (not aesthetics), it's 99.9% the same as a 7.5 bar a few small things like smart key and wireless CarPlay (something you can do in a 7.5 with an adaptor). the rest is just the removal of physical buttons.
Throw this against the competition, and again, there's very little difference in functions/features, apart from the same package wrapped up in a newer wrapper.
The 7.5 at run-out was so well equipped and ahead of it's game, its the reason why it's such a strong contender now and why 7.5 owners are struggling to see a difference with other vastly newer models.
How many other cars that have underpinnings & functionality from 7 years ago, can sit beside cars that have been out for a handful of months.
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And then chuck the Mk8 into that mix.... it should have come out punching, it should have had tech that put it 7 years ahead of the new BMW 1 series.... but it didn't.
Its entire push was for a physical buttonless dash. That's it.
I guess we never should have expected anything less, this is the Mk6 to the Mk5, is a half version upgrade - the fugly inbred cousin, not something with its own DNA.
The magic would have been in the Mk9, but that will never come because of EV.
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Great write up as usual Andy.
Not like you wanting to change cars in rhythm with the 4 seasons :laugh:
Certainly when I was about to change my car from the Mk 7 GTD nearly 4 years ago, I had a good look around and nothing on the market could come anywhere near to the options as standard on the performance Golf.
I'd not just be moving away from the iconic brand but to something else that didn't give me anywhere near standard kit. So I stayed with the Golf and bought the R.
I've effectively had 8 years looking at the same dash which in car terms is a long time.
So once again I'm at that crossroads of what do I do. I had hoped the Mk8 R would at least be unveiled but we don't even know what kit the Mk8 GTI will have never mind see the R. There still are a few unregistered Mk7.5 R's in the VW system that I did think about but that would have me in the same Golf more or less for 12 years!! And while I agree with everyone on here that it is a great car but there comes a time to change. Ive also got this sneaky feeling the new MK8 GTI / R won't come with the same level of kit as previously.
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Great write up as usual Andy.
Not like you wanting to change cars in rhythm with the 4 seasons :laugh:
Certainly when I was about to change my car from the Mk 7 GTD nearly 4 years ago, I had a good look around and nothing on the market could come anywhere near to the options as standard on the performance Golf.
I'd not just be moving away from the iconic brand but to something else that didn't give me anywhere near standard kit. So I stayed with the Golf and bought the R.
I've effectively had 8 years looking at the same dash which in car terms is a long time.
So once again I'm at that crossroads of what do I do. I had hoped the Mk8 R would at least be unveiled but we don't even know what kit the Mk8 GTI will have never mind see the R. There still are a few unregistered Mk7.5 R's in the VW system that I did think about but that would have me in the same Golf more or less for 12 years!! And while I agree with everyone on here that it is a great car but there comes a time to change. Ive also got this sneaky feeling the new MK8 GTI / R won't come with the same level of kit as previously.
As long as you can get some discount, add that to the 0% finance (if you PCP anyway) and you're looking at a big discount. That 0% finance alone is worth £4k vs standard PCP terms.
As Fred has said, MK8 seems to have no upsides - ugly, with further cost cutting and seemingly no better technologically.(button losses a total PITA).
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Great write up as usual Andy.
Not like you wanting to change cars in rhythm with the 4 seasons :laugh:
Certainly when I was about to change my car from the Mk 7 GTD nearly 4 years ago, I had a good look around and nothing on the market could come anywhere near to the options as standard on the performance Golf.
I'd not just be moving away from the iconic brand but to something else that didn't give me anywhere near standard kit. So I stayed with the Golf and bought the R.
I've effectively had 8 years looking at the same dash which in car terms is a long time.
So once again I'm at that crossroads of what do I do. I had hoped the Mk8 R would at least be unveiled but we don't even know what kit the Mk8 GTI will have never mind see the R. There still are a few unregistered Mk7.5 R's in the VW system that I did think about but that would have me in the same Golf more or less for 12 years!! And while I agree with everyone on here that it is a great car but there comes a time to change. Ive also got this sneaky feeling the new MK8 GTI / R won't come with the same level of kit as previously.
The four seasons Stevie? You know me, I’d swap cars after breakfast, elevenses, Lunch, afternoon tea, evening meal and supper every day!! Variety is the spice of life :grin:
Seriously though, I’d hoped to get 18 months or so out of the TCR before getting something to replace both my existing cars and just running one.
The M135i strikes me as the best option as it’s the most Golf like car that actually feels better than a Golf I’ve ever experienced.
The engine has R power but GTI style torque delivery (read incredibly flexible), the car has loads of neat details which you can only appreciate up close making the Golf seem a bit utilitarian.
The seats are fab, I love the blue detailing on them, I love the seatbelt M Sport trim (which UK buyers actually get unlike the red seatbelt trims specced on overseas Ed40’s and TCR’s), the damped Pedalbox cubby by the drivers knee (completely missing on the mk8), the fact it has trims to hide the paintwork on the door window frames in the front (missing from even the new A3 I saw and the A Class), the frameless quarter window at the back, the subs under the front seats...
Oh, and the 135i is cheaper to insure than a TCR or R too!
So the 135i is quite a future proof purchase in some ways and it doesn’t hurt my back!
Resale values are phenomenal on A35’s right now though so as an investment I’d say they were the best place to put money for that class of car in the shorter term, as an incidental aside.
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Thanks for the comments about my decrepit back everyone!
It’s not so bad that I need some ham fisted physio making my eyes water.
It’s the spring rates on the TCR that seem to upset it most. Comfy as hell for ages and then a ridge, an expansion joint or worst of all a rubber speed hump and bang! Agony.
Michele, maybe we should swap cars for a while :laugh:
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Swap cars? What a super idea. I’ll drop the R off in the morning. :laugh:
I’d still love a TCR. One day...
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Old thread but I thought I'd just tie it off. Having PM'd Stevie (p3asa) a few times, I knew he was looking at an M135i as well, and am more than a little jealous that he's ordered his.
As you all know, (rightly or wrongly), I'm a sucker for options, so had specc'd the M135i almost identically to Stevie's (co-incidence I assure you), but with the additional £1000 driver assistance package (so ACC, Side assist, Lane assist etc. - basically what I have on the GTI). The list price came out just short of £44k (I always new even with a minimal spec I'd be well into the £40k luxury car tax bracket so thought what the hell).
Negotiated a price with a dealer including a Part-Ex on the GTI which gave me £2.5k collateral in the car and a 14% discount on the new BMW which i thought was OK. Then after chatting it over with the wife (a real life bank manager) she had very reluctantly left it up to me if I wanted to go ahead. When (about a week or so later) I recontacted the dealer, he reduced his part-exchange down by £500. long and short of it is that pi55ed me right off. When I told him to forget it, he countered with an extra £250 discount, but it was the principle of the thing.
When I sat down again with the wife (who is my sounding board), we tried to work out why I was so wanting to get the car. Afterall, it's a £44k car, with £465 per year road tax, higher insurance and much worse fuel economy. I think in an hour's conversation with her, we discovered a couple of things. Firstly, I wasn't actually unhappy with the GTI (far from it in fact), and it's certainly quick enough, can easily return 45+mpg in the right conditions and is cheap as chips to insure. We think it was because I've had nothing but VW's since 2004 (16 years) and 3 MK7 Golf's in a row, and I was getting "bored".
She (probably quite rightly) said that it was most likely the tech and additional toys (HUD, Electric seats, electric tailgate) that was pulling me towards the car and not that it had 300bhp and was 4wd (as to be honest I don't often even use the power the GTI has in my commute to and from work), and certainly not because I thought the Golf was a piece of crap in comparison. She also (again probably quite rightly) said that after 6 months of playing with the new "toys", the novelty would wear off but I'd still be left with paying for a £40k+ car after already forking out a whopping £10k cash deposit on the M135i to keep the monthlies where I wanted them over 3 years. Then I re-read the quote fully and discovered that despite a 14% discount, £10k down and £350 pm, the GMFV in 3 years time wasn't far off £20k !
She still said it was my call, but when I re-looked at the numbers and then looked out of the window at my GTI at 2¾ years old with only 14,500 miles on it, and already very highly specc'ed, it quickly became clear that the numbers just didn't add up. I'm sure I would have absolutely loved the M135i, and in a lot of areas it is much better than the MK7 Golf (then it should be as a brand new platform), but it isn't cheap and is it worth over double that of the GTI ? The settlement figure on the GTI is currently only just over £14k (so only £4k more than the deposit on the M135i), so we have just decided to pay off the GTI and stop looking over our shoulder at what else is out there (famous last words).
The day will come when the GTI needs to be replaced maybe in 2 or 3 years, but until then, I'll continue to enjoy relatively cheap motoring in arguably the prettiness incarnation of the Golf - the MK7.5 and save the rest of the money for other things that are more important. Don't get me wrong, that green beast called jealously hasn't left me, and I'm sure when for instance Stevie get's his car and posts the pictures of it, it will rear it's head again, but I think I'm learning to control it.
Sorry for such a rambling post, but I thought it was good (at least for me), to put this to bed once and for all. Maybe weirdly the dealer pi55ing me around, actually did me a favour ?
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^ just to further galvanise your decision not to change, luxury VED is £475pa, not £465 - I'm sure that would've pushed you over the edge if the salesperson messing around hadn't. :grin:
If you want a GTI/R calibre car in the future, I think getting hit for that enhanced VED is inevitable. The threshold isn't going up with car prices, so more cars will be sucked into that VED bracket every year.
The only way out of this for the the car manufacturers that I can see is cutting back on the standard spec, but those specs you'd really want being engineered in such a way as to make it a complete doddle for the dealership to retrofit and pay for separately to the car, or have the hardware in place already and gave retrospective activation at a separate cost.
Or they could reduce the prices to what people really pay and forget all this "deposit contribution" bollocks.
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I think you have a point about the retrofit options but it's a UK only problem AFAIK and where the option thing requires swapping something, it's expensive plus dealership labour rates vs factory ones, it's going to be very expensive.. More expensive than just paying the ransom demand from the government.
I think unless it's OTA software enabling (which vw have done on the mk8) then there won't be a solution.
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I know that BMW are starting to add options in an OTA paid upgrade (such as Automatic High Beam etc.), but others like sunroofs, electric seats, HUD's, adaptive cruise control etc. obviously all need the hardware in the car and despite their best efforts (and I'd love to be proved wrong), I don't think manufacturers will install a sunroof via a software upgrade :D
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There's a lot of good stuff in this thread and I just scanned through much of it again...
The M135i is great car in many ways but, like many in this thread, you do come to realise that it is a pretty expensive one compared the the Mk7 and 7.5 GTI's that we all seem to have presently... You can get similar monthlies, for instance, but if you look to buy at the end of your PCP, then the GFV is steep... because that's what they need to do to get similar monthlies... run a spreadsheet of whole life costs and the Golf still looks pretty good...
However, it's probably fair to say that the GTI is not a direct competitor, and that R is probably a more direct competitor... and I suspect similar costs...
I was impressed with the performance in the BMW, but not so much so that it is light years away from the GTI and I would not swap just on more performance (I was not tempted, for instance, to look at Golf R when I bought the GTI)... The GTI is plenty enough for me... I would not take it to a drag race, but along the tight and twisty roads we have here on the Moors, it's far more in its element...
To be honest, right now, I don't think I'd even be looking at the BMW if I did not have the other problems I have discussed in the other thread... and it is in those respects that the BMW looks attractive to me at the moment...
I mean, 15 months and 8900 miles into a big spec GTI, I shouldn't need to be looking, right...
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Much like me Dave. I don't need the extra performance that an M135i gives (although I have to say in the wet AWD would be useful), and for me an M135 lite with around 240-260ps and FWD would probably been more what I would have been after (I don't think that engines coming for a while).
I don't seems to have the problems that you have with the noise in the GTI. Either I'm going deaf (at 57) or it just doesn't bother me or my car is genuinely quieter than some ? I remember when I specc'd the GTI I baulked at the neat £33k list price, and it was only after some substantial discount bringing it down to the £27.5k mark that I started to feel better about it.
I've driven the M135i and it's a glorious hot hatch, brilliant equipment as standard and as options, fast, quiet and civilised with great (at least it appears so) build quality. But as good as it is, is it worth £44k or £38k after discount - I just don't know. I mean i'm at a time in my life where I can afford it, and TBH, with what's been happening in the world this year with COVID-19, part of me still thinks to hell with it, just get it, I could be dead this time next year (not wishing to be morbid) so enjoy life whilst you can, but that nagging part of me keeps comparing the costs against the current GTI and somethings just stopping me.
Sure the M135i (and BMW in general) might be the next level in quality over VW, but you do have to pay heavily for that privilege. As you said Dave, if I was coming from an R, maybe the difference wouldn't be so much and I would have already signed by now, but I'm not in an R, I'm in a GTI, and that's a whole rung down cost wise from an AWD BMW.
Knowing how much I change my mind, don't be surprised if in the next few days I announce that I've just ordered one. I really am that fickle (no kids, don't smoke, don't drink mortgage paid off year ago, so cars are my only vice) >:D >:D
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I would not take it to a drag race, but along the tight and twisty roads we have here on the Moors, it's far more in its element...
I don't know the area that well but I was in Staithes earlier this year and the A169 between Whitby and Pickering was a great drive! It's such a shame that you are having the problems you report, I'm on my second and they've both been great.
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I would not take it to a drag race, but along the tight and twisty roads we have here on the Moors, it's far more in its element...
I don't know the area that well but I was in Staithes earlier this year and the A169 between Whitby and Pickering was a great drive! It's such a shame that you are having the problems you report, I'm on my second and they've both been great.
Well, if you think that's good, you most certainly need to get off the main a roads up here and get onto the minor ones.... You know, I could tell you... but... :grin: :grin: :grin:
Watch it, though, NYCC tend to have the speed van lurking around (the last time I saw it was on the 169, coincidentally)... Adaptive cruise control is your very best friend up here...
... and that's the beauty of the less well traveled routes up here... You can have a hoot of a time without being illegal... Just watch out for sheep...
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Old thread but I thought I'd just tie it off.....
What a great post. Your wife sounds like a ripper!
Something I heard the other day - the secret to happiness is to appreciate what you have. Daily. Sounds simplistic and trite, but I reckon there's something in that. Especially with cars.
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Well just when I thought this was put to bed, I was contacted yesterday by a guy called Tony Lewis from Berry BMW in London. I'd contacted him a week or so ago to get a price, but hadn't heard from him (he was off on holiday apparently). The guys over on the BMW forum put me in contact with him and and said no one else could live with their prices.
Well, he sent me a quote, and much to my amazement, for the same spec, monthlies etc. his quote was nearly £800 cheaper than the best I've had, and that £10,000 deposit had somehow shrunk to just under £8k (I could and would have paid the £10k but £8k sounds much nicer). TBH, I don't know how he's done it as the GMFV's and monthlies etc. are within a few quid of the best of the other quotes. So not sure how he can knock £2k off the deposit ?
Decisions decisions :D :D
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Decisions decisions :D :D
IMO - you're letting the "DFS pricing" nag away at you you. Your posts/reasons have rationally questioned the deal several times over, but there's one point you keep referring back to which I think is key in this. You've said a few times "it's a £44k car", but truth be told, it's not. It's a list price used to lure people into thinking they are getting a discount. Try going into a BMW dealership and buying at full RRP without being offered any discount... unlike other brands, you can't.
Tony Lewis (TRL) works on volume, by stripping out all the margin available to him (and other dealers). But don't fall for his matey matey persona, he's not doing anything special, he's a salesman and should be treated as one, he's simply trading on volume. I caught him out once on a social media post of his when he was claiming he sold a car for a certain amount etc, but I knew the reality because it was me who bough the car(!). He's a South London car dealer, nice guy, but can be slippery.
:)
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Decisions decisions :D :D
I think the decision is already made deep down. :wink:
TRL can juggle the figures around how much p/x allowance he can achieve and how much “dealer contribution” he has available to the spec etc.
He quoted me £5470 dealer and £1500 BMW contribution if taking a PCP.
On top of that it’s adjusting the deposit and monthlies around to suit.
I would imagine all profit has been stripped from the cars and he’s running off BMW bonuses for volume shifted and finance company commission.
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How do you think any of those "brokers" work????
Nothing different between the VW DTD broker and that...
Absolutely slim margins, make it up by easy volume sales walking up to your front door.
Suspect the real meat on the bone is that by getting high volumes through the door their discounts from the manufacturer are maxxed out meaning that any normal retail sales are very nice earners indeed. Possibly those volume discounts are available across the group...
Leading to: https://www.berrychiswickbmw.co.uk/news/2019/corporate/
Basically just like everyone on here says use our DTD friends, everyone in the BMW world says "talk to Tony".
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TBH, my local dealer not only managed to match Tony's deal but also beat it (on the part exchange price). In the end though, it's an awful lot of money, and with the uncertainly surrounding Covid-19 and the world, I just felt despite the cracking deal (16.1% off list), now wasn't the time to be signing up for a new £40k car. Obviously other peoples priorities and outlooks are different to mine and that's fine.
I'll have to "slum" it for another year in the this poorly made piece of crap that is the GTI :D :D
Sorry guys, you ain't getting rid of me just yet, I'm here to bug you for a while longer.
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Glad to see you staying on board Sootchucker!
I’m not sure the comparison of VW with BMW and MB performance hatches is entirely fair. Certainly price-wise it doesn’t stand up on a cash basis.... maybe on finance it looks better but surely the two other makes are a segment up in the quality stakes?
Likewise, looking “down” from VW I have seen very little discussion on the Focus ST despite this Ford having a mighty impressive spec and a pretty smart appearance in the right colour. I think this is because most VW owners would consider VW to be a “better” make than Ford.
The exception to this is the i30N for some reason.
What am I saying? In defence of my beloved VW, it’s not fair to compare with a BMW on build quality.
Go on, disagree with me somebody.
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Wouldn't the ST and i30N be considered a bit hard core compared with a GTI? And as such appeal to a slightly younger buyer.
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Is it just me or don't Ford UK actually have the 280bhp ST available yet?
TBH though a 2.3l engine sounds very thirsty anyway.
I don't care much for Ford interiors and tech either - it just seems totally meh to me.
Bitten too many times by their stuff over the years.
The I30n, you know its cheap, you know its nasty, you know what you are buying tbh.
On my man-maths spreadsheet, the BMW worked out the cheapest to own for 3 years on PCP, the I30N was only slightly more.
My issue is that the I30n isn't DSG/auto and doesn't have ACC. Both of which I want for my next car...
And so.... I am still in my Mk7.5 GTD.... which tbh isn't a terrible place even going into 2021.
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PS also.... Megane RS.... no longer made - I've just discovered.
Type-R gone very soon in Honda's all electric/hybrid 2022 lineup.
Increasingly this market sector (Golf GTI equivalents) is narrowing down...
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280hp petrol Focus ST and 190 diesel ST have been out for months. I see a metallic dark grey one most days and always think it looks good...very “stealth”.
I think comments prove my point..... if you sit Hyundai and Ford “under” VW as a brand, then do BMW and MB not sit “above” VW in general terms?
Just accepting this premise for a brief moment, what other make is equal to the VW brand in the world’s car hierarchy?
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Still can't seem to find a ST 280 on Ford's configuator... and they don't make an auto box either...
I think comments prove my point..... if you sit Hyundai and Ford “under” VW as a brand, then do BMW and MB not sit “above” VW in general terms?
Just accepting this premise for a brief moment, what other make is equal to the VW brand in the world’s car hierarchy?
Interesting question.... easier to answer I think for SEAT/Skoda and Audi but VW itself.... not sure there is an equivalent... perhaps Honda might be the only one I can think of.... more than "cheap" but not true premium.
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VW needs to be careful that lowering interior quality (eg T-Roc, Mk8 Golf possibly) doesn't move it closer to the run-of-the-mill brands.
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Fred, that ST mystery is bizarre. You are, as usual, correct.
And yet there are new ones being offered on Autotrader right now.
When they were launched in early 2020 I sat in one at the local Ford dealer and they had 3 more in stock.
I look at one in the flesh every few days.
And before engine says ST Line.....no, these are the genuine full fat article.
The Ford dealer even admired my lovely GTI and wondered if I would like to swop.
I declined.
But I still like the look of the Focus and the dynamics are I believe brilliant.
Maybe no thirstier than an R??
Not sure I would risk the depreciation an ST though but it’s a worthy alternative.
Has anyone on here tried one out?
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I did find it in the end - Ford's configurator is just plain confusing.
I could select 280ps and auto - the auto box is brand new, like this month brand new.
I've got some carwow requests out for it, but at the moment the discounts are pretty meagre IMHO - £35k spec coming down by 2k... (i just edited these figures after checking it again - worse than it was previously!)
At least its not north of 40k though!
I've no idea how one of these will drive though - Car Magazine wrote that the automatic version was going to be slower 0-60 than the manual, which if true is a very curious state of affairs in 2020.
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With the new ST what’s happened to Ford’s affordable performance tag? £34k. Wow.
I had finance figures on the previous ST before I ended up with the S3 and I was amazed how much it was. Think the Audi worked on cheaper per month.
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I think the days of affordable German brands on cheap PCP deals are long gone.
Which is what we've been saying a lot on here lately.
I've not seen a PCP figure on a Focus yet and its hard to say just how it will look yet - its all about Input price minus GFV.
German cars with heavy discounts and good residuals were the sweet spot, but I think those are gone - as seen with the TCR (or the BMW)... ~35k with a 16k residual means paying 19 grand plus interest. As opposed to 28k with a 14k residual on the Mk7 GTI. Thats 5k plus interest difference - 136-150 quid a month extra for 36 months. It soon adds up.
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Car Magazine wrote that the automatic version was going to be slower 0-60 than the manual, which if true is a very curious state of affairs in 2020.
Maybe they're going s bit more realistic for normal use?
The way DSG routinely feathers in the gears really isn't that quick, it's disappointing. Outside of using launch control whereby feathering-in is minimised, i'd say it's no faster than a manual box, and may be a smidge slower.
The DSG isn't quick in changing gears, it is quick in changing clutches on gears already set up.
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Most 0-60 stated figures are faster for the auto variant vs the manual though.
Also these days the auto is more fuel effecient.
No surprise that Ford can't get this right though.
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Going back to an alternative to the Golf I must admit after some thought that it would be an Octavia vRS or a Leon Cupra. I’m not really drawn to Audi, BMW or MB.
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Most 0-60 stated figures are faster for the auto variant vs the manual though.
Also these days the auto is more fuel effecient.
No surprise that Ford can't get this right though.
Ford have always been pro manual though (I wish VAG were), it's the one thing they've been historically good at - slick shifting manual boxes, and like I said, aside from a 0-62 sprint in launch control (I bet you'd be at least 0.5s slower without launch control), DSG really isn't quicker than manual, and certainly not when it needs to drop a few cogs on the move e.g.6>3, 7>4, I.e. Real life driving, not traffic light Grand Prix
I always found my manuals 10% more economical than my Dad's DSG with the GTD and got way better mpg with my R than most were reporting with their DSGs. Add in the 7th cog with the switch from the DQ250 box probably made them just about even, despite what the official figures would have you believe.
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I’m a dinosaur but here goes.....
The opportunity to do the sums based on buying a car for cash (or via an old fashioned bank car loan)
and what it might be worth “second hand” disappeared some time before I entered the world of modern car ownership ....... having spent most of my working life with the good old fashioned company fleet car.
Now, with heavily discounted new cars, promotions, PCP, contract hire and the world of GFVs we seem to be
in an environment where value comparisons are extremely difficult to make.
Also, what on earth was VW doing in the early days of the Mk7 R in selling the brand so short with ridiculous deals? Idiots!
When the Mk7 GTI was introduced I presented myself at Cameron’s of Perth eager to buy a new Mk7 to replace my Mk6 only to be told by a smug Sales Manager that any orders would be placed at full list price only, discounts being out of the question. This is my 5th consecutive Golf and I have not bought any from my local dealer.
My point? There is none really other than I’m feeling grumpy tonight and felt like a rant about the motor trade.
As we've seen recently, with ridiculous RRPs, GFV makes or breaks a deal as much as a decent discount, and VWs are dropping.
Strong GFVs and affordable depreciation were the reasons I've bought so many from new.
If they start to depreciate like Fords, I'll do what I would if I were buying a Ford...buy it 18 months old for half RRP.
The R had a great GFV initially, and it seemed to be worthy of it - I got rid of my 46 month old R for £17300, the initial GFVs were around £18500 at 36 months. If VW wanted to stop those dirt cheap deals, they could've choked supply to fleet channels and made them go through retail with no meaningful volume discounts - VW decided it was fine with piking them high and selling them cheap as BMW has done for the last 10 years.
It did irk me that I had an 8.5 month wait for mine and people were getting red and white cars with Cadiz wheels lease cars on a 3 month lead time - VW clearly don't give a sh!te about retail customers.
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Sootchucker, there are a raft of ex-BMW fleet and demo 135i’s sat on dealer forecourts for circa £31k with most of the spec you want as I’m sure you’re very aware. Many of them £40k give or take list price originally and between 6 and 10 months old.
25% lost in that short time at retail so nearly 30% at trade price should anyone want to part exchange a similar car for something different.
At the stupidly high APR % I’d never recommend buying a used one on a PCP but as a cash purchase they look really good value against poverty spec 19 plate S3’s advertised at Audi dealers or ex-lease A35’s in Merc dealers.
25% in less than 12 months is either shocking depreciation or merely reflective of the market for nearly new cars.
Having run a few trade price quotes I can safely say it’s the latter with the proviso that Mercedes and Audi seem to hold their value better by a small margin.
The relevance in this is that unless you plan on keeping the car 4 years where depreciation will have levelled out somewhat these cars lose a LOT of real money in years 1 and 2 compared to buying say a Golf R a few years ago when the VW had the monopoly on that segment of the market (yeah, you could buy an S3 back then but hardly anyone did).
My point here, aside from stating the obvious, is you would need to be very sure you were buying a car you actually liked quite a lot as it’ll cost a hell of a lot of money to bin it off if you were to suddenly decide a mk8 Golf wasn’t so bad after all in a year’s time.
You need to be not just buying it for the fripperies of gadgets which you’ll hardly use (aside from HUD which can be real world useful) but instead buying it because it’s your sort of car to drive and own.
It’s quite an ugly car to most people but they seem popular with ex-Golf owners it seems. It’s quite a masculine design I think and there’s something about them that appeals to VW owners unlike the A35 quite so much.
The A35 is a well proportioned blob with a designer badge on its nose and seems to appeal to women going by the amount I’ve seen.
I think the designer handbag look of the A/S3 will also be a huge hit with female buyers as it’s quite elegant and the badge is a fashionable one.
Golfs seem to be more gender neutral so maybe the laddish looks of the 135 appeal to Golf owning blokes who feel massively disillusioned with the mk8?
The strengths of the 135 are its power delivery for day fo day use (unless you’re a ring road test pilot who likes to wind the revs right to the max) with lots of low end grunt, its refinement (going from the limited drive I had in one last year) and the fact it has an LSD as well as 4wd.
In short it’s a bit like a 4wd GTI with a nice dashboard and seats.
Is it a keeper though?
Once in a while one needs to remove the blasé familiarity with the mk7 Golf and actually walk around it, stand and admire its lines and build quality, then poke around it like you would if you’d never owned one before.
It’s still a staggeringly good package compared to much newer designs including VW’s in house effort which I’m sure is designed to push us into early adoption of ID models as soon as possible. I think it’ll initially backfire for a decent number of potential repeat buyers who will eventually drift back once the electric vehicles become more appealing to non middle class liberals with a healthy company car allowance.
I still think a late model 7.5 Golf is the best package out there for a blend of talents, style and equipment.
If any car should be a keeper it ought to be a mk7(.5) Golf.
As for me, with a massively heavy heart as I’m hugely fond of the vehicle and have personal incredibly sentimental memories that are directly as a result of my mk7 ownership, it looks like my time is about to draw to a close.
“It is with a heavy heart that I must write and tell you... “ as a historic character might scribe with his/her quill.
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I don't think the price of the mk8 is going to please many. On top of any other things, i think the numbers are going to be not attractive to those used to the exceptional value we've seen with the 7..
We'll see, but everything remotely similar new is shaping up pretty steep.
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As for me, with a massively heavy heart as I’m hugely fond of the vehicle and have personal incredibly sentimental memories that are directly as a result of my mk7 ownership, it looks like my time is about to draw to a close.
“It is with a heavy heart that I must write and tell you... “ as a historic character might scribe with his/her quill.
Moving on? What to?
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Old thread but I thought I'd just tie it off. Having PM'd Stevie (p3asa) a few times, I knew he was looking at an M135i as well, and am more than a little jealous that he's ordered his.....
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Mk7(.5) Its a great car that for me does everything.
The R is probably the longest I've owned a car and not had my head turned by other models, which for me says a lot.
It does everything I need it to do and more and if the Mk8 R had been announced / released I would happily have moved to that.
I don't actually have an itch to try something else which is probably quite blinkered of me but also speaks volumes for how I feel the R is just perfect but it is only 4 months off of 4 years old and it makes financial sense
I did get quotes for a new 7.5 R that are still in the VW system but the prices I felt were quite high especially given that would take me up to 12 years virtually in the same car!
2litre, 4wd, 300bhp, auto, hatch, something that could easily take the elderly relatives out on a drive without scaring them, something that would be fun round the twisties, something that wouldn't leave you embarrassed when on your own and the pimped up Corsa comes sneaking up the inside lane to the red lights knowing fine well the lane opposite has a parked car.
The Golf ticks all those boxes and more but on paper so does the m135i with a more modern cabin and better tech for more or less the same financial outlay as the R.
As for the £40k ved, its not something I'm happy about but its something I think will be coming all our way soon enough as cars are going up and up in price. I'm actually more concerned about buying new come Brexit.
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Moving on? What to?
No prizes if you guessed a 135.
After weeks and weeks of soul searching, looking at alternatives, negotiating, getting cold feet and so on I finally agreed a deal on a 135 early in the month but kept holding back.
Still in many minds about it, after 34 years at the helm of a VW or SEAT, aside from a couple very brief spells, I’m fairly certain being away from the VW Mothership my circuits will go a bit haywire very quickly so anything could happen in the near to medium future. My sons have both given me mere weeks before the BMW pod gets jettisoned.
After having a serious shortlist of cars that involved solely Golfs since the Mk5 days (yep, I was fully aware of everything else on the market and some models provided great attraction in certain areas but there was only ever going to be a Golf on my drive realistically as they’re etched through me like a stick of rock) and a string of Golfs going back before then (interspersed with a few hotter SEATs) I took the highly unusual step of taking a test drive in something else last year.
I’ve never test driven a car prior to that if I didn’t intend on buying one. There was just something about the M135i so I went to check it out, sometimes you just can’t explain these things.
I was quite prepared to wait a couple more years to see the 8R and S3 to reassess which one would follow the TCR if they proved a bigger draw than the BMW. Staying with a VW group car is my comfort zone.
With the spec it has my TCR offers everything on paper: rare but recognisable, unusually for me it’s full of options, I love the look of it (rear diffuser aside) I love how it drives, I love the interior, I love Dynaudio and CarPlay which are both things I’d never been bothered about before.
It’s no massive coincidence I’ve had five white Mk7’s on the trot, it feels like it’s been pretty much one car but different permutations just like an enthusiast buying one car and modifying it different ways over a period of time.
After seven years I’m far from bored of mk7’s, so much so that I recently considered a 20 plate R to replace the TCR, but at the end of the day there was no way I could justify spending another five or six grand for a one year newer car that felt retrograde in many areas (zero options and comparatively dowdy interior).
I want a car that doesn’t hurt my back to drive and I’d still like it to be fun to own.
I can’t just park the TCR up indefinitely until my back is better which it almost is but flares up when the TCR hits certain types of potholes or expansion joints.
So I’m going to give the 135 a go.
No PCP deals to hold me in, no affinity to BMW whatsoever, no itch to scratch.
Who knows how this’ll go but it’s all an adventure...
EDIT: having just read Stevie’s post above mine after typing it out it’s surprisingly similar in some ways so I have a feeling this might be a recurring theme with Golf mk7 owners to a smaller degree.
Funny old world.
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I still say finding a decent physio would have been cheaper. I've got chronic disc problems in my lower back and I can't say the TCR is worse than any other car I've driven. In fact I think the seats are way more comfortable than my previous mk7 GTi and gtd. Good luck with BMW though 👍👍
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So I’m going to give the 135 a go.
No PCP deals to hold me in, no affinity to BMW whatsoever, no itch to scratch.
Who knows how this’ll go but it’s all an adventure...
Just a thought, but seeing as you don't know how things will go (I guess a few of us are thinking that too), why not tuck the TCR away and get the BMW on a short term lease? Try before yo buy if you like.
Trading in the TCR will realise a loss, trading in a BMW in 6 months time will realise a second loss. However if you've rented the BMW and don't gell with it, you've lost the monthly payments, but still have the TCR, which won't be worth all that much less than it is now.
I'm sure Monkey will be along after putting the numbers into a spreadsheet and tell me that my way cost 2 and 6 a fortnight more, but I'd rather do that than tie my cash into something I might not feel right with.
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Have to say its interesting hearing how many folks when they look to move away are looking at the BMW.
I come the other way (albeit from the previous m135i), and there's a bunch of things I miss from it, but a bunch that I am now enjoying with my TCR. However, I think if I was to change from the TCR it would most likely be to an A35. The only reason I didn't was at the time the numbers were quite different in the TCRs favour.
Just wondering why people are looking more the the BMW, is it the contributions?
*Hope you like the BMW - did you spec adaptive suspension for your back?
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Bmw... Available now. Can test drive. Next generation on from mk7 in nearly every way.
It's also very golf like. Actually really a golf with a BMW badge.
On the flip side, ugly mk8 that has been delayed and delayed. Still no gti demonstrator to drive, still no date, still no price.
Basically anyone considering a change in 2020 couldn't buy a new gti.
Come 2021 will we see the same noises? I'm not sure. I think it will depend largely on the price of the mk8. I've said this for a long time now... A meaningful few grand less would fix the problem for vw but... Not gonna happen I expect.
On the BMW forums there are threads about what you had before and nearly everyone is a former golf owner...
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I still say finding a decent physio would have been cheaper. I've got chronic disc problems in my lower back and I can't say the TCR is worse than any other car I've driven. In fact I think the seats are way more comfortable than my previous mk7 GTi and gtd. Good luck with BMW though 👍👍
Thanks :smiley:
The problem is the suspension settings rather then the seats.
I don’t think a physio would make any difference, it’s a pain that comes on suddenly then goes again but is 95% better now. I managed to move a hefty small tree 60 feet a month or two ago which blistered my hands more then it hurt my back so it’s definitely on the mend!
It’s the way the DCC seems to be smooth, smooth, smooth then a sudden jolt over a sharp ridge that is the trigger. It’s the same walking, absolutely fine for weeks and weeks then a sudden change of direction and “ouch”.
Just a thought, but seeing as you don't know how things will go (I guess a few of us are thinking that too), why not tuck the TCR away and get the BMW on a short term lease? Try before yo buy if you like.
Trading in the TCR will realise a loss, trading in a BMW in 6 months time will realise a second loss. However if you've rented the BMW and don't gell with it, you've lost the monthly payments, but still have the TCR, which won't be worth all that much less than it is now.
I'm sure Monkey will be along after putting the numbers into a spreadsheet and tell me that my way cost 2 and 6 a fortnight more, but I'd rather do that than tie my cash into something I might not feel right with.
I definitely don’t want yet another car on the drive for however many months. I don’t have the time or inclination to clean and maintain that many.
If I could find the right short term lease deals I’d do that all the time and never buy a car aside from keeping a little runabout (which I always have) for the menial jobs.
I always bought cars with cash or bank loans as that gave me the flexibility to modify, but I’ve done the modifying thing to death so just want a standard car that gives me 90% of what I require.
Have to say its interesting hearing how many folks when they look to move away are looking at the BMW.
I come the other way (albeit from the previous m135i), and there's a bunch of things I miss from it, but a bunch that I am now enjoying with my TCR. However, I think if I was to change from the TCR it would most likely be to an A35. The only reason I didn't was at the time the numbers were quite different in the TCRs favour.
Just wondering why people are looking more the the BMW, is it the contributions?
*Hope you like the BMW - did you spec adaptive suspension for your back?
The last thing I wanted in the BMW was adaptive!
I’d say buying new the BMW probably has the most attractive offers but I’ve not really looked into buying a new A35. A colleague at work was looking into one last year so I did a fair bit of research for him but the car didn’t ever really appeal to me for some reason. The dash graphics etc are cool on the Merc.
I think it’s probably because the BMW is the most Golf like in feel (solid), has the best PCP deals (probably) and the extra torque over the VW and Merc makes the engine feel strong in everyday driving which is the biggest draw for me as someone who always remapped a turbo car for better mid range pull.
I expect a hell of a lot of Golf owners nabbed an A35 when their PCP’s and leases were up.
For me, right now it’s possible to get a well loaded 6 month old 135 for sub £30k probably as a direct consequence of the cheap deals to buy new. I’ll take that.
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If you stay with VAG, it's got to be an S3, the new A3 is miles better looking than the Golf 8, don't know yet whether the A3 has been cheapened in any way as I have briefly seen a demo driving out of the local Audi dealership as I was on my way in.
Who mentioned spreadsheets? I do all those sums in my head. Don't know how I ended up in QA rather than an accountant!
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I hope it works out well for your back! I agree with mcmaddy though, a good physio is well worth it. I too notice the odd crash, mostly on ridges, potholes are usually okay. Most of the time it's pretty good though so I'm happy with that.
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I hope it works out well for your back! I agree with mcmaddy though, a good physio is well worth it. I too notice the odd crash, mostly on ridges, potholes are usually okay. Most of the time it's pretty good though so I'm happy with that.
Thanks Watts
I have two small rubber speed humps and a nasty ridge on my journey to and from work. Being as that’s 99% of my driving then it’s not great. The other 1% is the A38 to visit my son and there are a few expansion joints that are agony, worse if the back seats are folded. If you stay with VAG, it's got to be an S3, the new A3 is miles better looking than the Golf 8, don't know yet whether the A3 has been cheapened in any way as I have briefly seen a demo driving out of the local Audi dealership as I was on my way in.
Who mentioned spreadsheets? I do all those sums in my head. Don't know how I ended up in QA rather than an accountant!
Trust me, you’re probably better off in QA.
Both my sons are accountants, one is a mathematician and went by choice, one is useless at maths and wanted to be a graphic designer but needed a job as he decided uni wasn’t his thing so was steered into working with his brother.
They’re both quite highly qualified now and the one who can’t add up is on the same pay scale as the other but is three years younger!
Oh, and the pay ain’t great (understatement).
To be honest MH, I think I’d rather be in a late 7.5 R than either of the newer VW/Audi offerings.
But the S3 is definitely the better looker by far.
Quality wise, having by chance seen a new A3 up close on a dealer forecourt a few weeks ago I’d say interior quality was mk7 Golf standard not previous generation A3. Not much better than an A1 in many areas.
I have a last generation A1 on my drive and that is no better built or furnished than a Polo or Ibiza of similar age.
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^QA pay in Pharma isn't great unless you become a QP - my new firm might pay for the training in the near future as it'll be a lot cheaper overall than paying a contract QP £80 an hour (would love to be on even a third of that!).
Wasn't impressed with the interior of the previous A1 either, bought my wife a new 2015 1.6TDI (115ps) - lots of hard plastics and bugger-all in standard equipment. Thought it was well overpriced for what it was but it was what she wanted. 2 days a week I used to drive it to my work 20 miles away to clear out the DPF - used to thrash it and still end up with 65mpg. £0 road tax vs £475 on my A4!
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Something that hasn't been mentioned yet, is the digital dash from the BMW cars. To my mind it's plain awful and messy. I know that the one in the MK7.5 Golf isn't exactly the last word in state of the art or configureability, but compared to the messy one in the BMW, it's a work of art. If I ever did order an M135i it was deffo have to have the HUD so I didn't have to rely on that so much.
Can't really see what BMW were thinking as so much of the rest of the car is really well thought out and high tech, but the digital dash looks like an afterthought, and isn't even that configurable ?
Probably wouldn't stop me ordering one but like I say, I've have to have the HUD as well.
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Its funny, the Mk7 AID is consider by many to be a bit bland and basic.... on the other hand the BMW one is the opposite.... but actually less functional because of it.
Its going to take a while for all of the OEM's to actually find the sweet spot for this user interface..... I don't have much faith in that happening given that car OEM's really never want to grasp software development in the way computer/phone companies do.
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I tried other makes products while still owning older VW group stuff but i keep coming back to the VW groups brands of products for some reason as much as they have there faults.
I'll probably end up with an RS3 but the current generation not the new no buttons one.
Theres something about a 5 cyl sound. :cool:
That plan would result in an RS3, two GTIs, and a classic mini in the garage. So 3/4 VWgroup stuff :huh: :undecided:
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https://youtu.be/13Bfzo-NheI BMW & RangeRovers :lipsrsealed:
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Well, yesterday I went to a BMW dealership in North Wales to test drive the new BMW M135 X-Drive as well as the X2 M 35i.
Both cars were in BMW Misano Blue and running 19" alloys, and to be honest looked superb - both of them. I test drove the X2 first and as expected it accelerated like a train, and being AWD (like the R), not a hint of wheel spin (was was a 20 plate ex demonstrator). I then jumped into the M135 and to be honest, immediately that suited me better (and the wife liked it better). Performance similar (as you would expect) to the X2. The 1 series was a 69 plate item on their used car slot with no options other than the M135i plus pack it would seem.
Upon concluding both drives we pondered them. I discounted the X2 almost straight away. Firstly the rear visibility was awful with an almost tunnel like rear screen. For a car that lists at over £47k, I was also very disappointed and amazed that for such a relatively large car, it only comes with rear parking sensors - no front and no camera (that's part of a pack). Also I found the steering just too light and not much self centring, and coming out of the Golf with it's 2.5 turns lock to lock, the X2 by contrast was something like 3.5 turns with result in a lot of wheels turning when manoeuvring. Also, again for a car of this price, Electric folding mirrors are an option and not standard ? Also, I don't think I'm really ready for an SUV yet.
The M135 was better as parking sensors front and rear are standard as are folding mirrors and the interior layout suited me better. There's a decent amount of kit as standard but unfortunately no active cruise control, lane assist, rear assist etc, as that is part of a £1000 driver aid pack, otherwise spec seems pretty similar to most performance golfs i.e. 18" alloys, auto lights and wipers folding mirrors, excellent sport seats, heated seat, dual climate control etc.
The problem for me is that I like my toys, and I wouldn't have wanted to give up much that my GTI has, but I quickly found that most of the "individual" items I wanted, are contained in expensive packs and not available individually. For instance if you want just the sound system, then it's part of the M135i plus pack (at £1500) - to be fair does also include 19" alloys and sun protection glass. Another example is that if you want comfort access (keyless), it's in another £1500 Comfort Pack II (combined with electric seats, steering wheel heating, and electric tailgate). Don't get me wrong, as a combined price these packs are probably good value for money if you want / need all the features of the pack (sadly I didn't). I wanted a rear camera (like the GTI) and yes, you've guessed it Tech Pack I at....£1500 ?
So when specifying the car with the options I wanted (most of which were contained in packs), I quickly ended up at over £44k. Despite haggling over the price for a while, I also found the BMW dealer far less ready to give big discounts that I'm used to at VW. The thing however that concerned me, is that on BMW's official used car web site, there are plenty of M135i's some of which are only months old, and being listed at £7-£9K off list, which makes a new one very pricey considering how much they seem to depreciate in just 6 months ? So I've scrapped the idea of a new one, and will perhaps look to find a used one in my colour and spec choice (or as near to it as possible).
I will say though, these are very nicely made cars and ooze quality and certainly makes the interior on the MK7 or 7.5 Golf look lower rent, but to be fair the Golf is an 8 year old design. TBH, can't see how the new MK8 is going to compete with these ? The infotainment system in particular is superb with both I-drive and touchscreen capability and a really nice 10" wide screen. In my opinion however, one area where the MK7.5 beats the M135i is the digital dash. Sure we all moan that the VW unit could have been easily made to do more, but compared to the system in the BMW, which frankly is plain ugly and not at all easy or clear to look at, and much less configurable than those in the Golf's.
Interestingly on the way back, (75 mile trip), the GTI did once again put a smile on my face and was very quiet and civilised and certainly quick enough for most uses, and did make me wonder why I was ever thinking of changing in the 1st place. I think it's a case of "grass is greener" as I've been with VW exclusively now for 15 years, and part of me I think just wanted a change. I'll keep you posted if things change.
The BMW pricing is always a mystery as you seem to always get good deals through brokers, and seen many say they got some great discount at dealers, but on my company lease system they are very pricey with only the car within reach and without many of the desired packs also. In contrast the VW seemingly fly under the radar as 'Golfs' and my TCR was well within my band with no stretch whatsoever.
In terms of packs, then you can see why they do it, its an easier build for them, and they also sell things folk do not want!
At outset of my change looked at the A35 AMG and it was within my band, and if wanted items individually it likely would have remained so, but there was items on the third pack that wanted and the combination of packs obliterated my band completely - likely wanted only 50% of what options would have ended up with.
They might think they selling more, but they also will lose buyers like your good self, so its self defeating also to enforce packs.
If I was buying I would go for a nearly new with all the packs bought by someone else, its a buyers market at the moment given the economy and likely that most folk are going to be just a little bit more careful with expenditure, I would certainly be a little more cautious and not stretching to reach a car where my history has always been to stretch given my love for a decent and enjoyable ride.
Already getting myself set to purchase the TCR outright as not really liking where cars are going, and which would also be a decent saving for me.
Second hand cars might be the norm for me, especially given the really good experience we had with wife's A1 S Line Black Edition, 2 years old, immaculate with stupidly low mileage and main dealer cover for fraction of the book price (we stuck out for a good discount), it was really like picking up a new car. We had that car 2.5 years now. We could have bought it new, nobody would know different, we just did not pay anywhere near new money. Might take some time, you stick to guns on price, mileage and specs without compromise. I was in position to, took 2 months looking, but was worth time.
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The BMW pricing is always a mystery as you seem to always get good deals through brokers, and seen many say they got some great discount at dealers, but on my company lease system they are very pricey with only the car within reach and without many of the desired packs also. In contrast the VW seemingly fly under the radar as 'Golfs' and my TCR was well within my band with no stretch whatsoever.
Company car prices are entirely to do with how the company concerned has its own discounts, preferences and relationships in place.
When I was a company car driver, our lease provider used to have some crazy cheap prices on some marques, but not others.
Equally, same lease provider but for a friend who worked for a different company had a different pattern entirely with other marques being the value point in the range.
There is no obvious reason for it, but it has to be tied to someone setting a preference and predicting volumes or something.
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I tried other makes products while still owning older VW group stuff but i keep coming back to the VW groups brands of products for some reason as much as they have there faults.
I'll probably end up with an RS3 but the current generation not the new no buttons one.
Theres something about a 5 cyl sound. :cool:
That plan would result in an RS3, two GTIs, and a classic mini in the garage. So 3/4 VWgroup stuff :huh: :undecided:
The RS 3 is the only real itch that have aside from a Porsche (too impractical) and like you the older version,
Going to keep my TCR but as stated in another post can see myself going more down the used car route in future and putting money that not spend on new into a maintaining pot and RS3 would be the first car look for.
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The BMW pricing is always a mystery as you seem to always get good deals through brokers, and seen many say they got some great discount at dealers, but on my company lease system they are very pricey with only the car within reach and without many of the desired packs also. In contrast the VW seemingly fly under the radar as 'Golfs' and my TCR was well within my band with no stretch whatsoever.
Company car prices are entirely to do with how the company concerned has its own discounts, preferences and relationships in place.
When I was a company car driver, our lease provider used to have some crazy cheap prices on some marques, but not others.
Equally, same lease provider but for a friend who worked for a different company had a different pattern entirely with other marques being the value point in the range.
There is no obvious reason for it, but it has to be tied to someone setting a preference and predicting volumes or something.
Yep, its likely procurement getting really good deals with some, and not much out of others,
Was chatting to a colleague who had just got himself a Vauxhall Astra GTC and was very pleased with himself at doing so, until explained that he had paid a reasonable amount more than the Golf R I was driving that also had a few options also like the Prets.
The Fords and Vauxhalls even with pretty standard units were a lot more than the Golf R, but most do not know their cars and it passes them by. I actually got money back on my Golf R and now TCR out of my allowance.
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Our prices were available as a spreadsheet and I did a massive calculation to create a "value index" figure for each car then sorted them to find the biggest bang for buck :)
And then removed anything made by the French :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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This echoes quite a few things I've been thinking about lately on and off, and for some reason I have previously found myself looking through the BMW website at the 1 series, then I found this thread!!!
I can't think of what I would want to replace my current car with in the future, I feel like I'm waiting to see what happens with the MK8, Seat, and A3 offerings. For me it was usually a case of seeing the newer model of a car and instantly liking it and wanting to upgrade, or just getting plain bored after 2 years and having my head turned buy something else, but lately I still feel happy with what I have and don't feel the need to spend my money. Maybe that will all change when I start seeing things in the metal.
One thing that my Wife keeps saying is that if I am wanting to keep changing cars then I should go on PCP like her friends, they're driving the likes of Clio's and nothing as exotic as my tastes. I'm not so sure myself as I feel the monthly payment would be higher and at the end of the term I'd not want to fork out the balloon payment for something I've owned for years and be forced to change, but my point is that I'd feel stuck on that route and couldn't simply keep it when it's paid off at the end of a normal loan if my circumstances or mind change. Food for thought for me.
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PCP or leasing is for if you want to keep getting a new car.... ok so you could buy the vehicle from either, but thats not really how either is designed or technically what its for.
Both are about financing the first 1/2/3/4 years of a new car and not caring about the balance of the value.
You can achieve the same as HP though by simply financing the final buy with a bank loan at the end of the PCP/lease period. A bank loan is always more competitive than whatever HP the dealer is offering anyway.
PCP and leasing are easy ways of having a new car and the OEM's want to shift more new cars so make it easy for you to do so, not that you couldn't do the same thing on your own if you have the cash/credit available.
In case you haven't realised it by reading on here, the ultimate cheapo way of doing it -
1) have your own cash for an outright buy
2) get max discounts through DTD/CarWow/Broker
3) Take PCP, get manufacturer "deposit contribution" (a PCP sweetener)
4) After taking delivery, withdraw from the finance agreement, paying off the car in full, keep the "deposit contribution" as you are entitled to under FCA rules.
Obviously all of those things you can tweak to your circumstances but this is the ultimate cheapest way of buying a new car.
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PCP or leasing is for if you want to keep getting a new car.... ok so you could buy the vehicle from either, but thats not really how either is designed or technically what its for.
Both are about financing the first 1/2/3/4 years of a new car and not caring about the balance of the value.
You can achieve the same as HP though by simply financing the final buy with a bank loan at the end of the PCP/lease period. A bank loan is always more competitive than whatever HP the dealer is offering anyway.
PCP and leasing are easy ways of having a new car and the OEM's want to shift more new cars so make it easy for you to do so, not that you couldn't do the same thing on your own if you have the cash/credit available.
In case you haven't realised it by reading on here, the ultimate cheapo way of doing it -
1) have your own cash for an outright buy
2) get max discounts through DTD/CarWow/Broker
3) Take PCP, get manufacturer "deposit contribution" (a PCP sweetener)
4) After taking delivery, withdraw from the finance agreement, paying off the car in full, keep the "deposit contribution" as you are entitled to under FCA rules.
Obviously all of those things you can tweak to your circumstances but this is the ultimate cheapest way of buying a new car.
Shifting a car on every 2 years or so sounds great, I guess I'm just old fashioned and used to owning them and weighing up options. I don't think my Wife can understand how 3 years feels like an eternity when cars are your only vice haha.
Interesting points though, like you say you could take the PCP and then settle it yourself but keep the sweetener.
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If you really don't hang onto them, personal leasing is the cheapest way.... but getting the exact spec you want is hard with leasing, often lucky if you can even choose the colour.
Does let you keep swapping.
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If you really don't hang onto them, personal leasing is the cheapest way.... but getting the exact spec you want is hard with leasing, often lucky if you can even choose the colour.
Does let you keep swapping.
Perhaps if it's fairly short term, ultimate spec doesn't really matter. If the car is going to be a keeper, then have exactly what you want, but I would personally 'make do' if it was only for a year or 18 months. We all know you'll never see the money spent on options ever again.
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Perhaps if it's fairly short term, ultimate spec doesn't really matter. If the car is going to be a keeper, then have exactly what you want, but I would personally 'make do' if it was only for a year or 18 months. We all know you'll never see the money spent on options ever again.
This is true!
TBH if you are buying BMW/Audi/VW/Merc performance models none of them are exactly poverty spec.
That thing you can't live without.... you probably can.
And the colour? IMHO none are exciting, they are all a bit meh.
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I hope recent times make people reevaluate how they live month to month and are so ingrained in consumerism....
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I think I'll have to get used to keeping cars longer, things change in life with families etc. it just makes the decision of what to get and when that little bit harder, now if I could have a double garage with a daily commuter and something fun.
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I think that for some people, the journey is more important than the destination when it comes to car choice. I wonder whether recent times will change that mindset?
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Well that killed that conversation :grin:
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Well that killed that conversation :grin:
Haha :grin:
Surely Mr Sootchucker has changed his mind and put a deposit on one by now :whistle:
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Almost did Stevie........then backed out (had the spec dialled down and everything).
Nothing wrong with the BMW, really nice car and what the MK8 really should have been. I just had trouble reconciling my 2½ year old GTI which TBH, fulfils all my car wants and currently only has 14.5k miles on it, against paying £40k for something a little better built, better equipped with more tech. As I think I said before, the extra power wasn't a consideration, as if BMW had offered a 120i M-Sport with circa 230-260ps, that would have been my first choice. The AWD, would have been a nice to have (then never having it, I won't miss it). Also, other things (which may of may not be a consideration to others), were the nearly £500 per year VED, dearer insurance (by nearly £100 according to my current insurer) and worst fuel consumption (although for my small mileage, not a great consideration).
No, I think the M135i is catering for a certain Golf owner. One like yourself Stevie who is approaching the end of their PCP on their current R and there is no VW alternative at present to consider (as the performance MK8's wont be here until next year). Or someone who has a FWD hatch (GTI etc) who really wants an AWD fast hatch and can't wait 12 months for the MK8 R, or those that just don't like where the MK8 has headed (both looks and build / technology wise).
I can't deny it was super alluring but in the end, as I say, the GTI does everything I need of it for my meagre annual mileage (circa 6-7k per year). But who knows what the future will hold. I also have to say that whilst my job is currently safe (as far as I'm told), with the continued impact of COVID-19 on the worlds economy and the company I work for being a multi billion euro global unit, it did also cross my mind that now wouldn't be the most appropriate time to saddle myself with a new £40k motor (YMMV of course).
What I don't get though all being said and done, is why VW can't seem to get their act together and make the performance models available at launch whenever they launch a new version ? Especially as the GTI, GTD and R models account for a good big slice of all European Golf sales being the halo models. Surely they must know that if folk are looking for replacements for their existing MK7 and 7.5's (bearing in mind the early 7.5's are coming up to 4 years old now and the early MK7's 7-8 years old), that if there is a gap between the outgoing MK7.5 performance models and the new MK8 performance models, then people will look elsewhere and Mercedes Benz and BMW especially must be literally rubbing their hands together at VW's incompetence and missed opportunity (again).
Must admit, I never thought this thread would reach 15 pages !
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I think its reached 15 pages because we are mainly all active car swappers (company/pcp/lease or just plain daft) and with 9 months of no viable VW alternative you can even order, let alone HAVE, a lot of minds ponder the alternatives.
This hasn't been the only thread and until UK GTI order books open and the R even later, probably not the last either.
I'm going to put another radical contender on the table too.... The Polestar 2.
A proper electric car that you can feel happy about not feeding the world's #2 on the list of idiots you want to punch in the face.
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I think its reached 15 pages because we are mainly all active car swappers (company/pcp/lease or just plain daft) and with 9 months of no viable VW alternative you can even order, let alone HAVE, a lot of minds ponder the alternatives.
It's reached 15 pages because Sootchucker and Exonian take a page per post! :grin:
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It's reached 15 pages because Sootchucker and Exonian take a page per post! :grin:
I thought I wrote large posts... until I came here lol
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All things being equal, cost of purchase (to equivalent spec), running costs and insurance what would you be going with on current versions?
I think I would be heading to the A35 right now.
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The no-brainer is the M135i IMHO.
Much nicer and cheaper than the Merc.
With the M135i the problem is finding the excuse not too really...
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Almost did Stevie........then backed out (had the spec dialled down and everything).
I'm sure you will have another go once the "Man maths" takes over.
Tax might be nearer to the £500 mark but as Monkeyhanger says its only an extra £375 in reality and he's the finance guru, so that's good enough for me :grin:
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Almost did Stevie........then backed out (had the spec dialled down and everything).
I'm sure you will have another go once the "Man maths" takes over.
Tax might be nearer to the £500 mark but as Monkeyhanger says its only an extra £375 in reality and he's the finance guru, so that's good enough for me :grin:
That's an extra £325 (over the standard £150), surely that's irresistible as it's £50 less than you thought? :grin:
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Almost did Stevie........then backed out (had the spec dialled down and everything).
I'm sure you will have another go once the "Man maths" takes over.
Tax might be nearer to the £500 mark but as Monkeyhanger says its only an extra £375 in reality and he's the finance guru, so that's good enough for me :grin:
That's an extra £325 (over the standard £150), surely that's irresistible as it's £50 less than you thought? :grin:
There you go my point exactly. :grin:
That can go towards swapping out the front grille for a black one!!
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Who knows what tomorrow will bring. I'm sure you will love you new motor mate.
There..... is that post short enough ;D
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I think that for some people, the journey is more important than the destination when it comes to car choice.
Absolutely so
Well that killed that conversation :grin:
Almost! :grin:
It's reached 15 pages because Sootchucker and Exonian take a page per post! :grin:
I think you must have me mixed up with someone else :whistle: :lipsrsealed: :grin:
I do have an uncharacteristically long post up my sleeve but have been insanely busy for weeks and it doesn’t look like relenting just yet so just haven’t had the time.
It’ll keep.
But I do have news.
And some thoughts one or two of you might find useful.
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I do have an uncharacteristically long post up my sleeve but have been insanely busy for weeks and it doesn’t look like relenting just yet so just haven’t had the time.
It’ll keep.
But I do have news.
And some thoughts one or two of you might find useful.
You can't leave it there! Your signature does contain a clue, spill the beans!
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Well, I did it.
Shoved a deposit on an M135i a few weeks ago and finally collected it during the bank holiday weekend as I’d just been too darned busy beforehand.
Probably the car I should have bought last year but for a few reasons I didn’t. It was more for people reasons I stuck with VW last year and bought a TCR and I enjoyed using it for around five months putting on a fair few miles until I did my back in.
I’m not going to sit here and bleat on about what a fantastic purchase I’ve made. I have no emotional connection to BMW (aside from a soft spot for sporty Minis) and I think the only BMW I’ve ever really liked was the mid-80’s 325i aside from an admiration that BMW actually produced something like the previous M135i and M140i in this day and age.
I’m a VW person at heart and this is a GTI forum so I’ll quickly run through a few things as to how the cars compare back to back.
Firstly looks. The mk7 wins hands down for me. The mk8 doesn’t do anything for me at all in any of the specs seen so far. I hope the 8R pulls the rabbit out of the hat though.
The M135i has the look of one of those horrid BMW SUV’s with the middle slimmed out like a three layer sponge cake with the central layer removed.
It kind of looks ok to me and the back end looks good. Both of my sons said independently it reminded them of a Golf proportion wise. The car has a lot of details you just don’t see in photos.
At night the BMW turns the tables and easily wins, and not just because you can’t see it properly in the dark!
Inside, quality wise it’s more A3 than Golf in most areas. The plastics feel very familiar BMW and Mini, the iDrive is intuitive, the display graphics are sharper and have better definition than the mk7(.5) but the screens seem smaller.
The leather is soft and supple, the steering wheel is nice to hold and has decent paddle shifters as standard.
The one area Sootchucker has focussed on, the gadgets and tech, are a step up from the mk7 but only marginally so. There is only so much information you can play with before you realise quickly you don’t need it or use it very often and in fact it’s the most simple display that is actually the most useful one - the HUD.
A bit like moving from an Android to iOS or vice versa, you quickly learn what you need to and most of the rest of it becomes white noise unless you spend ages sat in stationary cars fiddling with buttons and screens.
Oh, yes, it has plenty of buttons to press!
But how many buttons do we need to press once our ideal settings are found day to day? How many programs do we actually use on our washing machines? Maybe the mk8 designers weren’t so wide of the mark after all. I still think the mk7.5 is a happy medium.
A gadget freak like Sootchucker will love the buttons, sub-menus and random features in a 135i but once I’ve played around with them once or twice I find it all a bit meh and tend to leave it in a convenient setting and not fiddle around again.
With the Tech and Plus packs there are plenty of features you could play around with such as infinitely variable sound system and a variety of park assistant features I’ll personally probably never use.
The gadgets are certainly there if you want to play around with them but I’m sure the novelty would quickly wear off and aside from clearer graphics it hasn’t moved on massively from the mk7.5
The HUD is really useful though and information displayed can be minimal or quite a bit.
I’ve gone for absolute minimal as there are only so many maps I want to glance at, so many different screens and so much driver info.
In fact with this car one feature is quite hard to read but has almost become redundant.
The rev counter.
This engine is all about torque.
This is the feature that won me over.
Where the normal GTI engine has plenty of torque over a really useful range and the R/TCR engine is all about revs, the 135i is free revving but lower revving than the R engine but feels really potent because of the torque delivery. It’s probably no quicker at all than a Golf R against a stop watch but is very satisfying to drive. Whether it’s by design or not I don’t know but it feels like a bigger capacity engine.
From inside it sounds like a bigger capacity engine too. Unlike the tinny VW Soundaktor which makes a noise like a misfiring VW Beetle flat 4, the 135’s engine noise comes in through the hi-fi speakers and is programmed to sound somewhere between a V8 and straight 6.
The gearbox is a proper auto and at normal speeds I prefer it to the DSG. It doesn’t change up quite so early and nor does it have that annoying clutch slipping effect at times when using low to medium throttle pulling away.
Kickdown is a bit slower than DSG but is countered for when the engine torque kicks in once on song.
Very early days here so far so I’m still familiarising.
Suspension and steering feel much busier than on a mk7 Golf.
Both feel more Mini which belies the car’s underpinnings.
The car feels sharp and alive but less relaxing than a Golf.
I’m not sure if it’s the high torque and LSD shunting power constantly about but it feels fidgety at times.
Mine is on 19’s with no adaptive suspension and the ride is very firm.
Firm and jiggly on bad surfaces, noisy at times too but not jarring or crashy.
Unlike the TCR it doesn’t jar my back over sudden irregularities but it does transmit sudden bumps through its firm suspension more as noise than anything.
The demo on 18’s I tried last year was much more compliant but also looked crap as the car needs 19’s to look right.
I considered a 24 month PCP (that’s quite long enough a commitment to one car for me) on a new car but in the end I stuck to my old habits of buying a well priced already registered dealer stock car that a sales manager needed shot of.
25% cheaper than list price, a couple thousand on the clock, no finance agreement to tie me in...
It works for me. Bank loans are still cheaper than PCP and allow flexibility to modify the car as I fully “own“ it or I can sell it whenever I please.
I have no plans to do any mods to the car, it doesn’t even need a pedalbox.
I’m sure the lure of returning to VW won’t be too far away, but then again maybe not? Let’s see what the 8R is all about VW as I sure don’t like what I’ve seen so far.
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Congratulations :smiley: You missed out on two important points though, colour and pictures :whistle:
Also 10/10 for post timing consistency! 00:18 must be the sweet spot for you!
I hope it grows on you so you can enjoy it lookswise as well as driving. I too quite like the low torque approach but I find the TCR little different to the PP on that score, but it was the flattening out of power higher up that annoyed me where the TCR is so much better.
Anyway, enjoy!
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Congrats from me too. Like you say I do like my toys and technology but as you mentioned (and I'd mentioned before) once you have played around with it for a few weeks, how much will you actually use on a day to day basis ? I remember getting my 1st MK7 and thinking it would take me forever to get used to the tech, but of course it didn't and after a few weeks, it sorta faded into the background.
As to the looks I actually don't mind it, but never really gelled with the grey trims on the front bumper and grill, and think if I ever did own one, the 1st thing I would do is change them for the gloss black versions, which I think makes the front end look much more sporty.
There's no doubting it's a very tempting package, and I think if I do change my mind (unlikely but you never know) and jump ship in the next 12 months (like a lot on here), it will also be a pre-registered car as the discounts off list price are too good to miss.
Enjoy the car and as Watts said, don't forget to post up some photos :)
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Congratulations :smiley: You missed out on two important points though, colour and pictures :whistle:
Also 10/10 for post timing consistency! 00:18 must be the sweet spot for you!
I hope it grows on you so you can enjoy it lookswise as well as driving. I too quite like the low torque approach but I find the TCR little different to the PP on that score, but it was the flattening out of power higher up that annoyed me where the TCR is so much better.
Anyway, enjoy!
Thanks Watts!
How odd that the post times were identical, one post took considerably longer to type than the other!
Colour: grey. Storm Bay to be precise which does indeed look like a storm cloud. It’s a pearlescent that looks like Pure Grey with some leftover Misano Blue mixed in with it. It’s not white at least.
Pictures: yeah, I’ll get round to it! I keep thinking I’ll go somewhere and take a few photos but I keep getting sidetracked and waylaid at home plus everywhere local to me is packed out with tourists.
I do actually like the look of the car, that might not come across in the post. I was tired and trying to be semi-critical from a mk7 owner’s point of view to convey differences.
The TCR engine was pretty spot on for a FWD chassis. A broad torque spread and very responsive right through the range. Adding significantly more low end torque would have totally overpowered the front wheels unless they put in an overboost feature in third gear... :whistle:
I’d love to see how the MINI GP copes with the torque of the 135i engine and FWD. Maybe they have a torque limiter in the lower gears.
Congrats from me too. Like you say I do like my toys and technology but as you mentioned (and I'd mentioned before) once you have played around with it for a few weeks, how much will you actually use on a day to day basis ? I remember getting my 1st MK7 and thinking it would take me forever to get used to the tech, but of course it didn't and after a few weeks, it sorta faded into the background.
As to the looks I actually don't mind it, but never really gelled with the grey trims on the front bumper and grill, and think if I ever did own one, the 1st thing I would do is change them for the gloss black versions, which I think makes the front end look much more sporty.
There's no doubting it's a very tempting package, and I think if I do change my mind (unlikely but you never know) and jump ship in the next 12 months (like a lot on here), it will also be a pre-registered car as the discounts off list price are too good to miss.
Enjoy the car and as Watts said, don't forget to post up some photos :)
Thanks Andrew :afro:
If planning to keep the car for a significant amount of time (three years plus) then buying new with your perfect spec would make sense as the deals for PCP’s are very very good.
I actually quite like the browny grey grille and canards. They’re unique to the car and offer a bit of contrast but that would very much depend on what colour the car is painted.
Conversely the all black grille can look like a cartoon dog’s nose...
Oh, just remembered another thing, the windscreen reflects the top of the dashboard quite badly.
There are pros and cons of both Golf and M135i.
For me it’s the lack of back pain coupled with its different enough for me to justify spending significant amounts of money to change car after such a short time.
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@Exonian - you finally did it then :grin:. unlike some of the long posters on some other forums I visit fairly frequently, I always read yours, as yours are interesting and informative.
Good first impressions of BMW ownership. I think I’d describe the looks of the current 1 series as distinctive rather than a really good looking car. I do like it though, and certainly prefer it to the mk8 Golf. The interior of the 1 series does look much nicer and better thought out than the mk8 Golf though - IMO of course.
Enjoy your new car, and even though you’ve now jumped ship into BMW territory, don’t be a stranger. :smiley:
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The TCR engine was pretty spot on for a FWD chassis. A broad torque spread and very responsive right through the range. Adding significantly more low end torque would have totally overpowered the front wheels unless they put in an overboost feature in third gear... :whistle:
I’d love to see how the MINI GP copes with the torque of the 135i engine and FWD. Maybe they have a torque limiter in the lower gears.
I'm finding even the slightest of damp has the Pirellis scrabbling for grip, a few days ago I had the traction control light flashing at 60mph during acceleration which I didn't think was that aggressive, it was only in D afterall...
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Good first impressions of BMW ownership. I think I’d describe the looks of the current 1 series as distinctive rather than a really good looking car. I do like it though, and certainly prefer it to the mk8 Golf. The interior of the 1 series does look much nicer and better thought out than the mk8 Golf though - IMO of course.
Enjoy your new car, and even though you’ve now jumped ship into BMW territory, don’t be a stranger. :smiley:
Thanks SR :smiley:
The BMW is acceptable rather than handsome but the same can be said at best for all of this latest generation of hatches.
I sat outside of a SEAT dealership while my son dropped off his Ibiza for a service on Tuesday and there was a new Leon being collected. It was certainly a step backward from the last generation in looks, same for the Focus, Golf and so on.
....
Watts, maybe you need to turn your pedalbox down a notch or two!! :grin:
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Congrats on the new baby! Storm Bay... suits you sir! Definitely my pick of the colours.
The one area Sootchucker has focussed on, the gadgets and tech, are a step up from the mk7 but only marginally so. There is only so much information you can play with before you realise quickly you don’t need it or use it very often and in fact it’s the most simple display that is actually the most useful one - the HUD.
A bit like moving from an Android to iOS or vice versa, you quickly learn what you need to and most of the rest of it becomes white noise unless you spend ages sat in stationary cars fiddling with buttons and screens.
Oh, yes, it has plenty of buttons to press!
But how many buttons do we need to press once our ideal settings are found day to day? How many programs do we actually use on our washing machines? Maybe the mk8 designers weren’t so wide of the mark after all. I still think the mk7.5 is a happy medium.
A gadget freak like Sootchucker will love the buttons, sub-menus and random features in a 135i but once I’ve played around with them once or twice I find it all a bit meh and tend to leave it in a convenient setting and not fiddle around again.
I think a lot of the focus of reviewers is on such things these days, because thats where things are "new". Nobody ever mentions how air vents or cup holders are in crap places.... or my particular Mk7 gripe, that the MIB buttons and the function buttons around the gearstick are not swapped round for RHD cars. Why didn't someone ever moan about that?
No, much of the reviewers noise is just noise, they have to write something and short of saying what its 0-60 time is, what else can you truly say after everyone has written about a car?
I'm thinking about what tech I use in my Mk7 vs some of the sh1tbuckets my kids drive. Most of it you only notice when you don't have it but I suppose that is the sign of a good bit of tech, that it seemlessly integrates with you.
Things I like on my Mk7 - auto lights, auto windscreen wipers, auto climate control, digital dash, dipping lefthand mirror, powerful LED headlights, AndroidAuto, ACC... and a comfortable seat!
Things I wish I had and I know will be on pretty much whatever I choose next - HUD, wireless Android Auto and an auto box (with ACC and trafficjam assist)
Do my kids sh1tbuckets get me from A to B? Well of course they do, well most of the time.
Would I choose to drop 35k+ on a car without the bits I am used to and like from a Mk7? I don't think I would.
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Watts, maybe you need to turn your pedalbox down a notch or two!! :grin:
Actually that is a really good point. I switched it off a few weeks ago and couldn't remember what all the colours were when I switched it back on so I guessed. I'd better check :grin:
Edit - just checked and I had it set to sport+ with 1 green light instead of sport. I've upped that now to 2 green lights and see how I get on.
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Great review as always Andy.
Really enjoy your insight.
I suppose with the Tech, its one of those things you take for granted once you've messed about with it and set it up how you like it. Chances are you don't need to touch it again as it just works.
The grille could be worse I suppose if the new 4 series is anything to go by!!!
Although I have noticed quite a few cars recently going with the big grille. Unfortunately it will probably be something they all follow.
(https://cdn.carbuzz.com/gallery-images/840x560/681000/100/681126.jpg)
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I'm sure people will still buy it, but deary me what were they thinking?
:sick:
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Have you seen the skoda suv with the light up grill? Urgh
Here it is... Skoda Enyaq - presumably thats the noise you make when you look at it:
(https://carwow-uk-wp-1.imgix.net/skoda-enyaq-iv-green-parked-front-1.jpg?auto=format&cs=tinysrgb&fit=clip&ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=60&w=750)
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Those are two shocking looking vehicles!
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SUV's aren't really my thing anyway, but the Enyaq is a masterpiece compared to the front end of that 4 Series.
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If the grill was gloss black that's actually a nice looking Skoda. BMW have lost the plot with the mahoosive grills on new cars.
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When we’re all driving around in electric milk floats, front grilles will be surplus to requirements. So when that time comes we may well see a change in the general approach to front end car design, which IMO will be a good thing when you look at some of the current oversized grilles.
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Lol that skoda is a milk float... And still has a garbage front end.
But yes I agree that designs for milk floats could and should be unbound from convention.
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Scroll to the left to remove most or all of the grille on that 4 series and it’s a really handsome car.
Maybe with an extra wide number plate plinth to dissect the height of the grille it’ll look bearable.
Eww.
No comment on the Skoda. Just a bunch of geometric lines to break up a featureless front end. The grille possibly isn’t its worst feature!
Milk floats offer a huge opportunity to reinvent sports cars and hot hatches.
All that battery weight (and lets be honest, range should be compromised for performance in cars of that ilk to keep weight down) slung down low in the chassis, the possibilities of really good aerodynamics with no lumpen engine sat in front of the cabin, wheels pushed right out into the corners and immense torque from standstill to whatever speed they decide to cap it at.
Bring it on.
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Too low at the front and it won't meet pedestrian safety regs.
I've just bought a Scirocco and it reminded me that I'd read years ago about how they had to raise it (hence the big wheel arch gaps) as the leading edge of the bonnet was too low.
I'm sure that BMW won't look like that. The way the kidney grille cuts into the lower middle opening is just wrong.
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they are actually already on sale in some markets - exactly like the photo
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50046418056_6f209369f0_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jfqYuQ)
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'kinell!!!
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I've just bought a Scirocco
What brought that on? What do you think of it?
Always regretted not buying a Scirocco at some point.
My first ever car was a mk1 Scirocco GTI
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they are actually already on sale in some markets - exactly like the photo
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50046418056_6f209369f0_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jfqYuQ)
Quite liking the front of my electric milk float.... :grin:
(https://i.postimg.cc/FHYGnCCy/F669-ED48-F16-F-4-BC0-BCC5-50-D082355-CDB.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VJcjJg8v)
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I've just bought a Scirocco
What brought that on? What do you think of it?
Always regretted not buying a Scirocco at some point.
My first ever car was a mk1 Scirocco GTI
I had 2 Sciroccos, when the MK6 was just too ugly to consider and very expensive for what it was, poorly equipped as standard too, before moving back to the MK7 Golf.
March 09 bought a 140TDI GT in Pewter grey (violet undertones - not sure why they ditched that colour, it was great. The 170 wasn't out at the time and the salesperson implied it wasn't coming to the Scirocco.
6 months later I found out the salesman had lied. The 170 was coming. At 18 months old the Pewter grey Scirocco was swapped for a 170 GT in Rising blue.
When it first came out everyone was looking at my Sciroccp when out and about. Loved it, apart from the PITA wide doors which were a bugger in car parks if you parked next to someone or someone parked next to you.
When the new shape TT came out, I thought the Scirocco looked a bit long in the tooth and was begging for a new model but VW weren't prepared to bring a new one out.
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I've just bought a Scirocco
What brought that on? What do you think of it?
Always regretted not buying a Scirocco at some point.
My first ever car was a mk1 Scirocco GTI
It's for my lad. He will probably have to wait a year or two before he can insure it, being not quite 17 at the moment, but it's a really nice one, so shouldn't loose any money.
It's a 2009 2.0 TFSI GT. Grey with brown leather and a fair few options. I really like it. It needs a little bit of love, but it's a genuine, not messed with looked after little car.
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I also had a 2011 Scirocco (140 diesel GT), and it was one of the most fun car's I've ever owned (and my wife's favourite car to date), even if it was a diesel with only 140ps. As MH said, the doors were big and clumsy, and I was forever banging my head on the roof of the car getting out, but it did have a charm all of it's own. It was a pretty decent motor.
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It's for my lad. He will probably have to wait a year or two before he can insure it, being not quite 17 at the moment, but it's a really nice one, so shouldn't loose any money.
It's a 2009 2.0 TFSI GT. Grey with brown leather and a fair few options. I really like it. It needs a little bit of love, but it's a genuine, not messed with looked after little car.
What a cool car for a lad of that age.
Well, it’s a cool car for a lad of any age! Lucky chap. :afro:
I saw a white one with black Luganos earlier in a hand wash place :rolleyes:
Aside from the swirls it must’ve been picking up it looked pretty fab.
MH & Sootchucker, one of the main reasons I didn’t get a Scirocco was the doors. I had a single garage at the time and there’s no way I’d have been able to get in or out without having to resort to a Dukes of Hazzard.
I loved the Pewter Grey too. Replaced by Indium after a while which we can but assume was for materials cost reasons?!
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I didn't think Indium was a patch on the Pewter it replaced. You say cost savings, VW say weight savings! :grin:
Dubber: is the Scirocco manual? If so, I'd look to swap out the standard ball on the end of a stick gear kever with the Scirocco R one, it was so much more ergonomical in use. At the time there was someone from Portugal selling them new on Ebay for about £90 - I assumed he worked at the VW sebutal plant where the Scirocco was built and punching them by the dozen.
Also worth checking it over with OBD11 for mods. XDS+ was a £280 option when I got mine, yet it was a tick box exercise with VCDS to activate it for free. Can't remember if there was any other hardware present options to activate.
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It is a manual and like most of it's age, the numbers have all but worn off, so a replacement is on the list.
I've got the DRLs turned off by turning them to USA mode (reduced dipped beam with no tail lights) then turned the brightness value down to 0%. Xenons are next on the list. These seem straight forward as Kufatec do an adaptor harness. It needs a new BCM to make them bend, but I'm not fussed about that.
Frustratingly, as it has red clocks, there is no big digital speedo hidden away.
Whilst in VCDS, I did tick the box for sunroof, but that didn't seem to work. The roof is still hole free.
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Finally arrived.
8 weeks from order to delivery.
Only driven it the 400 odd miles home, so yet to drive it in anger.
I've never been one to jump into a new car and be completely happy. I guess its to do with being 100% comfortable with the old one but I was close with this one :smiley:
It does seem a lot lighter than the R that it replaced and more nimble like the GTI.
The biggest thing I noticed on the drive home was the suspension. Its on 19s like the R was and both had standard suspension but that's where the similarities end. The least wee pothole on the road with the R and I felt like it had hit a crater. It always sounded nasty and I expected the worst.
With the BMW I wouldn't even know there was a pothole. It just seems to glide over them without issue.
Yet I would never have said the R's suspension was crashy.
Nearly managed London to Glasgow on the delivery tank of fuel but chickened out at the last minute. The car was saying I'd make it but I didn't have a clue how accurate that was and that was me going up and down the gears / revs rather than sit in 8th gear all the way home.
So far I'm very impressed.
Old to new:
(https://i.imgur.com/W932Mk0.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/nfAlKL1.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Q0HG5bu.jpg)
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Nice one!
The only thing I feel bad about with the BMW defections is losing people from here - I really like the people here. I enjoy this forum much more than anything else on the internet right now and that's a bit odd because I'm not really a total petrolhead.
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Probably a stupid question but how come the grill is black on the 135? Think it looks alot better with it being black tbh. Also where’s the black rear spoiler from? Is it an M performance part?
Oh and Fred, you are spot on there about the forum. :smiley:
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Nice one!
The only thing I feel bad about with the BMW defections is losing people from here - I really like the people here. I enjoy this forum much more than anything else on the internet right now and that's a bit odd because I'm not really a total petrolhead.
Well said Fred, there seems to be a really good group on here and it is fascinating to hear how people are assessing/judging their next car purchase. We all seem to be conflicted on the choices available.
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Very nice p3asa, congratulations ,same colour as mine, love the Misano, I like the black grill, canards and the M mirrors. Did the dealer fit those for you pre collection?
I like those wheels as well, (552's?) I have the 557's on mine but I had not seen yours before I ordered mine, I think if I had I would have specced those. The red leather looks great as too- I didnt think it would work but IMO it does.
I have the standard alcantara M-seats in mine but I love them,for me so comfortable and supportive.
I am on about 2200 miles now, when you get to about 1500 miles something changes and its like someone has turned it up a notch or two,see what you think when your mileage gets up a bit.
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Thanks guys.
The grille, canards (air intakes) and wing mirrors were all cerium grey.
I personally don't think it works on the blue but does with other colours so asked the dealer to change them.
I'm surprised BMW don't offer a black pack as they would make a decent profit.
The rear spoiler is the M Performance which the dealer put on for me and flung in M wing mirror covers.
The burnt orange interior with blue isn't for everyone but I like it.
As for the forum, as Fred said it really is a friendly place. Ive joined a few BMW forums and they are far from friendly at times.
I'd much rather be here (which I will) without a Golf than there with a BMW :laugh: