GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: Norn Iron on 01 June 2020, 11:14
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Hi,
We are up-sizing tomorrow! We are trading in our Polo GTI for a Golf Mk7.5 GTi PP. This was due to happen end of March but for some reason it was delayed!
Despite the Polo GTi bring £10k cheaper, it doesn't tick all our boxes since we got it from new 2 years ago.
I would welcome any advice on a couple of issues.
1) My only major concern is Keyless Entry. We would like to disable it.
I'm more than happy with the remote control fob that has worked well on my cars I've had since the last Century! I've read some of the feedback here that if you push the button etc it will do this. However, when I texted the Showroom (working from home) I was advised that it's only a temporary measure and shouldn't be used on a long term basis. Any thoughts on whether this is true and what can be done, would be greatly appreciated.
2) Now that we are swapping the Polo GTI, I have been driving it in Sport Mode. Due to the lockdown, I haven't refilled the tank so can't do a proper MPG. Are there any MPG differences between Sport and Eco and if so, what?
If anyone would like me to do a review on our pending upgrade from a Polo GTI to the 7.5PP, just let me know.
Many thanks.
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Not sure on if its model year specific but if you lock you car with the fob and then touch the door handle within a few seconds it disables keyless. - But you have to do it every time you lock, its not a permanent setting.
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I've read some of the feedback here that if you push the button etc it will do this. However, when I texted the Showroom (working from home) I was advised that it's only a temporary measure and shouldn't be used on a long term basis. Any thoughts on whether this is true and what can be done, would be greatly appreciated.
Dealer's talking bollocks.
Personally I deactivate keyless every time I lock the car. It's all a matter of getting into the sequence routine, once you're in it'll become second nature. Lock car with fob, then press the keyless 'button' on the handle within a few seconds, this completely deactivates keyless until the car is next unlocked with the fob.
My demo of how to do it... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s88dU2jzQw
EDIT to add - as mentioned below, home security (locks etc) is just as important as deactivation. If they can't get it via relay, they 'may' come back to try and force entry.
:)
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@Norm Iron; As an owner of a previous generation Polo GTI who’s considering changing their car later this year, I’d be interested to hear which boxes your Polo GTI didn’t tick.
Nothing in the owners manual that states temporarily disabling keyless entry shouldn’t be used on a long term basis, so I’d say the dealer is talking rubbish. If you’re worried about potential theft risks associated with keyless entry and the signal being intercepted by perpetrators with signal relay equipment, then you could always keep your keys in something like a Faraday pouch or metal biscuit tin when you’re at home to block the signal if you don’t want to use the temporary disabling function. From what I’ve read on various VW forums, it seems there’s a higher incidence of car thefts as a result of the keys being stolen from owners homes rather than the key fob signal being intercepted on keyless cars, so upgrading your home security is worth considering.
I thought the main difference between the driving modes was the throttle mapping, so in Eco you need to push the accelerator pedal harder to reduce / eliminate the dull throttle response, which probably defeats the the purpose of Eco, if you’re having to use a heavier right foot. IMO driving a performance car in Eco mode kind of defeats the purpose of having a performance car. Just my opinion though.
Would be interested in your ‘upgrade’ review, once you’ve had an opportunity to drive your new car. Forum member Monkeyhanger did the opposite to you; he sold his performance Golf (Golf R) and replaced it with a Polo GTI+, and then got a second Polo GTI+ for his wife.
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The only advantage economywise with Eco mode is the coasting function (possibly only on DSG?) which will only be effective on long steady runs. The disadvantage of Eco is making your GTI feel more like a 1.0 in response. I don't bother. Otherwise if you want to be economical just adopt an economical approach to the way you drive. Mine is in Normal for the trottle all the time (albeit with a pedalbox to up the throttle response) and I get excellent economy when I want it.
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There is some differences to MPG on eco mode but not enough for you to care IMHO.
ECO mode ALSO turns the aircon to low (ie inneffective) and the cornering lights off... it also sets ACC to slug mode, which is dangerous on the motorway IMHO.
Personally, just learn to push the throttle gently and back off regularly, don't floor it unless you need to (not every traffic light is the lights going out at Silverstone) and don't try to drive too fast. The difference between 70mph and 80mph on the motorway is quite a lot of fuel - drag is an exponential force.
Obviously thats for everyday and not when you want a bit of fun, but doing the boring stuff at a sensible pace can really make a large difference over the miles and years.
A modern hot hatch like a Golf can return reasonable fuel economy, you don't need to waste fuel unless its for fun.
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One of the best tips we were told at work was let it coast for a minimum of 3 seconds before you plan on touching the brakes.
I often use this technique when coming off the motorway or coming up to a junction.
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Thanks everybody for your advice. Superb. Eco it won't be!
Thanks also to KMPowell. I will be forwarding the video to the showroom. Excellent.
Yep, the Faraday Cage principle I understand. However, to then keep it at a different location to my keyring seems to defeat the object of making life easier! I don't see Keyless Entry being anything but a hindrance in our case.
I used to go onto the Polo forum and am aware of Monkeyhangar (Hartlepool?). I started a thread on there re squeaky rear brakes as we were getting nowhere to alleviate this noise.
Our main reason for up-sizing is for my wife's betterment! Slightly longer leg room, slightly wider space and dual climate controls were paramount in our decision making. The fact that I've always wanted a Golf GTI, which my wife knows all too well about, and would have the upgrades required was one thing but to find an ex-demo with £10K knocked off the original list price was another! I couldn't initially justify the price difference between a Polo GTI and its bigger brother.
The old saying that you should never buy a new model in its first year of production is certainly true in our case. Too many issues and phone calls/emails to VW Customer Service to flag issues they were unaware of confirms, that in our case, the old saying is true. Now that the Polo GTI is into its third year of manufacture, I hope they've fixed all those annoying niggles, the brakes in particular. I did receive a very nice food hamper from Customer Service so it wasn't all bad!
Having had a test drive of it, pre-lockdown, the first major difference is in the sound of the doors bring shut! Polos are tinny compared to that classic, aircraft door locking sound in the Golf. Apart from that, I can't remember much else in driving differences. Will advise later on!
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Welcome Norn Iron :smiley:
I’m not a huge fan of keyless either, I’ve had it on two cars now and am unconvinced of its worth.
Not from the theft angle, I just don’t see the point of it unless you carry a massive handbag with the car key at the bottom of it buried.
The comparison review is compulsory by the way! We’d love to hear your thoughts :smiley:
Oh, and congrats!
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Thanks Exonian for your kind words. If it's compulsory, then I will abide by the rules!
Will post in a few days time but under a new heading.
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I’m from norm iron as well and have 7.5 performance one. Don’t drive it in eco Just have fun in it. What colour is yours Might see you cruising the roads gettin used to it lol
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'...bout ye!
Re: we are up-sizing tomorrow. Welcome. :smiley: Have things gone to plan? Any pics? Spec?
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The keyless doors you can disable via vcds or obdeleven but it doesn’t do the boot
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I’m from norm iron as well and have 7.5 performance one. Don’t drive it in eco Just have fun in it. What colour is yours Might see you cruising the roads gettin used to it lol
Thanks Toeman for advice. I drove the Polo GTI until recently in Eco but would shift into Sport when overtaking. This was a better option than being permanently in Eco and then wanting to overtake as there was too much lag.
Just come back from our first drive along the coast. 55 mile round trip. 36 MPG. Considering all the braking and occasional stopping I would say that was ok. Hopefully, a decent run would see it add a few more miles per gallon?
I will do a proper comparison with the Polo GTI in a few days but our initial thoughts are Wow! My wife is currently very unwell but the leather bucket seat and extra leg room in the front well, meant she had a great, comfortable ride unlike the previous car.
As you said just have fun with it. Towards the end, I felt confident to try out the split diffs a try on a bend I know really well. Incredible! The Polo gti would not have given me the wow factor and wouldn't have gone round that sharp bend stuck to the road like a limpet.
The big question though is the Golf GTI worth another £10k on top of the Polo version bearing in mind the size isn't that much bigger? As we got an ex-demo with only 1600 miles on the clock and £10,000 knocked off (a year old but hasn't been driven for yonks) it is a no brainer! Our trade in value was also on our side.
Had there not been 10k reduction would I have bought it? No, because I couldn't have justified spending well over £30k for a car even if it was a Golf GTI. However, and this is a massive however, it's the law of diminished returns. Nigel Tufnel, the 'legendary' guitarist described his amp as "One louder" than all the others. That's it. Our Nigel would understand! Everything about the Golf GTI is just one louder in every department compared to the Olop. The Polo was great to drive, don't get me wrong. It performed brilliantly on long journeys. But to receive one more mark in every department, individually and collectively over the Polo, the price will inevitably add up.
When you put it like that, had VW made the Mk7.5 like the Polo GTI but just on a slightly bigger chassis, there's no way it would be worth an extra £10k. But VW haven't. I'm beginning to appreciate this now after just a few hours. Everything, and I mean everything, is just one better. With everything representing so many different parts, accessories, interior and exterior functions, the law of diminished returns demands an extra £10,000.
Blimey, the above was almost a full review!
Thanks to all those who explained how to switch off the Keyless Entry. The method works very well.
If anyone could tell me what I'm likely to achieve fuel consumption wise, that would be great. To summarise: the Polo GTI MPG, on a decent motorway/dual carriageway journey of 40 miles, would return around 45mpg with the occasional 50mpg. A typical B road journey with a few junction stops would achieve around 40mpg.
I'll do a full review comparison in a few days time.
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I’d be getting about 42 - 43 mpg on run like that at legal speeds.
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Hi Norn Iron
Apologies for the vernacular greeting earlier, thought it might be a clue of my locale. My average over the circa 4K miles I have done in my car over the last 18 months is 28.1! I have not been ‘flying low’ nor ignoring speed limits but have indulged in some spirited acceleration, - part of the raison d’etre for GTI ownership. I took my car out tonight on a drive around mostly ‘A’ and a couple of ‘B’ roads in Co Down, which were pretty deserted. To try it I drove in eco and sedately, to see what I might get. I covered 33miles and averaged 32. This is the best I have achieved and it’s still not great. My car is one of the last GTIs 230bhp and six speed DSG. I too wonder if mileage will improve. My car has about 6.5k on the clock. I accept GTIs are not about economy and hope things might still improve as the car accrues some miles.
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MPG is dependent on 4 main factors, with respect to a particular car:-
1. Driving style. You can have a heavy right foot and still drive economically if you read the road ahead well to preserve momentum and come off the throttle early rather than accelerating towards a situation that'll require you to brake.
2. Congestion. If you are in stop-start situations with a low average speed, your mpg will suffer. You'll see the difference between a normal working week and a week with the school holidays and lots of parents off work. Right now, with loads of people working from home or furloughed, the roads are much quieter and most still driving will have seen a mpg increase as a result.
3. Length of journey. A longer journey will give you better mpg. The car's economy is poor when cold and much better when hot. The longer the journey, the less that cold part of the journey has an influence on the overall trip. If you're doing a longer journey, it's more likely to be predominantly at a decent cruising speed with less gear changes.
4. Average speed for trip. Linked to congestion, if you are on mainly 50/60mph roads, you're going to be in the sweet spot for fuel economy. If you're crawling through 20mph roads littered with speed bumps, not so much.
When I had my 2013 GTD, I had an 8 mile commute through a split of urban crawl and dual carriageway 70mph roads. I did about 42mpg average on that commute.
In my Golf R on the same commute, it was about 32mpg.
Changing jobs, I had a 20 mile commute. I got 36mpg in the Golf R, but on occasion I took the wife's A1 1.6TDI and hammered it, getting 65mpg for the journey (the wife was lucky to see 40mpg on her 8 mile commute).
Fast forward to my Polo GTI+. A 13 mile commute with 3 miles of it within congestion prone areas. On a good day it was 37mpg, on a bad day it was 28mpg.
Still in the GTI+, but with a 32 mile drive at 70mph down the A19 on my current commute, I get about 44mpg.
In summary:
Unless you drive like a nun, you're unlikely to see 40mpg in a Golf GTI unless your journey length exceeds 25 miles on relatively uncongested roads.
Unless you drive like a nutter, you are unlikely to see less than 25mpg unless your journey length is under 5 miles or your journey is incredibly congested.
Buying a hot hatch and driving it in Eco all the time makes no sense to me. Relative to the journey you're doing, your mpg is unlikely to change appreciably between Eco and Sport - the free wheeling gains in Eco are very small, the other energy saving things like turning off cornering lights etc save very little, but you'll have a very much dulled throttle. Your car will lose thousands in depreciation every year. Driving like a nun to positive effect your fuel bill by maybe £150 a year is crazy. If you're looking to do that, you might as well've bought a well specced 1.0TSI variant.
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Another way to look at it is that if you want a hot hatch, then the GTI will be probably be the most economical option whichever way you drive and whatever type of roads you drive on. There doesn't appear to be any other hatches on the market with similar performance with better economy and most would be quite a bit poorer.
There are diesel (warm hatch?) options of course but would you buy one of those with your own money at the mo? Maybe only if you do 20k/year and mostly on motorways.
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Blimey, the above was almost a full review!
That was a very good off the cuff summary there!
Pretty much spot on with the likening of the Golf feeling ‘up one notch’ in nearly all areas.
My son has a current generation Ibiza which feels very similar in quality and build to the latest Polos, and I find it a really nice car both inside and out but there’s no denying the feel of the Golf has a certain something in almost every department that the (ever so slightly) smaller car lacks.
In isolation the Ibiza feels really good but when climbing into the Golf straight afterwards it’s clear where the extra money has been spent.
The GTI has a smallish turbo that spins up really quickly producing a very good torque spread in both Polo and Golf versions. It’s quite an efficient set up and is the reason both cars get such good economy. The R turbo and engine set up is slightly less fuel efficient but still not bad considering the power output.
I’d expect the Polo, being in a slightly ‘turned down a notch’ state of tune, would be 5% plus better on fuel in general use but the Golf doesn’t fare too badly in comparison. The Golf GTI is the perfect middle ground car in the performance range.
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Ceefeesh, your greeting was spot on. No need to apologise at all!
Thanks to all who have given replies. Excellent information all round.
I will post more laters!
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MPG is dependent on 4 main factors, with respect to a particular car:-
1. Driving style. You can have a heavy right foot and still drive economically if you read the road ahead well to preserve momentum and come off the throttle early rather than accelerating towards a situation that'll require you to brake.
2. Congestion. If you are in stop-start situations with a low average speed, your mpg will suffer. You'll see the difference between a normal working week and a week with the school holidays and lots of parents off work. Right now, with loads of people working from home or furloughed, the roads are much quieter and most still driving will have seen a mpg increase as a result.
3. Length of journey. A longer journey will give you better mpg. The car's economy is poor when cold and much better when hot. The longer the journey, the less that cold part of the journey has an influence on the overall trip. If you're doing a longer journey, it's more likely to be predominantly at a decent cruising speed with less gear changes.
4. Average speed for trip. Linked to congestion, if you are on mainly 50/60mph roads, you're going to be in the sweet spot for fuel economy. If you're crawling through 20mph roads littered with speed bumps, not so much.
When I had my 2013 GTD, I had an 8 mile commute through a split of urban crawl and dual carriageway 70mph roads. I did about 42mpg average on that commute.
In my Golf R on the same commute, it was about 32mpg.
Changing jobs, I had a 20 mile commute. I got 36mpg in the Golf R, but on occasion I took the wife's A1 1.6TDI and hammered it, getting 65mpg for the journey (the wife was lucky to see 40mpg on her 8 mile commute).
Fast forward to my Polo GTI+. A 13 mile commute with 3 miles of it within congestion prone areas. On a good day it was 37mpg, on a bad day it was 28mpg.
Still in the GTI+, but with a 32 mile drive at 70mph down the A19 on my current commute, I get about 44mpg.
In summary:
Unless you drive like a nun, you're unlikely to see 40mpg in a Golf GTI unless your journey length exceeds 25 miles on relatively uncongested roads.
Unless you drive like a nutter, you are unlikely to see less than 25mpg unless your journey length is under 5 miles or your journey is incredibly congested.
Buying a hot hatch and driving it in Eco all the time makes no sense to me. Relative to the journey you're doing, your mpg is unlikely to change appreciably between Eco and Sport - the free wheeling gains in Eco are very small, the other energy saving things like turning off cornering lights etc save very little, but you'll have a very much dulled throttle. Your car will lose thousands in depreciation every year. Driving like a nun to positive effect your fuel bill by maybe £150 a year is crazy. If you're looking to do that, you might as well've bought a well specced 1.0TSI variant.
I think it was Clarkson who said that brakes only exist for people who can't read the road ahead. My old commute used to contain a series of 6 roundabouts through a housing estate and every time the driver in front would brake at every roundabout, even when it was clear. Used to mildly amuse me when I could take the complete set without braking once, just coming off the throttle at the right times to control my speed.
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If you wanted to keep the keyless but block the signal when you don't need it you can buy key pouches or boxes that are lined to block the signal. A family member of mine has the new Subaru and they keep their keys in the pouches when in the house. It works really well and you can hold it right next to the door and the car won't unlock. I don't think there is a way to disable it on Subaru's as far as I know
Hope this helps.
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If you wanted to keep the keyless but block the signal when you don't need it you can buy key pouches or boxes that are lined to block the signal.
I use one of these, as well as disabling the keyless. https://amzn.to/36XCYSF
Better to be safe than sorry IMO. :)
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If you wanted to keep the keyless but block the signal when you don't need it you can buy key pouches or boxes that are lined to block the signal.
I use one of these, as well as disabling the keyless. https://amzn.to/36XCYSF
Better to be safe than sorry IMO. :)
If you use a Faraday pouch, be aware the pouch lining that blocks the signal can fail over time. Therefore, test the pouch periodically to ensure it’s still effective by standing next to your car with the key in the pouch and try to open your locked car. If it unlocks, its time to replace the pouch.
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If you use a Faraday pouch, be aware the pouch lining that blocks the signal can fail over time. Therefore, test the pouch periodically to ensure it’s still effective by standing next to your car with the key in the pouch and try to open your locked car. If it unlocks, its time to replace the pouch.
Good tip, thanks!. I assume that's probably from sliding the keys in and out of the pouch (control your dirty minds). If that is the case maybe one of the signal blocking boxes might be better and last longer
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I've used the same pouch for over three years and it still works perfectly.
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Be careful to keep checking the faraday pouches if you go down that route. Generally with daily use they fracture (the shielding material breaks where it folds over) and stop working. I bought two through Amazon and after 2 months the pouch I used daily failed and I could open the car with the key in it. It’s a common issue due to the design with plenty of warnings in Amazon reviews and through google if you look. I bought one of the small faraday boxes (just big enough to take the vw key) to replace the pouch (a fair bit more expensive at £45 for one), but three months later and it still works perfectly so worth the expense.
The second faraday pouch which I put my spare key in (which doesn’t get used) still works perfectly, so it is just through use you may (like I did) find they fail.
I absolutely love the convenience of keyless, so it’s a small price to ensure the key shouldn’t be able to be scanned.
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Doesn't the need to use a Faraday box or pouch negate the convenience of keyless?
If you need to get the key.out of the box or pouch to use it, how is that any more convenient than having a normal central locking key in your pocket and pressing a button on it to unlock?
I have keyless and it's occasionally flaky, like locking the car when its already locked rather than unlocking it - maybe 1 in 15 uses.
The convenience factor seems massively overplayed to me, unless you have the key with you but don't know exactly where it is (I'm thinking women with Mary Poppins bottomless carpet bags!).
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Absolutely. Total nonsense tech for the sake of it.
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Anyone got keyless entry on their front door at home? :whistle:
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Anyone got keyless entry on their front door at home? :whistle:
Yes! Brilliant, except when it went wtong, that was a bit of a pickle...
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Anyone got keyless entry on their front door at home? :whistle:
Yes, but I don't have to wrap the door handle in tin foil when I'm not at home. It's a yale and when we got our new composite front door about 12 years ago, it was new tech they were pushing hard and was only £79 more than a standard lock. The installer called it the "resident evil lock because when it talks "disengaged", "securely locked" etc. sounds like the "Red Queen" in the Resident evil film. You have to blip a fob to get in or enter a number on a keypad. First time I went out for a proper drinking session and elected to key my number in when I got home - 10 digit code entry when pissed is challenging!
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best way to sell cars- list a whole load of options ranging from "occasionaly useful but could easily manage without" to "complete gimmick"
keyless, voice control, heat the mirrors, heat your ar$e.
And if you keep a car longer than the 2 years most people seem to, it all costs you to fix in the end.
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Anyone got keyless entry on their front door at home? :whistle:
Yes, but I don't have to wrap the door handle in tin foil when I'm not at home. It's a yale and when we got our new composite front door about 12 years ago, it was new tech they were pushing hard and was only £79 more than a standard lock. The installer called it the "resident evil lock because when it talks "disengaged", "securely locked" etc. sounds like the "Red Queen" in the Resident evil film. You have to blip a fob to get in or enter a number on a keypad. First time I went out for a proper drinking session and elected to key my number in when I got home - 10 digit code entry when pissed is challenging!
Have you had any bother with yours? I had to replace the motherboard on mine and they don't make them any more. I found a weak point in the way two parts were fitted together which mean't you couldn't fully lock the door when they seperated.
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Anyone got keyless entry on their front door at home? :whistle:
Yes, but I don't have to wrap the door handle in tin foil when I'm not at home. It's a yale and when we got our new composite front door about 12 years ago, it was new tech they were pushing hard and was only £79 more than a standard lock. The installer called it the "resident evil lock because when it talks "disengaged", "securely locked" etc. sounds like the "Red Queen" in the Resident evil film. You have to blip a fob to get in or enter a number on a keypad. First time I went out for a proper drinking session and elected to key my number in when I got home - 10 digit code entry when pissed is challenging!
Have you had any bother with yours? I had to replace the motherboard on mine and they don't make them any more. I found a weak point in the way two parts were fitted together which mean't you couldn't fully lock the door when they seperated.
Nope, ours has been faultless for 12 years. The exterior handle clutches in for about 10s after unlocking, then declutches.
The only issue I had was with the other door furniture - the latter box and knocker used to start to show signs of copper corrosion through the chrome finish every 6 months (North Sea air blasting off it?) ' I had about 8 new letterboxes under the 10 year warranty before the last replacement has been corrosion free for 6 years.
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Doesn't the need to use a Faraday box or pouch negate the convenience of keyless?
I don’t think so. I only use the faraday box when the car is parked up for several hours with the key nearby. (Eg parked on my drive overnight). That’s where it could be targeted by thieves / scanners as it’s obvious the key will be near the car. Otherwise I use it as normal which makes the keyless element very convenient for me.
I had keyless with my last personal car (Lexus RX450h), then “normal key” with a company car I had for 2 years. I never saw the need for keyless until I had it with the Lexus - now I wouldn’t be without.
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Ami I the only person on here that finds it really useful and would hate to lose the function if going for another car without it?
I don't have a Mary Poppins bag either :laugh: but do find my hands full in the morning with my uniform, id, phone etc and the same when leaving work with my keys buried under my wallet and general other rubbish.
I know its hardly a hardship pressing the fob or turning the key in the ignition but for me its just progression which a car is full of.
It will be face recognition before we know it :rolleyes:
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It will be face recognition before we know it :rolleyes:
I hope not or anyone with this avatar - :nerd: - will be able to take my car :laugh:
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It will be face recognition before we know it :rolleyes:
Given that facial recognition is more recently plagued with issues around those people with less white skin tones, i'd doubt it.
On the other hand, we already have an issue around voice recognition and regional accents. That tech is already in your car and hated in the far flung corners of the UK.
The interesting thing about both of those technologies is that they have more problems with females than males.
In case anyone is actually interested, here's the results of an accuracy test of three different facial recognition software systems:
Microsoft was perfect at identifying white males in the PPB dataset but scored 1.7 per cent for white females. Figures worsened for darker skin: for black males the error rate hit six per cent and for black women it was 20.8 per cent.
In second place was Face ++ which was also much better at classifying males compared to females regardless of skin colour. The error rate for white males was 0.8 per cent and 0.7 per cent for black males, but for white women it was six per cent and 34.5 per cent for black women.
IBM struggled the most with darker skin tones. The results report error rates of 0.3 per cent for white males, 7.1 per cent for white females, 12 per cent for black males and 34.7 per for black females.
That's pretty terrible.
For current reasons, I cannot see any car maker wanting the negative press that goes with that.