GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: Toeman on 07 May 2020, 16:59
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Have a dec 2018 gti performance has done 11000 miles when it was bought dealer had it on long life service interval of 20000 miles it s now coming up oil service required is that normal and can it wait until garage reopen from this lockdown. I have local mechanic but don’t want to void warranty thanks for ur help
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Service intervals on VW’s long life’s/ flexible service regime are up to a maximum of 2 years or 18,000 miles, whichever is the sooner; not everyone on flexible / long life servicing will be able to drive for 2 years or 18,000 before their car needs servicing. Various sensors monitor oil quality, and the quality of the oil will be influenced by such things as the number of cold starts, journey types etc. If you’ve been driving mainly short journeys where the engine oil doesn’t always get up to optimum temperature, and you have lots of cold starts, then the car will need servicing sooner than one which is driven mainly on long journeys with the oil up to the optimum temp for most of the driving duration.
As for the warranty implications of not being able to get your car serviced because of lockdown - this is from the Covid-19 FAQ’s on VW’s website;
If your service is carried out late due to disruption caused by COVID-19, the servicing delay will not invalidate your vehicle’s warranty. What’s most important is to get the service done as soon as you can, so please contact your local retailer to discuss availability and options, eg collection and delivery, and any specific concerns you may have.
Link to VW’s Covid-19 FAQ’s below;
https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/covid-19
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Thanks a lot all my questions answered in within a few minutes great service from the forum members
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18000 miles till first service is just wrong , the life of the engine and other componants must be shortened considerably
im no vw mechanic but im pretty sure there is no sensor that tests for oil quality and condition the ecu uses time and mileage to decide when a service is due
if my new car had 11000 miles on it it would have had at very least an oil change 5000 miles ago
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18000 miles till first service is just wrong , the life of the engine and other componants must be shortened considerably
im no vw mechanic but im pretty sure there is no sensor that tests for oil quality and condition the ecu uses time and mileage to decide when a service is due
if my new car had 11000 miles on it it would have had at very least an oil change 5000 miles ago
From VW’s website;
This Flexible regime has been made possible due to the development of new Volkswagen engines with the latest technically advanced longlife oil. These engines use built-in sensors that continually monitor the oil quality, making it possible to enjoy reliable and confident motoring for up to a maximum of 18,000* miles or 24 months (whichever occurs first).
https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/owners/servicing/service-plans/regimes
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My 2003 Audi A4 was on long life servicing, had it 12 years and just under 100k miles with no engine issues. Sold it to a friend at work who has had it since and still no issues.
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18000 miles till first service is just wrong , the life of the engine and other componants must be shortened considerably
im no vw mechanic but im pretty sure there is no sensor that tests for oil quality and condition the ecu uses time and mileage to decide when a service is due
if my new car had 11000 miles on it it would have had at very least an oil change 5000 miles ago
From VW’s website;
do you believe all the marketing sh!te ?
This Flexible regime has been made possible due to the development of new Volkswagen engines with the latest technically advanced longlife oil. These engines use built-in sensors that continually monitor the oil quality, making it possible to enjoy reliable and confident motoring for up to a maximum of 18,000* miles or 24 months (whichever occurs first).
https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/owners/servicing/service-plans/regimes
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It's definitely not just time and distance. I'm a mile muncher and it's definitely not bang on 18k. It uses data from sensors just as described above.
The only advantage of sending it to the dealer more often than two years if you have a garage queen is that they inspect the vehicle visually, check the error log and carry out any recalls too.
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18000 miles till first service is just wrong , the life of the engine and other componants must be shortened considerably
im no vw mechanic but im pretty sure there is no sensor that tests for oil quality and condition the ecu uses time and mileage to decide when a service is due
if my new car had 11000 miles on it it would have had at very least an oil change 5000 miles ago
From VW’s website;
do you believe all the marketing sh!te ?
This Flexible regime has been made possible due to the development of new Volkswagen engines with the latest technically advanced longlife oil. These engines use built-in sensors that continually monitor the oil quality, making it possible to enjoy reliable and confident motoring for up to a maximum of 18,000* miles or 24 months (whichever occurs first).
https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/owners/servicing/service-plans/regimes
The only sensor I'd imagine could be in there to directly monitor oil quality would be a conductivity sensor monitoring the conductivity of the oil (more metal in the oil increases conductivity, presumably - I don't know for sure whether clean oil is a good electrical insulator).
More likely there's a set of algorithms that decide when to call time on your oil due to how long/fast/hard.you've been driving your car between services e.g. lots of cold start short journeys are going to shorten the interval vs Mr Motorway Mile Muncher doing 30+ miles per journey.
Modern fully synthetic oils are fine going to 20k miles as long as your filter is effective in removing particulates attributed to engine wear, their stability under operating conditions over extended intervals is fine.
My only issue with high mileage service intervals is for TDI engines with plenty of interrupted active regens - induced regens through injecting fuel into the exhaust system to raise DPF temps. If you interrupt tgat cycle by ending your journey, that fuel ends up in the sump, diluting your oil. Hopefully the car would have algorithms to know that is happening or knows through reduced oil pump work that viscosity of fuel is reduced.
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None of our cars oil gets past 5k before I have a meltdown and need to change it and if a buy a car that’s been on long life oil that’s the first thing I change after dropping the sump to clean oil pick up and oil feed for turbo
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IMO
- Car registered (and started being used) 1st week of Jan 2019.
- Owned from new (with service pack)
- Current miles - 11,750 (90% of those either motorway and/or longish journeys)
Showing Oil service due in - 6000 miles or 186 days
Showing inspection service due in- 8400 miles or 225 days
Am I going to book it in before it says it needs doing, no. Do I think I know better than a global company who makes engines and tests tolerances to within scales no back-street/specialist could ever achieve, no.
It's 2020, not 1980, the need for an oil service every 5000 miles on a mainstream car is a thing of the past. Some of the attitudes towards oil servicing are laughable. :)
#ItsJustAGolf
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Fair point - but if you have the 'service pack' (either paid for or free) then you would have been required to get the car serviced annually.
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None of our cars oil gets past 5k before I have a meltdown and need to change it and if a buy a car that’s been on long life oil that’s the first thing I change after dropping the sump to clean oil pick up and oil feed for turbo
That's your OCD, definitely not normal behaviour I'd advocate replicating.
Oil intended for long life use is always fully synthetic for purity and long-term heat stability and intended to last the whole long interval. Couple that with modern lubricity increases, consistent viscosity throughout the operational range so even on a cold start the oil is pumping normally, tighter machined tolerances for the moving parts means less wear and less particulate matter getting in the oil for the filter to capture.
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Fair point - but if you have the 'service pack' (either paid for or free) then you would have been required to get the car serviced annually.
I'd always go annual servicing while VW has these reasonably priced service packs to come with the car. Oil changes are a piece of cake and relatively cheap, it's the inspection of all the other components that I find the value in, especially while the xar is under warranty and VW are footing the bill.
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Do I think I know better than a global company who makes engines and tests tolerances to within scales no back-street/specialist could ever achieve, no.
VW mislead (or lie - dieselgate) just like many other big companies. My concern is that this long service schedule is a selling tool. Most people see services as a nuisance cost so will like longer intervals.
We have a Beetle Dune and Golf R. The R was supplied set to long term service interval, but like the Beetle will be serviced every 12 months. I would 100% avoid any car serviced every 2 years. The R is a March 2019 car and was serviced for the first time just before the lockdown.
My last company car was a Skoda Superb. I covered 40k per year in that so long term services meant every 6 months. I get long term (20k miles) in those circumstances, but not where mileage is far far lower.
Like you, this is just MHO and it’s a personal call at the end of the day.
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Fair point - but if you have the 'service pack' (either paid for or free) then you would have been required to get the car serviced annually.
Service pack/plan simply gives the first two consecutive services (1x oil service and 1x oil and inspection service) for £199 (I negotiated it free as part of my deal though). There's no time allocated to it :)
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Fair point - but if you have the 'service pack' (either paid for or free) then you would have been required to get the car serviced annually.
Service pack/plan simply gives the first two consecutive services (1x oil service and 1x oil and inspection service) for £199 (I negotiated it free as part of my deal though). There's no time allocated to it :)
You are supposed to use those services at the end of year 1 and 2, give or take tolerances in time/distance (usually a month/1000 miles, not in lockdown circumstances). If you choose not to get your car serviced as per VWs expectations then you're putting your warranty in jeopardy.
So you can chose to take your first and second service that you have whenever you want, but to do so well before or well after VW's expectations is completely illogical.
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Fair point - but if you have the 'service pack' (either paid for or free) then you would have been required to get the car serviced annually.
Service pack/plan simply gives the first two consecutive services (1x oil service and 1x oil and inspection service) for £199 (I negotiated it free as part of my deal though). There's no time allocated to it :)
You are supposed to use those services at the end of year 1 and 2, give or take tolerances in time/distance (usually a month/1000 miles, not in lockdown circumstances). If you choose not to get your car serviced as per VWs expectations then you're putting your warranty in jeopardy.
So you can chose to take your first and second service that you have whenever you want, but to do so well before or well after VW's expectations is completely illogical.
VW's "expectation" is my new car was/is serviced to a maximum of 18,000 miles or 24mths, whichever occurs first. My service plan covers the first two services on the car as part if it's service schedule, which is set to long-life due to the driving type I do. https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/owners/servicing/service-plans/regimes
The service plans cover both Fixed and Variable schedules.
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Fair point - but if you have the 'service pack' (either paid for or free) then you would have been required to get the car serviced annually.
Service pack/plan simply gives the first two consecutive services (1x oil service and 1x oil and inspection service) for £199 (I negotiated it free as part of my deal though). There's no time allocated to it :)
You are supposed to use those services at the end of year 1 and 2, give or take tolerances in time/distance (usually a month/1000 miles, not in lockdown circumstances). If you choose not to get your car serviced as per VWs expectations then you're putting your warranty in jeopardy.
So you can chose to take your first and second service that you have whenever you want, but to do so well before or well after VW's expectations is completely illogical.
You're wrong. VW's "expectation" is my car is serviced to a maximum of 18,000 miles or 24mths, whichever occurs first. My service plan covers the first two services on the car as part if it's service schedule, which is set to long-life due to the driving type I do. https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/owners/servicing/service-plans/regimes
It might be worth getting your dealer to clarify this for you. If you go through the process of buying a service plan online through VW’s website, the screens include a number of FAQ’s, one of which is ‘What’s covered in each service?’ The screenshot below is a copy of the answer where it does state that the first service is 10,000 miles / 12 months and the second at 20,000 miles / 24 months.
(https://i.postimg.cc/mrw2cBqj/32-D42-A60-3-B85-479-A-871-F-5-BA42-E228-A4-B.png) (https://postimg.cc/NyKwSqQ2)
I must say, my understanding was that if you had a VW service plan, then the car’s service regime should be on time and distance, not flexible / long life.
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Fair point - but if you have the 'service pack' (either paid for or free) then you would have been required to get the car serviced annually.
Service pack/plan simply gives the first two consecutive services (1x oil service and 1x oil and inspection service) for £199 (I negotiated it free as part of my deal though). There's no time allocated to it :)
You are supposed to use those services at the end of year 1 and 2, give or take tolerances in time/distance (usually a month/1000 miles, not in lockdown circumstances). If you choose not to get your car serviced as per VWs expectations then you're putting your warranty in jeopardy.
So you can chose to take your first and second service that you have whenever you want, but to do so well before or well after VW's expectations is completely illogical.
You're wrong. VW's "expectation" is my car is serviced to a maximum of 18,000 miles or 24mths, whichever occurs first. My service plan covers the first two services on the car as part if it's service schedule, which is set to long-life due to the driving type I do. https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/owners/servicing/service-plans/regimes
It might be worth getting your dealer to clarify this for you. If you go through the process of buying a service plan online through VW’s website, the screens include a number of FAQ’s, one of which is ‘What’s covered in each service?’ The screenshot below is a copy of the answer where it does state that the first service is 10,000 miles / 12 months and the second at 20,000 miles / 24 months.
(https://i.postimg.cc/mrw2cBqj/32-D42-A60-3-B85-479-A-871-F-5-BA42-E228-A4-B.png) (https://postimg.cc/NyKwSqQ2)
I must say, my understanding was that if you had a VW service plan, then the car’s service regime should be on time and distance, not flexible / long life.
I was told that on used cars it had to be on fixed, but new cars it could be either.
If it only applies to fixed servicing then it's the dealers mess-up because when supplying a service plan it had/has to be switched (by the dealer) to the appropriate scheduling. The car by default comes as variable servicing, so at the very least I expect the first service to be covered.
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K M Powell:
Are you sure long life service regime is covered? According to this below (taken from Lookers website), you must be on fixed service interval as part of tge terms and conditions. You'll get a minor service at 10k miles (oil and filter) and a major (oil/filter/inspection) at 20k miles.
When you go variable, your oil/filter and inspection get split up. If you were able to use the service packs on long life regime, you'd miss out on an oil change because you'd get service 1 at 14k - 18k miles and your inspection service is due at 20k miles which presumably you'd be taking up only a bit of your service 2, the oil and filer component of service 2 would be going to waste.
If your car is on variable servicing, book a service before your car is 1 year okd/less than 10k miles and ask them to change your regime while they're doing it. Mine was left on long life at PDI but I bought the service pack. They did first service and changed to fixed.
Volkswagen Service Plans
Spreading the cost of your service is easy with a Volkswagen Service Plan.
We offer a range of Service and Maintenance plans available so we can take care of your Volkswagen at an affordable and predictable price. The next 2 scheduled services that your car will need are provided with Volkswagen Service Plans, with options available for cars under one year old, cars over one year old and electric vehicles.
Terms and Conditions
Cars under 1 year
†e-up! and e-Golf excluded.
Terms and conditions apply: All cars must be set to the fixed service regime by the Retailer. Maximum age of car is 12 months (must be taken out before first service is due). Additional work, including wear and tear is excluded. Servicing must be carried out in line with the requirement of the service schedule. All work must be carried out at a Volkswagen Authorised Repairer.
Offers may be varied or withdrawn at any time. Plan validity is dependent on required payments received.
Administered by Volkswagen Financial Services, Freepost Volkswagen Financial Services
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IMO
- Car registered (and started being used) 1st week of Jan 2019.
- Owned from new (with service pack)
- Current miles - 11,750 (90% of those either motorway and/or longish journeys)
Showing Oil service due in - 6000 miles or 186 days
Showing inspection service due in- 8400 miles or 225 days
Am I going to book it in before it says it needs doing, no. Do I think I know better than a global company who makes engines and tests tolerances to within scales no back-street/specialist could ever achieve, no.
It's 2020, not 1980, the need for an oil service every 5000 miles on a mainstream car is a thing of the past. Some of the attitudes towards oil servicing are laughable. :)
#ItsJustAGolf
your right its not 1980 but these engines and componants were nt designed in the 80 s either
the long service intervals sells cars , non car people dont want to be having regular services
the difference between a back street garage and main dealers is the guy who owns the back street garage probably done his apprentiship at the main dealer but moved on , he cars about your car and your returning custom , the main dealer use mainly un qualified “kids” to do service work
and they dont really want your car to last , if it makes it out of warrenty without costing them money , they are happy if it goes bang .
your car your choice but you did ask for other opinions
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and there is no sensor in the engine that measures oil quality , only what the oil has done
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So general consensus is get it serviced as soon as I can after garage reopens
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So general consensus is get it serviced as soon as I can after garage reopens
Yep. The wife's Polo GTI+ is due first service in 4 days time, but will wait until Pulman group reopen.
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None of our cars oil gets past 5k before I have a meltdown and need to change it and if a buy a car that’s been on long life oil that’s the first thing I change after dropping the sump to clean oil pick up and oil feed for turbo
That's your OCD, definitely not normal behaviour I'd advocate replicating.
Oil intended for long life use is always fully synthetic for purity and long-term heat stability and intended to last the whole long interval. Couple that with modern lubricity increases, consistent viscosity throughout the operational range so even on a cold start the oil is pumping normally, tighter machined tolerances for the moving parts means less wear and less particulate matter getting in the oil for the filter to capture.
Its not ocd as an ex mechanic I see it as cheaper to do an oil and filter than a rebuild
Look at oil after 5-6k then look at oil that’s done 18-20k
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^ Change every 1000 miles and it'll be cleaner still. Oil discolours over time, even high grade fully synthetic stuff, doesn't mean it's any less effective in lubrication and guiding particulate matter to be captured in the oil filter. Every 5k miles to change oil is OCD on a modern car using fully synthetic oils that resist acidic sludging. I'd be more worried about carbon build-up on the back of the intake valves on a purely DI engine.
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I can remember fifth gear doing this section with a fellow r32 owners car he got slated for ages for allowing the oil to get this bad
https://youtu.be/M7VxOlUVjoA
I’ve split enough engines in my time to know I won’t go wrong doing mine every 5-6k and sooner on something like our last s3
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I can remember fifth gear doing this section with a fellow r32 owners car he got slated for ages for allowing the oil to get this bad
https://youtu.be/M7VxOlUVjoA
I’ve split enough engines in my time to know I won’t go wrong doing mine every 5-6k and sooner on something like our last s3
I wonder how old that video actually is to be showing a MK4 R32?
That MK4 R32 will be between 15 and 18 years old now, and even if that video was showing the effects on a (then) 5 year old car, you're talking about an old tech car that isn't built to todays tighter tolerances and oil advancements have come on leaps and bounds since 2005. Don't forget that fuel is a hell of a lot cleaner these days too, with detergent additives that weren't about in 2005.
Nice to see the AAS in use (Atomic absorption flame spectroscopy) - I used to work on one of those daily. Some of the science as explained was a bit iffy. Telling you about changes in viscosity without defining the specification to meet.
The oil that comes out of a newish car after its second or third oil change will be nowhere near as dirty as the stuff in that video. If I had a 15-20 year old hot hatch I would absolutely change the oil every 5k miles.
Modern cars are not subject to old tech servicing requirements due to advances in fuel oil and engine manufacturing. It's not a big loss to do an oil and filter change twice as often as the manufacturer recommends, but it seems wholly unnecessary on a modern car using clean fuels and advanced oils.
If there was a big benefit in doing extra oil changes, the first would be most critical, with any extra wear debis attributed to the running in process.
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it's an interesting discussion. IMHO-
There is a difference between "acceptable" and "optimal" maintenance, and though the engineering may have improved, the principles are very much the same- oil goes bad over time and becomes less effective.
I doubt there will be anyone intending to keep their car long term ( say more than 5 or 6 years) who will have opted for long life servicing.
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it's an interesting discussion. IMHO-
There is a difference between "acceptable" and "optimal" maintenance, and though the engineering may have improved, the principles are very much the same- oil goes bad over time and becomes less effective.
I doubt there will be anyone intending to keep their car long term ( say more than 5 or 6 years) who will have opted for long life servicing.
Everything has improved, hence the increased interval. Better oil, purer fuel, tighter manufacturing tolerances, but we do need to remember that long life intervals are meant for people doing longer journeys that have less wear per mile driven.
There's definitely a throwaway attitude these days for cars, many people who get them new really don't give a toss about longevity, as long as the cars work for 3 years.
I'm looking to.keep our 2018 and 2019.Polo GTI+ for a long while, but for me, changing the oil more than once a year or 10k miles is overkill with respect to the modern advances previously mentioned.
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Wonder how K M Powell got on talking with the dealer about this - he should have already had his first service carried out earlier this year. Hopefully they will fess up to their mistake and honour the plan.
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How many of you that carry out very regular oil changes will still have your car after 3 years and see any potential benefit?
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How many of you that carry out very regular oil changes will still have your car after 3 years and see any potential benefit?
You will never know one way or they other, but that's no argument not to maintain it well.
In this respect, car maintenance is rather like "detailing"/washing. We all have our views on what is necessary!
Some of the car detailing you see talked about is madness.
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Latest dealership piss-take is service upgrades. Someone on the Polo forum about to get their first service via the prepaid service plan has been offered an oil "upgrade" to Castrol Edge Professional 0W-20 oil for £29.99. :shocked:
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Latest dealership piss-take is service upgrades. Someone on the Polo forum about to get their first service via the prepaid service plan has been offered an oil "upgrade" to Castrol Edge Professional 0W-20 oil for £29.99. :shocked:
They need to claw back some of the billions lost through all this :sick:
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Wonder how K M Powell got on talking with the dealer about this - he should have already had his first service carried out earlier this year. Hopefully they will fess up to their mistake and honour the plan.
The car isn't due it's first service for another 6000-7000 miles, so I won't know until then. :)
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I think the most important thing would be to check the oil level and make sure it is topped up until you can get it to a dealer for the service.
I have been on long life service intervals before and I noticed that I always needed to top up the oil a couple months before it was due. When I used to service cars annually or every 10k I never had any additional oil use.
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The car isn't due it's first service for another 6000-7000 miles, so I won't know until then. :)
The point of all the comments that have been made is that it should be serviced on its first birthday if on a service plan unless the dealer has 100% confirmed that he will honour the service plan outside the VW t's & c's (ie: on variable service regime).
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The car isn't due it's first service for another 6000-7000 miles, so I won't know until then. :)
The point of all the comments that have been made is that it should be serviced on its first birthday if on a service plan unless the dealer has 100% confirmed that he will honour the service plan outside the VW t's & c's (ie: on variable service regime).
Exactly. If you want your service regime to change to fixed interval (1 year/10000 miles) as per the service plan terms, you need to bring it in at 1 year/10000 miles (+/- 1 month and 1000 miles). If you've gone over 13 months/11k miles before the start of the lockdown (and VWs allowed leeway due to the lockdown), you may not be eligible for the service pack you have.
However, they should do the decent thing if that happens and at least give you 1 major service when your variable interval oil change is due. Whether they'll get paid by VW for not quite following the rules will probably determine whether they will. No-one works for nowt, not even VW dealers.
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The car isn't due it's first service for another 6000-7000 miles, so I won't know until then. :)
The point of all the comments that have been made is that it should be serviced on its first birthday if on a service plan unless the dealer has 100% confirmed that he will honour the service plan outside the VW t's & c's (ie: on variable service regime).
Exactly. If you want your service regime to change to fixed interval (1 year/10000 miles) as per the service plan terms, you need to bring it in at 1 year/10000 miles (+/- 1 month and 1000 miles). If you've gone over 13 months/11k miles before the start of the lockdown (and VWs allowed leeway due to the lockdown), you may not be eligible for the service pack you have.
However, they should do the decent thing if that happens and at least give you 1 major service when your variable interval oil change is due. Whether they'll get paid by VW for not quite following the rules will probably determine whether they will. No-one works for nowt, not even VW dealers.
I don’t want my service regime changed to fixed. It was set to variable due my annual mileage and drive types. The car is setup correctly. I had the £199 service pack added at new (even though I didn’t pay for it) which I was told would cover my first two services, some here say it won’t... but I’ll find out when it goes in for service. If they say it won’t then I’ll politely point out they miss-sold a service pack that wasn’t applicable for my car and I’d they don’t give me my first service FOC then I’ll be off to VWUK to raise a complaint. Until then I’ll just carry on enjoying and using the car. :)
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I had the service pack and I'm definitely on the long life regime. No problems at all.
I can't see why anyone would doubt that it would be a problem. It's the first two services, whenever those are.
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I can't see why anyone would doubt that it would be a problem. It's the first two services, whenever those are.
Fred - it could be problem as the VW terms and conditions state that vehicles on a service plan are required to be set to time and distance servicing, ie, they are selling you a service per year/mileage, not on a variable basis. Why they do it that way - not sure - perhaps just to limit the length of time they are obligated to the customer under the plans.
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I can't see why anyone would doubt that it would be a problem. It's the first two services, whenever those are.
Fred - it could be problem as the VW terms and conditions state that vehicles on a service plan are required to be set to time and distance servicing, ie, they are selling you a service per year/mileage, not on a variable basis. Why they do it that way - not sure - perhaps just to limit the length of time they are obligated to the customer under the plans.
And the price VW charge for their 2 year service plans is based on 1 minor (oil change) and 1 major (oil change plus inspection) services at yearly / 10,000 mile intervals.
My car is set for time and distance servicing so I apologise in advance for not knowing what work is involved at each service under the flexible service regime. However, I’m assuming under the long life / flexible service regime, because of the length of time distance a car can go between services, the services don’t alternate between a minor and major service and that each service is probably the equivalent of a major service? If so, then if VW offered a two service plan for cars on long life servicing, it would probably be priced at a higher cost than the current two service plan consisting of one minor and one major service for cars on time and distance service regime.