GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: fredgroves on 05 March 2020, 13:33
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I found a really good fleet website which provides data on all currently available models to help fleet managers work out what to select.
You can compare up to 5 vehicles and it gives you all sorts of numbers around total cost of ownership.
Here are my 5 contenders for my next car: I30N, Civic Type R GT, Golf TCR, Audi S3 and BMW M135i. (I have picked specific variants).
Have a look at this.... I think you might be very surprised at the rankings when you look at the total cost per mile:
https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/costs/car-running-costs/compare-list/19042660,19070872,19145584,19074802,19064467 (https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/costs/car-running-costs/compare-list/19042660,19070872,19145584,19074802,19064467)
(if you are looking at this in the future, that link might not work if any of those models are no longer available from new)
Obviously the length of ownership and mileage per year are mine (3 years, 20,000 miles).
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TCR residuals look good then :cry:
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TCR residuals look good then :cry:
No, they are terrible - which I talked about before.
The most interesting thing I think here is that the I30N actually holds up pretty well.... but you need to factor in stuff beyond the numbers, like "could I actually cope with living in one of these for 3 years and 60,000 miles".... after a test drive i might feel like its being a frog in a liquidiser.
60,000 miles at an average speed of 38mph (a rough long term average from my Golf) is just over 65 days (24hrs - double that if you think 12 hour days). That's a long time to be shut in a crap place.
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i30N is actually really nice to drive but it's the fuel economy that will kill you not the ride which is very nice.
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Autocar used to do a “ cheap fast cars” supplement in the 90s- the best second hand bargains.
If they still did that, the TCR would be first on the list in a couple of years.
It’s running costs are actually pretty good- it’s the high purchase price that stuffs it
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Of the cars on the list fredgroves put up the only one I’d have bought new would have been the M135i and I do have some small regrets that I didn’t purchase one myself.
The good residuals are *predicted* as it’s a fresh model so fairly future-proof assuming it gets accepted by the market. And I do think it will.
However you can never write off a special edition Golf GTI but the mileage and condition are paramount for cars of that ilk unless they get some sort of cult status. The TCR is very unlikely to gain that but it’s very popular with enthusiasts. .
I bought mine to be used daily unlike my Clubsport which was bought for occasional use.
My Ed40 fetched strong money and they’re in good demand but I fear the TCR will bomb a bit like my R did.
I took my son to hospital the other day for a minor operation on his foot. The earliest appointment was in a tiny cottage hospital on the edge of Dartmoor so he accepted that. I elected to drive him there leisurely via the country roads rather than the dual carriageway. One thing my son picked up on which I’d never really noticed was the fact the TCR got massive respect from white van drivers and construction workers! One lad wearing a hard hat actually walked out into the road off his site after I’d breezed by to watch the car from behind for the next quarter of a mile until I rounded the next bend. I was only ambling slowly too.
The reason I mention that is because those types of guys will be the next owners of our type of cars a few years down the line. If there’s a good bit of interest and respect from lads who will be in the market for two, three, four or more year old hot hatches then the values stay strong on them. I’d expect the TCR to be on parity with a well specced R in used values.
Anyway, from that list, buying new it’d be the M135i for me all day long.
Buying used (Ex-Demo or pre-reg’d) it’d be a toss up between the TCR and 135i.
Fair play to the i30N for its price and overall projected costs, possibly a good leasing option then if deals spring up? Could be a bit hardcore for 20k a year where you know the GTI and 135i will just swallow the miles.
S3? Meh.
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I'd have loved to have put a Mk7.5 GTI PP into that mix (or better still a Mk8 GTI) but I can't because neither is current production.
The TCR is no more expensive to run than a GTI PP (well maybe a little fuel, but not much) its just the rubbish depreciation on it - driven by it being heavily loaded with kit vs a PP.
The two surprises here are
1) the I30N being cheapest - despite the terrible fuel economy and it being virtually worthless after 60k.
2) The super expensive BMW is cheap to service and not terrible on fuel vs the rest and with a stonking residual value - which BTW BMW finance are predicting as well in their PCP quotes - its not necessarily the actual number, but they are offering it.
Nobody is surprised that the Audi is the most expensive!
I think what this whole thing suggests is that VW have a fight on their hands - they clearly were the winners with the Mk7 throughout its life, but they need to get the UK spec for the Mk8 GTI right and need to get the resulting price right. Rolling out with a 37k basic list, the BMW is going to trash them. It's no longer ugly, its no longer small, its no longer a generation behind.
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Of the cars on the list fredgroves put up the only one I’d have bought new would have been the M135i and I do have some small regrets that I didn’t purchase one myself.
The good residuals are *predicted* as it’s a fresh model so fairly future-proof assuming it gets accepted by the market. And I do think it will.
However you can never write off a special edition Golf GTI but the mileage and condition are paramount for cars of that ilk unless they get some sort of cult status. The TCR is very unlikely to gain that but it’s very popular with enthusiasts. .
I bought mine to be used daily unlike my Clubsport which was bought for occasional use.
My Ed40 fetched strong money and they’re in good demand but I fear the TCR will bomb a bit like my R did.
I took my son to hospital the other day for a minor operation on his foot. The earliest appointment was in a tiny cottage hospital on the edge of Dartmoor so he accepted that. I elected to drive him there leisurely via the country roads rather than the dual carriageway. One thing my son picked up on which I’d never really noticed was the fact the TCR got massive respect from white van drivers and construction workers! One lad wearing a hard hat actually walked out into the road off his site after I’d breezed by to watch the car from behind for the next quarter of a mile until I rounded the next bend. I was only ambling slowly too.
The reason I mention that is because those types of guys will be the next owners of our type of cars a few years down the line. If there’s a good bit of interest and respect from lads who will be in the market for two, three, four or more year old hot hatches then the values stay strong on them. I’d expect the TCR to be on parity with a well specced R in used values.
Anyway, from that list, buying new it’d be the M135i for me all day long.
Buying used (Ex-Demo or pre-reg’d) it’d be a toss up between the TCR and 135i.
Fair play to the i30N for its price and overall projected costs, possibly a good leasing option then if deals spring up? Could be a bit hardcore for 20k a year where you know the GTI and 135i will just swallow the miles.
S3? Meh.
My brother is a big car enthusiast. He has had a lancia delta integrale for over 10 years. He says almost every time he drives it he gets a thumbs up from tradesmen- white van man. When I bought my pug he told me that’s where the attention would come from- sure enough that’s what I’ve found.
Interesting your TCR gets that reaction- I haven’t had anyone acknowledge my golf! White van knows his nurburgring lap times. Either that or he doesn’t like Parkers :grin: :grin:
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My brother is a big car enthusiast. He has had a lancia delta integrale for over 10 years. He says almost every time he drives it he gets a thumbs up from tradesmen- white van man. When I bought my pug he told me that’s where the attention would come from- sure enough that’s what I’ve found.
Interesting your TCR gets that reaction- I haven’t had anyone acknowledge my golf! White van knows his nurburgring lap times. Either that or he doesn’t like Parkers :grin: :grin:
What an awesome car your brother has!
Something fully deserving of a thumbs up and a great investment too I’d imagine.
I’ve never been in one but these were the cars lads of my generation would aspire to, those mad rally homologation specials from a golden era of the sport.
The TCR doesn’t get thumbs up signs :grin:
It does seem to bring out uncharacteristic manners in white van drivers though, or at least it did on Tuesday morning :grin: maybe they thought it was was a cop car at first?!
Back on topic (although the Integrale deserves a thread of its own :drool: ) does the Golf R show as an option on the list fredgroves? Or is the TCR the only remaining performance Golf in production? Well, I’m sure there are more GTI P’s and R’s actually in (last off the line) production than TCRs but the latter is less likely to have a buyer’s signature against it owing to the mad retail price, so maybe has some actual availability.
These TCRs will end up like the Clubsports, punted out to dealers to pre-register and will be relative bargains in a few months if there’s no clamour to buy them.
When I was last at work a few weeks ago I had a nose through ex-demo 135i’s one quiet night and they were really good value, if the retained values are going to be as strong as predicted in the trade as per the link then a 135i with a couple thousand miles on the clock would make a wise purchase right now.
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There is the R on there, it comes out about the same as the tcr. You'd definitely be daft to choose that over a m135i.
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Just found the gti pp too. 55.42ppm, which is still worse than the BMW... I suspect its all to do with a mk7 having bad residuals now it's a previous model...
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I’d imagine there is very little chance that the actual p/ex value of an M135i matches that estimated residual value. Of course, to fleet managers and anyone else leasing, this is of no consequence. To actual punters who will be PCP’ing them and hoping for some equity to roll in to a new car, it will be a bit of a disappointment.
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Equity makes no odds really. You either pay less each month or have it as a lump sum at the end. With super low deposits you don't need the lump anyway. It's all about the monthlies and nothing else.
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Its odd that this website let you choose a TCR, they stopped taking orders back at the start of January. Mcmaddy ordered one around the 5th, if I’m not mistaken, and the next day all orders stopped on Golfs.
My opinion is if you look too deep into resale value/depreciation then you’re losing sight of why you want a fun new car to begin with. Unless you’re a fleet manager for a company then this should be a lesser factor. Way more important, I think when purchasing a car, are looks inside and out, driving feel/fun, practicality and quality/reliability. All way more important than worrying about a couple thousand a few years down the line.
If you really were bothered by depreciation then you would lease or buy second hand.
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Must be nice to buy a car without any consideration of what its costing you.
Whatever you do for a job, can I come and work there too?
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I don't think that Rimp is implying the the cost is of no consequence. We all have a finite amount of money to spend. Some people perhaps will spend less on holidays, not buy expensive Hifi, eat out every week etc, which may allow them to be a little less carefree about other purchases. After all, finding the best deal takes time. Time has a value too.
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yeah I wasn't saying that cost isn't ever an issue. You should only ever spend what you can afford and never at the expense of neglecting other responsibilities. Have a budget and be sensible about it.
My assumption was that all of the cars shortlisted were within budget.
I just think if you are passionate about a car in your shortlist you shouldn't let the nerdy spreadsheet part of your brain put you off just because in 3 years time its worth a bit less than another car.
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It's over 7 grand difference from top to bottom.... its not a trifling amount. And that's before you consider interest on any loans you need to cover it. That's a lot of Jamaican ginger cake (or shoes for the wife)
What I'm really saying is that the cost of owning even a car of about the same value (say 37k) is quite different when you add it all up.
It's an important consideration, more so than lap times around the ring or whatever Clarkson is driving this week.
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It depends how you're buying your car.
If you're buying outright and anticipate a certain future value, true residuals count and may influence your buying decisions if you don't want to lose a fortune picking one car over another.
If you buy on PCP at a monthly rate you're happy with, then residuals aren't your problem, same with leasing. You hand the car back at the end, no matter what. That being said - perceived residuals influence your monthlies.
If a TCR is going to cost you £600 a month (inclusive of deposit down), in my mind, that's horrendous for a Golf - you could lease an S4/RS3 for that.
I've got a 2018 and a 2019 Polo GTI+, both bought outright and I put back into savings my perceived depreciation, based loosely on PCP GFVs and history of the previous model. I'm expecting that those "£23500" Polos bought for £20700 will be worth £13000 at 3 years old (GFV is £11500) to put away about £240 a month each to cover the depreciation and a bit of inflation for the next one.
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It depends how you're buying your car.
If you're buying outright and anticipate a certain future value, true residuals count and may influence your buying decisions if you don't want to lose a fortune picking one car over another.
If you buy on PCP at a monthly rate you're happy with, then residuals aren't your problem, same with leasing. You hand the car back at the end, no matter what. That being said - perceived residuals influence your monthlies.
If a TCR is going to cost you £600 a month (inclusive of deposit down), in my mind, that's horrendous for a Golf - you could lease an S4/RS3 for that.
I've got a 2018 and a 2019 Polo GTI+, both bought outright and I put back into savings my perceived depreciation, based loosely on PCP GFVs and history of the previous model. I'm expecting that those "£23500" Polos bought for £20700 will be worth £13000 at 3 years old (GFV is £11500) to put away about £240 a month each to cover the depreciation and a bit of inflation for the next one.
Using that system you also need to factor in the loss of use of the capital.
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^ Yep, but if you're leaving it in the bank, it's going to earn f**k-all anyway. £42k at 1.5%pa is £630 per year, or a little over £1900 per term, taking into account interest on interest - £52pm (if accounting for what's going back in every month, it's more like £40pm loss).
Add that to the £214 a month my depreciation is costing (I put in £240 a month each to cover inflation on the next one), real cost is equivalent of £254pm with no deposit down. My 2 cars have about £1000 of options each, which would be adding about £28pm on a 3 year lease and about £20pm on PCP.
Some will say you can earn more than that if you invest, but that's not without risk- how much was wiped off the FTSE with Corona virus scares related to potential impact on industrial output?
Either way, I'm saving significantly (£86pm, with loss of capital accounted for) vs PCP that runs to about £341pm over 3 years with nothing down on the same discount basis. Makes far more sense to self finance the cars than chuck it at my 0.94% mortgage. I can change the car on my terms too.
Best terms by far on VW finance calculator are over 4 years rather than 3 right now. I thought VW would be encouraging people to PCP every 3 years, not 4, in order to sell more cars. Having a VW out of warranty is a risky business, VW aren't exactly forthcoming to fix stuff within warranty unless it's a slam-dunk mechanical failure for a part they wouldn't consider remotely attributable to wear.
VW know their product is overpriced when they're already offering deposit contributions for the MK8.
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The VW 4 year term being cheaper is to get the monthly payments down because the cars are too expensive - as I said before, when mobile phones became too expensive to pay off in a 1 year contract, the contracts became 2 years.... now 3 years.
I am speculating that cars are getting very much like mobile phones - its all about the tech and whilst tech is expensive, its also something that quickly becomes obsolete and not desirable. A secondhand computer is never worth much. The residuals on a current model are no more than 8 years ago (because on a secondhand car nobody is paying money for tech, its obsolete so its just a transport device) so that depreciation gap is simply much larger.
Plus simple maths - even ignoring interest, paying back 26 grand over 3 years is a hell of a lot of money. We've got to the point whereby even PCP is basically funding the same amount of cold hard cash as you were paying back on HP 8 years ago, when cars had a total price of 26 grand. PCP came in to try to handle that problem for consumers.
I looked at one of those "nearly new" TCR's that have popped up this week for around 30k. Das Welt PCP scheme had an interest rate of 9.9% - seriously?
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Makes far more sense to self finance the cars than chuck it at my 0.94% mortgage.
Cars aside, surely it makes more sense to get rid of the mortgage as quickly as possible? The rate maybe low, but you are only getting the capital appreciation on the equity that you have. That appreciation has to be more than your 1.5% interest on your savings.
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I'm not rich, I have a reasonable wage coming in, my only financial gains are that the mortgage is near enough non-existent, we enjoy holidays that are cheap (not because they are cheap though, just what we enjoy isn't expensive) and I now have a disinterest in spending. I can't afford to throw money away on cars but when I do buy I like to get what I want (and can afford) and have never given depreciation a thought. Perhaps I should? But who knows what's around the corner? ICE cars could suddenly get banned, petrol might get rationed, the gearbox might explode and I can't get it fixed. Those predicting residuals might be talking out of the arses and be completely wrong. They are experts of course but even they can't get it right all the time. So I'm happy in my new car and will enjoy driving it. What it's worth when I come to sell it will be what it is, sod it, for now it doesn't bother me. I'm a little bit concerned as to why I've spent over £200 in petrol over the last 3 weeks, but I'll get over it :shocked: :laugh:
I do appreciate though that for others the costs of ownership is important for various reasons, I'm just giving my view on it. :smiley:
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Anyway, back to cars themselves.... I am about to head down to Hyundai to go take a look at a I30N - I've only ever seen them on the road, never sat in one.
I'll report back my feelings later.
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Makes far more sense to self finance the cars than chuck it at my 0.94% mortgage.
Cars aside, surely it makes more sense to get rid of the mortgage as quickly as possible? The rate maybe low, but you are only getting the capital appreciation on the equity that you have. That appreciation has to be more than your 1.5% interest on your savings.
You don't really see that appreciation in your house unless you downsize and pocket the difference or move somewhere cheaper (and quite possibly rougher). When all the other houses are appreciating too, you're no better off. Unless I want to move, I'd rather use that money to save £172pm on 2 cars than £35pm interest on my mortgage.
As I'm putting my depreciation back into the bank every month, I can sell those 2 cars at any time and with the depreciation koney to get my £42k liquid again.
Buying outright will comfortably beat PCP with 4%+ interest rate and usually beat the best lease terms, as long as nothing seriously unexpected happens to affect depreciation (even dieselgate didn't hurt diesel residuals that much because the £0/20 VED rates and high mpg are still desirable on the second hand market.
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I30N Perf could be had for just over 19k new at the end of the year - makes a hell of a difference to those comparisons. Half the price of a TCR makes you really need to obsess about perceived plastic quality :nerd:
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The VW 4 year term being cheaper is to get the monthly payments down because the cars are too expensive - as I said before, when mobile phones became too expensive to pay off in a 1 year contract, the contracts became 2 years.... now 3 years.
I am speculating that cars are getting very much like mobile phones - its all about the tech and whilst tech is expensive, its also something that quickly becomes obsolete and not desirable. A secondhand computer is never worth much. The residuals on a current model are no more than 8 years ago (because on a secondhand car nobody is paying money for tech, its obsolete so its just a transport device) so that depreciation gap is simply much larger.
Plus simple maths - even ignoring interest, paying back 26 grand over 3 years is a hell of a lot of money. We've got to the point whereby even PCP is basically funding the same amount of cold hard cash as you were paying back on HP 8 years ago, when cars had a total price of 26 grand. PCP came in to try to handle that problem for consumers.
I looked at one of those "nearly new" TCR's that have popped up this week for around 30k. Das Welt PCP scheme had an interest rate of 9.9% - seriously?
Yep, not many people think of cars as theirs any more. Something most people are effectively renting, and no-one keeps a car forever. There's always something incrementally better around the corner. Not sure how much further they can take tech to make you want to change - absolutely everything touchscreen controlled is a backwards step. I still use the volume knob on the head unit because I prefer a quick twist to multiple presses on the MFSW buttons to change the volume.
I think we'll be keeping those Polos long term, might get a box on mine when the warranty is up.
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I30N Perf could be had for just over 19k new at the end of the year - makes a hell of a difference to those comparisons. Half the price of a TCR makes you really need to obsess about perceived plastic quality :nerd:
And a 5 year warranty is nothing to be sniffed at. I hear fuel economy is shocking.
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I30N Perf could be had for just over 19k new at the end of the year - makes a hell of a difference to those comparisons. Half the price of a TCR makes you really need to obsess about perceived plastic quality :nerd:
you'll be lucky to find any Hyundai dealer willing to sell you one at around 19k. Coupled with crap finance rates and low value at 3 years the monthly figures just aren't worth it.
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I am seeing about 4k off of list on the I30N Performance via CarWow - assuming that I want one in precisely my spec (aka "colour") and on PCP.
So they run at about 25k.
I've read and re-read the spec, the only things you don't get and can't have are ACC and automatic transmission.
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I30N Perf could be had for just over 19k new at the end of the year - makes a hell of a difference to those comparisons. Half the price of a TCR makes you really need to obsess about perceived plastic quality :nerd:
you'll be lucky to find any Hyundai dealer willing to sell you one at around 19k. Coupled with crap finance rates and low value at 3 years the monthly figures just aren't worth it.
I did though.
Other ways of buying are available.
Using the linked fleet site, if it's worth 10k after 3 years from 19k, it rather laughs in the face of the 37k to 12k TCR drop.
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I30N Perf could be had for just over 19k new at the end of the year - makes a hell of a difference to those comparisons. Half the price of a TCR makes you really need to obsess about perceived plastic quality :nerd:
you'll be lucky to find any Hyundai dealer willing to sell you one at around 19k. Coupled with crap finance rates and low value at 3 years the monthly figures just aren't worth it.
I'd be impressed to see that £29k car (we are talking the performance i30N and not the £26k standard i30N aren't we?).
If that kind of saving can be had, even if it's only worth £10k at 3 or 4 years old, that saving has covered half the depreciation. Add that to the fact you'd only be financing on a £19k car, you'd still be quid in vs 4.9% on a £33-36k (after discount) high end Golf. You save even more if you need to finance and get a cheap bank loan instead.
I'd seriously consider a £9k loss over a £20k loss for a same sector car that looks to be as capable, but a bit cheaper on the interior.
I've no doubt the TCR will be a more satisfying car to own, it's just a pity they jacked the price right up to cover the Akropovich exhaust that almost no-one would've specced as a £3k option. Luckily 0% finance takes the sting out of that decision by VW.
Hopefully the interior of the i30N is better than the old standard. My mate had a yellow Hyundai Coupe years ago, I dubbed it the "Aldi TT", which annoyed him no end when it caught on with our other mates. :grin:
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I30N Perf could be had for just over 19k new at the end of the year - makes a hell of a difference to those comparisons. Half the price of a TCR makes you really need to obsess about perceived plastic quality :nerd:
you'll be lucky to find any Hyundai dealer willing to sell you one at around 19k. Coupled with crap finance rates and low value at 3 years the monthly figures just aren't worth it.
I did though.
Other ways of buying are available.
Using the linked fleet site, if it's worth 10k after 3 years from 19k, it rather laughs in the face of the 37k to 12k TCR drop.
You just beat me to it on the depreciation front.
I'd seriously consider one at £19k. Manual (yes!), 5 year warranty and 275ps. Are there still ways of getting them for that kind of price? If so, please elaborate.
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There was some Hyundai UK incentive to get cars sold by 31st December, I had started getting quotes around 23k and the closer it got to the date the price was falling. My local dealer was at 25k and wouldn't move at all. Then one over in Essex dipped under 20k. I was trying to find a red car, they only had grey. With just a couple of days to go it was about 19.3k. I had no chance of getting there as working and did the obvious thing of buying another f***ing VW :laugh:
There were lots around 22k and yes the Performance Pack version. The fastback was also at that price. This was all through carwow.
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There was some Hyundai UK incentive to get cars sold by 31st December, I had started getting quotes around 23k and the closer it got to the date the price was falling. My local dealer was at 25k and wouldn't move at all. Then one over in Essex dipped under 20k. I was trying to find a red car, they only had grey. With just a couple of days to go it was about 19.3k. I had no chance of getting there as working and did the obvious thing of buying another f***ing VW :laugh:
There were lots around 22k and yes the Performance Pack version. The fastback was also at that price. This was all through carwow.
Was there any particular reason for the Hyundai incentive?
Maybe a national end of year event? Maybe an incoming facelift? Might get myself a drive of one in the not too distant future and if it's worthy, I might just bite next time such an offer is on.
The thing I miss most with my Polo is a manual box!
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Would imagine the facelift was exactly it. There weren't any pics/details floating around at the time but it was known to be happening.
I'd definitely consider one again. Or a Yaris GR4 :evil:
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Yep, jv is right as i saw these as well. They were stock cars only, but looking back they were an absolute bargain. Performance versions, either hatchback or fastback for about £22k before haggling. I saw them before Christmas, so wouldn't surprise me if they'd dropped further closer to month end.
Hasn't a facelift just been unveiled recently?
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Yaris GR4 is silly money for what it is (unless another huge discount is achievable).
Just looked at the Hyundai website. 37 month GFV is £12477 - not a kick in the arse off TCR values. Golf interior looks nicer for sure, but £10k nicer (depreciation, not list)? Exterior looks like an Audi/Volvo amalgamation, not too shabby.
There's £2000 via deposit contribution and test drive voucher, so eating into dealership margin at a big dealership with big volume discounts, there should be scope for at least a £5k total discount right now - Carwow indications are that dealerships are nowhere near that figure. 4.9% APR is competitive.
Serious contender at £20-£22k after discount (if you can get that low) for that car to lose £8-10k over 3 years.
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The big Hyundai event a few months ago only applied if you had previously bought one or were referred by a family member. It's all well and good getting quotes from carwow for cheap but it's more difficult getting dealers to get anywhere that price. Two local dealers near me just point blankly refused to budge from the list price even when I showed them carwow prices. Just got the usual patter of don't know how they can sell them at that price. They aren't a bad car and as MH says the 5 year warranty is piece of mind too. They also give you a track warranty which none of the manufacturers in the same segment do. I would have bought one but the horrendous fuel economy is really off putting for something that's no quicker than a mk7 pp. i30N facelift has DCT coming and updated interiors.
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Didn't require referral or previous ownership - that was removed at the end of December.
Already said my local dealer couldn't compete.
You just order through whoever does offer the best price, doesn't matter if the local dealer won't entertain it.
10mpg difference over 10k miles is about 675 quid :laugh:
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So I went and had a sit in.. the I30N.
It's ok, its not exactly full on German premium but nicer than say a Ford or a French car.
Didn't do a test drive today, but did talk to a salesperson (who didn't strike me as someone who knew anything about cars).
Things I learnt:
1) It has a strut over the rear suspension. Nice handling no doubt but a little intrusive if you planned to try to load it to the max. Its not at seat back height, its across the boot floor, but does have some 45 degree reinforcement pieces which do intrude into the load space.
2) I was told "the manager who has one as his car struggles to get 30mpg and typical is more like 18mpg". Wow. Simply wow. That is Range Rover territory for a 276 bhp hot hatch. What did Hyundai do? Drill holes in the bottom of the fuel tank to save weight? She said "but it is a 300bhp car".... actually, no its 276bhp FWD and a BMW 310bhp AWD manages 27mpg when you really floor it. I'm not sure I can bring myself to drive a 18mpg car, even if the extra fuel is offset by the cheapness.
3) Lead time is 1 week. Yes, I said ONE WEEK.
Probably more than anything else though the lack of ACC and DSG is something that would put me off. Apparently with the facelift this is coming, but the facelift is last quarter of 2020. I suppose a 29k car that you added those to is a 33k car... wondering if that is then so far off of a Mk8 GTI.
Think I'm back to the BMW again.
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Didn't require referral or previous ownership - that was removed at the end of December.
Already said my local dealer couldn't compete.
You just order through whoever does offer the best price, doesn't matter if the local dealer won't entertain it.
10mpg difference over 10k miles is about 675 quid :laugh:
yeah but it's not just 10mpg is it! It's upwards of 15 maybe nearer 18.
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10mpg difference over 10k miles is about 675 quid :laugh:
yeah but it's not just 10mpg is it! It's upwards of 15 maybe nearer 18.
So just over £1200 a year then. The cheapness does pay for an awful lot of fuel, but who want's to be filling up every what... 200 miles?
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The PCP and lease deals aren't exactly cheap either. I suppose if you were buying upfront then it wouldn't matter but when I looked at one it was in the region of 500 quid a month.
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But if there were, you'd be wailing about the cheap lease deals like early R always gets criticised for.
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But if there were, you'd be wailing about the cheap lease deals like early R always gets criticised for.
doubt it :grin: I just don't see how Hyundai can expect to attract golf owners if it's going to cost more to buy and run than a golf does 🤷♂️
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... did the obvious thing of buying another f***ing VW :laugh:
:grin: That sounds familiar!!
So I went and had a sit in.. the I30N...
Think I'm back to the BMW again.
It’s good to look at everything on the market and gradually eliminate the other runners.
But then most of us end up back in bloody VW’s again! (See above) :lipsrsealed:
The M135i is by far the strongest runner of the current new crop as a package (for some reason the prettier A35 falls short in my eyes) but with 332PS the 8R or new S3 could suddenly become of interest if priced right.
Ignoring the plethora of ways people on here finance their cars which is unique to each individual the fact remains the whole ownership costs of buying a pre-registered 7.5 GTI/TCR/R should still be quite reasonable over the medium term so long as one isn’t relying on Das Welt PCP costs and instead looking at other options of finance. Just over £30k for an almost brand new TCR or R loaded with all that standard kit isn’t terrible value. A fair bit less for the amazingly capable and economical GTI P even better value and a darn sight prettier than its successor.
But new, right now I’d say the M135i is too good to ignore.
An ex-demo almost impossible to ignore...
This is actually a really good thread. Lots of real life experience, real life costings and projected values (the latter being far more important to some owners than they admit to themselves).
There are people on this forum that have a lot of experience in this field through their work but haven’t contributed which is a shame, it’s always good to see the full picture.
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I test drove an i30N before buying my R. Ride was exceptionally harsh and the mpg was dreadful on the testdrive. I wasn’t hammering it either. However, I really liked the car but when we started talking numbers it was crazy. They wanted over £450 a month from what I remember, far more than my S3 was costing me or my R eventually cost. Tbh at the price they are, I’m surprised you see any in the road.
As far as bmw are concerned, they have a really odd sales technique. What do you want to pay a month? We’ll get it for that. Their discounts are always crazy but there’s a price to pay. You could get the old 140i for around £22 at only six months old. Suppose you have to pay for that discount somewhere.
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Spent a short time driving on the city bypass on Monday and saw three i30N’s within a short space of time so they must be catching on well.
A grey and a white hatch and then a bright green fastback passed me in the opposite direction.
I’m probably about 25 years too old for their typical customer base but have to say they look and sound good. If you can pick one up really cheap and don’t have to use it every day (works van for commuting etc) negating the crap fuel consumption they must be a compelling purchase.
The exhaust pops and cracks would be a bit tragic at my age but they raise a smile on my face when I hear one pass me. I think the i30N has neatly filled a void the Focus ST doesn’t seem to occupy anymore.
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Resurrecting this one.... a new contender its seems....
Mazda 3 Turbo.... seems to suggest a 2.5l engine, 2WD and 228bhp. Coming soon....
That seems a little low on the power for the extra displacement vs what everyone else has, fuel economy is probably sucky too.
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Resurrecting this one.... a new contender its seems....
Mazda 3 Turbo.... seems to suggest a 2.5l engine, 2WD and 228bhp. Coming soon....
That seems a little low on the power for the extra displacement vs what everyone else has, fuel economy is probably sucky too.
Are Mazda really trying?! A 2.5 with a turbo and only 228bhp?!! My S2000 was 237bhp with a 2.0 NA and they are now 20 years old!!
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Resurrecting this one.... a new contender its seems....
Mazda 3 Turbo.... seems to suggest a 2.5l engine, 2WD and 228bhp. Coming soon....
That seems a little low on the power for the extra displacement vs what everyone else has, fuel economy is probably sucky too.
The 2.3 Mazda mps has 260 so they seem to be going backwards :grin:
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It’s a two valve per cylinder pushrod unit running a KKK turbo that doesn’t spool until 4000rpm :whistle:
Talking of Japanese hot(tish) hatches, what’s the gen on the Toyota Corolla sporty thing? (GR Sport?)
I saw a Corolla hybrid thing earlier and damn is it a good looking car in a quirky sort of way.
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It’s a two valve per cylinder pushrod unit running a KKK turbo that doesn’t spool until 4000rpm :whistle:
Talking of Japanese hot(tish) hatches, what’s the gen on the Toyota Corolla sporty thing? (GR Sport?)
I saw a Corolla hybrid thing earlier and damn is it a good looking car in a quirky sort of way.
I think even 'hottish' would be pushing it a bit! My missus has an Auris Hybrid which what this replaced and it does look a bit improvement. The GR Sport is expensive though and its more just some styling bits I think.
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It’s a two valve per cylinder pushrod unit running a KKK turbo that doesn’t spool until 4000rpm :whistle:
Talking of Japanese hot(tish) hatches, what’s the gen on the Toyota Corolla sporty thing? (GR Sport?)
I saw a Corolla hybrid thing earlier and damn is it a good looking car in a quirky sort of way.
I think even 'hottish' would be pushing it a bit! My missus has an Auris Hybrid which what this replaced and it does look a bit improvement. The GR Sport is expensive though and its more just some styling bits I think.
Ahh, maybe the best part of a Corolla is the rear suspension bits bolted on to the GR Yaris then! :whistle:
https://www.toyota.co.uk/new-cars/yaris/gr-yaris-retail-offer
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Interesting in the circuit pack it appears the tyres are 225 40 18 PS4S which you can't buy in the UK.