GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: vw97 on 13 February 2020, 21:31
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Looking at getting a mk7 gtd and can't decide between manual or dsg? Manual is about 2k cheaper, is the DSG worth the extra money? Will be doing about 25K miles per year with mix of motorway driving and heavy traffic.
Thanks
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DSG
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DSG+adaptive cruise+25,000 miles= no brainer
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What they ^^ said!
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Do you want to drive, or be driven?
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Having done 10k less miles than that per year in a manual car, I'd pick DSG every time.
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DSG, the only way to go. Manual are slower so shift on demand, not as economical and in full auto will blow the manual away. Plus the manual has a very weak clutch.
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Absolute no brainer...… DSG!!
DSG is just too good to even consider anything else nowadays especially doing 25k a year! :shocked:
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Interesting everyone is saying DSG. I've had a mk7 GTD and I've got a mk7.5 GTD now, both manual. Due for a change later this year so am considering a mk8 GTD, but cannot decide DSG or manual.
With so much torgue, manual is very easy, even in traffic. Undecided whether to change from something which I know (and like) to something which I don't know (but might like better !)
Anyone got experiences of driving both manual and DSG GTDs? Pros and cons of each?
Thanks
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DSG all day long for me, but it's not for everyone.
It will take a few weeks to learn how to get the best from it, but once sussed, most will never look back. Manual gearboxes have their place, but I think that these days, it's not in daily mile munchers.
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I've had 2 manual GTD's and do 20k per year, mainly A roads and motorway. I use ACC a lot, an awful lot.
Its a piece of cake to drive in manual because the torque is so large.
I avoided DSG because on the Mk7 it was less fuel economical/more CO2/more BIK(!!)
On my current Mk7.5, I avoided DSG because it was more expensive.
Benefits of DSG for me would be:
1) ACC can go right down to 0 mph and back up again - it does work just fine on a manual box, but this would be better - £2k better? Probably not for me even though I don't care about "driving a car" - I love automation.
2) If I drove a lot in heavy traffic an automatic box is definitely better. The few times I slog into cities, I wish I had a DSG but its not that often I do that.
If you are looking at buying a 2nd hand GTD, bear in mind that these things are mainly used by business mile munchers like me (or you probably). From new they are quite reliable IMHO, but buying a 2nd hand one and running it 25k pa.... I think DSG could well become an expensive problem. I wouldn't want to own one getting into the 100k on the clock mark...
I'd also avoid DCC on a 2nd hand one if you are going to mile munch.
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It’s where the miles are done that are important. 3k in peak hour city driving- dsg, 25k motorway- take your pick
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I'm on 20k a year, previously had a mk7 manual, now on a mk7.5 DSG.
Wouldn't look at manual again now, its a completelty different car IMO, effortless to drive anywhere.
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Interesting everyone is saying DSG. I've had a mk7 GTD and I've got a mk7.5 GTD now, both manual. Due for a change later this year so am considering a mk8 GTD, but cannot decide DSG or manual.
Obviously nobody has seen a Mk8 GTD yet, but I suspect it will be DSG only - to get the emissions down in WLTP testing.
Manual boxes going forward are going to be a rare thing.
Its also going to be adblu slurping for sure.
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I do love a manual and yes it is more engaging etc however as others have stated it really depends on your driving style and what you do most of your mileage doing. I sit in traffic a lot on the M6 and in towns/cities, etc so the DSG (and previous DCT, SMG, auto's) have always been much better than riding the clutch.
Do think that with the improvements in technology though that the modern day auto/DSG/DCT are pretty good and can be enjoyable too.
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AdBlue isn't too much of a hardship. It's no different to filling up the screenwash. If you are doing long, steady trips, it won't be all that often either. My T6 Caravelle needs about 1 litre per 1000 miles, so about 2 fills per year.
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If I was doing that mileage, with that type of roads, in a GTD then there would be no consideration of a manual but that's just my opinion.
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I get the benefits of DSG but one thing I would miss would be the golf ball gear knob :)
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I get the benefits of DSG but one thing I would miss would be the golf ball gear knob :)
Glue one onto the top of the DSG knob :whistle: :grin:
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I get the benefits of DSG but one thing I would miss would be the golf ball gear knob :)
Glue one onto the top of the DSG knob :whistle: :grin:
I'm actually shocked no one has done an aftermarket replacement along those lines yet!! :shocked:
Maybe you can keep an actual golf ball in your cup holder and play with it with your redundant hand if you go DSG?!?! :grin:
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Maybe you can keep an actual golf ball in your cup holder and play with it with your redundant hand if you go DSG?!?! :grin:
:grin:
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At 25kmiles pa, most of those will be motorway miles, which is no hardship with a manual box. A manual GTD driven intelligently is a good 10% more frugal than a DSG variant driven the same way. Since the 7 speed DSG came in for the GTI and R, that taller 7th gear redresses the balance, but not for a GTD. Someone on here mentioned weak manual clutches - the GTD clutch is hard as nails, the GTI and R manual clutch is weak. No one that I know of here has had a slipped clutch with a stock or modified GTD. put a box or a remap on a GTI or R manual and clutch slip is inevitable within 10k miles. Have no fear about the robustness of a manual clutch on a GTD.
That being said, my Dad has had a string of DSG TDI Golfs , usually keeping them to 140k to 160k miles without a bother before getting something newer. His MK7 GTD is currently at about 114k miles. If DSGs fail, it's usually well within the warranty period.
DSGs are often described as no brainer - I'd agree with that, you really don't need to allocate much of your brain to driving when you have a DSG and use ACC with it. :grin:
Makes for a very dull and lazy drive IMO. If you're buying a car to rack up the miles with, I'd be more worried about having to sort out a full DPF. My Dad's needs doing - he does about 20k miles pa currently.
Would I pay £2k more for getting a DSG? No way!
Manual is probably less risky for transmission failure - and will be considerably cheaper to put right if it does.
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DSGs are often described as no brainer - I'd agree with that, you really don't need to allocate much of your brain to driving when you have a DSG and use ACC with it. :grin:
Well said but lets be honest here, anyone that's been driving for a few years drives a manual without even thinking about it anyway, you'll soon be doing it subconsciously and besides the huge disadvantage in traffic is that really any different than driving a DSG??? :undecided:
It's amusing that everyone is arguing for what they actually drive..... go DSG forever!!!! :whistle:
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It's amusing that everyone is arguing for what they actually drive..... go DSG forever!!!! :whistle:
I'm not neccessarily!
My next car will be an auto - mainly because that's the way the car industry is going....
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DSGs are often described as no brainer - I'd agree with that, you really don't need to allocate much of your brain to driving when you have a DSG and use ACC with it. :grin:
Well said but lets be honest here, anyone that's been driving for a few years drives a manual without even thinking about it anyway, you'll soon be doing it subconsciously and besides the huge disadvantage in traffic is that really any different than driving a DSG??? :undecided:
It's amusing that everyone is arguing for what they actually drive..... go DSG forever!!!! :whistle:
For daily, I'd get a DSG/auto. For a weekend fun car I'd get a manual. If you only have one car, then a GTI with DSG works very well which why most of us buy them.
But I wouldn't buy a GTD to have fun in as its a 4 pot diesel. So I wouldn't get a manual GTD. But everyone has different wants and needs.
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DSG feels way more special and is worth the extra money. Most of the time you will more likely be stuck in traffic or feeling tired or not really bothered about ‘driving’ the car like you are on a track day
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Just have a go in both and see which you prefer.
I've got a manual, which i'm more than happy with. It never occurred to me to get a dsg. Next time though I may have no choice, VW doesn't seem to offer much with a manual gearbox anymore. :sad:
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I tried both and specifically sought out a manual in the end as I find DSG a bit too hesitant on uptake as it had changed up a gear- just too keen to change up - I prefer to hold on to the revs and still get 40mpg.
I know the pedal box makes a difference on DSG as I have this on my DSG Van and its much more responsive now but as many say its personal preference.
Good luck finding what you enjoy driving.
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Before I bought my Golf GTI with DSG I had a Mk6 Golf TDI, and a Honda S2000, which is generally regarded as having one of the finest manual gearboxes ever made, coupled to a truly great engine.
I've previously only owned cars with manual gearboxes, which over the years included several Golf GTI's, and a Caterham 7. As an aside, I've done dozens of laps around Goodwood, Cadwell Park, Snetterton and Donington, all in either GTi's or a Formula Vee. I can heel-and-toe with the best of them.
The DSG was, once I became used to it, a revelation, and coupled with Auto-Hold has really made everyday driving so much easier. You want to change your own gears, and fulfil those F1 driver fantasies? Put the car into "Sport" mode, push the lever over to the left, and flick those paddles like Sebastian Vettel! Or, as I spend most of my time in traffic, just leave it in "Normal", put the lever into "D", and let the gearbox do what it does best. In everyday traffic, you don't need to do anything else (apart from move the lever back a notch into "S" for a quick overtake).
Once you're used to a DSG, changing gears manually seems so archaic.
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Before I bought my Golf GTI with DSG I had a Mk6 Golf TDI, and a Honda S2000, which is generally regarded as having one of the finest manual gearboxes ever made, coupled to a truly great engine.
I've previously only owned cars with manual gearboxes, which over the years included several Golf GTI's, and a Caterham 7. As an aside, I've done dozens of laps around Goodwood, Cadwell Park, Snetterton and Donington, all in either GTi's or a Formula Vee. I can heel-and-toe with the best of them.
The DSG was, once I became used to it, a revelation, and coupled with Auto-Hold has really made everyday driving so much easier. You want to change your own gears, and fulfil those F1 driver fantasies? Put the car into "Sport" mode, push the lever over to the left, and flick those paddles like Sebastian Vettel! Or, as I spend most of my time in traffic, just leave it in "Normal", put the lever into "D", and let the gearbox do what it does best. In everyday traffic, you don't need to do anything else (apart from move the lever back a notch into "S" for a quick overtake).
Once you're used to a DSG, changing gears manually seems so archaic.
I had an S2000 - what a car, what an engine, what a gearbox! Which is why I said depends what car it is and what it's been used. But you wouldn't have that car with any other box, not that you could get it with any other box!
I tried both and specifically sought out a manual in the end as I find DSG a bit too hesitant on uptake as it had changed up a gear- just too keen to change up - I prefer to hold on to the revs and still get 40mpg.
I know the pedal box makes a difference on DSG as I have this on my DSG Van and its much more responsive now but as many say its personal preference.
Good luck finding what you enjoy driving.
Remember though, a GTD isn't a GTI and it won't same fun whipping through the gears with a manual box with a small powerband and diesel engine as it will in your manual GTI.
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I’m going to go against the grain here and vote for DSG :grin:
It’s effortless, faster, easy to control once you’ve mastered it, and you can eat a cheeseburger whilst navigating roundabouts.
Along with auto hold the car is turned into a go kart, you either stop or you go and no other funny business.
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So here’s the thing..... it took me 5k to fall in love with my DSG.
At 9k my doubt is no more.
How on earth can a DSG novice decide if they prefer it or not on an average “test drive”?
Best advice I think is to rely on the opinion of like minded owners.
Incidentally I took a deep breath and bought a set of silver Raceline paddles to fit on day 1.
Now I have forgotten the ridiculous price I absolutely love ‘em. They are in daily use of course.
Versatility of DSG is amazing if your really learn it and really use all modes regularly. A range of horses for courses available.
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An amusing anecdote to balance things.
My pal let me drive his BMW 330D down the A9 from Wick to Perth before I ever owned my own auto (DSG).
I said I really liked using the paddles on the BMW for lightning overtakes. He said he had no idea what I was talking about ...what paddles??
I suspect 95% of all VW car owners just stick the DSG in D and leave it there all the time.
Behind that lies a b clever piece of VAG kit.
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I've had autos over the years from time to time - never long term, but as loaners from bodyshops when my car was banged up.
At first, they seem strange and you don't feel in control. Which is why a test drive isn't going to settle it.
After a couple of days you get used to the lazyness and love the feeling of driving in traffic effortlessly.
When you give it back and go back to manual you think urrrgh.
Only four things I can say that are bad about autos:
1) In the past their fuel economy was truly dreadful vs manual
2) In the past the horrible wallowy feeling of a sloppy auto box causing the car to jolt and lurch
3) In the past the terrible performance of auto vs manual
4) The extra cost of buying an auto vs manual
A Mk7.x Golf DSG does not suffer from 1-3.
#4 is still a problem but VW are solving that one for you going forward, by only offering DSG.
Might as well get used to it now - electric milkfloats cars don't have gearboxes.
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I don’t think a manual gearbox is remotely archaic.
It’s a physical interaction between a human and a machine.
It’s like saying washing a car by hand is archaic.
Both of those things are very satisfying and rewarding if done properly.
However if doing 25k a year then a DSG would be the sensible choice as much as the engine chosen to perform the job. A GTD DSG would fill the role perfectly IMO.