GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: b80 on 24 October 2019, 08:41
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Hi all,
I'm weighing up whether to go for a GTI PP or R.
I know a car isn't really an investment, but I I'm trying to factor in whether a GTI PP or R will depreciate less over the next few years.
Historically R(32's) have held better, but as there a loads of mk7's due to the arly low cost leasing, I'm wondering if it will be so pronounced this time around.
In fact, I've been browsing prices on auto trader the last few weeks and theres not a lot in the list prices.
I'm itching to get out out of my super bland civic 1.8, but may be better waiting until of year. Are there usually descents cuts over the slow xmas months?
Also, is there a lot of difference in maintenance/running costs between the GTI and R?
Thanks
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Are you talking new? Factory order?
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I'm looking at used.
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Probably quite a good time to be looking between now and say 31st January as the market is superslow in buying anything, which means a lot of people quite keen to shift stuff.
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I bought a GTi PP and ran it for nearly 2 years before the call of an R got to me, more than happy I swapped.
The R feels much more solid and planted and comfortable, much better real world performance - try pulling away fast in the wet in a GTi PP and feel the tramp, in the R it just squats and goes.
Also I was 15 seconds faster round the Bedford Autodrome in my R vs the GTi - obviously my driving style affects this but conditions were very similar so a fair like for like time.
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I bought a GTi PP and ran it for nearly 2 years before the call of an R got to me, more than happy I swapped.
The R feels much more solid and planted and comfortable, much better real world performance - try pulling away fast in the wet in a GTi PP and feel the tramp, in the R it just squats and goes.
Also I was 15 seconds faster round the Bedford Autodrome in my R vs the GTi - obviously my driving style affects this but conditions were very similar so a fair like for like time.
Intersting to hear from someone who's owned both.
How much more roughly does the R cost to run/maintain?
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Service costs the same except Haldex service at around £200 every 2 years - recommended done at an independent as VW do not remove pump and clean filter and charge more, if ignored the pump can clog up or burn out resulting in front wheel drive only. There is a thread on the 'Dirtiest Haldex pump here
https://www.vwroc.com/forums/topic/24283-and-the-filthiest-haldex-filter-award-goes-to/?tab=comments#comment-388396
MPG very similar for my typical drive, both will drop off quickly when driven hard.
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Thanks, good to know, I live near vasworks in Dorset, so I'll use them.
Did you purchase yours from franchise dealers or dealership?
What's your opinion on purchasing from vw dealers compared to the alternatives. Rightly or wrongly I perceive there being more protection/safety buying from vw, although it appears you pay an extra grand or two for the pleasure.
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Swings and roundabouts.
An R costs more but fetches more at resale, they cost similar mounts to run but the GTI is significantly better on fuel if you’re doing lots of miles and not thrashing it.
The 7R has a cult following so in decent demand but many will have been thrashed. Buy carefully! There are lots of examples to choose from.
I’ve owned both a GTI and R and would pick the R all day long but the GTI is actually very underrated. In day to day use there’s a fag paper difference in performance if you’re not drag racing but the R engine is much more peppy.
Depending on what year you’re looking at and budget have you considered the Clubsport or TCR? These models offer the best of both worlds and feel that little bit more special.
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Thanks, good to know, I live near vasworks in Dorset, so I'll use them.
Did you purchase yours from franchise dealers or dealership?
What's your opinion on purchasing from vw dealers compared to the alternatives. Rightly or wrongly I perceive there being more protection/safety buying from vw, although it appears you pay an extra grand or two for the pleasure.
Bought mine new from a dealer -Inchcape in Swindon as they work with discount webs sites and were offering the best discount when I bought (18%). Very good service, car immaculately prepared. Bought a 4 year warranty and service pack at time of purchase - very good value then. Car serviced by local (Northampton) VW dealer with no issues and no faults to date other than dry door rubbers creaking - and known VW issue.
Can't comment on buying second hand but a VW dealer should offer a warranty if outside the initial 3 years, do check full service history and all usual checks, tyres/interior vs recorded miles and whether the car was owned outright as likely to better cared for than a contract. Contract cars were normally on a 2 year/variable service schedule, I would want mine to be serviced every year irrespective of mileage so check carefully.
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Yeah, a concern with buying a 2nd hand car like this
is how it's been handled. We can check servicing, condition etc, but can never be certain it hasn't been redlined each day from cold.
That's why I've ended up putting off buying one before. Its tempting to buy one new, especially as car wow had several dealerships offering new r's (with no options) for slightly under 31k last month. GTI pp for 28.5k.
Issue with buying new is I park each working day in a public car park, so would be more concerned with dings compared to an older one. Depreciation will probably be pretty brutal, although looking at 2017 r' at vw dealerships, they're going for roughly 25k, so not a great deal of saving there.
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Having owned both I have to agree with virtually all of the above, the only thing I will say and it is my personal opinion, the GTI especially in performance and TCR guise are by far the more exclusive nowdays!!
The R is fantastic in every single way but I cant help but think they've sold more of them than the standard SE and in the real world bar a standing start as said earlier, not really that much in it. oh and the new LSD on the GTI, really impressive, only once in pouring rain and near full launch did it tramp briefly!
I absolutely see you're dilemma between the two because I was in the same position, you're only saving grace.... honestly which ever way you go you'll end up with an amazing car!!
Good luck
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Having owned both I have to agree with virtually all of the above, the only thing I will say and it is my personal opinion, the GTI especially in performance and TCR guise are by far the more exclusive nowdays!!
The R is fantastic in every single way but I cant help but think they've sold more of them than the standard SE and in the real world bar a standing start as said earlier, not really that much in it. oh and the new LSD on the GTI, really impressive, only once in pouring rain and near full launch did it tramp briefly!
I absolutely see you're dilemma between the two because I was in the same position, you're only saving grace.... honestly which ever way you go you'll end up with an amazing car!!
Good luck
You're probably right, more R's and GTI's than SE's on AT!
I'm on my 2nd 7.5 GTI (had a 230 then my current 245) and I'm now hankering after an R next year. Opting out of company cars to buy my own and a 2017/18 R is definitely high on the list.
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I’ve owned a Mk7 pp gti and now have an R. It took me an eternity to decide between the two when I came to change my S3. First it was the gti, then the R. If I hadn’t have previously owned the gti I would have gone for it but the R just felt like a new car to me at the time. Both cars are fantastic. The gti feels lighter but the traction in the R is something to behold. I’ll probably go back to a gti next time but I love my R and definitely made the right decision. Drive both.
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There are some fortunate boys on here who can afford to change cars every year it seems. Both cars equally fun to drive
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I think king monkey has definitely given the best bit of advice, drive them!! For 2 amazing cars sharing all the same basics they really are so different to drive, the light on its feet GTI and the absolute sure footed R.
I honestly can’t see mine going anywhere any time soon but i think next time I’d have to drive the TCR and R back to back, unless they can work some real magic on that dogs dinner of a mk8 when they finally get round to the performance versions!
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Thanks for your help everyone.
Test drove a few cars today. Sold on an R or S3. Actually prefer the R's looks and being better value will probably go for one of them.
The audi chap drove for the first part of the test drive and he was hammering it, really was incredible. Buzzing for ages afterwards. Amazing how there was no wheel spin leaving junctions in wet conditions.
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I purchased a 2014 PP golf last week in Northern Ireland, moved from a 2001 s3
Love how new it feels and the technology, looks, style. But Christ do I wish I stayed 4wd. It had brand new Pirelli tyres and no matter what, it spins taking off, wet or dry, and it slides going into corners at speeds my s3 would just take off in.
I was looking at golf r’s, there’s one beside me in Dublin and only has 6k miles on it. But weighing up petrol costs, tax costs, insurance, having to service the rear diff oil, haldex, then registration tax in Ireland, unfortunately it just was a bit over budget for me at the minute. I also hear they’re not exactly 100% reliable. (Could be wrong)
If I had the choice, now, after driving my gti golf for a week. I’d stick with my old s3 or if I had to change car I’d go with a golf r or s3. Just because the Quattro is night and day to FWD.
PFA
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When I first test drove an R a few years ago the salesman apparently thought he could impress me by doing 120mph down the motorway. I kid you not.
After owning the S3 and R, the R feels more sporty to me. The S3 was more of a motorway cruiser type car.
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It'd be a Clubsport for me. Sure the R is impressive when hammering it from a standing start but I preferred the nimbleness and feel of the GTI so went for that.
MK7 GTI PP ~ £15k
Remap ~ £1k
Tyres ~ £400
Very capable streetcar that'll do license losing speeds in no time at all. It'll also achieve 40mpg and do the school run when you want it to.
You can buy mine off me, it gets more attention than my girlfriend :grin:
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Remap ~ £1k
Are people paying 1000 quid to remap these????? :shocked:
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I purchased a 2014 PP golf last week in Northern Ireland, moved from a 2001 s3
Love how new it feels and the technology, looks, style. But Christ do I wish I stayed 4wd. It had brand new Pirelli tyres and no matter what, it spins taking off, wet or dry, and it slides going into corners at speeds my s3 would just take off in.
I was looking at golf r’s, there’s one beside me in Dublin and only has 6k miles on it. But weighing up petrol costs, tax costs, insurance, having to service the rear diff oil, haldex, then registration tax in Ireland, unfortunately it just was a bit over budget for me at the minute. I also hear they’re not exactly 100% reliable. (Could be wrong)
If I had the choice, now, after driving my gti golf for a week. I’d stick with my old s3 or if I had to change car I’d go with a golf r or s3. Just because the Quattro is night and day to FWD.
PFA
The Quattro is night and day if you drive like a tit in the wet.
If you’re sliding then the 4wd will slide too, thats tyre grip not related to traction.
The chassis and VAQ diff of the GTI are quite up to the task on a standard car. You will need to learn how to get the best out of the VAQ though. Progressive throttle and it’ll power through bends like a mid engined car. Less understeer than an R and has more advanced traction control than the 4wd car.
I’ve had a GTI PP both standard and modified, an R likewise and a Clubsport.
Surprise surprise but the GTI’s don’t fall off the road! You might have bought the wrong car for your driving style.
I don’t wear GTI blinkers either, I prefer the R myself.
The GTi is more than capable on UK roads though. Maybe it just doesn’t suit your driving style as it would easily match an older S3 (both standard) at sane road speeds.
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That’s the most sense I have heard on any car forum for a long time :smiley: :smiley:
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The Quattro is night and day if you drive like a tit in the wet.
If you’re sliding then the 4wd will slide too, thats tyre grip not related to traction.
The chassis and VAQ diff of the GTI are quite up to the task on a standard car. You will need to learn how to get the best out of the VAQ though. Progressive throttle and it’ll power through bends like a mid engined car. Less understeer than an R and has more advanced traction control than the 4wd car.
I’ve had a GTI PP both standard and modified, an R likewise and a Clubsport.
Surprise surprise but the GTI’s don’t fall off the road! You might have bought the wrong car for your driving style.
I don’t wear GTI blinkers either, I prefer the R myself.
The GTi is more than capable on UK roads though. Maybe it just doesn’t suit your driving style as it would easily match an older S3 (both standard) at sane road speeds.
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The worst thing about an R/S3 is it makes sh!t drivers look good. A GTI PP in the right hands won't be far behind
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That’s the most sense I have heard on any car forum for a long time :smiley: :smiley:
Agreed, great post. With “ progressive throttle” you can go very very fast in the Gti- for me, that’s the fun of driving it, though it is a less capable car than the R
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I have a standard mk 7 GTI no pp and its I have to say a better car than im a driver ! and the roads here are narrow and limited opportunity to push it .
there I said it
I am far happier and pushing the envelope
on a bike but I know my driving ability and the GTI is fine
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Remap ~ £1k
Are people paying 1000 quid to remap these????? :shocked:
For ECU and TCU remapping from someone like APR or Revo then its in the region of £1300 I believe.
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Yeah, a concern with buying a 2nd hand car like this
is how it's been handled. We can check servicing, condition etc, but can never be certain it hasn't been redlined each day from cold.
That's why I've ended up putting off buying one before. Its tempting to buy one new, especially as car wow had several dealerships offering new r's (with no options) for slightly under 31k last month. GTI pp for 28.5k.
Issue with buying new is I park each working day in a public car park, so would be more concerned owith dings compared to an older one. Depreciation will probably be pretty brutal, although looking at 2017 r' at vw dealerships, they're going for roughly 25k, so not a great deal of saving there.
What dealers are offering a brand new R at £31k???
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Yeah, a concern with buying a 2nd hand car like this
is how it's been handled. We can check servicing, condition etc, but can never be certain it hasn't been redlined each day from cold.
That's why I've ended up putting off buying one before. Its tempting to buy one new, especially as car wow had several dealerships offering new r's (with no options) for slightly under 31k last month. GTI pp for 28.5k.
Issue with buying new is I park each working day in a public car park, so would be more concerned owith dings compared to an older one. Depreciation will probably be pretty brutal, although looking at 2017 r' at vw dealerships, they're going for roughly 25k, so not a great deal of saving there.
What dealers are offering a brand new R at £31k???
Go on drive the deal, a totally standard white 5 door dsg at £30500...
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Yeah, a concern with buying a 2nd hand car like this
is how it's been handled. We can check servicing, condition etc, but can never be certain it hasn't been redlined each day from cold.
That's why I've ended up putting off buying one before. Its tempting to buy one new, especially as car wow had several dealerships offering new r's (with no options) for slightly under 31k last month. GTI pp for 28.5k.
Issue with buying new is I park each working day in a public car park, so would be more concerned owith dings compared to an older one. Depreciation will probably be pretty brutal, although looking at 2017 r' at vw dealerships, they're going for roughly 25k, so not a great deal of saving there.
What dealers are offering a brand new R at £31k???
Go on drive the deal, a totally standard white 5 door dsg at £30500...
What’s the catch with these websites? They seem too good to be true!
19 plate cars at VW are all going for about £29k, so it makes it a no brainer to buy new.
Do I deal with the dealer direct or the third party company?
Any help appreciated!
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There's plenty of information on their website. I do know a there are people on here that use them. I nearly ordered from them but didn't want to wait for a new order so bought ex-demo. Basically they have VW dealers who will do those prices and drive the deal get a commission. You order through the dealer once you confirm your purchase. The dealer could be anywhere so factor that in but with the discount it is likely worth it.
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What’s the catch with these websites? They seem too good to be true!
19 plate cars at VW are all going for about £29k, so it makes it a no brainer to buy new.
Do I deal with the dealer direct or the third party company?
Any help appreciated!
No catch and nothing dodgy - Drive the deal is acting as an introducer, and once you’ve placed an order, all future contact is with the VW dealer.
Drive the Deal has been in existence for many years, and there are quite a few forum members who’ve used them. Cars are all brand new unregistered vehicles, UK spec with 3 year new car factory warranty, and you will be the first registered keeper. There are other well established broker sites such as Orange Wheels, and it’s also worth checking out Carwow too.
Quite often, vehicles ordered through brokers such as Drive the Deal are handled by the fleet division of the larger VW Dealers because of the large volume of customers / orders they introduce to the dealership. And it’s that large volume that means they’ve been able to negotiate the attractive prices.
As @Watts has said, the dealer may be some distance away from where you live, so you may need to travel to collect the car. The only other minor downside is that some dealers for broker introduced business don’t offer part exchange (Carwow dealers do) although there are other ways to dispose of an existing car and still benefit financially overall.
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What’s the catch with these websites? They seem too good to be true!
19 plate cars at VW are all going for about £29k, so it makes it a no brainer to buy new.
Do I deal with the dealer direct or the third party company?
Any help appreciated!
No catch and nothing dodgy - Drive the deal is acting as an introducer, and once you’ve placed an order, all future contact is with the VW dealer.
Drive the Deal has been in existence for many years, and there are quite a few forum members who’ve used them. Cars are all brand new unregistered vehicles, UK spec with 3 year new car factory warranty, and you will be the first registered keeper. There are other well established broker sites such as Orange Wheels, and it’s also worth checking out Carwow too.
Quite often, vehicles ordered through brokers such as Drive the Deal are handled by the fleet division of the larger VW Dealers because of the large volume of customers / orders they introduce to the dealership. And it’s that large volume that means they’ve been able to negotiate the attractive prices.
As @Watts has said, the dealer may be some distance away from where you live, so you may need to travel to collect the car. The only other minor downside is that some dealers for broker introduced business don’t offer part exchange (Carwow dealers do) although there are other ways to dispose of an existing car and still benefit financially overall.
Thank you, that’s a very good explanation.
I don’t have a part exchange, it will just be a deposit and finance.
I think on one of the sites, it said national delivery. Now that would be good :smiley:
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I think on one of the sites, it said national delivery. Now that would be good :smiley:
Yes, for a fee they will deliver.
I went to get mine - gave me an excuse to drive my new car!
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Some of them deliver for free. I bought my old GTI through carwow and they brought it in front of my house, gave me the keys, signed for delivery and the lady went off. Nothing was charged, the only thing was the increased mileage by 20+ miles between dealer and my house.
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Some even deliver on a trailer for free, so there's only a few miles on your car when you receive it.
I bought my 2018 Polo GTI+ through DTD and it was to be a fresh order. I was then put in touch with the supplying dealership contact, who let me know about a few "in the pipeline" cars coming through that would save me a lot of waiting, As it was, there was a car that I ended up grabbing, turning an 8 month wait into a 2 month wait. The car was trailered from Listers of Nuneaton to my place of work in Newcastle. The driver of the flatbed unloaded the car into the works car park and I went over it with a fine-toothed comb while he waited. The trailering of the car was included in the DTD price.
Went the same route to get the wife's car.
In both cases, I got rid of our would-be part-exes privately.
You don't generally get a good deal both ends of the transaction - great discount on the new one? Below par p/x usually means the hassle-free cost to change can be met by your local dealer. In my case, Listers were fine about taking my Golf R as p/x, but were up front that they'd only be offering £15500 (I got £17300 selling to a performance cars company just outside York, who had it up for £20k to sell. Your average VW dealer wants 20-25% margin in your p/x.