GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: Sootchucker on 30 January 2019, 08:42
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Well, we had our first downpour of snow overnight (about 3 inches), and my drive to work this morning in the GTI was, well shall we say entertaining. The main roads had been gritted by our council, but on our estate and the non major ones weren't, and my 19" Alloys with Pirelli P Zeros didn't like it one bit. Many times when trying to start off with as light a throttle as possible (DSG box in Manual), the wheels just spun and the nose of car went from side to side before it gained a bit of traction. The Pirelli's certainly don't like ice one little bit.
It also amazed me how fast some other road users were travelling at when it was clear to see the road underneath us was sheet ice.
I now definitely see the advantages of having a set of winter wheels and tyres for the car, and need to investigate urgent if this weather continues (but of course this is the wrong time of the year (price wise) to but winter wheels/ tyres) !
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First time? I thought you guys were getting a bit of snow and ice regularly, or at least regularly enough that a winter tire set would be considered standard (this might be as little as once/twice per season provided you also get 5deg C max for a longer period). I spent 4 years much more down to the south, near the Franco-Swiss border, where I believe temps should be a bit higher on average than the UK and still, the norm for practically all cars was to run on winter tires from Dec to March.
It was then and there that I discovered what a winter tire was and how much of a night n day difference it made in these conditions, even though it looked like a standard tire with simply more tread cuts (winter ones but not studded). Since then I wouldn't even consider driving a car, any car, without winters wherever snow or ice is a possibility. Too foolish risk to take.
Can't say I'm surprised at the GTI behaviour though. And it wouldn't be any different on any other car with summers. Maybe the fast road users were running on winters? After your own shock probably your "safety" limits were lowered (in terms of speed) considerably. Or they could have been just standard idiots :tongue:
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Summer tyres don't work in freezing temperatures with snow and ice? I'm, shocked!
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I'd be going with a cross climate instead of a full winter. We have more cold weather with wet conditions than snow so a full winter isn't really necessary (that's in the North East of England anyway).
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I'd be going with a cross climate instead of a full winter. We have more cold weather with wet conditions than snow so a full winter isn't really necessary (that's in the North East of England anyway).
It's been said a million times before, winter tyres are not just for snow. They perform really well when it's cold, wet and greasy too. Where they do loose out is when it warms up over 7 degrees, they get a bit squirmy. I know lots of people that leave their winters on all year round, so I guess the Jack of all trades cross climates negate for people that do that.
Both my Amarok and Tig have been on winters since November and they'll probably stay on until well into April.
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Just to clarify from the bit of a snide comment above ( >:D ), I wasn't expecting summer tyres to be good in snow and ice, but it really surprised me how bad the Pirelli's actually were - not just on the snow and ice, but slush as well, with the ESP and ABS flickering on in all conditions. Oh Fred, I also had the acc warning that the front sensor was obscured as well.
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On my recommendation - my parents have just had a set of Michelin Cross Climate Plus tyres fitted to their Mercedes C Class. It is an all weather tyre which is summer biased and has relatively weak snow and ice performance. But the snow and ice performance is still much better than any summer tyre.
However, I have chosen to fit summer and winter tyres. This is still the best/safest option.
I didn't buy a second set of alloys. I just pay to get them swapped over. Tyre storage bags with carry handles keep me and the car clean. My wife uses this method too.
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Fitted these to my R Estate a coupe of weeks ago, Revo RV018 and Continental TS850P, offer loads of confidence and grip compared to Pretorias and P Zero tyres when the temps drop.
(https://i.imgur.com/DH7SnCZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/AJVY4RX.jpg)
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The Bridgestone All weather is a certified snow tyre so will be more than capable of handling the current weather conditions. I also wasn't saying in my previous post that a winter tyre is just for snow I was pointing out that an all weather tyre such as above will be more than capable fit the weather we have. Totally different story if you're in the Highlands or get regular snow.
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Oh Fred, I also had the acc warning that the front sensor was obscured as well.
Thanks! Grrr bloody thing!
Mind you, if you were spinning up, I'd not be using ACC... in fact, I think if the TC/ESP kicks in, ACC comes off -I've had it when I've hit a big puddle on the motorway at 70mph...
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Fitted these to my R Estate a coupe of weeks ago, Revo RV018 and Continental TS850P, offer loads of confidence and grip compared to Pretorias and P Zero tyres when the temps drop.
(https://i.imgur.com/DH7SnCZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/AJVY4RX.jpg)
They look great!
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Well, we had our first downpour of snow overnight (about 3 inches), and my drive to work this morning in the GTI was, well shall we say entertaining. The main roads had been gritted by our council, but on our estate and the non major ones weren't, and my 19" Alloys with Pirelli P Zeros didn't like it one bit. Many times when trying to start off with as light a throttle as possible (DSG box in Manual), the wheels just spun and the nose of car went from side to side before it gained a bit of traction. The Pirelli's certainly don't like ice one little bit.
It also amazed me how fast some other road users were travelling at when it was clear to see the road underneath us was sheet ice.
I now definitely see the advantages of having a set of winter wheels and tyres for the car, and need to investigate urgent if this weather continues (but of course this is the wrong time of the year (price wise) to but winter wheels/ tyres) !
The Pirellis are downright scary in cold weather, never mind ice/snow. Like others on this thread, I now run summers from Apr-Nov ish and winters the rest of the year (on the same wheels - switch tyres).
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I'm running Cross Climate + on my GTI Perf. and although we've not had a dump here yet, they certainly inspire confidence when temps drop to 5 ish or below; noticably more grippy than standards. Also they don't get too squirmy when it's not so cold.
I'll switch back to summers in a few months time I expect, but for me and where I live they seem a good option.
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I have 2 sets of the OEM 18" Seville Grey with red stripe.
One set with the horrid summer bridgestones and one set with Pirelli Sottozero Winters... they are ace in this weather :)
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Summer tyres don't work in freezing temperatures with snow and ice? I'm, shocked!
I must admit when I saw the title I thought "bet it's running summer tyres"
30k+ car and people risk it by using summer tyres in snow. Mind blowing and a danger to other road users.
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Summer tyres don't work in freezing temperatures with snow and ice? I'm, shocked!
I must admit when I saw the title I thought "bet it's running summer tyres"
30k+ car and people risk it by using summer tyres in snow. Mind blowing and a danger to other road users.
It's funny how the majority have managed just fine for years and years on one set of tyres but all of a sudden everyone jumps on the bandwagon and then it's frowned upon for not using winter tyres. They aren't always necessary for every part of the country and I think to be fair drivers with winter tyres on have an over inflated sense of safety thinking they'll be saved much like 4 wheel drive drivers too (not everyone :wink:)
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Yes, we did manage for decades without winter tyres, but we also managed perfectly well without mobile phones. The difference with winter tyres, if done correctly, they don't actually cost any more money than not bothering. So why not embrace advances in technology and put them to good use?
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It's funny how the majority have managed just fine for years and years on one set of tyres but all of a sudden everyone jumps on the bandwagon and then it's frowned upon for not using winter tyres. They aren't always necessary for every part of the country and I think to be fair drivers with winter tyres on have an over inflated sense of safety thinking they'll be saved much like 4 wheel drive drivers too (not everyone :wink:)
Totally agree with you.
I find it amusing that somebody above actually said Pirelli P-Zero's are "downright scary in cold weather, never mind ice/snow". I ran a B8 RS4 from brand new for 2 years, which came with these tyres fitted from the factory. Come rain, shine, cold, snow, they did the job of keeping my nearly 2 tonne car on the road without any problem. there was nothing scary about them, and in those 2yrs it included some very high speed continental jaunts in cold/rainy conditions. :rolleyes:
I had all-seasons on my last car (a Range Rover Sport) which had them fitted from the factory, and yes they are clearly grippier, but we're talking a 2-2.5 tonne car which I would argue needs them.
Driving to the conditions will be more of a benefit than running all-seasons and continuing to drive normally.
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Summer tyres don't work in freezing temperatures with snow and ice? I'm, shocked!
I must admit when I saw the title I thought "bet it's running summer tyres"
30k+ car and people risk it by using summer tyres in snow. Mind blowing and a danger to other road users.
For reference, I'm on the Bridgestones. But if its snow, I' won't be surprised that my 245bhp hot hatch isn't too good in snow and ice! Winter tyres aren't necessary for everyone but they would be a benefit to a lot of people.
And just in case you wonder what a GTI would be like in proper snow with the appropriate tyres on...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCP2Oq8UElE&t=113s
:cool:
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Yes, we did manage for decades without winter tyres, but we also managed perfectly well without mobile phones. The difference with winter tyres, if done correctly, they don't actually cost any more money than not bothering. So why not embrace advances in technology and put them to good use?
Agree with those comments..
Why not use them not a case of ‘having an over inflated sense of safety’ as somebody said more a case of being aware of the benefits from using them.
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It's funny how the majority have managed just fine for years and years on one set of tyres but all of a sudden everyone jumps on the bandwagon and then it's frowned upon for not using winter tyres. They aren't always necessary for every part of the country and I think to be fair drivers with winter tyres on have an over inflated sense of safety thinking they'll be saved much like 4 wheel drive drivers too (not everyone :wink:)
Totally agree with you.
I find it amusing that somebody above actually said Pirelli P-Zero's are "downright scary in cold weather, never mind ice/snow". I ran a B8 RS4 from brand new for 2 years, which came with these tyres fitted from the factory. Come rain, shine, cold, snow, they did the job of keeping my nearly 2 tonne car on the road without any problem. there was nothing scary about them, and in those 2yrs it included some very high speed continental jaunts in cold/rainy conditions. :rolleyes:
I had all-seasons on my last car (a Range Rover Sport) which had them fitted from the factory, and yes they are clearly grippier, but we're talking a 2-2.5 tonne car which I would argue needs them.
Driving to the conditions will be more of a benefit than running all-seasons and continuing to drive normally.
That would be me. First sign of cold weather 4 months after buying the car (so Jan 17), I set off for work. My road wasn't particularly bad, but was cold and had a dusting of snow. That said, even the M3 from further down the road had no problem navigating out of the estate. I pulled off the drive, drove 70 yards to a 90 degree right hand bend at about 10mph, turned early and gently, got hardly any traction and slid semi-sideways for the width of the road, almost hitting an A-Class that was parked there. Parked my car back on drive, changed tyres. You'll forgive me for thinking that the P Zeros are terrible in cold weather, because they are. There are plenty of summer tyres that are "acceptable" in single digit and sub zero temperatures, e.g. Rainsports, but the P Zeros are not one of them. It's the first time I've ever felt the need to take a summer tyre off during winter, having previously run (on different cars) Uniroyal RS2s, RS3s, Avon ZZ5s and Toyo T1Rs (which weren't great, but not P Zero bad in the cold). I have a friend with an S3 that's just taken P Zeros off as he also found them lacking in cold weather traction. They are, however, great tyres in warm and dry conditions, and not too bad in the (warmer) wet.
It's not car specific either, here's a whole thread about how terrible they are on Volvo 4x4s: https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/archive/index.php/t-171239.html (https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/archive/index.php/t-171239.html)
And a good read on PistonHeads:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=1721307&i=0 (https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=1721307&i=0)
Driving to the conditions with tyres suitable for the conditions is the safest way to drive. There is no logical argument against winter tyres, unless you literally have no space to store whichever set is not on the car.
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I pulled off the drive, drove 70 yards to a 90 degree right hand bend at about 10mph, turned early and gently, got hardly any traction and slid semi-sideways for the width of the road, almost hitting an A-Class that was parked there. Parked my car back on drive, changed tyres. You'll forgive me for thinking that the P Zeros are terrible in cold weather, because they are.
So your dramatic conclusion that a brand of tyre used on high performance cars across the world is scarily unsafe, comes from you driving a grand total of 70yards in cold weather conditions?!?
Laughable.
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I pulled off the drive, drove 70 yards to a 90 degree right hand bend at about 10mph, turned early and gently, got hardly any traction and slid semi-sideways for the width of the road, almost hitting an A-Class that was parked there. Parked my car back on drive, changed tyres. You'll forgive me for thinking that the P Zeros are terrible in cold weather, because they are.
So your dramatic conclusion that a brand of tyre used on high performance cars across the world is scarily unsafe, comes from you driving a grand total of 70yards in cold weather conditions?!?
Laughable.
No, it comes from my understanding of physics and glass transition (Tg). That and having driven P Zeros on other cars, including aforementioned S3. I did 70 yards in my car in light snow on that particular journey and then decided I wasn't willing to risk keeping the P Zeros on in cold weather any longer - travelling another 70 yards back on to the drive if you wanted to be really pedantic.
It's a high performance summer tyre fitted on high performance cars across the world, but it looks as though you'd rather conveniently ignore other similar cold weather experiences on this very thread, the couple of others that I linked to, and the many others on Google.
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but it looks as though you'd rather conveniently ignore other similar cold weather experiences on this very thread, the couple of others that I linked to, and the many others on Google.
No, I'd rather go on my 26yrs driving experience, and actual real-world usage of performance cars, rather than internet stories and scaremongering. For every thread you can dig up saying they are scary, I could dig up a thread saying there is nothing wrong with them... e.g. https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=1704188&i=0
As said, I had PZeros on a 450hp (and nigh on 2 tonne) RS4 which I drove all year round (for two years, most of teh time fully loaded with two kids, buggy, baby paraphernalia, dog etc) in all sorts of weather, not once did I think "ooooh that was scary", if it was cold I slowed down and adapted my driving to the conditions that might see me hitting black ice or slippy surfaces.
I agree that high performance road tyres will not work as well in colder temperatures as they would in hot temperatures (that's a no brainer!), but no matter what summer tyres you are on (from a good brand), the differences are negligible.
As you said, as I said, and as every sensible person says, simply drive to the conditions or fit all-season tyres if you're that worried.
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but it looks as though you'd rather conveniently ignore other similar cold weather experiences on this very thread, the couple of others that I linked to, and the many others on Google.
No, I go on my 26yrs driving experience, and actual real-world usage of performance cars. Rather than internet stories and scaremongering. For every thread you can dig up saying they are scary, I could dig up a thread saying there is nothing wrong with them... e.g. https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=1704188&i=0
As said, I had PZeros on a 450hp (and nigh on 2 tonne) RS4 which I drove all year round (for two years) in all sorts of weather, not once did I think "ooooh that was scary", if it was cold I slowed down and adapted my driving to the conditions that might see me hitting black ice or slippy surfaces.
As you said, as I said, and as every sensible person says, simply drive to the conditions. High performance road tyres will not work as well in colder temperatures as they would in hot temperatures, so no matter what summer tyres you are on (from a good brand), the differences are negligible.
Funnily enough I was reading that very thread before you linked it, I would hardly call it a glowing review in cold weather...
I still haven’t heard a logical argument against winter tyres.
I strongly suspect that location is a factor in whether summer tyres are “OK” in winter. Much of my driving is rural and often far more North than where I live. If you are further South with typically warmer weather, or nearer a large population where more of the roads are gritted and cleared then your need for winter tyres is reduced. It doesn’t mean that winter tyres are not more effective.
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Summer tyres don't work in freezing temperatures with snow and ice? I'm, shocked!
I must admit when I saw the title I thought "bet it's running summer tyres"
30k+ car and people risk it by using summer tyres in snow. Mind blowing and a danger to other road users.
A danger to other road users eh ! What an arrogant prick !
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You can always rely on a winter tyres thread to divide opinion.
I think they're great, certainly better in colder temperatures than any summer tyre i've tried. However, you should be driving to the conditions whichever tyre you're on. Having winter tyres fitted doesn't mean you should just drive as normal, they just give you a greater margin of safety.
I've noticed though, towards the end of their life the lower tread depth does mean the performance on snow and ice does drop off noticeably. Still quite a bit of tread left before they're close to being illegal, but just not as sharp or responsive as they were for the first couple of winters.
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I strongly suspect that location is a factor in whether summer tyres are “OK” in winter. Much of my driving is rural and often far more North than where I live. If you are further South with typically warmer weather, or nearer a large population where more of the roads are gritted and cleared then your need for winter tyres is reduced. It doesn’t mean that winter tyres are not more effective.
This sounds right to me and is likely why opinion is divided, local factors.
I've never used winter tyres but have considered them the last couple of years. I haven't for two reasons, I have never had that loose bottom moment that would encourage me and I really haven't anywhere to store a spare set.
Last March I went away for a rather pleasent weekend to stay with friends at their caravan in Weymouth. It was cold but it was only after we set off that it started to snow. We got there fine and had a great afternoon in the pub which not only had my favourite beer (Timothy Taylors if anyone is remotely interested) but also served me up with a plateful of gluten free fish and chips. Now either of those is pretty tricky for me to get these days but to get both was amazing :kiss: Anyway, next morning when I looked out the heavens had really opened up overnight and there was a good six inches of snow! Thing was, my car was parked at the top of a short but very steep slope where at the bottom I needed to do a tight 90 degree turn failing which was another similar slope only down hill where the opposite neighbour's shiny Range Rover was parked! There was a degree of 'nipping' going on but we got out absolutely fine, around the local roads and on to the gritted main roads no problem at all. I would've felt more confident with winter tyres but my PS4Ss were great. Had there been any rain fall prior to the snow that had frozen it may have had a different ending however I'm not so sure winters would've necessarily helped if that'd been the case.
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Its not about snow or ice though is it?
Its about the chemical reaction grip the tyre gets with the actual road surface at lower temperatures.
Winter tyres aren't nobblies or studded.... they are just made from a different rubber compound with a lower reactive temperature.
If the road surface is covered in ice or packed snow, the only thing that will made a difference is an offroad or studded tyre.
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You can always rely on a winter tyres thread to divide opinion.
Yep, untwist your panties people! Respect other peoples' circumstances and opinions. :angry: :grin:
On my way home late last nigh it was -3C. Tescos car park was like a skating rink. I was walking like a penguin. Car was fine on the ice. Winter tyres do work on ice :cool:
I absolutely hated driving my car in these conditions last year, without winter tyres. It was sliding all over the place on PS4 tyres.
Knowing just how good winter tyres are - I would never want my wife to be without them on her car no matter how mild the winter is.
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I'd be going with a cross climate instead of a full winter. We have more cold weather with wet conditions than snow so a full winter isn't really necessary (that's in the North East of England anyway).
It depends were in the North East you live, how far from a local council depo, how close to a council boarder, how close to a main road, gritting route you are. I live over 310 metre above sea level. I use to work at Walker. Its a different climate down there to home. I can have 6" of snow at home and travel a couple miles down the road and theres nothing! I have winters on one car and all weather on another. The one with winters doesn't seam to bat an eyelid for anything only once stoped simply because the snow was that deap it lifted it off its wheels. The all weathers have lost traction at times and don't have the same reassurances of grip on snow and ice.
I guess it drpends on many factors which is best for an individual and there circumstances.
Was -10 here this morning.
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Its not about snow or ice though is it?
Its about the chemical reaction grip the tyre gets with the actual road surface at lower temperatures.
Winter tyres aren't nobblies or studded.... they are just made from a different rubber compound with a lower reactive temperature.
If the road surface is covered in ice or packed snow, the only thing that will made a difference is an offroad or studded tyre.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s)
https://www.bmwblog.com/2018/11/20/video-summer-tires-vs-winter-tires-bmw-x1-xdrive-vs-bmw-x1-sdrive/ (https://www.bmwblog.com/2018/11/20/video-summer-tires-vs-winter-tires-bmw-x1-xdrive-vs-bmw-x1-sdrive/)
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Fitted these to my R Estate a coupe of weeks ago, Revo RV018 and Continental TS850P, offer loads of confidence and grip compared to Pretorias and P Zero tyres when the temps drop.
How do you find those winter tyres? I couldn't decide between them or the new Verdestein Wintrac Pro.
I opted for the Verdestein as I thought they might be slightly sharper. It took a few hundred miles for them to bed in. Or maybe I just got used to them. Hard to know if I made the right choice. :undecided:
I know the standard TS850 on my wife's car are excellent. Though it already has soft steering on 16 inch tyres.
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Summer tyres don't work in freezing temperatures with snow and ice? I'm, shocked!
I must admit when I saw the title I thought "bet it's running summer tyres"
30k+ car and people risk it by using summer tyres in snow. Mind blowing and a danger to other road users.
It's funny how the majority have managed just fine for years and years on one set of tyres but all of a sudden everyone jumps on the bandwagon and then it's frowned upon for not using winter tyres. They aren't always necessary for every part of the country and I think to be fair drivers with winter tyres on have an over inflated sense of safety thinking they'll be saved much like 4 wheel drive drivers too (not everyone :wink:)
I think it was the winter of 2010 I used a little 2wd Daihatsu with its regular 155 tyres. Only thing i noticed moving on the roads that winter was me and small 4WDs.
The reason it managed and we managed for years was simply there was no such thing as eco tyres, summer tyres or sports tyres. Just normal or winter. The increased width of modern car tyres is also a big issue in snow and ice due to the shape of the contact area. I managed perfectly well for 20+ years with 'normal tyres' but then most cars until the past 10 years have had modest tyre widths of about 185 you get bigger than that on a supermini now.
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I'd be going with a cross climate instead of a full winter. We have more cold weather with wet conditions than snow so a full winter isn't really necessary (that's in the North East of England anyway).
It depends were in the North East you live, how far from a local council depo, how close to a council boarder, how close to a main road, gritting route you are. I live over 310 metre above sea level. I use to work at Walker. Its a different climate down there to home. I can have 6" of snow at home and travel a couple miles down the road and theres nothing! I have winters on one car and all weather on another. The one with winters doesn't seam to bat an eyelid for anything only once stoped simply because the snow was that deap it lifted it off its wheels. The all weathers have lost traction at times and don't have the same reassurances of grip on snow and ice.
I guess it drpends on many factors which is best for an individual and there circumstances.
Was -10 here this morning.
All season tyres are a compromise. Not as good as summer tyres in the summer. Not as safe as winter tyres on snow and ice. However, all season tyres are much better than summer tyres on snow and ice.
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Is this a bad time to say I'm getting a couple of Goodyear Asymmetric 3's fitted in the next few days lol?
I can (kind of) see both sides of the argument really, however I've never had winter tyres fitted and won't this year.
3 points from the thread I can glean are:-
1. Winters will be better in the... winter (funnily enough)
2. It's still possible to drive on Summers, you just have to go slower
3. There seem to be more and more people on this site that are now of the opinion that their opinion is the only opinion that counts and take proper offence when someone dares to have a different one lol.
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Summer tyres don't work in freezing temperatures with snow and ice? I'm, shocked!
I must admit when I saw the title I thought "bet it's running summer tyres"
30k+ car and people risk it by using summer tyres in snow. Mind blowing and a danger to other road users.
It's funny how the majority have managed just fine for years and years on one set of tyres but all of a sudden everyone jumps on the bandwagon and then it's frowned upon for not using winter tyres. They aren't always necessary for every part of the country and I think to be fair drivers with winter tyres on have an over inflated sense of safety thinking they'll be saved much like 4 wheel drive drivers too (not everyone :wink:)
I think it was the winter of 2010 I used a little 2wd Daihatsu with its regular 155 tyres. Only thing i noticed moving on the roads that winter was me and small 4WDs.
The reason it managed and we managed for years was simply there was no such thing as eco tyres, summer tyres or sports tyres. Just normal or winter. The increased width of modern car tyres is also a big issue in snow and ice due to the shape of the contact area. I managed perfectly well for 20+ years with 'normal tyres' but then most cars until the past 10 years have had modest tyre widths of about 185 you get bigger than that on a supermini now.
Was just thinking the same, my first car a 1964 Mini Cooper S came with wider wheels 4.5" and rarely had any issues.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s)
That was very interesting. I didn't think it would work like that at all!
You learn something new every day!
I did read this though:
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/motoring-issues/winter-tyres-uk-snow-guide/
That's as close to a negative for winter tyres (in the UK) as I have found
"In the snow, winter tyres are a obvious option. They make for safer, more confident driving, and they improve grip significantly – but they’re also a gamble. Sure, we’re in a cold snap now – but on every mild, grey - but not white - day, you’ll have the wrong tyres on your car. And winter tyres aren’t great in normal weather.
Cars can become notoriously unruly on winter boots, with vehicles closer to the performance end of things – like a DB11 AMR, for example – spinning the wheels in fourth.
In snow and cold weather, a seasonal rubber compound, chunkier tread and sypes work well – but they don't behave as they should if it's really mild and above the optimum operating range. We've driven numerous cars shod with winter tyres that have a chunkier ride quality, woollier steering and slippier handling in certain conditions.
It’s a complicated argument and one that comes down to your budget, and the predicted weather for the next few months. In colder countries, getting winter tyres is an easy decision, but in our – not quite arctic but somehow worse – British climate, we can’t even rely on a cold snap."
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s)
That was very interesting. I didn't think it would work like that at all!
You learn something new every day!
I did read this though:
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/motoring-issues/winter-tyres-uk-snow-guide/
That's as close to a negative for winter tyres (in the UK) as I have found
"In the snow, winter tyres are a obvious option. They make for safer, more confident driving, and they improve grip significantly – but they’re also a gamble. Sure, we’re in a cold snap now – but on every mild, grey - but not white - day, you’ll have the wrong tyres on your car. And winter tyres aren’t great in normal weather.
Cars can become notoriously unruly on winter boots, with vehicles closer to the performance end of things – like a DB11 AMR, for example – spinning the wheels in fourth.
In snow and cold weather, a seasonal rubber compound, chunkier tread and sypes work well – but they don't behave as they should if it's really mild and above the optimum operating range. We've driven numerous cars shod with winter tyres that have a chunkier ride quality, woollier steering and slippier handling in certain conditions.
It’s a complicated argument and one that comes down to your budget, and the predicted weather for the next few months. In colder countries, getting winter tyres is an easy decision, but in our – not quite arctic but somehow worse – British climate, we can’t even rely on a cold snap."
I suspect I'd be inclined to agree if I was further South like the writer (as CAR's Peterborough head office would suggest). I've not seen double digit temperatures (while in the car) at all this month. They do wrap up with saying that if your budget allows, that they'd recommend buying them for safety.
Prior to buying my first set of winter tyres, I didn't think they would make an awful lot of difference and that it predominantly came down to driving style and number of driven wheels (plus FWD vs RWD). As those videos demonstrate, that's absolutely not the case and the tyres are a huge factor. Most definitely a case of don't knock them until you've tried them!
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Well said Gnasher! :grin:
Out of interest, how do you DSG FWD owners pull away and gain traction in the snow? Obviously the all conquering superiority complex R drivers (sorry, been spending a bit of time over on VWROC!) have no issues whatsoever ever :laugh:
But jokes aside, I’m curious as an archaic stoic manual driver I know I can usually gain momentum in light snow by using 2nd or 3rd to pull away with minimal if any throttle wearing summer tyres (I live in South Devon near the coast so we very very seldom get snow, even today the forecast heavy snow didn’t materialise and is just driving rain) as I’ve never felt the need to buy winters. I just slow the hell down in very cold weather and keep my distance.
How does a FWD DSG wearing summer tyres pull away in snow?
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I'd be going with a cross climate instead of a full winter. We have more cold weather with wet conditions than snow so a full winter isn't really necessary (that's in the North East of England anyway).
It depends were in the North East you live, how far from a local council depo, how close to a council boarder, how close to a main road, gritting route you are. I live over 310 metre above sea level. I use to work at Walker. Its a different climate down there to home. I can have 6" of snow at home and travel a couple miles down the road and theres nothing! I have winters on one car and all weather on another. The one with winters doesn't seam to bat an eyelid for anything only once stoped simply because the snow was that deap it lifted it off its wheels. The all weathers have lost traction at times and don't have the same reassurances of grip on snow and ice.
I guess it drpends on many factors which is best for an individual and there circumstances.
Was -10 here this morning.
All season tyres are a compromise. Not as good as summer tyres in the summer. Not as safe as winter tyres on snow and ice. However, all season tyres are much better than summer tyres on snow and ice.
The new Bridgestone all season or all weather whatever it's called is classed as a snow tyre so it's hardly a compromise.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s)
That was very interesting. I didn't think it would work like that at all!
You learn something new every day!
I did read this though:
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/motoring-issues/winter-tyres-uk-snow-guide/
That's as close to a negative for winter tyres (in the UK) as I have found
"In the snow, winter tyres are a obvious option. They make for safer, more confident driving, and they improve grip significantly – but they’re also a gamble. Sure, we’re in a cold snap now – but on every mild, grey - but not white - day, you’ll have the wrong tyres on your car. And winter tyres aren’t great in normal weather.
Cars can become notoriously unruly on winter boots, with vehicles closer to the performance end of things – like a DB11 AMR, for example – spinning the wheels in fourth.
In snow and cold weather, a seasonal rubber compound, chunkier tread and sypes work well – but they don't behave as they should if it's really mild and above the optimum operating range. We've driven numerous cars shod with winter tyres that have a chunkier ride quality, woollier steering and slippier handling in certain conditions.
It’s a complicated argument and one that comes down to your budget, and the predicted weather for the next few months. In colder countries, getting winter tyres is an easy decision, but in our – not quite arctic but somehow worse – British climate, we can’t even rely on a cold snap."
Yeah, it is a good video. I first watched it back in 2011. Most good winter tyres have improved in all conditions since then. Many reviews suggest all season tyres have improved even more than winters since then.
As for carmagazine - that is ridiculous! To paraphrase - "Winter tyres WILL wheel spin on an 630hp £150k Aston Martin." No sh!t Sherlock! Seriously! :rolleyes:
How about pointing out how dangerous summer tyres can be on snow and ice! And how many more accidents there are in these conditions! :angry:
I would love to read the comments on how stupid that paragraph is!
(I'm going to untwist my panties, put my toys back in my pram and put my dummy back in.) :embarrassed:
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The new Bridgestone all season or all weather whatever it's called is classed as a snow tyre so it's hardly a compromise.
Are you talking about the Bridgestone Weather Control A005? I looked at them for my parents car. I chose the Michelin for 2 reasons. The Michelin tested as having much better performance on snow and ice. Also, for a little extra money, the Michelin is estimated to have much better wear.
For my parents circumstances, I though the Michelin offered the best compromise of summer vs winter performance in a single tyre.
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Yes that's the one. I'm sure it finished the best of the all weather tyres and was good in the snow too.
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The new Bridgestone all season or all weather whatever it's called is classed as a snow tyre so it's hardly a compromise.
Are you talking about the Bridgestone Weather Control A005? I looked at them for my parents car. I chose the Michelin for 2 reasons. The Michelin tested as having much better performance on snow and ice. Also, for a little extra money, the Michelin is estimated to have much better wear.
For my parents circumstances, I though the Michelin offered the best compromise of summer vs winter performance in a single tyre.
That would be these then?
https://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Bridgestone/Weather-Control-A005.htm
They look like a decent Jack-of-all-trades tyre, but as you say the snow and ice performance isn't up there with that of a full winter tyre, and that's unfortunately where the compromise is. Still better on the snow and ice than a summer tyre though...
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From the tyrereview.co.uk website -
Bridgestone Weather Control A005 -
Positive - Dynamic wet and dry handling, shortest braking distances on wet and dry roads.
Negative - Poor winter performance on snow and ice.
I guess the question really is - in your circumstances - under which conditions do think grip from tyres is most important? How often do you experience these conditions? In which conditions are you most likely to have an accident? Dry roads, wet roads or roads covered in snow and ice?
Dry roads and wet roads don't bother me. I have plenty of experience of how treacherous snow and ice can be.
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How does a FWD DSG wearing summer tyres pull away in snow?
Presumably a lot better than an automatic BMW or merc...
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Let's have it right. 90% of drivers haven't got a clue about stopping distances in the dry let alone stopping distances in the snow. If it was mandatory to use winter tyres in this country like it is in many European countries there'd be less accidents in adverse weather. But hey it only snows once a year right.
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Summer tyres don't work in freezing temperatures with snow and ice? I'm, shocked!
I must admit when I saw the title I thought "bet it's running summer tyres"
30k+ car and people risk it by using summer tyres in snow. Mind blowing and a danger to other road users.
A danger to other road users eh ! What an arrogant prick !
So it's not dangerous using summer tyres in snow then?
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Summer tyres don't work in freezing temperatures with snow and ice? I'm, shocked!
I must admit when I saw the title I thought "bet it's running summer tyres"
30k+ car and people risk it by using summer tyres in snow. Mind blowing and a danger to other road users.
A danger to other road users eh ! What an arrogant prick !
So it's not dangerous using summer tyres in snow then?
I've managed up to now with no accidents :whistle:
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Snow problems on the Bridgestones.... :grin:
(https://i.postimg.cc/w3Yz8FKB/17-AE7-ED0-E11-C-4464-A180-C51-B036-ABCE4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vxhk5rZR)
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Let's have it right. 90% of drivers haven't got a clue about stopping distances in the dry let alone stopping distances in the snow. If it was mandatory to use winter tyres in this country like it is in many European countries there'd be less accidents in adverse weather. But hey it only snows once a year right.
The article I quoted earlier tells you why they'd never make it law... UK weather just isn't cold enough continuously.
How many of you change your tyres depending on the weather before you leave each day?
On a warm day aren't you being irresponsible? (joke... Sort of)
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Late November to early March temperatures average 7°c or below. Winter tyres work best at these temperatures.
We all want tyres that give us good grip when it's nice and warm so why wouldn't we want the same when it's cold, wet and horrible?
Also on the rare occasion it does snow I want to be able to get on with my life and not spend hours pissing about wheel spinning and getting nowhere. And if I need to make a sudden stop I stand more of a chance wearing my winter shoes.
It's cost me just shy of £370 for tyres and fitting and they'll last me years, not only that it saves me wearing down the PS4's.
No brainer for me.
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Snow problems on the Bridgestones.... :grin:
(https://i.postimg.cc/w3Yz8FKB/17-AE7-ED0-E11-C-4464-A180-C51-B036-ABCE4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vxhk5rZR)
That looks so cool :whistle:
Actually, if the police see a car like that it's a fixed penalty. Did you see the car in Scotland?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-47040584
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Snow problems on the Bridgestones.... :grin:
(https://i.postimg.cc/w3Yz8FKB/17-AE7-ED0-E11-C-4464-A180-C51-B036-ABCE4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vxhk5rZR)
That looks so cool :whistle:
Actually, if the police see a car like that it's a fixed penalty. Did you see the car in Scotland?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-47040584
Shouldn't laugh, but LOL. That deserves a fixed penalty just for pure stupidity. I wouldn't even attempt to back my car off the drive in that state, never mind drive it down the road.
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https://youtu.be/2cgtmmtsqFA
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How does a FWD DSG wearing summer tyres pull away in snow?
ESP off, initially let the wheels spin, then come off the throttle. As the revs drop as the torque drops off, wheels will move a little, before it stops do it again and repeate until there is enough momemtum to keep rolling. If there is a corner or obstacal ahead, just hope and pray that your summer tyres will steer you around it, rather than slip and slide you into something hard.
Having successfully negotiated all hazzards in a manner that you have for the last 30 years without too many problems, return home and fire up your computer. Use ebay to buy a second hand set of OEM wheels and whilst you are waiting for them to arrive, ring round your trusted tyre dealers and see what winter tyres they have in stock. No need to spend £150 each on what the magazines or internet experts tell you you must have, 'lesser' brands will do just as good a job providing that you drive according to the conditions. Let's face it, there's no need to do a Sunday morning B road blast just because the roads have dried and warmed up, so your new winter tyres will do just fine for what the motor car was designed to do. Getting you from A to B.
Leave your winter wheel package on until the spring, give them a clean and store them away until the next Novemberish time. When you have done with them, or sell the car, simply sell on your wheels and get your initial money back. Granted, you won't get any money back for worn out, secondhand winter tyres, but then they will have done their job, as well as saving your best summer tyres from wearing out too.
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How does a FWD DSG wearing summer tyres pull away in snow?
How does a FWD DSG wearing winter tyres pull away in snow?…………………………………You just pull away :grin:
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... ring round your trusted tyre dealers and see what winter tyres they have in stock. No need to spend £150 each on what the magazines or internet experts tell you you must have, 'lesser' brands will do just as good a job providing that you drive according to the conditions.
The issue is - are 'lesser brand' winter tyres the same as 'no name, ditch finders'.
I am no expert, but I do read the reviews and have some experience. My first winter tyres were not good at all in warm wet weather - 215/55/R16 Goodyear Ultragrip 7. My wife had the same tyres and she had the same experience/view. Her current winter tyre is excellent in all weather conditions - Continental WinterContact TS850. She was even driving around one spring in temps above 20C before I remembered the winter tyres needed changed.
Many reviews point out that cheap winter tyres perform poorly in mild weather conditions. I just don't think it is worth going to the bother of fitting winter tyres for safety. Then end up with a car with far greater stopping distances in warm and/or wet conditions. Sorry, 'no name, ditch finders' are not for me. And definitely not for my wife's car.
Tyres are possibly the most important performance feature of any car. I would always buy the best tyres I can afford.