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Model specific boards => Golf mk1 => Topic started by: abcdefghijklmnopqr on 11 October 2005, 13:38

Title: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: abcdefghijklmnopqr on 11 October 2005, 13:38
Any thoughts on putting an Mi16 in a mk1? Besides the extreme difficulty of the wiring. Best 16valver out there.
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: Len on 11 October 2005, 13:48
F*CKING SACRILEDGE! I say!  Go hang your head in shame! :evil:

Yes it is the best 16valver but its best left in a great car - the 405!!! :angry:

 :wink:

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: sportline_velly on 11 October 2005, 14:07
Mi16 the 'best' 16v!??!?!

nah, wot about the red top vauxhall lump? 150bhp 150lb-ft :evil:

Mi16 160bhp 135lb-ft


Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: BobbyT on 11 October 2005, 14:33
yeah the red top rocks, got wasted by a mk2 16v Astra a few months back off the lights! felt rather stupid tbh! lol  :smiley:
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: BobbyT on 11 October 2005, 14:35
what about the engine mounts? think the manifold and down pipe are to the rear in the pug, also what about the gear box? think you would need to do alot of work and get alot of one off parts made, then theres all the wiring, but hey, if you have got the time and know how plus the cash! why not! would get in a mag if it worked i would think!  :smiley:
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: sportline_velly on 11 October 2005, 14:55
there was a guy who used to post on the yahoo groups (years and years ago) who had a mk1 golf with a rep top in (chris marr i think his name was)

that thing was nippy

he was from bonny scotland
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: Len on 13 October 2005, 13:26
The Mi16 engine is the best 16v - FACT!

It has the largest valves of all the 16 valvers and therefore can be tuned far more than any other - 300bhp is easily possible.
Just need a wedge of cash!!!!
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: sportline_velly on 13 October 2005, 14:03
just cos it got big valves dont make it the best spa.


give us proof.


Plus, if Mi16's was soooo good wouldnt people be fitting them in kit car and not red tops or z-tec's?


sorry i am an x-pug boy (once owning a Mi16x4) and i think the red top motor is far far better IMO
it has more power as std.
and you can get 240 bhp on iTB's ( u dont see my n/a vw's breaking 200bhp!)
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: Bronze MK1 Cab on 13 October 2005, 17:08
Er, I'm a bit lost with all this pug talk  :huh: :grin:
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: hc-animal on 15 October 2005, 14:25
mi16   good motor with alloy block so super light but its fcuking french. in touring car spec produced in excess of 300bhp
c20xe (red top) good tuneble motor for decent cash. got one in my hillclimb car and it produces 245bhp with not much cash spent. also 300bhp plus possible.
vw 16v the right engine to go in a mk1 but by far the least tuneable. never did touring cars!
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: wag,en,volks on 15 October 2005, 15:13
You could fit a 2.0 16v vw engine and supercharge or turbo it for the price/time/agro it would take to fit the mi16 engine and you wouldnt end up with a car that no one wanted  :huh:
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: Mr V Wagon on 15 October 2005, 17:31
Mi16 the 'best' 16v!??!?!

nah, wot about the red top vauxhall lump? 150bhp 150lb-ft :evil:

Mi16 160bhp 135lb-ft



And the 16v Fiat Therma engine. These three are probably the best N/A engines ever made
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: Mr V Wagon on 15 October 2005, 17:41
vw 16v the right engine to go in a mk1 but by far the least tuneable
In all fairness, the VW 16v cylinder head is a very poor design. If you compare the flow rates with that of an XE head - the VW head looks very silly. Did you know VW couldn't design a 16v head? They got an Italian company to do it.

The flow rates of the VW 20v(based on the Yamaha R1 engine) engine is far better than the VW 16v, especially in the higher rev range.

The initial batch of 2.0 XEs came from Cosworth. Vauxhall had overheating problems and gave the design to Cossie to sort out. They, basically, drilled one coolant gallery though the head and gave it back! lol! The first batch had all the cossie stuff - valves, guides, casting etc. The rest were duplicated by Vauxhall and aren't as good quality.

Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: Mr V Wagon on 20 October 2005, 21:37
Sorry boys, didn't mean to kill the thread :laugh:
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: HARDCOR3 on 20 October 2005, 21:41
Any thoughts on putting an Mi16 in a mk1? Besides the extreme difficulty of the wiring. Best 16valver out there.

wiring the loom of an mi-16 in is a peice of piss, and only involves 3 wires, live, ign live and earth....

heres 1 i prepared earlier..
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a332/hardcor3_/carpics005.jpg)

Top engine, my 205 killed most things on the road, including my VR, was the fastest car i've owned and stuck to the road like sh!t on a blanket
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: kins888 on 21 October 2005, 23:10
Hey MrV.... what about Steves old chesnut....... Fiat/Lancia Twin cam? He is right in a way.......

A recent quote " Fiat/Lancia Twin cam - all the way!! Come on people - you can pick them up in a complete running Thema Turbo 16v for £200 and they are the same as the Delta Integrale engines - remap, cam change and there is 300bhp - start doing more work and the sky is litterally the limit."

Tempting hey.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: Mr V Wagon on 22 October 2005, 18:36
Hello kins! :smiley:

Yep, he's right in a way but on the 'dub scene' people tend to stick with VAG parts. If you talk about putting a XE in a Mini - it's a good idea, but a non-VAG engine into a VAG car - it's looked down upon. That's probably why second hand VAG engines are more expensive than other make alternatives!? lol!
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: kins888 on 23 October 2005, 18:38
This is true... thats why I'm sticking with my plan..... keep it simple and VAG 2.0 8v I'm hoping for 160+ which will be plenty in a mk1. I keep meaning to ask you what gearbox do you thinks best? I was thinking 1.6 gti box for quick 0-100 times but do you think it will put the power down ok? hmmmm? :undecided:
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: sportline_velly on 27 October 2005, 12:14
This is true... thats why I'm sticking with my plan..... keep it simple and VAG 2.0 8v I'm hoping for 160+ which will be plenty in a mk1. I keep meaning to ask you what gearbox do you thinks best? I was thinking 1.6 gti box for quick 0-100 times but do you think it will put the power down ok? hmmmm? :undecided:


160+bhp from an 8v, just how are you planning on that?
iTB's?

150ish is about max for a k-jet 8v TBH
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: RYoungMK1GTI on 27 October 2005, 16:25
if you put a pug engine or in fact ne other non vw engine in a MK1 you should be castrated and thrown off a cliff, if you do it and i see it at a meet ill take a slash in the engine bay. you idiot.

plus the mitsu 16v engines are an awesome 16v engine, but can get expensive if you dont have a contact who can get cheap sh!t, i used to work there ya see.

lets all find out where len405 lives and and take his mk1 off him.
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: rabbit_mk1 on 01 November 2005, 23:17
This is true... thats why I'm sticking with my plan..... keep it simple and VAG 2.0 8v I'm hoping for 160+ which will be plenty in a mk1. I keep meaning to ask you what gearbox do you thinks best? I was thinking 1.6 gti box for quick 0-100 times but do you think it will put the power down ok? hmmmm? :undecided:


160+bhp from an 8v, just how are you planning on that?
iTB's?

150ish is about max for a k-jet 8v TBH

My old donnington 1900 on k-jet made 149bhp at TSR (whose rollers are 'conservative' from what I understand) with a really mild cam - it was reckoned I would have had another 10bhp straight away had I bought i better cam, add that to a 2.0L bottom end and that should have given 165+bhp.... I bought a 183bhp ABF and stuck that in - job done, and with cams and a flowed head hopefully 195bhp if i'm lucky :wink:

If you're going to put 16valves into a mk1... keep it VAG I say!
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: Mr V Wagon on 04 November 2005, 19:49
160+bhp from an 8v, just how are you planning on that?
iTB's?

150ish is about max for a k-jet 8v TBH
K-jet is actually good for about 200bhp, the VW non-cross flow 8v head isn't.

As Rabbit said, with a good head and cam 160+ is possible. Didn't you do a 16v shoot out, velly? How many cars got into the 14s on the 1/4 mile? How many were capable of a 14.6? My 8v got a 14.6 the first time i went to Pod and i got that time on the 3rd attempt out of 4, without a LSD and on budgets. Not bad for a 2.0 8v on K-jet. It's being RR'd on the 27th.

Watch this space...
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: sportline_velly on 07 November 2005, 09:50
sorry for the delaid replay, ive been away with no interent :(

yes i do hold 16v shoot outs and ive been to many RR shoot outs all over the place and ive never seen a 8v (N/A) get over 160 bhp...well, apart from @ TRS but ive seen one car run 144@ wheels @ TSR, a week later have it run @ stealth and makes 150@ fly!! (that was a 2.1 8v)

yes k-jet is good for 200 bhp but only in 16v form not 8v TBH there isnt many 16v running 200, most are about mid 180ish mark

a guy had a x-flow 2.0 8v on iTB's on the clubgti forum and i think he only got 168bhp (but shed loads of torque ;) )

Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: Mr V Wagon on 07 November 2005, 21:06
I'll keep you posted on my 8v results mate :smiley:
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: sportline_velly on 08 November 2005, 07:58
defo mate, it good to know a few good 8v's are still out there. my mate has just built a 2.0 8v mk1 and that thing in nuts!
I cant wait to see how it goes on the track against the 16v clarts  :cool:
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: Mr V Wagon on 26 November 2005, 19:39
Velly, lets put this on the back shelf for now, mate. It's due to some seriously crap results  :embarassed:
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: dubburke on 26 November 2005, 21:19
sorry for the delaid replay, ive been away with no interent :(

yes i do hold 16v shoot outs and ive been to many RR shoot outs all over the place and ive never seen a 8v (N/A) get over 160 bhp...well, apart from @ TRS but ive seen one car run 144@ wheels @ TSR, a week later have it run @ stealth and makes 150@ fly!! (that was a 2.1 8v)

yes k-jet is good for 200 bhp but only in 16v form not 8v TBH there isnt many 16v running 200, most are about mid 180ish mark

a guy had a x-flow 2.0 8v on iTB's on the clubgti forum and i think he only got 168bhp (but shed loads of torque ;) )

175 BHP MAX  on a kjet 8 valve set up IMO


Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: Mr V Wagon on 05 February 2006, 17:40
Alright lads? :cool:

I went to TSR yesterday and got 130 at the wheels. Neil at TSR reckons you lose up to about 35bhp through transmission - that would be 165bhp! I'm well chuffed :grin: I don't think the engine has got more to give but it's running like a peach! The gbox is going to get ATB'd then i'll be shaving off some tenths at Santa Pod!

See you y'all at the Spring Festival? :smiley:
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: BobbyT on 08 February 2006, 04:56
what engine are you running bro? ^^^^^^^  :smiley:
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: Mr V Wagon on 08 February 2006, 21:52
Hello funky! :cool:

It's a 2.0 8v :wink:
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: mk2_singh on 10 February 2006, 21:30

you will find the nissan SR16VE N1 produced 197hp @ 7800rpm / 134lb torque @ 7600rpm

and its bigger brother the SR20VE produced 187hp @ 7000rpm / 145lb torque @ 6000rpm

and throw a turbo on that SR20VET produces 276hp @ 6400rpm / 228lb torque @ 3200rpm


hows that for a 16v motor?  :grin: in good old jap there are micras flying around with these VVL lumps quite a popular weapon of choice for a jap pocket rocket  :laugh:

(http://www.floridasr20s.com/gallery/albums/NX2000/DSC03647.jpg)
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: Logie on 15 February 2006, 21:54
The Jap motors aint great for torque.

Its simple. The Mi16 and Redtop and great tuneable engines. But you will get better BHP per £Â£ from the Redtop

 Good thing about the Mi16 engine is the head, its got the potential for alot of work for massive valves which means everything in reality. The more air/petrol that gets in the faster your going to go. But, i would still take the Redtop.

*Example*: Redtop £1000 could get 240 BHP. Mi16 £2800 could get 280BHP
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: Mr V Wagon on 16 February 2006, 20:51
Logie, don't forget the mighty Cosworth YB lump too :wink: That's also a top engine with great potential :cool:
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: alan293 on 24 February 2006, 13:19
I used to have Corsa 1.6 GSi 16v, that car was an absolute pocket rocket. Used to corner on rails!!! Maybe even better that my MK1 Gti. Then I got a Vectra GSi 2.5V6 24v, that used to pull like a train would pull well over 100mph in 3rd uphill! Cant knock a performance Vauxhaul engine.

Got no knowledge of French other than renault, and have only experience 8v VW's which are great!
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: g60 matt on 24 February 2006, 14:15
mi16 are crap, quiet a alot of my mates have them in 205's iv had one aswell. they have next to no torque blow 4k, you need mega money to get any power, 200 hp is a resonable amount of work plus you cant nail a left hand corner as you'll get massive oil surge and blow the engine. and they all have loads of miles on and are a night mare to get to work properly for any length of time.
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: richy_b on 09 March 2006, 23:44
well i dont think you know your mi16's very well then, i had a 405mi16 which had over 160k on the clock and it never have me any trouble!
mind you, i do agree that to get over 200 bhp without spending in excess of 3k and keeping it n/a is a hard task, im going to pick up a near race speck mi in the morning, we are only hoping for around 220 bhp but that will be on carbs and not itb's.
plus its like running a 1.8t in a mk1, its all good having loads of bhp but without a good transmission set up you find yourself getting bored of  tyres being left behind you on the road.
Title: Re: Mi16 in a mk1
Post by: Devon Joe on 10 March 2006, 00:18
Sod the four figure tune ups and arguing over the best 16v- lets go for the cheapest performance upgrade...£67 for an entire Audi Quattro 16v, chucked engine into the Mk2 and everything else went on FeeBay...kerching!! :laugh: