GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk1 => Topic started by: abcdefghijklmnopqr on 11 October 2005, 13:38
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Any thoughts on putting an Mi16 in a mk1? Besides the extreme difficulty of the wiring. Best 16valver out there.
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F*CKING SACRILEDGE! I say! Go hang your head in shame! :evil:
Yes it is the best 16valver but its best left in a great car - the 405!!! :angry:
:wink:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Mi16 the 'best' 16v!??!?!
nah, wot about the red top vauxhall lump? 150bhp 150lb-ft :evil:
Mi16 160bhp 135lb-ft
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yeah the red top rocks, got wasted by a mk2 16v Astra a few months back off the lights! felt rather stupid tbh! lol :smiley:
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what about the engine mounts? think the manifold and down pipe are to the rear in the pug, also what about the gear box? think you would need to do alot of work and get alot of one off parts made, then theres all the wiring, but hey, if you have got the time and know how plus the cash! why not! would get in a mag if it worked i would think! :smiley:
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there was a guy who used to post on the yahoo groups (years and years ago) who had a mk1 golf with a rep top in (chris marr i think his name was)
that thing was nippy
he was from bonny scotland
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The Mi16 engine is the best 16v - FACT!
It has the largest valves of all the 16 valvers and therefore can be tuned far more than any other - 300bhp is easily possible.
Just need a wedge of cash!!!!
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just cos it got big valves dont make it the best spa.
give us proof.
Plus, if Mi16's was soooo good wouldnt people be fitting them in kit car and not red tops or z-tec's?
sorry i am an x-pug boy (once owning a Mi16x4) and i think the red top motor is far far better IMO
it has more power as std.
and you can get 240 bhp on iTB's ( u dont see my n/a vw's breaking 200bhp!)
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Er, I'm a bit lost with all this pug talk :huh: :grin:
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mi16 good motor with alloy block so super light but its fcuking french. in touring car spec produced in excess of 300bhp
c20xe (red top) good tuneble motor for decent cash. got one in my hillclimb car and it produces 245bhp with not much cash spent. also 300bhp plus possible.
vw 16v the right engine to go in a mk1 but by far the least tuneable. never did touring cars!
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You could fit a 2.0 16v vw engine and supercharge or turbo it for the price/time/agro it would take to fit the mi16 engine and you wouldnt end up with a car that no one wanted :huh:
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Mi16 the 'best' 16v!??!?!
nah, wot about the red top vauxhall lump? 150bhp 150lb-ft :evil:
Mi16 160bhp 135lb-ft
And the 16v Fiat Therma engine. These three are probably the best N/A engines ever made
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vw 16v the right engine to go in a mk1 but by far the least tuneable
In all fairness, the VW 16v cylinder head is a very poor design. If you compare the flow rates with that of an XE head - the VW head looks very silly. Did you know VW couldn't design a 16v head? They got an Italian company to do it.
The flow rates of the VW 20v(based on the Yamaha R1 engine) engine is far better than the VW 16v, especially in the higher rev range.
The initial batch of 2.0 XEs came from Cosworth. Vauxhall had overheating problems and gave the design to Cossie to sort out. They, basically, drilled one coolant gallery though the head and gave it back! lol! The first batch had all the cossie stuff - valves, guides, casting etc. The rest were duplicated by Vauxhall and aren't as good quality.
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Sorry boys, didn't mean to kill the thread :laugh:
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Any thoughts on putting an Mi16 in a mk1? Besides the extreme difficulty of the wiring. Best 16valver out there.
wiring the loom of an mi-16 in is a peice of piss, and only involves 3 wires, live, ign live and earth....
heres 1 i prepared earlier..
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a332/hardcor3_/carpics005.jpg)
Top engine, my 205 killed most things on the road, including my VR, was the fastest car i've owned and stuck to the road like sh!t on a blanket
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Hey MrV.... what about Steves old chesnut....... Fiat/Lancia Twin cam? He is right in a way.......
A recent quote " Fiat/Lancia Twin cam - all the way!! Come on people - you can pick them up in a complete running Thema Turbo 16v for £200 and they are the same as the Delta Integrale engines - remap, cam change and there is 300bhp - start doing more work and the sky is litterally the limit."
Tempting hey. :rolleyes:
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Hello kins! :smiley:
Yep, he's right in a way but on the 'dub scene' people tend to stick with VAG parts. If you talk about putting a XE in a Mini - it's a good idea, but a non-VAG engine into a VAG car - it's looked down upon. That's probably why second hand VAG engines are more expensive than other make alternatives!? lol!
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This is true... thats why I'm sticking with my plan..... keep it simple and VAG 2.0 8v I'm hoping for 160+ which will be plenty in a mk1. I keep meaning to ask you what gearbox do you thinks best? I was thinking 1.6 gti box for quick 0-100 times but do you think it will put the power down ok? hmmmm? :undecided:
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This is true... thats why I'm sticking with my plan..... keep it simple and VAG 2.0 8v I'm hoping for 160+ which will be plenty in a mk1. I keep meaning to ask you what gearbox do you thinks best? I was thinking 1.6 gti box for quick 0-100 times but do you think it will put the power down ok? hmmmm? :undecided:
160+bhp from an 8v, just how are you planning on that?
iTB's?
150ish is about max for a k-jet 8v TBH
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if you put a pug engine or in fact ne other non vw engine in a MK1 you should be castrated and thrown off a cliff, if you do it and i see it at a meet ill take a slash in the engine bay. you idiot.
plus the mitsu 16v engines are an awesome 16v engine, but can get expensive if you dont have a contact who can get cheap sh!t, i used to work there ya see.
lets all find out where len405 lives and and take his mk1 off him.
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This is true... thats why I'm sticking with my plan..... keep it simple and VAG 2.0 8v I'm hoping for 160+ which will be plenty in a mk1. I keep meaning to ask you what gearbox do you thinks best? I was thinking 1.6 gti box for quick 0-100 times but do you think it will put the power down ok? hmmmm? :undecided:
160+bhp from an 8v, just how are you planning on that?
iTB's?
150ish is about max for a k-jet 8v TBH
My old donnington 1900 on k-jet made 149bhp at TSR (whose rollers are 'conservative' from what I understand) with a really mild cam - it was reckoned I would have had another 10bhp straight away had I bought i better cam, add that to a 2.0L bottom end and that should have given 165+bhp.... I bought a 183bhp ABF and stuck that in - job done, and with cams and a flowed head hopefully 195bhp if i'm lucky :wink:
If you're going to put 16valves into a mk1... keep it VAG I say!
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160+bhp from an 8v, just how are you planning on that?
iTB's?
150ish is about max for a k-jet 8v TBH
K-jet is actually good for about 200bhp, the VW non-cross flow 8v head isn't.
As Rabbit said, with a good head and cam 160+ is possible. Didn't you do a 16v shoot out, velly? How many cars got into the 14s on the 1/4 mile? How many were capable of a 14.6? My 8v got a 14.6 the first time i went to Pod and i got that time on the 3rd attempt out of 4, without a LSD and on budgets. Not bad for a 2.0 8v on K-jet. It's being RR'd on the 27th.
Watch this space...
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sorry for the delaid replay, ive been away with no interent :(
yes i do hold 16v shoot outs and ive been to many RR shoot outs all over the place and ive never seen a 8v (N/A) get over 160 bhp...well, apart from @ TRS but ive seen one car run 144@ wheels @ TSR, a week later have it run @ stealth and makes 150@ fly!! (that was a 2.1 8v)
yes k-jet is good for 200 bhp but only in 16v form not 8v TBH there isnt many 16v running 200, most are about mid 180ish mark
a guy had a x-flow 2.0 8v on iTB's on the clubgti forum and i think he only got 168bhp (but shed loads of torque ;) )
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I'll keep you posted on my 8v results mate :smiley:
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defo mate, it good to know a few good 8v's are still out there. my mate has just built a 2.0 8v mk1 and that thing in nuts!
I cant wait to see how it goes on the track against the 16v clarts :cool:
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Velly, lets put this on the back shelf for now, mate. It's due to some seriously crap results :embarassed:
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sorry for the delaid replay, ive been away with no interent :(
yes i do hold 16v shoot outs and ive been to many RR shoot outs all over the place and ive never seen a 8v (N/A) get over 160 bhp...well, apart from @ TRS but ive seen one car run 144@ wheels @ TSR, a week later have it run @ stealth and makes 150@ fly!! (that was a 2.1 8v)
yes k-jet is good for 200 bhp but only in 16v form not 8v TBH there isnt many 16v running 200, most are about mid 180ish mark
a guy had a x-flow 2.0 8v on iTB's on the clubgti forum and i think he only got 168bhp (but shed loads of torque ;) )
175 BHP MAX on a kjet 8 valve set up IMO
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Alright lads? :cool:
I went to TSR yesterday and got 130 at the wheels. Neil at TSR reckons you lose up to about 35bhp through transmission - that would be 165bhp! I'm well chuffed :grin: I don't think the engine has got more to give but it's running like a peach! The gbox is going to get ATB'd then i'll be shaving off some tenths at Santa Pod!
See you y'all at the Spring Festival? :smiley:
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what engine are you running bro? ^^^^^^^ :smiley:
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Hello funky! :cool:
It's a 2.0 8v :wink:
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you will find the nissan SR16VE N1 produced 197hp @ 7800rpm / 134lb torque @ 7600rpm
and its bigger brother the SR20VE produced 187hp @ 7000rpm / 145lb torque @ 6000rpm
and throw a turbo on that SR20VET produces 276hp @ 6400rpm / 228lb torque @ 3200rpm
hows that for a 16v motor? :grin: in good old jap there are micras flying around with these VVL lumps quite a popular weapon of choice for a jap pocket rocket :laugh:
(http://www.floridasr20s.com/gallery/albums/NX2000/DSC03647.jpg)
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The Jap motors aint great for torque.
Its simple. The Mi16 and Redtop and great tuneable engines. But you will get better BHP per £Â£ from the Redtop
Good thing about the Mi16 engine is the head, its got the potential for alot of work for massive valves which means everything in reality. The more air/petrol that gets in the faster your going to go. But, i would still take the Redtop.
*Example*: Redtop £1000 could get 240 BHP. Mi16 £2800 could get 280BHP
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Logie, don't forget the mighty Cosworth YB lump too :wink: That's also a top engine with great potential :cool:
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I used to have Corsa 1.6 GSi 16v, that car was an absolute pocket rocket. Used to corner on rails!!! Maybe even better that my MK1 Gti. Then I got a Vectra GSi 2.5V6 24v, that used to pull like a train would pull well over 100mph in 3rd uphill! Cant knock a performance Vauxhaul engine.
Got no knowledge of French other than renault, and have only experience 8v VW's which are great!
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mi16 are crap, quiet a alot of my mates have them in 205's iv had one aswell. they have next to no torque blow 4k, you need mega money to get any power, 200 hp is a resonable amount of work plus you cant nail a left hand corner as you'll get massive oil surge and blow the engine. and they all have loads of miles on and are a night mare to get to work properly for any length of time.
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well i dont think you know your mi16's very well then, i had a 405mi16 which had over 160k on the clock and it never have me any trouble!
mind you, i do agree that to get over 200 bhp without spending in excess of 3k and keeping it n/a is a hard task, im going to pick up a near race speck mi in the morning, we are only hoping for around 220 bhp but that will be on carbs and not itb's.
plus its like running a 1.8t in a mk1, its all good having loads of bhp but without a good transmission set up you find yourself getting bored of tyres being left behind you on the road.
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Sod the four figure tune ups and arguing over the best 16v- lets go for the cheapest performance upgrade...£67 for an entire Audi Quattro 16v, chucked engine into the Mk2 and everything else went on FeeBay...kerching!! :laugh: