GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: Ikura on 07 August 2018, 17:58
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Hi Guys,
Having decided that the current GTD is our last one we will be ordering a GTi or R in the next couple of weeks.
The lead times on both cars is pretty long but we can extend our GTD lease month by month so it isn't a big problem.
We just can not decide on which car is the best to have as a long term buy, as in 6+ years or so.
Leasing has become expensive now we have de-registered for VAT and it actually works out about the same to buy the car as it does to lease it and there will always be some residual value in the car we buy so it's a no-brainer really.
My wife likes the DSG Golf R but while I like it, I have always driven manual cars, apart from a Tiguan that I really didn't like at all, especially round country roads. I thought the manual GTi was a much nicer car to drive, but then she thinks I drive too fast anyway.
Anyone fancy offering some advice, even if it's rude?
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Can you even order a GTi at the minute? Might be worth checking the lead times due to WLTP cross over.
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We can all tell you which car we prefer. But if you want a manual then GTI is the only option.
What are the main criteria besides gearbox?
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We have been quoted 17/18 week delivery on either car by a couple of VW dealers.
I guess my question is how reliable is a DSG gearbox over a long term ownership? Apart from preferring a manual car I am happy to have a DSG if it keeps the peace in the house. I just prefer to drive a manual but can adapt.
Not looking at hot rod driving or madly thrashing a car up the motorway but we live in a rural area and I drive to the airfield I fly from regularly so the Golf GTD is perfect for whipping past slow drivers without worrying that I won't make it and having done exactly the same drive a couple of times in the GTi and R I just know I will use the power now and then.
I must admit the R was very sure footed and it was the most grippy car I have ever driven. The GTi felt lighter and perhaps more nimble and didn't seem to lack much speed when compared with the R. The GTi was also quieter and felt more silky to drive, where the R was more grunty and felt like it wanted to go quick to feel as settled as the GTi.
I don't know if this makes much sense and I do know either car will be good to own.
Long term ownership? I just don't know which is best.
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Only you can say what you want!
If you want a manual R perhaps the dealer network will have one somewhere either unregistered or minimal miles? But if your wife thinks you drive the GTD too fast, what will she make of an R? :laugh:
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I have an R and have driven my sisters GTI, its not a PP one so that might make a difference. I have found that i prefer the R over the GTI the reasons are: Traffic light starts in the rain are amazing in the R, the front wheel spin in the GTI over a round about was terrible, it is true the GTI it does feel more nimble, but in the same sentence the R feels more planted, power is way better 80bhp more (1/3 more). They are both DSG too, servicing a GTI will be cheaper no Haldex to do, the GTI does do better miles to the gallon and has a bigger boot die to the lack of 4WD.
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I think you have to be very honest with yourself about your driving style and how you will use the car.
I went for the GTI PP DSG because it's fast enough (where I live anyway), fuel consumption is excellent, grip is very good (once you get PS4's fitted), the DSG is effortless when I'm crawling in traffic on the M3 and I love the paddles when I hit the open road :-)
Yes I would love an R but given the small percentage of time (and it seems to decreasing rapidly) when I could actually use the performance I'd rather have the economy of the GTI.
Horses for courses really. Good luck making the decision!
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If your wife thinks you drive too fast, then perhaps you should drive a little slower with her in the car.
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I test drove a pp GTi and an R and still bought the GTi pp. Yes the R is quicker has 4wd and felt a bit more planted but the GTi is lighter and with the pp diff you won't miss the 4wd. Drive it sensibly and you'll get high 30s mpg around town which you won't get from an R.
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^ Thats why I would go for the GTI too. Also you don't have to explain to non car people what a GTI is like you do an R.
If you weren't in a hurry and it was me I would wait for more news of the GTI TCR availability but thats just me.
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GTI is cheaper to insure, better on fuel and cheaper to service = cash saving = more time in the air = no brainer
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I'd be looking one of vast amount of 2018 year models currently on AT and grabbing a bargain.
GTI Manual from £24k - 12 to choose from
GTI Performance manual from £24k - 25 to choose from
R from £26k - 133 to choose from
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What’s AT??
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What’s AT??
Just short for AutoTrader
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Ah, thanks. These are not new unregistered ones then....
I wonder why there are so many 2018s on the mkt? Are they pre-regs being moved on by dealers?
If so, have sales of performance Golfs crashed?
And has the R had a fall from grace? There certainly seem to be a lot more used Rs for sale.
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Ah, thanks. These are not new unregistered ones then....
I wonder why there are so many 2018s on the mkt?
The 2018 cars advertised as new on Autotrader have to be registered before September if they’re not WLTP compliant (I think the actual date for registering pre-WLTP compliant cars is 15th August), so a big push by dealers to get these shifted. Probably some decent bargains to be had in view of the 15th August deadline.
Some dealers may have cars in stock that aren’t WLTP compliant but have registered them already in anticipation they won’t have sold them before 15th August. So there’s likely to be quite a few new, pre-registered cars for sale on dealer forecourts during the next few weeks.
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I am totally biased but of an age that fuel economy, servicing costs don't come into it.
I've said it before on this forum the Mk7.5 R is nothing short of sensational. And IMO an absolute steal.
Then I got mine at 70 years of age having owned 50 plus cars from a Mini van '63 to 2002 Turbo lhd! 911E and everything in between, all bought with cash. HP was a joke. Then there was no peer pressure so to speak.
Most of you guys are spoilt for choice with PCP's
My advice to OP (age?) get what you can afford all good things come to those who wait. And always keep some cash in reserve.
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R :wink:
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My wife likes the DSG Golf R...
So you are getting a Golf R then! :evil:
With the ACC (adaptive cruise control) fitted as standard - I cannot recommend the DSG enough. They work brilliantly together and make driving much more relaxing.
I also had to decide between the GTI and R. I made a long list of pros and cons and settled on the GTI(spec below). It just ticked more boxes for me.
3 things to be aware of with the R. It has a smaller boot. It has a much larger turning circle. Many people have noticed that it has better ride comfort in back to back tests with the standard GTI suspension.
1 thing to be aware of with the GTI. It can suffer from tramping/wheel hop. Especially in the wet with poor tyres. You may have experienced this with the GTD. I did with my GTD. The GTI PP (performance pack) ELSD (electronic limited slip differential) does not completely eliminate tramping. Though it is much less of an issue.
There are people who will try and tell you that the Golf R is much better in poor weather. They are partly right. The Golf R with four wheel drive will accelerate much better when traction is an issue. However, four wheel drive does little to help with cornering and does nothing to help with braking the car. Ultimately grip comes from your tyres and not your drive system.
Two great cars whatever you both decide.
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Having had a R 3 door, R estate and still having a R door I would got for the GTI PP.
I get why people like the R, they are very easy to drive quickly with out much talent and safe (which is why my wife loves it), you then drive something that is a bit more engaging and realise its missing that something.
The Up GTI is a breath of fresh air after boRedom, huge fun, a chassis where you can decide how it handles and running costs halved over night.
Edition 40 Clubsport for me is the pick of the crop.
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Hi Guys,
Having decided that the current GTD is our last one we will be ordering a GTi or R in the next couple of weeks.
The lead times on both cars is pretty long but we can extend our GTD lease month by month so it isn't a big problem.
We just can not decide on which car is the best to have as a long term buy, as in 6+ years or so.
Leasing has become expensive now we have de-registered for VAT and it actually works out about the same to buy the car as it does to lease it and there will always be some residual value in the car we buy so it's a no-brainer really.
My wife likes the DSG Golf R but while I like it, I have always driven manual cars, apart from a Tiguan that I really didn't like at all, especially round country roads. I thought the manual GTi was a much nicer car to drive, but then she thinks I drive too fast anyway.
Anyone fancy offering some advice, even if it's rude?
Stuff waiting for a new one to be built, I'd follow the lead suggested on here and find a new one in stock, either pre-reg'd or sat in a compound waiting for registration.
Ask the same question on the R forum and you'd think the GTI was as slow as a Golf Match and was impossible to drive quickly if there was the merest hint of moisture in the air.
The R is a better car full stop, but that really does depend on driving style.
I've owned all four, GTD, GTI PP, R and a Clubsport.
There's no doubt in my mind that the R is the best of the bunch but it isn't the most fun. It's a little too good, but hard as that might be to imagine after the summer like we've just had, on an average British damp and grey day the R would be a perfect companion for the country lanes, very quick and very surefooted.
I love my Clubsport but do miss the R.
It depends on driving style and gearbox choice in my eyes, as said by others here as to which would be the ideal car for you. It's nice to have the choice.
If you rarely use high revs then a GTI PP manual is great fun, great on fuel, pulls from almost tickover and will surprise you at how well it handles with the VAQ diff. That thing is amazing.
If you use high revs quite often then the DSG R is probably by far the best car you can buy for the money.
Then again, a Polo GTI makes a compelling argument for itself right now.
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There are people who will try and tell you that the Golf R is much better in poor weather. They are partly right. The Golf R with four wheel drive will accelerate much better when traction is an issue. However, four wheel drive does little to help with cornering and does nothing to help with braking the car. Ultimately grip comes from your tyres and not your drive system.
Two great cars whatever you both decide.
So very true.
Often completely overlooked, especially by drivers of a certain 4wd model.
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I went for the GTI manual ( used 12k miles ) I could of had a R or a PP however for the reason of budget and that I would rather have a really high spec gti with those seats etc . Plus running costs are excellent No regrets what so ever .its plenty quick enough as said for my usage and roads .
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I don’t know if you aware that the new Golf Mk8 will go into production middle of next year. Though I don’t expect to see any GTI or R versions until 2020.
So you will have your car less than a year before it will be the “old golf”. Might be a consideration if you plan on keeping it.
Though personally I really like the style, drive and performance of my Mk7.5.
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As others have said, this is a very personal decision, but here is my twopennys worth. I I have had a mk 6 and a mk7 GTD and they were fantastic cars in terms of comfort, speed and economy, but the demonisation of diesel, particularly in London, made me move back to petrol. I was tempted to go for a GTI, but wanted something completely different and for the last 14 months I’ve had a 7.5R. Performance wise it is in a different league, fuel consumption is also in a different league! 18mg around town and 36 on a long run! The performance is both amazing and addictive and if you want a complete change, I think it’s the way to go. Mk 8 Rs will be around in 2020, but that is 2 years on! Do you need the performance of the R? No, but did you need GTD levels of performance either? Go for it and keep the fuel companies happy :laugh: by the way, my insurance is considerably cheaper than it was for my GTD.
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My wife has a manual GTI and I have a DSG R.
While I like driving her GTI as it does feel lighter and more nimble, I'm always keen to get back in the R.
I just can't go that wheel spin from a standing start or slow moving. Its not as bad with the Michelin PS4s on it but its still annoying at times.
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Thanks for all the feedback, suggestions and info.
We went to put an order in for the Golf R and have been quoted 'at least 30 weeks delivery' so that takes us well into next year. As out GTD has to go back in early November we have no way of sorting out the car we want in time.
The only option was to agree to a 24 month lease on another GTD for cheap money. It isn't something we wanted to do but there are few other options. We looked at the cars that are available from stock and have to admit we are not keen on buying a bog standard spec car so we have decided to run with the GTD and will put an order in for the Golf R when things settle down next year.
It could work out to be the best option with the Golf Mk.8 due next year and we can run both cars for the remainder of the new GTD's lease.
Again, thanks for all the help and having test driven a couple more GTi's and R's we really grew to like the R very much, although we would undoubtedly be happy with a GTi.
All we hope now is that there will actually be a Golf R Mk.8.
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Did you not have an option to just extend your current lease?
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I had an "R" for a couple of weeks whilst my GTI was having a paint blemish repaired, and to be honest I was a bit underwhelmed (puts flame suit on). Don't get me wrong, it's a weapon that's for sure, and accelerating away from lights without the slightest hint of wheelspin was great but overall, it left me a bit cold.
For sure it was faster than my GTI (then with an extra 80ps and 4wd it bloody well should), but having read comments on here for many years about how almost supercar like it was, I think I was expecting more. Sure it felt faster but not like in another world faster, and the steering was much heavier and overall it just didn't feel as nimble. Like I say I think my expectations of the car were much higher than the reality. I don't critisize anyone who owns or has ordered an "R" as it's a great car, but for 80% of the time (or more), on crowded motorways where I tend to spend a lot of time, it was no quicker than the GTI (having said that, in reality the GTI is no really quicker than a Golf 1.4 Match in those conditions).
As a personal thing, I prefer the look of the GTI as well. The red accents in the front grill and lights, and the two big exhausts at the back (rather than the quad setup of the "R" I much prefer. Aside from initial traction, about the only thing that I really liked over my GTI at the time was the sound. There was no doubting that noise the "R" makes was much sportier and nicer sounding than the rather anaemic sound I get from the GTI.
Obviously these are my personal opinions and count for absolutely nothing in the real world as it's your money and decision not mine :D :D
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Did you not have an option to just extend your current lease?
The GTD is coming up for 3 years old so extending the lease meant we would have to have put it through an MOT and pay for any repairs or remedial work it might need. The scary thing is we would be leasing a car with no manufacturers warranty and that isn't something we are prepared to do.
We are happy to wait for the Mk.8 and see what VW come up with.
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Just because cars get to 3 years old doesn't mean they are going to start to self destruct. An MOT ought to be a formality
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Just because cars get to 3 years old doesn't mean they are going to start to self destruct. An MOT ought to be a formality
Agreed. At an MOT shouldn't be the first time that you find out your car needs tyres, brakes, coil springs/drop links etc. How many times have you actually made a claim for anything under manufacturer's warranty too?
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I’ve had 3 Golfs and kept each one 4-5 years, so have put each one through at least one MOT and none of them had an extended warranty (so running without warranty for up to two years). They all passed each MOT with no advisories, and none of them required a visit to the dealer for anything other than servicing/MOT in the fourth year of ownership.
I know there’s no guarantee that a car will be problem free once it reaches 3 years old and many owners wouldn’t want to run a car without it having benefit of the manufacturers warranty, but in the OP’s position, I think I would’ve extended the lease for a few months on the GTD and ordered the R for a March 2019 delivery.
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Thanks for all the feedback, suggestions and info.
The only option was to agree to a 24 month lease on another GTD for cheap money. It isn't something we wanted to do but there are few other options. We looked at the cars that are available from stock and have to admit we are not keen on buying a bog standard spec car so we have decided to run with the GTD and will put an order in for the Golf R when things settle down next year.
Well what a pointless thread this turned out to be.... :rolleyes:
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When considering which version to buy (deal not finalised as yet although I’m pretty close) I test drove both.
Back in April when I first started looking at these beasts I test drove the GTI performance manual (which is the version I really want being a bit of a petrol headed animal) and was seriously impressed given the fact that it only had 245 bhp. However, being inquisitive, I really wanted to test drive a R but the opportunity didn’t present itself until last Friday when the dealer I’d approached in April had one. Unfortunately it was an auto (I understand you can’t buy a manual new now) and I was pretty underwhelmed to be fair. OK, if you put your foot down it goes but (for me) lacked the pure fun of the performance GTI.
Some of you may think it odd that I keep saying “only” but that’s because my current car is running around 375 bhp. It’s a fantastic car and if I was minted I’d be keeping it but the PCP deal finishes in December so it’s got to go as I can’t afford to pay the “balloon” payment.
However, judging by my test drives and my colleague’s kindness today I’m 95% certain I’ll be joining the ranks of you guys!!
Let’s hope you’re all animal friendly......
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Some of you may think it odd that I keep saying “only” but that’s because my current car is running around 375 bhp. It’s a fantastic car and if I was minted I’d be keeping it but the PCP deal finishes in December so it’s got to go as I can’t afford to pay the “balloon” payment.
However, judging by my test drives and my colleague’s kindness today I’m 95% certain I’ll be joining the ranks of you guys!!
Let’s hope you’re all animal friendly......
Well you can't say things like that and then not tell us all what your current car is :whistle:
Unless it's something really exotic, surely it's going to cost less to finance the balloon payment for that rather than finance an entire new car?
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Well Mr Guzzle.....I suppose that’s fair enough.
My current car is a RS Focus MP375 which is very quick to say the least and I’ve had two years fun with it.
Time for a change however and the new GTI performance will fit the bill nicely me thinks.
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If I was young enough to not look stupid in the Focus, I would be keeping that. Never mind getting all dripped up on another new car, shop around for some cheap loan deals and enjoy the Ford for longer.
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Well Mr Guzzle.....I suppose that’s fair enough.
My current car is a RS Focus MP375 which is very quick to say the least and I’ve had two years fun with it.
Time for a change however and the new GTI performance will fit the bill nicely me thinks.
Hey Madpig, I currently own a Focus RS MP375 and a manual GTi Clubsport Edition 40. I like you wanted the GTi due to it being 'more fun' to drive and at lower speeds than say the R or RS is fun to drive at. I have never really got on with my RS, yes it's fast but the suspension is so badly damped and the steering way too sensitive for it to be fun on the type of winding back roads I have on my doorstep up here in Scotland. The car just doesn't flow down a road as it bounces its way from bump to camber !!
The Clubsport Ed40 on the other hand is a real blast to drive, I really like it and kind of reminds me of my old Mk1 FRS I used to own back in the day. It's such a nice car to drive that I'd suggest that you look for one of these if you can stretch to the extra you will pay over a regular GTi :cool:
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Very different cars the RS and the GTI.
One of my colleagues has an RS and yes its a hoot, but the refinement of a performance Golf is something else. There's more to it than just a BHP figure - its genuinely a nice place to be and loaded with the comforts that will be more use everyday than a sharpened track tool.
I expect you'll have more confidence of it still being there when you come back to the car park too..
I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoy mine!
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I thought about the Clubsport edition but I don't think you can get new ones? Besides it would out of my price range as I can only just stretch to the GTI performance! The dealer did say he might be able to get me a second hand one but I wouldn't get any deposit allowance on it and I wouldn't know if it had been ragged either.
I treat my RS like it's my baby and I will do the same with the Golf too. After the test drives I've had I think 245 bhp will be just fine as it's not all about straight line speed.
Thanks to both of you though as I agree with your comments especially the one about leaving it in the car park!
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I spent 1.5 years in a Mk7 GTI PP and now a year in a Mk7 R, I have to say overall I enjoyed the GTI more.
It feels so much lighter and more nimble, the R feels like a tank in comparison. The extra power of the R is nice to have but the GTI is just more fun due to it's "chuck-ability". I reckon the Ed 40 could be the best all round option, I would love to try one.
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Thanks to OP for this thread as I am now going through exactly the same dilemma choosing between R and GTI. I think the choice depends entirely on what you're looking for from a car.
I do about 5k miles a year. Commute to work is only 4 miles each way in town traffic. I drive country lanes, dual carriageways 3-4 times a week and motorways maybe twice a year.
I'm at a point in my life where I want a nice, quiet, refined, easy to drive car that's still not slow and can deliver a bit of fun and speed when I'm not snarled up in traffic.
The R beats the GTI hands down off the line but in "real world" driving, I keep hearing there's not much of a performance difference. Extra 60 BHP in the R but then 100KG to lug around with the AWD.
I'm swaying towards the GTI because it looks better than the R in my opinion, exterior and especially the interior. It's also is a more practical car and better suited to the miles and type of driving I do.
Also, whilst there's not much difference in price which does make the R tempting, I could get some great options on the GTI for the extra money.
I too though would be interested in others views on what to go for.
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GTi PP doesn't even require any more discussion :whistle:
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I had a 2014 mk7 R for 4 years and I have had a 2018 GTi PP for 2 months now. I definitely prefer the R. The main reasons are the sound (the grunt - both inside and outside), the acceleration, the grip and the way I feels more planted. I am hoping to get to like my GTi, but I bought it as I couldn’t buy a manual R. My plan is that the GTi is cheaper to buy and cheaper to run and I will use the cost savings to save towards a deposit for the mk8 R. I just hope that it will be available as a manual. If not, I will have to learn to drive a DSG (as I have been driving manual cars for 40 years now).
Don’t get me wrong, they are both great cars and I am grateful that I am in a position that I can experience them both, but I just prefer the R. I think also that it is down to costs. There is no doubt about it, the GTi is cheaper to buy and run, but I think that I am a R man.
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I had a 2014 mk7 R for 4 years and I have had a 2018 GTi PP for 2 months now. I definitely prefer the R. The main reasons are the sound (the grunt - both inside and outside), the acceleration, the grip and the way I feels more planted. I am hoping to get to like my GTi, but I bought it as I couldn’t buy a manual R. My plan is that the GTi is cheaper to buy and cheaper to run and I will use the cost savings to save towards a deposit for the mk8 R. I just hope that it will be available as a manual. If not, I will have to learn to drive a DSG (as I have been driving manual cars for 40 years now).
Don’t get me wrong, they are both great cars and I am grateful that I am in a position that I can experience them both, but I just prefer the R. I think also that it is down to costs. There is no doubt about it, the GTi is cheaper to buy and run, but I think that I am a R man.
I can appreciate why you prefer the R.
I loved my R too, it’s an amazing all rounder.
The FL GTI PP would never be far behind a manual R on British roads no matter what the weather though.
The torque comes in lower down and will more of less match the R on torque to weight, plus the VAQ will easily be a match for the 4wd in most situations once rolling.
I think you need to relearn your driving style to suit the GTI. Less reliance on revs and more on torque delivery, but more so learning to drive the VAQ properly as it’s an amazing bit of kit that works better the harder you push through corners.
Maybe it’s the tyres you have that are letting you down a bit?
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I had a 2014 mk7 R for 4 years and I have had a 2018 GTi PP for 2 months now. I definitely prefer the R. The main reasons are the sound (the grunt - both inside and outside), the acceleration, the grip and the way I feels more planted. I am hoping to get to like my GTi, but I bought it as I couldn’t buy a manual R. My plan is that the GTi is cheaper to buy and cheaper to run and I will use the cost savings to save towards a deposit for the mk8 R. I just hope that it will be available as a manual. If not, I will have to learn to drive a DSG (as I have been driving manual cars for 40 years now).
Don’t get me wrong, they are both great cars and I am grateful that I am in a position that I can experience them both, but I just prefer the R. I think also that it is down to costs. There is no doubt about it, the GTi is cheaper to buy and run, but I think that I am a R man.
I can appreciate why you prefer the R.
I loved my R too, it’s an amazing all rounder.
The FL GTI PP would never be far behind a manual R on British roads no matter what the weather though.
The torque comes in lower down and will more of less match the R on torque to weight, plus the VAQ will easily be a match for the 4wd in most situations once rolling.
I think you need to relearn your driving style to suit the GTI. Less reliance on revs and more on torque delivery, but more so learning to drive the VAQ properly as it’s an amazing bit of kit that works better the harder you push through corners.
Maybe it’s the tyres you have that are letting you down a bit?
Mine is bloody gorgeous, convinced the 7speed is the biggest reason for the seamless acceleration, that and the amazing traction, also the bhp that I'm convinced is above book. It's quiet, comfortable beats my ladies GTI on every single level including fun. Frightening can be fun
If anyone is passing come and try mine, btw it doesn't feel like a tank to me!
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I had a 2014 mk7 R for 4 years and I have had a 2018 GTi PP for 2 months now. I definitely prefer the R. The main reasons are the sound (the grunt - both inside and outside), the acceleration, the grip and the way I feels more planted. I am hoping to get to like my GTi, but I bought it as I couldn’t buy a manual R. My plan is that the GTi is cheaper to buy and cheaper to run and I will use the cost savings to save towards a deposit for the mk8 R. I just hope that it will be available as a manual. If not, I will have to learn to drive a DSG (as I have been driving manual cars for 40 years now).
Don’t get me wrong, they are both great cars and I am grateful that I am in a position that I can experience them both, but I just prefer the R. I think also that it is down to costs. There is no doubt about it, the GTi is cheaper to buy and run, but I think that I am a R man.
I can appreciate why you prefer the R.
I loved my R too, it’s an amazing all rounder.
The FL GTI PP would never be far behind a manual R on British roads no matter what the weather though.
The torque comes in lower down and will more of less match the R on torque to weight, plus the VAQ will easily be a match for the 4wd in most situations once rolling.
I think you need to relearn your driving style to suit the GTI. Less reliance on revs and more on torque delivery, but more so learning to drive the VAQ properly as it’s an amazing bit of kit that works better the harder you push through corners.
Maybe it’s the tyres you have that are letting you down a bit?
Mine is bloody gorgeous, convinced the 7speed is the biggest reason for the seamless acceleration, that and the amazing traction, also the bhp that I'm convinced is above book. It's quiet, comfortable beats my ladies GTI on every single level including fun. Frightening can be fun
If anyone is passing come and try mine, btw it doesn't feel like a tank to me!
See you tomorrow :laugh: :laugh:
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I'm utterly convinced the solid nature of the R is to do with the weight distribution of the AWD bits...
A FWD Golf is stupidly light on the rear, which makes it feel a bit strange on bumpy roads (ie the UK). Its never a real problem in terms of making holes in the scenery, but its definitely disconcerting at times.
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For struggling to decide (not the OP as he’s sticking with diesel :rolleyes:), here’s a nice review of both GTI Performance and the R.
https://youtu.be/gRfxc5Tmj1w
And 0-60 in 5.7 for the GTI :cool:
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Mine is bloody gorgeous, convinced the 7speed is the biggest reason for the seamless acceleration, that and the amazing traction, also the bhp that I'm convinced is above book. It's quiet, comfortable beats my ladies GTI on every single level including fun. Frightening can be fun
If anyone is passing come and try mine, btw it doesn't feel like a tank to me!
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Odd...I wasn't impressed at all when I test drove a DSG R a couple of weeks ago.
Unless you nail the pedal to the metal it was as slow as a slow thing but when I tried the GTI performance (manual)...well that was a different kettle of fish altogether.
Perhaps it's just me with automatics....or maybe it's because my current beast (RS Focus) is running 375bhp and the slightest blip on the throttle makes the car surge forward!
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Despite DSG having loads of plus points, if you come from a long line of manuals like me it can feel a little odd.
I'm sure when you get used to it its stonking (lightning fast gear changes and just push button driving) but it probably is taking away one of the last bits of direct control you have left. Much of the rest of the car is already doing its own thing - for better or worse!
Its is however the future - can't have those manual gear boxes creating random emissions profiles down to driver abuse....
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Mine is bloody gorgeous, convinced the 7speed is the biggest reason for the seamless acceleration, that and the amazing traction, also the bhp that I'm convinced is above book. It's quiet, comfortable beats my ladies GTI on every single level including fun. Frightening can be fun
If anyone is passing come and try mine, btw it doesn't feel like a tank to me!
Odd...I wasn't impressed at all when I test drove a DSG R a couple of weeks ago.
Unless you nail the pedal to the metal it was as slow as a slow thing but when I tried the GTI performance (manual)...well that was a different kettle of fish altogether.
Perhaps it's just me with automatics....or maybe it's because my current beast (RS Focus) is running 375bhp and the slightest blip on the throttle makes the car surge forward!
[/quote]
The DTUK pedal box makes a massive difference, the standard R has the worst dead pedal I have ever experienced. As many have said on here. It's worse than the GTI. The box set on sport transforms the car completely to an immediate response. And don't forget to use the paddles for ultimate control.
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I don't have any issue with the throttle on the 7.5 with 7 speed, goes well for me. Not sure what the 7 with 6 speed is like....
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Forgive my ignorance but what is this “pedal box” which everyone refers to?
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Forgive my ignorance but what is this “pedal box” which everyone refers to?
Type “pedalbox” into the forum search and be prepared to spend several hours being brainwashed.
It’s the best mod you can do to a mk7, mk7.5 or more or less any modern car with DBW throttle.
It totally transforms how the car drives on low to moderate throttle openings.
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Forgive my ignorance but what is this “pedal box” which everyone refers to?
This thread will keep you going for hours.....
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=278239.0
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I haven't got one and still don't feel the need for one but I'm in the minority :cool:
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I haven't got one and still don't feel the need for one but I'm in the minority :cool:
Don't know what you're missing. :whistle:
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I haven't got one and still don't feel the need for one but I'm in the minority :cool:
Don't know what you're missing. :whistle:
No thanks, if I want an on/off switch I'll play on a games console :whistle:
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No thanks, if I want an on/off switch I'll play on a games console :whistle:
:grin:
I find it the other way round as standard.
Like one of the dealership valeting guys has left a jumbo sponge in the footwell.
Press down gently to ease into traffic, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, a bit of noise from the soundaktor at last and then suddenly all the horses arrive just before the click switch at the bottom of the pedal travel before the carpet.
With the PedalBox you can actually feel the the prodigious torque build as you gently modulate the throttle feeling more at one with the car.
It’s nice to be able to zip into gaps safely without feeling like there’s a guy in the engine room reading a broadsheet newspaper in between stoking the coals.
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No thanks, if I want an on/off switch I'll play on a games console :whistle:
:grin:
I find it the other way round as standard.
Like one of the dealership valeting guys has left a jumbo sponge in the footwell.
Press down gently to ease into traffic, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, a bit of noise from the soundaktor at last and then suddenly all the horses arrive just before the click switch at the bottom of the pedal travel before the carpet.
With the PedalBox you can actually feel the the prodigious torque build as you gently modulate the throttle feeling more at one with the car.
It’s nice to be able to zip into gaps safely without feeling like there’s a guy in the engine room reading a broadsheet newspaper in between stoking the coals.
Good description. Much easier and more progressive control of the throttle with a pedal box. But then some people would have no idea! :grin: :whistle: :whistle: :grin:
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I must have watched or read dozens of reviews of the GTI, GTI PP & R. I can't remember any of them saying that they needed a peddle box. I guess the reviewers must have had '..no idea'....
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i must admit when cruising along at 65ish and wanting to overtake (on motorway) it does seem to be a bit vague when pressing the throttle.
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i must admit when cruising along at 65ish and wanting to overtake (on motorway) it does seem to be a bit vague when pressing the throttle.
It's like any modification. The car doesn't need but it will make a difference. Same as it doesn't need a remap but it will be quicker if you do. I don't haven't one but I'm sure I drove a GTi with one then I'd probably want to get one.
And yes, never heard or read a review ever that says the current GTI has the throttle response of a steam train either :grin:
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I must have watched or read dozens of reviews of the GTI, GTI PP & R. I can't remember any of them saying that they needed a peddle box. I guess the reviewers must have had '..no idea'....
I guess all of us with a pedal box, who have actually used one (unlike the reviewers you mention) and who say it makes a huge difference are just making stuff up, then. Yep, sounds plausible.
Go drive one with a pedal box. Then you will understand.
And BTW, the "got no idea" comment was directed at the forum contrarian McMaddy (pictured below):
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/044/247/297.png)
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Splashalot - didn't say you were making anything up. Just that I've never heard a GTI being described as needing a piddle box. Am sure it does make a difference and for pure petrol heads who want that extra 'kick', I can see the benefit.
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Splashalot - didn't say you were making anything up. Just that I've never heard a GTI being described as needing a piddle box. Am sure it does make a difference and for pure petrol heads who want that extra 'kick', I can see the benefit.
You don't need to be a pure petrol head to get the benefit of a pedalbox mod, far from it. Think of an older car with a cabled throttle, the current car is like that but where the cable has too much slack in it so the car won't respond properly until your foot has taken the slack up first. It just makes the car feel far more responsive. Also, the Eco/Normal/Sport options in the car prove the basis of the need for it just that VW still engineer too much slack in the system which is where the pedalbox comes in. I think it's so good that even though I feel I'm getting shafted by my current insurer, but because they agreed to have the box included (at no cost too) I haven't bothered getting any renewal time quotes because that box is NOT coming off :laugh:
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I must have watched or read dozens of reviews of the GTI, GTI PP & R. I can't remember any of them saying that they needed a peddle box. I guess the reviewers must have had '..no idea'....
I guess all of us with a pedal box, who have actually used one (unlike the reviewers you mention) and who say it makes a huge difference are just making stuff up, then. Yep, sounds plausible.
Go drive one with a pedal box. Then you will understand.
And BTW, the "got no idea" comment was directed at the forum contrarian McMaddy (pictured below):
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/044/247/297.png)
How am I being contrary you absolute moron!! 'got no idea' you know nothing about me so I suggest you keep your personal comments/insults to yourself. Just because someone doesn't agree with your opinion doesn't mean you or they are right. I've tried a pedal box and didn't feel the need for one, still don't. If people think they need one then fine etto. I personally don't want or have one so it's the end of the conversation.
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RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!
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And BTW, the "got no idea" comment was directed at the forum contrarian McMaddy (pictured below):
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/044/247/297.png)
:grin:
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I'm sure they do add something, I did loads of reading as I hated the throttle in my 2.0t CC with 6 speed DSG. It was terrible.
I was going to buy a box before I collected my R but held off. I've done 4k so far and I find the throttle night and day better than the CC. My R has the 7 speed which is also much better than the 6 I had before.
I did a fair amount of reading online and some 7 speed owners said the pedal box didn't add that much to the party. Now a few did so I guess some of that will be down to taste and what you're used to.
If I'd felt the throttle was the same as the CC's, I would of bought one in a flash! I'd love to try a 7 speed with the box but I'm not willing on spunking cash on something I may feel a little 'meh' about.
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I must have watched or read dozens of reviews of the GTI, GTI PP & R. I can't remember any of them saying that they needed a peddle box. I guess the reviewers must have had '..no idea'....
Even though, imo, the very accurately described “jumbo sponge in footwell”’ feel of the initial part of the throttle pedal travel is immediately apparent (in an R anyway), it’s really only when you’ve driven the car regularly and for any length of time, that’s it really manifests itself as an impediment to the enjoyment and function of the pedal,and that sponges first inch starts to becomes more and more irksome and takes away from the driving experience. So unless it’s a long term review, it’s not surprising there’s no mention of this in the many reviews you read or watched.
Maybe it’s not for everyone, but to me my R without a pedal box is a much poorer car.
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And to answer the OP’s original question......
R.
:grin:
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I was in the same boat as you. I originally wanted a Golf R in manual but ended up with a DSG GTi. Like you said the GTi felt much more nimble and fun. You can always get a remap if you feel it's underpowered.
Either that or buy a Clubsport ;)
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Is the purchase of pedal boxes mainly from dsg owners?? Could it be the throttle pedal is set up differently for dsg gearboxes?
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The point of my original post hasn't been wasted at all. I'll just say that things at home have changed somewhat and although we have signed up for a 24 month lease on a GTD, I am still looking at buying either a GTi or R, because I will need my own car.
I have still been reading the thread but have had other things to deal with but hope to contribute a bit more.
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Surely depends entirely what you want from a car?
Just seen a head to head review from Harry's Garage and the GTI came out on top as the best all rounder.
If you want the greatest performance possible from a Golf then it's the R.
But for me, the GTI has far more style, is more practical and usable day-to-day, is more fun to drive on twisty roads and has enough performance in nearly all circumstances.
The GTI has been honed over 40 years to be the car it is.
I'm looking to test drive both but the GTI hits the sweet spot for me.
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Having driven both cars and currently owning an S3, I think that the gti makes more sense on a day to day basis. It seems more fun but maybe that depends on how much you buy into the gti heritage?
Fuel costs between an gti and S3 (understand it’s not an R) have been negligible.
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Having driven both cars and currently owning an S3, I think that the gti makes more sense on a day to day basis. It seems more fun but maybe that depends on how much you buy into the gti heritage?
Fuel costs between an gti and S3 (understand it’s not an R) have been negligible.
Illustration of what different drivers are looking for (with the caveat all GTI drivers are different and not like me).
An R owner told me "Whatever, you must get the DCC." Me: "Why?" R Owner: "It makes the suspension so much stiffer on Sport mode". Me: "I'll rarely drive it in Sport mode. I'm thinking about getting the DCC because it makes the suspension softer and more luxurious in Comfort mode."
Then, R owner told me "The R sounds so much better than the GTI". Me: "Is it more refined then and quieter in the caabin? "R owner: "No, it's louder, check out those pops and crackles and overruns."
R owner: "Great when you track it".
Me: "When I track it? WTF? I just want an affordable, relatively refined and comfortable car that isn't slow and I can have a bit of fun in."
As I say. For me, it depends entirely on your driving style and what you're looking for.
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Having driven both cars and currently owning an S3, I think that the gti makes more sense on a day to day basis. It seems more fun but maybe that depends on how much you buy into the gti heritage?
Fuel costs between an gti and S3 (understand it’s not an R) have been negligible.
Illustration of what different drivers are looking for (with the caveat all GTI drivers are different and not like me).
An R owner told me "Whatever, you must get the DCC." Me: "Why?" R Owner: "It makes the suspension so much stiffer on Sport mode". Me: "I'll rarely drive it in Sport mode. I'm thinking about getting the DCC because it makes the suspension softer and more luxurious in Comfort mode."
Then, R owner told me "The R sounds so much better than the GTI". Me: "Is it more refined then and quieter in the caabin? "R owner: "No, it's louder, check out those pops and crackles and overruns."
R owner: "Great when you track it".
Me: "When I track it? WTF? I just want an affordable, relatively refined and comfortable car that isn't slow and I can have a bit of fun in."
As I say. For me, it depends entirely on your driving style and what you're looking for.
100% agree. Buy the car car that suits you.
What I’ve learnt over the years is that more bhp doesn’t equal more fun or a ‘better’ car. The gti is a great car.
However, if the TCR is too much I might well buy an R!
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I'm hardly driving the R at the moment - been running in the Polo GTI+ and it is a bit more chuckable than the Golf, even if it isn't as quick. The wife has the R for her commute (she's scared to try the DSG) and i'm not missing it. Have a dilemma on my hands as to whether to keep the R long term or to chop it in when it's 4 years old next year. If we do chop it in, we may get a manual Polo GTI+ in Diamond Black (the one we have is Flash red DSG) if the new A1 will cost a fortune in options to get a decent spec.
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I reckon the new A1 will start around £16.5k with an S1 around £27k. Cars are becoming v expensive.
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ICars are becoming v expensive.
Very true. Golf GTI RRP is up 46% in 9 years - with record low inflation for that period. Very soon not to be the peoples car if it gets any pricier.
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ICars are becoming v expensive.
Very true. Golf GTI RRP is up 46% in 9 years - with record low inflation for that period. Very soon not to be the peoples car if it gets any pricier.
Yep. When I got my mk5 think it was about £21.5k. Now around £28k with the spec I’d want. Plus gfv seems to be taking a hit. That all equals a big swing in the wrong direction. There’s very little difference in gfv between an R and a gti too. I think!
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ICars are becoming v expensive.
Very true. Golf GTI RRP is up 46% in 9 years - with record low inflation for that period. Very soon not to be the peoples car if it gets any pricier.
How does that compare to say a Focus ST or Civic Type R?
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Let me answer that
the Type R question.... 2009 £19995.... 2018 £31995.... thats over 50% more expensive.
The Focus ST 2009 £18250 2018 £25735... 41% more (assuming I got the like for like models to compare)
So Golf GTI.... middle of the road it seems.
How have all of these cars shot up in price? Well, its almost certainly because they contain much more tech than 9 years ago.
Would a car 9 years ago get you from A to B? Yes of course... but now you do it more conveniently and maybe more enviromentally (ahahah!)
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List prices are only half the story. When I bought my GT TDi back in 2004 I got about £1,400 discount going through Drive The Deal.
Just run a quote for a Mk7.5 same spec (or as close as dammit), and the discount is over £4.5k. More than 3 times the discount. It's about £3k or 20% more than I paid 14 years ago, but includes things that mine didn’t have, such as sat nav, cruise control, multi-function steering wheel, rear privacy glass, parking sensors etc.
So I don't think we're doing all that badly to be fair.
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I will revisit my forum expressed view of a few months ago that secondhand R prices have long been blighted by the ridiculously cheap lease deals pushed on Rs and GTDs but never offered on GTIs over several years. Always thought the R must have been massively undersold by VW given what a weapon it is.
Any idea why VW seemed to “dump” Rs into the market especially maybe into the business user area?
Business car and lease/pcp cars have always made me nervous about buying second hand for reasons I hardly need explain.
But maybe that’s the view of an outright cash buyer/owner.
Annoying bugger, eh?
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In 2005 Clarkson raved about the MK5 GTI, now as I recall the base 3 door manual was £19995, If someone cares to check the base Mk7.5 GTI manual GTI today I think you'll find it's nothing like 50% more! In fact, if you consider the standard kit today and spec similar on a 2005 you'll find it's probably in line with inflation over that period. IMO relatively cheaper considering discounts available for buyers.