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Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: evo1986 on 03 July 2018, 13:59

Title: Small power reduction to some high performance petrol engines
Post by: evo1986 on 03 July 2018, 13:59


Small power reduction to some high performance petrol engines
VW0677-18 03 JUL 2018
Two high-performance model year 2019 (MY19) petrol engines will have reduced power output in order to meet the EURO 6 BG emission standards.

In the context of new homologations, there are adaptions for the exhaust-gas-treatment and for the power output, as follows:

Golf 2.0 TSI DSG: reduction from 310PS to 300PS and now only offered with DSG transmission
Arteon Elegance and R-Line 2.0 TSI DSG: reduction from 280PS to 272PS

Title: Re: Small power reduction to some high performance petrol engines
Post by: scanesare on 03 July 2018, 14:56
I have a feeling this will hurt performance of MY19 7.5 vs MY18 more than the quoted 10ps suggests. Seen a couple of 7.5 R's pushing between 320-330bhp on different dynos which on its own does not say much, but on both occasions the 100-200km/h times of those cars more than backed up the dyno figures. They were a whole 1.5s - 2s faster than the average MK7 R which indicates a car closer to 330bph rather than 310 so it's no surprise if they were actually producing more emissions. Seems they are going to lose that edge now. Another reason to wait just a bit more for the MK8 R the way I see it.
Title: Re: Small power reduction to some high performance petrol engines
Post by: evo1986 on 03 July 2018, 15:12
Can someone please share on the Rforum........

I am banned from there still I think  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Small power reduction to some high performance petrol engines
Post by: Gnasher on 03 July 2018, 15:21
I have a feeling this will hurt performance of MY19 7.5 vs MY18 more than the quoted 10ps suggests. Seen a couple of 7.5 R's pushing between 320-330bhp on different dynos which on its own does not say much, but on both occasions the 100-200km/h times of those cars more than backed up the dyno figures. They were a whole 1.5s - 2s faster than the average MK7 R which indicates a car closer to 330bph rather than 310 so it's no surprise if they were actually producing more emissions. Seems they are going to lose that edge now. Another reason to wait just a bit more for the MK8 R the way I see it.

Do the Mk7 R's not dyno at an equally "slightly above quoted" power though and it's the 7 speed DSG with better ratio's that make the big diference.

I know a lot of people have dynoed standard Mk7 GTIs and they've all been higher than stock power.
Title: Re: Small power reduction to some high performance petrol engines
Post by: scanesare on 03 July 2018, 15:35
Do the Mk7 R's not dyno at an equally "slightly above quoted" power though and it's the 7 speed DSG with better ratio's that make the big diference.

I know a lot of people have dynoed standard Mk7 GTIs and they've all been higher than stock power.

Probably every VAG car since the beginning of history has been dynoed  to xx bhp more than advertised. I'd like to believe truth is somewhere in the middle, there are maybe some extra ponnies but not as much as some dynos suggest, which is why said a dyno figure on its own does not say much to me nowadays from what I've seen (same cars losing or gaining 10-15bhp depending on when and where they were measured).

But 100-200 times measured with precision GPS gear in flat straight roads and with correction applied are a far more accurate indication of any car's power. In those measurements the 7.5s were consistently and significantly quicker than their MK7 brothers (a whole second of difference at 200km/h means several cars length in between the two cars). Only two gear changes in a 100-200 pull also so although the 7speed is a bit quicker it is not the main factor here, the 7.5 must have left the factory with quite a bit more than 310ps. Well it was up to now I imagine.
Title: Re: Small power reduction to some high performance petrol engines
Post by: dubber36 on 03 July 2018, 16:37
(a whole second of difference at 200km/h means several cars length in between the two cars).

Surely that only matters if you're racing?
Title: Re: Small power reduction to some high performance petrol engines
Post by: scanesare on 03 July 2018, 16:55
(a whole second of difference at 200km/h means several cars length in between the two cars).

Surely that only matters if you're racing?

Probably... same as any power or acceleration figure only matters to racers usually  :huh:
Title: Re: Small power reduction to some high performance petrol engines
Post by: fredgroves on 03 July 2018, 17:34
I wonder if its actually a down tune or if the "adaptions for the exhaust-gas-treatment" (probably the particulate filter) actually strangles it down to 300PS?

Could be either
Title: Re: Small power reduction to some high performance petrol engines
Post by: Clubsport S on 03 July 2018, 18:19
Will this apply to all VAG cars including the Audi S3?
Title: Re: Small power reduction to some high performance petrol engines
Post by: SRGTD on 03 July 2018, 18:44
Will this apply to all VAG cars including the Audi S3?

It certainly applies to the Seat Leon Cupra hatch. 2018 model year is 300ps. From 2019 model year, power output is reduced to 290ps and is DSG only. The Leon Cupra ST 4WD DSG (estate) is unaltered at 300ps for 2019 MY.
Title: Re: Small power reduction to some high performance petrol engines
Post by: Booth11 on 03 July 2018, 20:46
Can someone please share on the Rforum........

I am banned from there still I think  :rolleyes:


Yes, will do.  The ‘R’ is actually missing from your original post. 
Title: Re: Small power reduction to some high performance petrol engines
Post by: fredgroves on 03 July 2018, 22:02
S3 is down to 300 too.
Title: Re: Small power reduction to some high performance petrol engines
Post by: dubber36 on 04 July 2018, 08:35
(a whole second of difference at 200km/h means several cars length in between the two cars).

Surely that only matters if you're racing?

Probably... same as any power or acceleration figure only matters to racers usually  :huh:

No need for concern for road car drivers then. However, if having to brake from 120 rather than 118mph to the McDonalds roundabout is an issue, then perhaps it should matter.
Title: Re: Small power reduction to some high performance petrol engines
Post by: Watts on 05 July 2018, 18:45
Saw this: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/golf/103993/volkswagen-golf-r-power-dropped-down-to-296bhp-due-to-wltp-emissions-rules

Also says no more 3 door R. Is this the beginning of the end? :sad:
Title: Re: Small power reduction to some high performance petrol engines
Post by: Jim_mk7.5 on 05 July 2018, 19:18
Evo taking about the reasons and how the power decrease is happening.

http://www.evo.co.uk/volkswagen/golf/21458/volkswagen-golf-r-power-reduced-due-to-new-wltp-regs?_mout=1&utm_campaign=evo_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter

Funny that it doesn’t say this is a step back to the same power as the original Mk7 R?  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Small power reduction to some high performance petrol engines
Post by: scanesare on 06 July 2018, 09:04
No need for concern for road car drivers then. However, if having to brake from 120 rather than 118mph to the McDonalds roundabout is an issue, then perhaps it should matter.

Absolutely no concern at all. We know anyway that people usually pay the premium for 300bhp cars instead of the lesser variants to only ever accelerate in a calm controlled manner, always stay below 70mph and never engage in any sort of "testing" against other cars. Makes sense that no R owner/buyer would care about acceleration figures, first thing they check is usually mpg  :laugh:
Title: Re: Small power reduction to some high performance petrol engines
Post by: fredgroves on 06 July 2018, 09:11
From that Evo link:

"Essentially the power loss has come from the need to fit a more restrictive exhaust to reduce nitrogen oxide emissions – something more stringently policed under WLTP. "

That'll be the particulate filter then. Do I win a prize?

"SEAT also recently went through a similar process with its Leon Cupra."

Golly, how strange, an entirely separate car manufacturer with the same problem and solution.
Title: Re: Small power reduction to some high performance petrol engines
Post by: scanesare on 06 July 2018, 09:52
Golly, how strange, an entirely separate car manufacturer with the same problem and solution.

 :grin: :grin:

On a serious note, will that be really an extra part of the exhaust (filter) or it is rather a more restrictive catalyst? Because from the wording used it is not clear what's the case.
Title: Re: Small power reduction to some high performance petrol engines
Post by: fredgroves on 06 July 2018, 11:02
Petrol particulate filter.

When they introduced those to oil burners with Euro5 the performance dropped right off.

It took a while for better designs and other changes to bring it back, which they won't do for the Mk7.5, this is just an emergency retrofit. Mk8 should be better...

I'd imagine that much like the earlier oil burners, removing the PPF will see quite good gains, but I'd imagine that's a MOT fail...
Title: Re: Small power reduction to some high performance petrol engines
Post by: Restlessnative on 06 July 2018, 17:45
Just checking out these posts about the R.I was shocked to see the first year VED for a manual is £800!.DSG £500.I know it's £140 a year thereafter but that's a total rip off!.Maybe the lower emissions will make a bit of difference.
Title: Re: Small power reduction to some high performance petrol engines
Post by: fredgroves on 06 July 2018, 20:35
Just don't knock it over 40k list price with the extras...
Title: Re: Small power reduction to some high performance petrol engines
Post by: Restlessnative on 06 July 2018, 21:22
Just don't knock it over 40k list price with the extras...

£450 a year for years 2 to 6.Brutal! :sad:
Title: Re: Small power reduction to some high performance petrol engines
Post by: CHB100 on 07 July 2018, 18:38
So in fact the 310 ( that genuinely feels more ) Maybe the 7 speed ? But genuinely quicker than you would expect.
Will become a little classic? How many will there be in the UK? Seriously get one now if you're in the market. I paid a measly £31.5k our for mine! And is tax/insurance friendly. The Mk8 R although no doubt desireable is likely to be a very costly option.
So the Mk8 GTI will probably take an even bigger share of the GTI/R cake.