GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: evo1986 on 20 April 2018, 11:24
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Golf GTD and R manual models will be discontinued because they will not be changed over to WLTP type approval – this applies to the Hatch and Estate models.
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Week 22 stuff then is it :D
But not GTI manual?
What about the rumour of no non-PP GTI? Or the much appreciated death of purple nasty paint?
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No build week 22 stuff yet..............
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What is WLTP type approval? Do you know why it’s not getting approved?
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Had hoped to order a GTD manual later in the year, will have to go for something different now. Is the GTI PP affected by this decision?
Thanks
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What is WLTP type approval? Do you know why it’s not getting approved?
I would guess the clue is here:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/fcb/wltp.asp
Manufacturers will be required to obtain approval under WLTP from 1 September 2017, with this becoming mandatory for all new cars by September 2018.
So VW hadn't done it until now, but will need to have it by September 2018 - so now is the time.
The results will place vehicles into categories and I'd assume that the manual versions are likely to have sufficiently poor results that its not worth making them...
WLTP testing is very different to the old EU test cycle, no longer will you see stupid unobtainable figures for fuel economy or CO2 emissions. Good results will need good technology, not gaming the test - and everyone has been gaming it to some degree (even if not by the infamous VW software!)
That's my take on it, yet I don't understand why the GTI isn't mentioned.
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My guess as to why the manual GTi isn't mentioned is due to sales numbers. Could be that the manual GTi sells in reasonable numbers and the manual GTD and R not so. BMW submitted the M4 but discontinued the M3 for this reason. I presume there is a significant cost to submitting/ tweaking a vehicle for the new test.
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Its going on all over...
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My guess as to why the manual GTi isn't mentioned is due to sales numbers. Could be that the manual GTi sells in reasonable numbers and the manual GTD and R not so.
That may be the case with the R model, but i'd be surprised if it were true of the GTD. It significantly outsells the GTI on fleet sales alone. Or at least it did do until dieselgate.
Perhaps Lee could clarify if it's just the TDI 184ps with manual that's being discontinued, or if it applies to the TDI 150ps with manual too?
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My guess as to why the manual GTi isn't mentioned is due to sales numbers. Could be that the manual GTi sells in reasonable numbers and the manual GTD and R not so.
That may be the case with the R model, but i'd be surprised if it were true of the GTD. It significantly outsells the GTI on fleet sales alone. Or at least it did do until dieselgate.
Perhaps Lee could clarify if it's just the TDI 184ps with manual that's being discontinued, or if it applies to the TDI 150ps with manual too?
I read it to mean manual GTD. Just like the R I'm thinking that lower manual GTD sales don't justify it being readied for the new test. Perhaps the manual cars real world emissions were too high but the DSG cars just slipped through. I'm sure all the info will come to light soon.
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I would imagine they sell plenty of manual GTD and certainly looking at the used market there are many more manual than automatic. Think as previously said the issue is much more to do with struggling to either meet regulations or produce an impressive enough result to attract sales. Got to hurt sales I would think and even at the very most basic point it will increase the purchase cost of the car thus maybe being less competitive, increasing lease costs and also BIK for company users.
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Maybe the main reason there are a lot of manual GTD’s is that they are cheaper to buy so more attainable to company car users :undecided:
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Or maybe people just like manual gearboxes :whistle:
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Yes, there are those that simply prefer manual boxes. I'm one of them. If this is a decision by VW for the longer term then this may rule out another GTD for me next time (or an R for that matter). :sad:
Seems VW only wants to offer its more powerful engines with an auto box these days.
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As a company car driver, I could never justify the DSG box on my GTD. It *used* to have a worse CO2 figure and then you were paying lease/bik on the DSG box as well. Made it VERY expensive.
Company car tax is so bad now that I dropped out anyway but even then I couldn't see the point of DSG on a GTD. On a GTI or R, yes...
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Where is it stated VW are discontinuing manual Golf Rs?
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Where is it stated VW are discontinuing manual Golf Rs?
Read the signature line on the OP... He's a man who knows stuff...
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Where is it stated VW are discontinuing manual Golf Rs?
Originator of this post (evo1986) is a manager at Cheltenham VW, so the information comes from a reliable source. No reason to think it’s not correct.
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They've already been removed from Drive The Deal website.
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The irony was I think they probably sold more manual GTDs as if you went DSG you ended up going a tax bracket has been pointed out here
BMW are doing this with the M range and this is why the M2 Competition has appeared with essentially a M4 unit detuned
Porsche are currently sorting out there range as well, especially 911
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VW don’t just sell cars in UK, tax and company car tax in a lot of other markets don’t depend on CO2 emissions.
E.g. German company car tax is worked out at 1% of list price as BIK per month, i.e. you need to pay income tax on 12% of list price a year (includes all personal mileage).
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Surprised the Germans don't care about pollution... ours is a calculation based on CO2 pollution (with an extra uplift for oil burners) and list price (list price, not purchase price or lease cost)... and now if that figure is lower than the income tax you'd have paid for the car lease/purchase as cash, you pay the higher of the two figures!
It was that final addition that was basically the nail in the coffin for company cars as a tax efficiency...
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They do but in a different way - low emission zones in cities that lock out older cars based on particulate and in future NoX.
The German government wouldn’t want to hurt their car industry too much I suppose, hence the 1% list price a month rule (which is less BIK, but you generally pay higher percentage in income tax).
My GTD works out at just shy of 9k£ in BIK in the UK, in Germany it would only be around 5k€ (or 4.5k£), at the end of the day though it would cost me the same if not a smudge more.... but private mileage is included over in Germany where I have to pay per mile in the UK (to avoid fuel BIK tax hike).
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There's a new pricelist on the VW website dated 26.04.18 which I assume covers MY19 changes, both GTD & R models are still available as manual transmissions.
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I found out about this last week. I have currently owned a mk7R for 4 years and it is due to be changed. I went to my dealer to order my new mk7.5R manual and was advised that the R manual model will be discontinued because they will not be changed over to WLTP type approval – this also applies to the Estate models.
So I have ordered a mk7 Gti Performance. I am a bit nervous about changing from an R to a GTi. I hope that I won't be disappointed.
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I found out about this last week. I have currently owned a mk7R for 4 years and it is due to be changed. I went to my dealer to order my new mk7.5R manual and was advised that the R manual model will be discontinued because they will not be changed over to WLTP type approval – this also applies to the Estate models.
So I have ordered a mk7 Gti Performance. I am a bit nervous about changing from an R to a GTi. I hope that I won't be disappointed.
Sounds like in a few weeks you'll find out! Did you not take a test drive then? There are a few on here that have changed from an R to a GTI and I can't say I recall anyone being disappointed but it is a very personal thing. You must have thought very highly of your R to have one for 4 years and still want another. I hope it goes well for you :smiley:
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I love my R. It is the best car I have ever owned (including a 420BHP 4 litre V8 M3). I have taken a leap of faith and not even been inside a GTi. But I am very confident that I will enjoy it, hopefully as much as the R. I am told that the GTi may not be as powerful as the R, but it is more fun to drive. Unless I fall in love with the GTi, I will probably get the Mk8R when it is available, but you never know, once owning a GTi I may never go back to the R.
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I love my R. It is the best car I have ever owned (including a 420BHP 4 litre V8 M3). I have taken a leap of faith and not even been inside a GTi. But I am very confident that I will enjoy it, hopefully as much as the R. I am told that the GTi may not be as powerful as the R, but it is more fun to drive. Unless I fall in love with the GTi, I will probably get the Mk8R when it is available, but you never know, once owning a GTi I may never go back to the R.
If you do a bit of searching on here you'll find reviews of each by the same people which will give you some idea. Have a read of this thread, there's a great write up half way down on page 5 you may find of interest: http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=282780.40
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Mine will be 5 years old in July, I’ve had it from new.
Perfect car for me but if VW ever do this to the GTI I couldn’t have another.
I’ve driven plenty of autos/DSG and it’s just not for me.
I really hope the mk8 is offered in manual form.
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I love my R. It is the best car I have ever owned (including a 420BHP 4 litre V8 M3). I have taken a leap of faith and not even been inside a GTi. But I am very confident that I will enjoy it, hopefully as much as the R. I am told that the GTi may not be as powerful as the R, but it is more fun to drive. Unless I fall in love with the GTi, I will probably get the Mk8R when it is available, but you never know, once owning a GTi I may never go back to the R.
Before I bought my gti pp I test drove an R and a GTi back to back. I loved the R but still ordered the pp gti. It's a great car and my only regret is I didn't buy one back in 2013 instead of the Gtd. Pp is worth the money too and I'm sure you'll enjoy it as much as your R.