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Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: Daz Auto on 17 January 2018, 10:23
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In the February 2018 edition of the VW Driver Magazine the Project GTI article is on winter tyres.
The car is a Mk5 GTI Edition 30, modified to produce around 300hp.
I really enjoyed reading the article and would recommend it to anyone considering winter tyres.
Due to copyright I'm not going to copy the article here. However, here is the youtube video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4rO2CIs67g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4rO2CIs67g)
I had to go out yesterday in my GTI on snow and ice. Despite the fact I was crawling I still could not get stopped at the end of the road. I very nearly slid out onto the main road. :sad: So I can report that the Michelin PS4 summer sport tyre are really poor in these conditions, obviously! They are not designed for use on snow and ice, like winter tyres are.
I decided not to risk driving in those conditions again. So I have postponed my work and stayed at home.
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I still find it funny that people don't get winter tyres...
They all think you need deep snow for them....like my mate who just wrote off his Mini paceman 4wd at 20mph...braked for a "T" junction, hit black ice & went straight across & down a ditch & rolled the car...I had told him several times over the past years about winters & all seasons which meet the winter cert (cross climates etc)..
I think he might listen to me now...
I've had winters since the 09-10 winter.....the reason I got them was not snow but an early morning commute across loads of roundabouts (Inverness) & basically black ice & the grit was useless as the temp was -17C ish....the roads were clear of slush/snow...but even with my winter skills it was nerve wracking having to allow twice as long & using the handbrake to create some form of "chock" infront of wheels as ABS won't do that....& everyone else (few people) was have same problems...
I got winters then & there..& have never looked back...safest decision I have ever made & many s the time I have hit black Ice managed to drive through it in control.....on "summers" or general "all seasons" I would have crashed...
All down to the extra silica in the rubber to stop it going hard compared to normal tyres which start going hard at +7C...also the ton on "snipes" cut into the blocks which give more squish grip on turns where the treat block can rotate better & get more grip like deck shoes on fibreglass boats etc..
I just wish that we would follow Germany etc & make it law then we wouldn't be the laughing stock when the roads grind to a halt ever year in a light dusting of snow...snow that ain't snow...when you measure it in metres its snow...
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Just a mile away from my house this is and the lanes down there were so bad I decided not to drive until it had cleared. On top of that I don't have winters so not worth the risk. I like the idea of winter tyres and probably should invest. Its just all of the additional hassle of getting them swapped over for what is most likely never an issue most years.
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Absolutely agree with all of above.
Especially the 7degree stuff where summer tyres basically go hard.
I've driven round many a 4wd in my fwd car with winters fitted.
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Its just all of the additional hassle of getting them swapped over for what is most likely never an issue most years.
So most winters, the temperature doesn't go below +7 degrees C?
Not only do winter tyres provide the best grip in colder conditions, they last longer than summers do when it's colder. In the past, I've started the winter with newish summer tyres, only to find that they need replacing in the spring. I've got 4 winters use out of one set of winter tyres fitted on second hand OEM wheels. Whilst the summer wheels and tyres are sitting in the garage, they are not getting worn out either. It takes less than an hour to change the wheels over each time, so hardly any hassle at all.
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Its just all of the additional hassle of getting them swapped over for what is most likely never an issue most years.
So most winters, the temperature doesn't go below +7 degrees C?
There is a editorial in the VW Driver Magazine article which discusses this. It says that, according to the MET office, for 5 months the UK average temperature is below 7C.
I still find it funny that people don't get winter tyres...
... perceived cost, lack of understanding and experience. Because people believe it is expensive. Because they don't understand all the winter driving advantages. Because they have little experience of snow and ice - especially in the southern half of the UK.
My wife has winter tyres. I know how good winter tyres are, yet I decided not to put winter tyres on my car. :rolleyes: I regretted that decision yesterday. :embarrassed:
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... perceived cost, lack of understanding and experience. Because people believe it is expensive. Because they don't understand all the winter driving advantages. Because they have little experience of snow and ice - especially in the southern half of the UK.
My wife has winter tyres. I know how good winter tyres are, yet I decided not to put winter tyres on my car. :rolleyes: I regretted that decision yesterday. :embarrassed:
My mate who rolled his 4wd car..lives near me & in the back of beyond.....also numerous people I have spoken to over the years who live up here have the attitude of "I manage ok or I don't drive".....bit difficult if you are already driving to somewhere & you hit black ice...
I think the only time people will change is when they crash or have days with serious black ice issues....we have loads of days like that...currently 1inch of snow on ground, gritters have created loads of standing water & damp roads, local council has already over spent the £5million winter budget by £500,000 & have no money to cover until April which is the end of the winter budget time frame..
Loads of black ice will form tonight (low temps) on the roads where gritting is less frequent...& that includes, C, B & some "A" roads...
Like I say people living & driving the same roads as me year after year & still think winters or certified all seasons are a waste of time & expense or hassle....putting money before your life..or someone else's if you crash into them because you can't control your car as on unsuitable tyres...idiots the lot of them...
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Interesting post cheers DA :wink: its been big topic of conversation where I work and whether (from a company car user driving Insignia perspective) we are allowed to get them fitted on our lease motorway munchers. I think I'll investigate costs for a set of alloys with winter tyres for my CS, from a quick look Contis TS tyres perform well...cheers
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Its just all of the additional hassle of getting them swapped over for what is most likely never an issue most years.
So most winters, the temperature doesn't go below +7 degrees C?
There is a editorial in the VW Driver Magazine article which discusses this. It says that, according to the MET office, for 5 months the UK average temperature is below 7C.
I still find it funny that people don't get winter tyres...
... perceived cost, lack of understanding and experience. Because people believe it is expensive. Because they don't understand all the winter driving advantages. Because they have little experience of snow and ice - especially in the southern half of the UK.
My wife has winter tyres. I know how good winter tyres are, yet I decided not to put winter tyres on my car. :rolleyes: I regretted that decision yesterday. :embarrassed:
Perceived costs?? It is expensive and this will be the reason the majority of people don't bother with winter tyres.
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Perceived costs?? It is expensive and this will be the reason the majority of people don't bother with winter tyres.
It needn't cost a penny over time. You can only wear out one set of tyres at a time. Winter tyres last longer through winter than summer tyres too, so they could actually save money. Have them fitted on a set of secondhand wheels that you can sell and get your money back when you change the car, or keep for your next one if they will fit, and there will be no faff with having to have tyres removed and re-fitted every 6 months.
There are people driving round in £20-30-40k cars that can't find the initial money for a set of wheels and tyres that will pay for themselves in the long run? They either haven't got the money to back up their preceived image, or they are too stuborn to listen to facts.
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Perceived costs?? It is expensive and this will be the reason the majority of people don't bother with winter tyres.
It needn't cost a penny over time. You can only wear out one set of tyres at a time. Winter tyres last longer through winter than summer tyres too, so they could actually save money. Have them fitted on a set of secondhand wheels that you can sell and get your money back when you change the car, or keep for your next one if they will fit, and there will be no faff with having to have tyres removed and re-fitted every 6 months.
There are people driving round in £20-30-40k cars that can't find the initial money for a set of wheels and tyres that will pay for themselves in the long run? They either haven't got the money to back up their preceived image, or they are too stuborn to listen to facts.
dubber is right. You can only wear out 1 set of tyres at a time.
Too many people speak to their dealers/garage who quote silly money for winter tyres AND alloys. That is expensive.
For my last car I had a cheap set of 16 inch alloys. They wont fit my new car. Though I did find it a faff having to change the tyres myself. :undecided:
My tiny wife can fit her own winter tyres. She has tyres only and fits them to the original alloys. She has tyre storage bags with handles which keep her and the car clean. The tyre garage agreed to swap them for half price £25. So it is costing her £50 a year for winter tyres. Well worth it for the piece of mind.
There are pros and cons to both methods.
My wife's method has a cheaper initial cost. 4x WinterContact TS 850 16 inch £320, VW tyre storage bags £25 set of 4, annual cost of swapping tyres £50. No alloys. No heavy work. The tyres get balanced twice a year. The car looks the same.
There is an upfront cost, but over time it is costing my wife just £50 a year to have winter tyres on her car.
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After my kerbing incident... :rolleyes:
I bought a set of identical OEM (factory seconds) wheels and will have the best 4 as summer wheels (with Bridgestones) and will then use the worst 4 for winters, will buy tyres in Summer when they are cheap rather than wait until they are "needed".
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After my kerbing incident... :rolleyes:
I bought a set of identical OEM (factory seconds) wheels and will have the best 4 as summer wheels (with Bridgestones) and will then use the worst 4 for winters, will buy tyres in Summer when they are cheap rather than wait until they are "needed".
Good idea.
I'm sure the prices of winter tyres are inflated (excuse the pun) due the conditions. :grin:
A few years back, the tyre garage was unable to get the winter tyres I wanted during the summer. I think it was October before they were able to get them.
Hopefully, the new Continental WinterContact TS 860 S will be available in my tyres size next year.
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Interesting video Daz, good find.
I can understand why people question whether they are worth the expense, but in my opinion they definitely are. And not just in the snow.
I find traction, cornering grip and braking distances all to be noticeably improved in frosty and damp, cold weather. The softer rubber also means they're quieter too.
The £1k 'investment' certainly seems a lot, no denying that. Also storing 4 wheels with tyres when not in use can be a pain if you don't have much space. But as has been said, the costs aren't that great once you've psychologically got over the initial outlay. They should last easily three winters, possibly four. And some of the cost of the wheels can be recovered by resale. Tyres are a consumable, they wear out and eventually need replacing. You need to have four of them on the car at all times anyway, so they may as well be tyres that are best suited to the conditions you're driving in. You can then save your summer tyres for.....summer!
And if you still struggle to justify it, look at some of the items you may have ticked on the options list, and ask yourself how many of them will help keep you out of a ditch when winter does its worst.
Are they absolutely essential? Possibly not. Could I manage without them? Probably, if I had to. But I don't want to just manage. Once you've tried them the benefits are clear, and the costs aren't as great as you may think. So for me it's money well spent.
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It's money well spent if you can afford to purchase them in the first place. I'm sure a lot of people would love a set of winters but just don't have the funds to do it and picking a couple of options on a new car isn't really the same as shelling out circa 1k on winter wheels.
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When you consider that VW charge £1000 to have a set of 19" wheels and tyres INSTEAD of (not as well as) 18's, it's a relative bargain.
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What if you change your car every year or two. The last time I drove on snow before Christmas last year was two cars ago.
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My wife was meeting her girlfriends last night. I was volunteered to drive and had to collect everyone. So gad I was not in my Golf on the summer tyres. They would have been death traps in the icy conditions.
There was black ice in all the housing developments. I was carrying stuff into the last house and the road was like a skating rink. My feet were slipping a lot. The winter tyres on the A3 never spun or skidded. Considering how much black ice there was - the grip from those tyres was amazing.
Earlier in the week, my wife had a conversation with a colleague at work. She also drives an A3 and stated that A3's are really bad on snow. My wife replied that she has winter tyres. The woman said that she also had winter tyres but had not bothered fitting them this winter. :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: Seriously! How stupid is that!
If I do decide to fit winter tyres to my Golf next year I'm hoping it will cost less than £500. I doubt if I will buy alloys :undecided: In the long run my tyres will last twice as long. So the only real cost is getting the tyres swapped twice a year.
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What if you change your car every year or two. The last time I drove on snow before Christmas last year was two cars ago.
If you can afford new cars at that rate you can afford winter tyres too I'd say. :D
@DazAuto
I got a second hand set of Audi A3 wheels and put 2 new winter tyres on (2 were already new winter tyes), all in for 400£. That was 16" ones, 17" will be a little more but not massively.
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What if you change your car every year or two. The last time I drove on snow before Christmas last year was two cars ago.
If you can afford new cars at that rate you can afford winter tyres too I'd say. :D
And if you’ve got winter tyres / winter wheels and they don’t fit your new car, you can sell them. The proceeds of the sale can help fund a set of winters for the new car.
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Its just all of the additional hassle of getting them swapped over for what is most likely never an issue most years.
So most winters, the temperature doesn't go below +7 degrees C?
There is a editorial in the VW Driver Magazine article which discusses this. It says that, according to the MET office, for 5 months the UK average temperature is below 7C.
I still find it funny that people don't get winter tyres...
... perceived cost, lack of understanding and experience. Because people believe it is expensive. Because they don't understand all the winter driving advantages. Because they have little experience of snow and ice - especially in the southern half of the UK.
My wife has winter tyres. I know how good winter tyres are, yet I decided not to put winter tyres on my car. :rolleyes: I regretted that decision yesterday. :embarrassed:
The average UK temperature may well be sub 7c for 5 months of the year but down here in the south east we are the ones experiencing the higher temperatures - this week we have had days at around 10c and for the next 10 days are forecast between 9 and 12. Currently we are at 2c and it is attempting to snow but we are forecast 10c at 2300 tonight! The big problem with posts on the subject of winter tyres is that many are speaking from the pov of living in the colder parts of the UK and can't understand why others can be of a different opinion. Yes, I fully understand the benefits of winter tyres and no, I don't think of them as just snow tyres but, here where I live they would be a nice to have, but not a necessity. I doubt if there are many users round here at all but I don't see cars crashing all over the place. For me, in these conditions, it's just not worth the outlay but if we were to get more consistent colder conditions then I absolutely would consider them.
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The big problem with posts on the subject of winter tyres is that many are speaking from the pov of living in the colder parts of the UK and can't understand why others can be of a different opinion. Yes, I fully understand the benefits of winter tyres...
... nail head hit.
Conversely, many people who live in the southern half of the UK are speaking from their experience and don't understand why anyone in the UK would need winter tyres.
Even the years when the entire country does not get much snow - there are often several weeks of icy conditions in the northern half of the UK. Usually accompanied by a lot of accidents.
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Its just all of the additional hassle of getting them swapped over for what is most likely never an issue most years.
So most winters, the temperature doesn't go below +7 degrees C?
There is a editorial in the VW Driver Magazine article which discusses this. It says that, according to the MET office, for 5 months the UK average temperature is below 7C.
I still find it funny that people don't get winter tyres...
... perceived cost, lack of understanding and experience. Because people believe it is expensive. Because they don't understand all the winter driving advantages. Because they have little experience of snow and ice - especially in the southern half of the UK.
My wife has winter tyres. I know how good winter tyres are, yet I decided not to put winter tyres on my car. :rolleyes: I regretted that decision yesterday. :embarrassed:
The average UK temperature may well be sub 7c for 5 months of the year but down here in the south east we are the ones experiencing the higher temperatures - this week we have had days at around 10c and for the next 10 days are forecast between 9 and 12. Currently we are at 2c and it is attempting to snow but we are forecast 10c at 2300 tonight! The big problem with posts on the subject of winter tyres is that many are speaking from the pov of living in the colder parts of the UK and can't understand why others can be of a different opinion. Yes, I fully understand the benefits of winter tyres and no, I don't think of them as just snow tyres but, here where I live they would be a nice to have, but not a necessity. I doubt if there are many users round here at all but I don't see cars crashing all over the place. For me, in these conditions, it's just not worth the outlay but if we were to get more consistent colder conditions then I absolutely would consider them.
Which is why I don't get them anymore. The last time I had winter tyres was on my old Volvo when I was travelling up to Scotland at least twice a month.
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Talking of snow, we had a lot before Christmas and even this weekend. And I live in the Southern half of the UK.... :whistle:
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Talking of snow, we had a lot before Christmas and even this weekend. And I live in the Southern half of the UK.... :whistle:
This sums up what we've had adequately :rolleyes:
(https://s18.postimg.org/vfvkdcko9/3_C18_C50300000578-0-image-a-4_1484300501803.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Amazingly Heathrow still experienced major disruption despite having invested in a gritting/ploughing centre a few years ago...
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That's all you need if you're on summer tyres and there is a slight hill.
Photo below was before Christmas just outside of Brighton, road far from being covered in snow.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/ny9qUG/summer_tyres_in_the_snow_result.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ny9qUG)
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I think some benefit of the doubt should be given to the fact people realise that it’s horses for different courses depending on where in the uk you live. As someone who’s lived for many years in both the north (Yorkshire, Lancashire) and south of the country (Wiltshire, Somerset, Kent) I can see both perspectives equally and if I was currently residing in the northern or colder parts of the country I would undoubtedly have winter tyres fitted. But, in the south east, and I’m right in the far corner where we even seem to miss what other parts of the south east get, Watts is spot on, he does sum it up perfectly to an extent. As with him, I don’t think of winter tyres as purely snow tyres, I know it’s about damp conditions, low temps etc etc, however in recent years this far down winter tyes have not been a necessity, if you drive with care and attention. But elsewhere it could be a different story.
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That's all you need if you're on summer tyres and there is a slight hill.
Photo below was before Christmas just outside of Brighton, road far from being covered in snow.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/ny9qUG/summer_tyres_in_the_snow_result.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ny9qUG)
Did they crash because there was a tiny bit of snow or because they were a crap driver.
Touch wood the last time I had crash that was my fault was well over 500k miles ago.
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I'd assume a combination of both. Most likely if I had asked they'd have punched me in the face :grin:
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Obviously, all it takes is 1 nights frost and 1 patch of black ice for accidents to happen.
Over the years, I have noticed that sudden cold snaps with frost seem to catch people out. Many people don't appear to associate frost with danger. They don't drive according to the conditions. Many of them will be too young and/or inexperienced to realise the danger.
Back on the subject of winter tyres. Our last winter tyres were not good in warmer weather. We have both noticed a big improvement with the current Continental TS 850 tyres. In fact it was over 20C last year before I remembered to put the summer tyres back on the A3.
I am curious to see what a performance winter tyre would be like on my car. :nerd:
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Which ones did you have before?
My Michelin A4 were still decent in warm weather last year, the other ones I had were Avon IceTouring ST which were just sh!te in warm weather. They had poor tread design and to compensate they made them very soft, as soon as you got to 15 degrees they just smeared all over.
Got Nokian WR A4 now on all four corners now and they easily match the Michelins in performance.
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Which ones did you have before?
I think they were the old Dunlop Ultra Grip 7. 16 inch on my Mk6 GTD and 15 inch on our Mk5 Golf Match. Not good above 12C.
I was just reading about the new Continental TS 860 S UHP winter tyres. It appears that they are focused more on dry braking and handling. The standard touring tyres appear to have better extreme weather performance. :huh:
(http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/public/tyres/Continental-WinterContact-TS-860-S-Performance.jpg)
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I bought a set of Conti winter tyres for my Mk6 GTi in 2013. Used them that winter and the following one when I put them on a set of Team Dynamics wheels I bought. Probably about a grand all in. I then had a Passat for 2 years until we both changed cars so they sat in my mum's garage. My wife then got a MK7 R and the wheels are the same size as the GTi so we've put them on that this winter and without having any real deep snow we've had enough to justify having them on. Especially as my car is a 330d which is utterly useless after even a flake of snow. The R just goes about its business with no trouble at all. Even today we've been out in it. Not one slip at all in the snow and slush.
I'm totally convinced by them.
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Over the weekend the ski centers were packed....& loads of people in cars on summer tryes getting stuck & crashing again....Glencoe was very bad...also the Council haven't been gritting (no surprise there as they have spent their £5million winter gritting budget & £500,000 more & still have until April to cover)..
Basically if you want to travel up here to ski & its snowing fit winter tyres as you are liable to cause huge traffic problem for everyone else...
Post on this from this page onwards re Glencoe
http://www.winterhighland.info/forum/read.php?2,173932,page=9
& BBC roughly reporting it..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-42760394
About time we did as other countires do..want to drive to the ski resorts? you have to have certain tyres &/or chains...otherwise the police stop you...
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Maybe Ultragrip 7 are made for very cold weather.
I know e.g. Nokian Hakkapeliitta are made for arctic climate, brilliant in -20 but at +15 they are crap (even the non-stud ones).
Conti 860 will probably be good, never had a bad Conti tyre tbh. Would also look at Nokian WR A4 (or even the D4, though A4 are probably more suitable for wet weather - and no I don't get commission from Nokian :D ).
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I swear by winter tyres for the initial costs which aren't that bad unless your wanting a stock look like on 18s and winter tyres which get expensive.
I bought a set of steelies off Mr wintertyres wirh tyres cost me over 400 quid had the tyres swapped onto some alloys now just gotta sell the steeliestimate now.
Not wanting to hijack the post but if anyone is interested in a set for winter see here.
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=282703.msg2581025#msg2581025
I know over the recent weeks when we've had the snow it's reassuring to have some winter rubber down instead of the P zeros :whistle:
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Only issue is the ones with PP can't use anything smaller than a 17" wheel so steels are no good.
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Only issue is the ones with PP can't use anything smaller than a 17" wheel so steels are no good.
Yeah good point non PP for 16's because of the bigger brake callipers
'''' Ammended '''' :whistle: