GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: Sootchucker on 23 October 2017, 11:39
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Hi all - first and foremost, please don't let this thread descend into a Diesel vs Petrol - "which one is better thread, and diesel's are for tractors" etc. thread. This is a serious question.
I've been pondering this for some months now. I'm over half way though my PCP on my current GTD, and to be honest, I still love it. It has a great mix of decent (enough) performance, great looks (with the carbon grey and 19" Santiago's) and great fuel economy (my fuelly average is currently 47.3mpg), which is pretty good considering that 90% of my miles are my daily commute between home and work (and back) through a busy town center with few real free motorway miles.
But (and it's a big but), we all know that over the last few months, diesel cars are being demonized and (rather unfairly for modern diesels) have fallen out of favour. I know that there are plans afoot to limit access to major city centers in the coming years to certain types and ages of diesel vehicles (not sure about Euro 6 category models though).
I therefore have a choice coming up in the next year or so. I can
a) give the car back and walk away (unlikely),
b) trade the car in for a newer car (using any collateral - if any) against the new car (would then be a petrol).
c) Pay off the balloon payment and just run the car.
Now all options are valid and as I say, I have time to consider, but what got me wondering was this. For me to get say a new GTI (to a similar as possible spec to mine) next year, would list at around £34.5k (assuming no price increases just for this argument). After discount I'd maybe get it for around £29-30k. My car is currently worth (trade in) approx £20k (from speaking to the dealer this weekend), with a good chunk of that still on finance, so only about £1k collateral). That would mean me refinancing nearly £30k again to get out of a GTD into a GTI - which is a lot of money. Even more if I go for my second choice - a new Tiguan R-Line (which I do really like) - unless my figures are totally out ?
Conversely, I could pay off the balloon payment (circa £13k) with money I already have say in my account, and get a really nice 3 year old car which would have around 25k miles - for £13k but...it's a diesel.
Now I know none of us have a crystal ball and know what will be happening to diesels over the next few years (higher road tax, more expensive fuel ???, more restrictions), but maybe, the same will also happen to any non PHEV, Hybrid and Electric type vehicles as well - who knows?
Based upon the above, and bearing in mind as I say, I do like the car and I'm not anti-diesel ( I know a lot of you on here are), what would you do. Keep the car and run it for 6 years until the new MK8 performance models are available (possible with hybrid technology), or get rid sooner rather than later and get into a petrol or hybrid car now. I'm only doing around 10k miles per years, so whilst additional fuel costs for a petrol vs diesel won't in the real world be that much - the cost to change would.
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There's a 'd' option which is apt in being re-finance for a new GTD? Clearly you are very happy with the car, if you don't mind having the same again then why not? Are you aware of any plans locally for banning diesels? These things take a long time to take effect and anyway I think would be unlikely to affect euro 6 cars, certainly not if you only keep the next one for 3 years. Also by financing you have the gfv to protect you if the bottom falls out of the market which I doubt anyway. Just as an example, the new T-charge came into effect today in London and although petrol, my OH's 2003 Lupo isn't liable nor would my previous car have been, a 2003 A4 2.4 petrol! Which surprised me. Another option worth considering is a lease if you can get a good deal.
There you go, I'm a confirmed petrol lover (never owned a diesel) and not a disparaging word uttered :smiley: (against the devil's fuel) :whistle:
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It's all still personal opinion.
What I will say, I sold my Q3 diesel to buy a GTI... because in MY opinion, diesel will continue to be vilified and the price gap even at the pump will get bigger. It's currently (in my area) 3p per litre more to buy diesel.
I also only do 8-10k miles a year and so therefore, the "MPG" savings don't really add up for me.
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First off, I must admit to getting out of my GTD, for a GTI, about 18 months ago, when the change in feelings for diesels first became apparent. This was mainly because I had never fully bonded with the GTD, but also because of my fears of the diesel car market crashing.
Since then that market hasn't really crashed, especially for cars like the GTD - they've taken a hit, but not a massive one. Those of us with an understanding of the cars and the technology won't be put off by Daily Mail scare stories and know a good real world car, like the GTD, so they will always retain value and will probably recover when the DM finds another bone to chew.
Like you, I don't think I would buy another new diesel car, but that doesn't mean that a good, modern and therefore relatively clean diesel car is a bad thing to own. There will always be a market for them. If I was in your position, right now, I would do the sums and act accordingly. I don't think there is any need to panic!
The Inner London "T" charge, announced today, only applies to Euro 4 diesels, and earlier, so the Euro 6 GTD is exempt and recognised as being more than clean enough.
Just a thought, should we be thanking VW and Dieselgate for raising the very real threat of NOx pollution over here in Europe, where we were quite happily thinking we were doing fine, just controlling CO2?
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Hardly worth having the oil burner with ~8k per annum is it?
I decided to have another oil burner for another three years recently because it definitely is cheaper for me to run by a fair old bit and the extra petrol performance isn't something I've had or been bothered about for the last 25 years, so its not bothering me now - especially since having my previous GTD was such a joy.
Next time? I would almost certainly say its not going to be an oil burner.... with my timing I am hoping that the Mk8 will have something different to offer... in my mind perhaps a mild hybrid GTI? I suspect that won't happen though.
As for future running costs, well, every damned thing keeps going up, except my wages.
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Just some more food for thought;-
There will still be reasonable demand for well looked after modern diesel cars for a good few years yet whilst we wait for hybrid / electric vehicle technology to catch up to where it needs to be to be a viable alternative for high mileage drivers.
It's not only diesel that's on its way out. For example Oxford is banning both petrol and diesel cars from the city centre from 2020, and they probably won't be the only ones. The government is wanting to ban the sale of new petrol and diesel cars from 2040 onwards, but there'll probably still be a few million of them on the road - no mention of banning them from the road altogether.
Government policy changes with each new government, who knows what policy will actually be in 23 years time? Hopefully i'll be retired by then, but of course that all depends on government policy!
If you're bothered about saving money i'd stick with what you have, at least until the Mk8 arrives.
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Thanks guys. Some interesting views. Weirdly enough, when I ordered my current GTD, it was actually a GTI :laugh: :laugh: I changed the order just before it got locked in as my work office was due to move resulting in a much larger commute which would have meant 15-18k per year. Based on that I changed it for another GTD.
Then sods law, just after the car was delivered, my company rearranged another 10 year lease on the current building, hence my only 9-10k a year. TBH, as some of you have said, the GTD is still a bloody good car and plenty of economical fun, but if I'm being 100% honest with myself, it will be my last diesel. Any future car will most certainly be either Petrol or hybrid (if it improves enough). Tis' a shame though as compared to his peers, the GTD is one of the better and fastest of the "warm" diesel hatches.
Definitely food for thought, but as I said, I do have time still.
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I'm not even thinking about a non-dinosaur burner until we get to 2040. There is a lot of technology distance to cover between now and then and definitely any "alternative fuel" technology is massively in its infancy yet.
Assuming I continue to change my car every three years its both irrelevant now and irrelevant for some time yet.
Trying to guess what is desirable in 2040 (and assuming that even happens!) would be like trying to future proof your computer 23 years ago!
Besides which, I heard some air pollution nutter banging on about the problem next being brake dust and tyre rubber particles - I'm not quite sure how she imagines her bloody food is going to arrive if its not on wheeled road transport of some f'ing kind! Such sorts live in cloud cuckoo land, which is usually located in central London....
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i'm sure i will regret this, or enjoy the replies - but why is a GTE not an option.
similar performance to a GTD (in a straight line at least)
better residual values, so cheaper.
you could lease it if you don't trust the tech.
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As you know I wanted a GTi :smiley: but because of milage I opted for a GTD and by the time I collected it my milage had gone from 50-60k a year to less than 10k :rolleyes:
Over the weekend I was driving a GTi and after getting back into mine it felt slow mainly because of the way I drive riding the torque band, the GTD is a great car for what it is. I wouldn't worry about these T charges with our modern diesels.
If I were you I'd stick with the car if your happy with it but I'm not sure I'd keep it after the warranty has run out.
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i'm sure i will regret this, or enjoy the replies - but why is a GTE not an option.
Ahhh now, I knew someone who used to work with me who had one...
When fully charged, its reasonably capable! When running just on petrol its got a small engine and a heavy old battery.
Great, so you just make sure you've got a charge right? Well, travelling distances, backward looking employers, stupid charging durations and houses without drives kinda stick the boot into that one.
I'm sure for some city dwellers its fine, but probably if you live in a city and rarely leave it either E-Golf (which ironically VW have dropped) or just use the bloody bus/tram/tube is a better bet anyway.
As I said, I'd consider any of the current crop of technology to be like buying a thirty grand Psion web phone when the Iphone is coming... I'm sure the science museum would buy it eventually for their forthcoming exhibition "how we failed to quit fossil fuel before the fusion reactor came along"
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BTW, the one thing that definitely will change by 2040 (or whatever the date finally is) is a replacement tax for fuel duty.
Fuel duty is one of the "big 5" sources of UK government revenue and there is no way they are giving that up without a heavy impact - its quite close to the revenue from corporation tax!
So, somehow they will need to find a way of extracting that same figure from the tax payers.
Possible ideas:
1) Increase VED
2) Force car charging to be metered differently so "vehicle electric use" is taxable by unit consumed
And then factor in the idea that longer term "less people will even use cars altogether" and those of us stuck outside of city centres will have a massive tax hike to pay for an entire country of road infrastructure between us. Its quite possible in my mind that non-city areas become devoid of much habitation altogether, much like pre-railway UK.