GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: scanesare on 21 September 2017, 22:36
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So, last Saturday I decided the car is old enough to experience its first proper track-day (I had been to that VW Clubsport training event by VW in May but that wasn't really driving at 10/10, more like short exercises and a few moderately fast laps) and also having been at this track twice before with my last car I was eager to see how different the CS would be. For reference, previous car was a 2010 Skoda Fabia vRS 1.4 TSI (twincharger - identical power and drive-train as previous Polo GTI and Ibiza Cupra) with lots of mods both in engine and suspension: stage 2 230ps, uprated springs, dampers, arb's, bushes, brake pads, and federal semi-slicks to top it off, it went really well on track, on the road it had become rather uncomfortable.
Back to the CS, I thought I'd go cool this time without actually chasing lap times, that's why I asked a friend to join. Well, that lasted until the first two sessions that I realised I was merely matching the modded Fabia's best time and then decided to get serious :lipsrsealed: Unloaded my passenger ( I mean I waited for the session to end - I didn't just throw him out the car) and thought: to hell with those crappy Bridgestones anyway, the sooner they get worn out the better for the Michelins that will supersede them. Anyway, the car felt quite nice overall, handling seemed less tiring than in the Fabia despite being fully stock suspension wise, lsd definitely noticeable where in the past I was just scrubbing speed when flooring it too early, and also brakes didn't seem to have any issue with 4 hot laps followed by 2 cool-down ones for each session, well impressed by them. I think an upgraded rear ARB plus the CSS swivels at the front with their extra camber would suit the car just perfect for track or hard road use, didn't feel I need to do anything more than that, the balance is nicely set up from factory for the most part. Plus, on your way back home you can just drop it in Comfort and completely forget you're in a track-capable car.
At the end of the day, without still pushing at 10/10 as I was doing with the Fabia (more things at risk with this car) but quite close to it, I shove 6 tenths off my best time but it has to be said that (here go the excuses :grin:) that track is awfully narrow and slow, with only two short straights and mostly tight hairpins that don't allow powerful cars to show their potential, I remember I was more or less keeping up with BMW 1M's and Carreras in the Fabia.
Overall very good fun, driving hard on a track is the only way to feel what the car is trully capable of and maybe now thinking of those couple suspension upgrades for next spring more seriously.
https://youtu.be/IBchF3r3WnY (https://youtu.be/IBchF3r3WnY)
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Forgot to show how tires looked after. I had lowered the pressures to 36psi prior starting and after each hot session they rose to ~41 psi so I believe pressure wise I was fine. Still, at the end of the day there is uneven wear that grows as you move towards the outside of the tire, as you can see the grooves depth in the photo, the one on the inside has around 4.5mm left, whereas the outside one measures 3.2-3.3mm so that's more than 1mm of wear difference that formed. Camber plates or CSS swivels anyone? Probably next spring together with the PS4(S).
(https://i.imgur.com/r4Ph8n3.jpg)
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The guy in the Mk1 was being a bit of a knobhead not letting you past. He was also afraid of apex’s.
Good to see the car where it should, on a track. You should try keeping your hands in the one place on the steering wheel though.
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The guy in the Mk1 was being a bit of a knobhead not letting you past. He was also afraid of apex’s.
Good to see the car where it should, on a track. You should try keeping your hands in the one place on the steering wheel though.
Wasn't he a little bit? I mean he must have noticed I was already backing off to not get too close to him so at that straight I expected him to leave enough space from the left, probably he got excited at the prospect of overtaking that 350Z... I could have forced an overtake earlier but no way I was going to risk something so I waited. There were 3 MK1's like that, fully stripped inside and with several mods as I could see, some local club I think.
Was I moving them too much? Thought I'd got mostly rid of that habbit but watching the vid again I could probably do with less movement. I also wanted to remove the sweat at some points, which reminds me I should invest in a pair of gloves for the track, especially given the alcantara wheel.
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Forgot to show how tires looked after. I had lowered the pressures to 36psi prior starting
Lowered the pressure?? What did you have it at? My Mk7.5 on 18's is 36psi all round for road use...
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Forgot to show how tires looked after. I had lowered the pressures to 36psi prior starting
Lowered the pressure?? What did you have it at? My Mk7.5 on 18's is 36psi all round for road use...
Interesting. Recommended values on the Clubsport are 38 all round for 2 passengers no load and I run 38 front/ 40 rear for that bit more lively rear end. I dropped them to 35 / 37 actually, measured after the first session they were right back at 38-39 so all good.
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I know someone on here said that the VW recommended pressures went up on the 7.5 - possibly something to do with emissions?
I've never done a track day in my own car, so am curious that you only dropped the psi a small bit and that it only came back up a small bit too. I'd always figured it would need to come down 2 maybe 3 psi?
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Did you take hot pressures when you came off the track?
Looks like its understeering in the vid.
Could probably find you quite a bit of time in that lap.
Drop me a PM if you are interested.
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I know someone on here said that the VW recommended pressures went up on the 7.5 - possibly something to do with emissions?
I've never done a track day in my own car, so am curious that you only dropped the psi a small bit and that it only came back up a small bit too. I'd always figured it would need to come down 2 maybe 3 psi?
It would seem the other way round if recommended pressures for 225/40/r18 are 38 all round for 2 people and no/minimum load on the Clubsport and 36 on the 7.5?
3 psi is exactly what I removed, from 38 to 35 at the front, and from 40 to 37 at the rear, and it came back to: 38 front 39 rear roughly. That track is just 2km long and only did 3-4 hot laps followed by two cool-down laps, not driving at full 10/10 either. Obviously with prolonged pushing the differences will be higher but for the use I did, the pressure removed/recovered seemed just right.
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Did you take hot pressures when you came off the track?
Looks like its understeering in the vid.
Could probably find you quite a bit of time in that lap.
Drop me a PM if you are interested.
I took them right after the cool-down lap which probably is a bit lower than what the tires was seeing during the hot laps. Didn't feel that much understeering tbh. Sure, I'm open to advice and I agree I could've found some more time especially if I could brake harder and earlier than I did, I think I was carrying excessive speed into the slower corners and only ended up being slower as a result. The extra power didn't help there I guess. You will have PM, cheers.
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Over inflated tyres, over heated tyres and over steer
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Good video Scanesare, I really like the dual aspect.
No comments on the driving as it's been many years since my last car track day but my Clubsport will get and outing in the spring. Was it a case the tyres simply went off Later in the session as the understeer seems more pronounced towards during the later laps, or you were pushing harder after the MK1 golf hold up.
You mentioned the CSS ARB and swivels as upgrades - just a general question, theoretically what are people's view on the VW warranty position if you upgraded the CS with CSS parts as the models are so close.
PS - what the hell are swivels?? Ball joints?
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Forgot to show how tires looked after. I had lowered the pressures to 36psi prior starting
Lowered the pressure?? What did you have it at? My Mk7.5 on 18's is 36psi all round for road use...
My 7.5 came with 38 all round on 18's
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I know someone on here said that the VW recommended pressures went up on the 7.5 - possibly something to do with emissions?
I've never done a track day in my own car, so am curious that you only dropped the psi a small bit and that it only came back up a small bit too. I'd always figured it would need to come down 2 maybe 3 psi?
That was me but I could be very wrong.
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The guy in the Mk1 was being a bit of a knobhead not letting you past. He was also afraid of apex’s.
Good to see the car where it should, on a track. You should try keeping your hands in the one place on the steering wheel though.
Wasn't he a little bit? I mean he must have noticed I was already backing off to not get too close to him so at that straight I expected him to leave enough space from the left, probably he got excited at the prospect of overtaking that 350Z... I could have forced an overtake earlier but no way I was going to risk something so I waited. There were 3 MK1's like that, fully stripped inside and with several mods as I could see, some local club I think.
Was I moving them too much? Thought I'd got mostly rid of that habbit but watching the vid again I could probably do with less movement. I also wanted to remove the sweat at some points, which reminds me I should invest in a pair of gloves for the track, especially given the alcantara wheel.
A bit more than being a bit of a knobhead, and that is just for his driving let alone striping out a Mk1, a Mk2 maybe and Mk3&4 No problem.
As for forcing an overtake, don't. I learned the hard way on the ring :rolleyes:
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Over inflated tyres, over heated tyres and over steer
Lol, did you actually see the video and the attached photo? Just to repeat, pressures where right where they should be even after the hot laps (38-39 psi is hardly over-inflation when 38 is recommended all round). Wear is nowhere near what is typically recognised as over-inflation which is much more wear in the middle (mine wore all the way from the inside to outside linearly with more wear towards the outside) but what definitely wasn't the case was oversteer, I wonder where you picked that up. As one can see in the vid car was mostly neutral with hints of understeer at the tightest, slower corners (Presumably triggered by my late braking...)
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Nive vid! :)
Yes you got a awsome car!, but that track is tricky!. We meet att Mantorp i May! ;)..
S
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A bit more than being a bit of a knobhead, and that is just for his driving let alone striping out a Mk1, a Mk2 maybe and Mk3&4 No problem.
As for forcing an overtake, don't. I learned the hard way on the ring :rolleyes:
Yeah, was never going to, that would be absolutely dumb in a car like this and no actual racing taking place. Of-course crashing his car probably didn't mean half as much to him as it would mean to me crashing the CS so that's why I thought chill, let him go on and there will be other spots.
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Nive vid! :)
Yes you got a awsome car!, but that track is tricky!. We meet att Mantorp i May! ;)..
S
Yeah it's actually too narrow, short and super hard on the brakes and I always feel bad for them in every car, even more in the CS, but it's only 25min from me. Mantorp is much nicer, I was there at the "VW Clubsport driving experience" event in May, the problem is it's 4hrs drive... but for a meeting I wouldn't say no.
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A bit more than being a bit of a knobhead, and that is just for his driving let alone striping out a Mk1, a Mk2 maybe and Mk3&4 No problem.
As for forcing an overtake, don't. I learned the hard way on the ring :rolleyes:
Yeah, was never going to, that would be absolutely dumb in a car like this and no actual racing taking place. Of-course crashing his car probably didn't mean half as much to him as it would mean to me crashing the CS so that's why I thought chill, let him go on and there will be other spots.
With me I mistakenly thought the other cars indicator was a go to pass, I was wrong at over 120mph
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Good video Scanesare, I really like the dual aspect.
No comments on the driving as it's been many years since my last car track day but my Clubsport will get and outing in the spring. Was it a case the tyres simply went off Later in the session as the understeer seems more pronounced towards during the later laps, or you were pushing harder after the MK1 golf hold up.
You mentioned the CSS ARB and swivels as upgrades - just a general question, theoretically what are people's view on the VW warranty position if you upgraded the CS with CSS parts as the models are so close.
PS - what the hell are swivels?? Ball joints?
Thanks Paul, in past track days that I had recorded I always felt the usual view showing the front of the car made the driving look too slow, or at least much slower than it was in the reality. The in-car cam does a better job at showing the actual speed and combined with the front view I think it makes for a nice combo. Total PITA though to post-process, combine, edit, and sync everything with the telemetry...
I pushed more towards the end yes but not in the best way, still scrubbing speed and beating the tires a lot. With the JB1 in that track, as soon as you ve gained some momentum (a lot of it) you have to brake hard and I was hesitating to do it at 100% to preserve the pads.
Swivels or hub carriers I think, English is not even my mother tongue, it's the part that is mounted to the wheel on one side and has the shock absorber mounted on top of it, this picture will surely give you the idea:
(http://i.imgur.com/7rX9TBz.jpg)
Not sure what happens warranty wise if you fit CSS parts on a CS, in reality I doubt you'll ever have to worry about warranty work in that area.