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Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: JamesR27 on 28 July 2017, 08:34

Title: DCC with 19" Alloys, is it worth it?
Post by: JamesR27 on 28 July 2017, 08:34
Hi, It's getting to the 4 year mark with my car so looking at options to upgrade. Just wondering what the good people on here think about the ride quality on the 19" options.

This time I thinking after having 3 GTI's of getting an R with Pretoria's if that helps.
Title: Re: DCC with 19" Alloys, is it worth it?
Post by: fredgroves on 28 July 2017, 09:02
Having just ditched DCC on my new GTD, I can't say I've felt the need to have it at all.

Sure I've only got 18's but the 19's ride harder full stop, even with DCC. I did test drive a GTD with 19's and no DCC originally and it was well, a bit different, but..

Because you can't really experience with and without very easily (unless your local dealers have demo R's that have that config), you'll never really know.

I'm not saying DCC is utterly pointless, I'm just saying that if it breaks the budget, dropping it won't be a disaster.

No performance Golf in OEM guise has a truly harsh ride, they simply are more refined than that.
Title: Re: DCC with 19" Alloys, is it worth it?
Post by: Wide on 28 July 2017, 09:26
I think it´s a option you can´t miss.. :wink:. How much is it in UK?..

I have 19" and the ride in Comfort mode is Crazy smooth.. In my individual mode ia have everting in Sport, and the ride in Comfort. It great when yoy drive fast on bumpy country roads.. :grin:

Title: Re: DCC with 19" Alloys, is it worth it?
Post by: fredgroves on 28 July 2017, 09:54
900 quid...

Title: Re: DCC with 19" Alloys, is it worth it?
Post by: Watts on 28 July 2017, 10:06
I haven't tried DCC but have no complaints with mine on 19s without. I'd be surprised if this thread will be of any use to your decision as you will get the full spectrum of possible answers. Bottom line is, do you want to spend the extra £900?
Title: Re: DCC with 19" Alloys, is it worth it?
Post by: itavaltalainen on 28 July 2017, 10:14
I notice not having DCC in cornering ability, if I drive it harshly.
Also it was much smoother on the concrete hell of M42 and M25 (used in comfort mode).
Title: Re: DCC with 19" Alloys, is it worth it?
Post by: mcmaddy on 28 July 2017, 10:55
I test drove an R on Pretoria's before buying my gti and I felt it was an excellent ride without DCC. I think the extra weight of the 4wd system just makes the R feel more planted. I did however spec DCC on my pp gti and don't regret it as it just gives you a bit more choice.
Title: Re: DCC with 19" Alloys, is it worth it?
Post by: Sootchucker on 28 July 2017, 11:11
Both my GTD's have had DCC (the first White one with 18"'s and the current Grey one with 19"'s).

TBH, I've never driven a MK7 therefore without DCC, but I was amazed when I got the White car how good is was in comfort mode. With the current car I was expecting to have to put it in comfort mode all the time, but much to my surprise, even in standard (or even sport" mode, the car is still very compliment, and doesn't feel a whole lot different to the 18"s. Yes there is a difference and yes it's a little harsher over the bumps, but not by much.

I'm glad I have it, but based upon trying it in all the various settings, I'm not 100% it really is needed (more a nice to have) :-)
Title: Re: DCC with 19" Alloys, is it worth it?
Post by: Exonian on 28 July 2017, 13:03
I thought my R on 19's actually rode more smoothly than my GTI PP did and neither of those cars had DCC.

£900 up front is a fair few quid but spread over several years if you're taking finance is less painful in small chunks if you want to look at it that way.

Personally I'd not bother but there are those that say they couldn't live without it (which I find a bit odd unless they have a spectacularly bad back, in which case I'd think the G-forces of a performance car being used as it should/would outweigh suspension discomfort on many levels).
I've had quite a few GTI's over many years that have had suspension kits (I was young once) and never appreciated the harder ride of most kits yet put up with it for improved dynamics and looks (as the factory suspension in those days wasn't the car's strongest point), plus the cars were all bought used so had a few miles on them therefore I was just replacing worn components in some ways. Since the mk5 I've not found any need for a suspension kit as the factory suspension is very good.
it's always under appreciated that it's the springs that do more for the ride quality on British roads than the dampers. If the springs are stiff you get a crashy ride and if they're soft you get a bouncy ride. The standard springs are somewhere in the middle and the standard dampers are fine for normal road use iMO. If you intend to do trackdays then firmer damping is a must so I'd 100% spec DCC if that was the case.
Title: Re: DCC with 19" Alloys, is it worth it?
Post by: CHB100 on 28 July 2017, 15:18
Well on a standard GTI I would recommend it with or with either 18/19s

I had it on a Mk6 and now on the R and my wife's Mk7 doesn't have it.

Thing is the R rides incredibly well in whatever mode on 19"s. So yes I would opt again for the comfort mode especially on Motorways where there are no tight bends!, also on very bad surfaces. But mostly Normal is perfect. Also I intend keeping the car for sometime. So cost dissipates.

Up to you on a 19" R maybe (it drives well on 18"s too) on a 18/19" GTI for sure IMO
Title: Re: DCC with 19" Alloys, is it worth it?
Post by: gti_travels on 26 August 2017, 08:00
I didn't order DCC and am regretting it... I've got a bit tired of the hard ride during a couple of motorway drives on my 19"s, although I'm trying to put a few miles on the engine before really opening it up so perhaps I'll care less about the ride when I start using a bit more throttle...
Title: Re: DCC with 19" Alloys, is it worth it?
Post by: hog_hedge on 26 August 2017, 23:28
I'm running on 19s without DCC and I think the ride is perfect. It's all a matter of opinion though, that's the only problem. If I had the spare cash and could go back to the day I ordered I still wouldn't have specced it though because I think the ride is that good as standard.
Title: Re: DCC with 19" Alloys, is it worth it?
Post by: CocoPops on 27 August 2017, 08:33
I ordered it with 18s, so would DEFINITELY have had it with 19s.

For me, the car is a daily driver, jack of all trades so I want soft comfort and hard sports.
Title: Re: DCC with 19" Alloys, is it worth it?
Post by: mezzer123 on 27 August 2017, 09:03
I'm running on 19s without DCC and I think the ride is perfect. It's all a matter of opinion though, that's the only problem. If I had the spare cash and could go back to the day I ordered I still wouldn't have specced it though because I think the ride is that good as standard.

👆I'm of the same opinion☝️
Title: Re: DCC with 19" Alloys, is it worth it?
Post by: andy28 on 27 August 2017, 12:24
I'm running on 19s without DCC and I think the ride is perfect. It's all a matter of opinion though, that's the only problem. If I had the spare cash and could go back to the day I ordered I still wouldn't have specced it though because I think the ride is that good as standard.

👆I'm of the same opinion☝️

Yeah me too, perfect as it is
Title: Re: DCC with 19" Alloys, is it worth it?
Post by: Wide on 27 August 2017, 19:59
I drive in comfort on the DCC always in town, hate the bad roads that smashes my new 19".. :grin:

Title: Re: DCC with 19" Alloys, is it worth it?
Post by: Bubba Nutkin on 27 August 2017, 20:29
If I was buying another new Golf, DCC would be the first option I'd tick.  I test drove cars without it, specified it on my car, and the difference is noticeable.  I'm impressed.  I also drive a Range Rover, and the low speed ride in my Golf isn't far off the RR, seriously.  OK I have 18 inch wheels on the Golf but I'm "sold" on DCC.
Title: Re: DCC with 19" Alloys, is it worth it?
Post by: Wide on 28 August 2017, 05:51
If I was buying another new Golf, DCC would be the first option I'd tick.  I test drove cars without it, specified it on my car, and the difference is noticeable.  I'm impressed.  I also drive a Range Rover, and the low speed ride in my Golf isn't far off the RR, seriously.  OK I have 18 inch wheels on the Golf but I'm "sold" on DCC.

I agree, the DCC must be better now?!. Think the ride in Comfort and my 19" inch, is smother than my old Volvo V70.. :grin: :grin:
Title: Re: DCC with 19" Alloys, is it worth it?
Post by: Lustral on 28 August 2017, 08:46
Running 19s with DCC on my R. Almost coming up to a year ownership now and I would spec it again. Mostly in Normal mode with occasions on Comfort.
Title: Re: DCC with 19" Alloys, is it worth it?
Post by: Wide on 28 August 2017, 08:54
If you buy a GTI i think that you should buy all performace part that VW offer from start (DCC, PP,)  :wink:

As the Performace Pack! , in Sweden VW have understand that and only sell the Performance Pack to all the GTIs... :wink:

Am I a little cheeky now?  :wink: :grin:..Sorry guys..
Title: Re: DCC with 19" Alloys, is it worth it?
Post by: fredgroves on 28 August 2017, 20:13
I had dcc on my last gtd and ditched it at the last minute on my new one. I've only had 18's but honestly I've not missed it once and I'm nine hundred quid up :-)
Title: Re: DCC with 19" Alloys, is it worth it?
Post by: CHB100 on 29 August 2017, 08:42
I had dcc on my last gtd and ditched it at the last minute on my new one. I've only had 18's but honestly I've not missed it once and I'm nine hundred quid up :-)

The R with DCC on 19"s rides better in NORMAL than a GTI Mk7 on 18's with no DCC.
Make of that what you will.
Our third world roads are so bad DCC should be standard. Germany different story.
Title: Re: DCC with 19" Alloys, is it worth it?
Post by: Arnold_Lane on 29 August 2017, 10:46
I agree, the DCC must be better now?!. Think the ride in Comfort and my 19" inch, is smother than my old Volvo V70.. :grin: :grin:

I thought one of the changes in the Mk7.5 is that the difference in firmness of the DCC damping has been widened to make a more obvious difference. Someone with more knowledge than I may concur or correct that tho'.

Only three more sleeps before I pick my new car up and can try it for myself  :smiley:
Title: Re: DCC with 19" Alloys, is it worth it?
Post by: Wide on 29 August 2017, 11:23
I agree, the DCC must be better now?!. Think the ride in Comfort and my 19" inch, is smother than my old Volvo V70.. :grin: :grin:

I thought one of the changes in the Mk7.5 is that the difference in firmness of the DCC damping has been widened to make a more obvious difference. Someone with more knowledge than I may concur or correct that tho'.

Only three more sleeps before I pick my new car up and can try it for myself  :smiley:

Yes my dealer says that, but i haven´t find any info about this on the web..
Title: Re: DCC with 19" Alloys, is it worth it?
Post by: I wanted a GTi on 29 August 2017, 11:37
I had dcc on my last gtd and ditched it at the last minute on my new one. I've only had 18's but honestly I've not missed it once and I'm nine hundred quid up :-)

The R with DCC on 19"s rides better in NORMAL than a GTI Mk7 on 18's with no DCC.
Make of that what you will.
Our third world roads are so bad DCC should be standard. Germany different story.

Doesn't the R have a different rear suspension and the rear has a softer rebound.
Title: Re: DCC with 19" Alloys, is it worth it?
Post by: fredgroves on 29 August 2017, 12:26
I agree, the DCC must be better now?!. Think the ride in Comfort and my 19" inch, is smother than my old Volvo V70.. :grin: :grin:

I thought one of the changes in the Mk7.5 is that the difference in firmness of the DCC damping has been widened to make a more obvious difference. Someone with more knowledge than I may concur or correct that tho'.

Only three more sleeps before I pick my new car up and can try it for myself  :smiley:

It's possible but it's not documented in the sales details. You'd probably have to look at the part numbers for old and new adaptive struts to see if anything is new. On the other hand, it could just be a value in the control system... Not sure if they are truly dynamic (ie a range of values) or if the strut has three settings and you toggle them...
Title: Re: DCC with 19" Alloys, is it worth it?
Post by: Wide on 29 August 2017, 12:43
I agree, the DCC must be better now?!. Think the ride in Comfort and my 19" inch, is smother than my old Volvo V70.. :grin: :grin:

I thought one of the changes in the Mk7.5 is that the difference in firmness of the DCC damping has been widened to make a more obvious difference. Someone with more knowledge than I may concur or correct that tho'.

Only three more sleeps before I pick my new car up and can try it for myself  :smiley:

It's possible but it's not documented in the sales details. You'd probably have to look at the part numbers for old and new adaptive struts to see if anything is new. On the other hand, it could just be a value in the control system... Not sure if they are truly dynamic (ie a range of values) or if the strut has three settings and you toggle them...

Yes that is antoher question about DCC! Is there any company that can tune the DCC?!.  :smiley:

Title: Re: DCC with 19" Alloys, is it worth it?
Post by: fredgroves on 30 August 2017, 14:12
Well, DCC is actually Tenneco/Monroe's CVSAe system:

Quote
Tenneco’s continuously variable semi-active suspension solution which continuously senses the road and driving conditions to adjust the four dampers in real time for a more comfortable and controlled ride. The four electronically controlled dampers connect to an Electronic Control Unit (ECU) which manages all the sensor inputs like wheel accelerations, body displacement and steering angle, and drives the damper settings every 10 milliseconds to deliver optimal ride comfort and vehicle control in all road and driving situations. It is based on a triple tube damper design which has one externally mounted active hydraulic valve to control the damping. The driver can also select a preferred driving style, e.g. more comfort or more dynamic. This product has proven itself on over 40 different vehicle models. With an evolved damper and hydraulic valve design and improved performance, this product is still market leading today.

Additionally stuff from them says:

Quote
Developed by Tenneco in conjunction with Öhlins Racing, the CVSA system is a semi-active suspension that continuously adjusts damping levels according to road conditions and vehicle dynamics, such as speed, turning and cornering, delivering comfort without sacrificing the safety of sure handling. A  powerful  Electronic  Control  Unit  (ECU) triggers the CVSA system. Found at the heart of the CVSA unit, the ECU is designed to exploit the full potential of the electro-hydraulic valving system by processing input data sent by a group of sensors placed at key locations on the  vehicle.  Additional  input  signals  are provided from other modules sharing the CAN (Controller Area Network) bus. The CVSA utilizes control software that processes the sensor information regarding steering wheel angle, vehicle speed, brake pressure and other chassis control information and sends signals that  independently  adjust  the  damp-ing level of each shock absorber valve.
CVSA  dampers  allow  a  large  separa-tion between maximum and minimum damping  levels  and  adjust  instanta-
neously to ensure the optimum in ride comfort and firm, safe vehicle control.

So it sounds like the Monroe ECU is where the amount of dampening is configured...

The article goes on to say:

Quote
DiagnosticTrouble Codes. The DTCs related to the ride control system are not recorded in the Engine Control Module. These codes are logged in a dedicated control module or the Body Control Module, requiring a scan tool capable of accessing these ECUs. Relying on the data provided by a generic tool is causing many techs to miss needed information. “Techs need to be aware that replac-ing these units will ‘turn out the light’ when the code specifically indicates an issue with a damper, or a solenoid that  is  integrated  into  the  damper,”  Bacarella  cautions.  “Many  techs  are  not as aware of diagnosing BCM issues as they are with ECMs. They’ve been taught how to read and resolve engine-related DTCs but unfortunately some of these classes don’t explain that there are other codes to be found.

So it sounds like another controller on the CANBUS, which may or may not be electronically configurable.

I'd guess probably NOT by virtue of making changes to it could compromise the safety of the vehicle and they tend to lock those sort of things down!!!
Title: Re: DCC with 19" Alloys, is it worth it?
Post by: fredgroves on 30 August 2017, 16:45
There's an interesting writeup here of BMW's version of DCC (which actually is effectively the same Monroe system):

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=942225

In that thread they talk about Dinan Shockware:

https://www.dinancars.com/product/d906-1301-dinan-shockware-suspension-tuning-for-bmw-edc-2/

So, if that is possible on BMW, in theory the same is possible for a Golf....

Back to Google :D
Title: Re: DCC with 19" Alloys, is it worth it?
Post by: fredgroves on 30 August 2017, 16:59
Aha!

Here we go:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/vwqcwx32urcs1ol/AADxbgfxZyxk859hwMbhPNIEa?dl=0&preview=SSP-Nr__406__DCC_Adaptive_Chassis_Control_Design_and_Function.pdf

"The maps for the respective shock absorber setting are stored in the electronically controlled damping control unit J250"

Although I don't think there is much scope for effective changes really if you go on and read exactly how the different initial damping works...

Anyway, it satisfies my engineering head to have read this.
Title: Re: DCC with 19" Alloys, is it worth it?
Post by: Wide on 30 August 2017, 20:09
Thanks Guys!, a lot interesting to read and understand,, :shocked:  :grin: