GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: dubber36 on 19 July 2017, 16:13
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Even if the box has been removed, the dealers are now able to tell whether one has been previously installed. It seems that they are not the secret tuning device that will keep your warranty intact anymore.
(http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/attachments/img_3625-png.130868/)
(http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/attachments/img_3626-png.130867/)
I suppose they do have a resale value, but for the cost of these devises, they money would probably be better spent on a remap.
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So they are detected by them logging the hardware ID of a control unit (which will be the tuning box) in the log file each time the car is started? (ie removing it would still show it in the log)
Surely making the tuning box able to clone the ID of the real control unit or factory setting it to a plausible value is how to defeat their checks?
Either that or just clear the vehicle log afer you've taken out the tuning box...
If you go the remap route and flash it back before the car goes into the garage (which I think is possible with some products), isn't there a log and a counter showing ECU flashes? How long before they start to compare how many the dealer has done vs how many the car is showing?
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"Suspected tuning with tuning box" is not proof though or reason to refuse a claim surely.
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... the money would probably be better spent on a remap.
Are remaps undetectable?
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... the money would probably be better spent on a remap.
Are remaps undetectable?
Absolutely not I'd say.
The only way is to reflash the OEM code back to the ECU before they can do a checksum on it.
As I said above, there are other possible ways of spotting even that.
BTW I guess this is all about VW trying to save/recover money after dieselgate... refuse a few warranty claims and save a few euros.
Also... the document has the word "Audi" in it... did you spot that?
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To be honest, quite right of the group to take this stance, and I know that might not be a popular train of thought on forums like this.
I've remapped a brand new Audi previously (with a fairly tame Bluefin power increase), and took that decision based on knowing I'd be kissing the factory warranty goodbye on engine & drivetrain components.
If you choose to modify the engine performance and put additional strain on other components, then why should you be able to deny all knowledge to the dealer and expect VW to cover costs if something goes wrong?
At least in Germany, the big reputable tuners all provide their own warranties and go through all sorts of TUV certification for what they sell and charge higher prices accordingly. Example: Abt give a 2 year warranty http://www.abt-sportsline.de/en/vw-tuning/golf/golf-vii-gti-clubsport-s/equipment/engine-technology/
As the document says, presence of a remap or tuning box won't affect warranty claims on unrelated components
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Also... the document has the word "Audi" in it... did you spot that?
Yes, dubber was reading what an Audi technichian posted over on the ASN forum for S1 drivers.
Do you think VW will take a different stance to Audi?
Not that this will effect me as I keep my cars stock. Too many issues with warranty and insurance for my liking. If I want a faster car I save the money and buy one.
If you were buying a car second hand would you want to know if someone was messing with the engine power? It would put me off.
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I have always adopted the philosophy 'can't afford to pay then don't play' to modifications and have only ever modified cars I actually own.
I've done many miles with mapped cars but at the moment the lease car is stock and the M2 already has the performance and balance I need and a bit too valuable to mess with.
That said the wife's R will be off to Revo when its warranty expires
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... the money would probably be better spent on a remap.
Are remaps undetectable?
Nope. Most alter the flash counter so they only have to look at that to see its been mapped
There are some cars where the flash counter isn't altered but it's few and far between and there is nothing in the VAG range
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Kinda related...
A poster on ASN has just said they owned a PFL S3 and a Mk7R and a pedal box. They say that the 7 speed S-tronic and drive modes mean throttle response is much improved on the facelift S3. In their opinion the facelift S3 does not need a pedal box.
Hopefully, that is good news for people buying the Mk7.5. :cool:
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Kinda related...
A poster on ASN has just said they owned a PFL S3 and a Mk7R and a pedal box. They say that the 7 speed S-tronic and drive modes mean throttle response is much improved on the facelift S3. In their opinion the facelift S3 does not need a pedal box.
Hopefully, that is good news for people buying the Mk7.5. :cool:
Nope. Pedal box definitely required on the 7.5. Sh*t without one.
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Nope. Pedal box definitely required on the 7.5. Sh*t without one.
Are you still driving your Mk7 GTI? Have you got your Mk7.5 R already? Otherwise - how would you know?
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In the 7.5 R now. They definitely need the box on. I couldn't own one without it. The pedal feel is dreadful. Worse than my GTI was.
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In the 7.5 R now. They definitely need the box on. I couldn't own one without it. The pedal feel is dreadful. Worse than my GTI was.
That's interesting as you can see I have same as you, dare not mention as this is GTI forum but agree after 1600 miles use it is soft,and never had box and will fit one. Am more than happy with the power delivery as is, so box will be a bonus.
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In the 7.5 R now. They definitely need the box on. I couldn't own one without it. The pedal feel is dreadful. Worse than my GTI was.
I remember someone said on youtube that a bigger turbo meant bigger turbo lag.
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In the 7.5 R now. They definitely need the box on. I couldn't own one without it. The pedal feel is dreadful. Worse than my GTI was.
I remember someone said on youtube that a bigger turbo meant bigger turbo lag.
The pedal box has nothing to do with turbo lag, all it does is modulate the signal from the trottle potentiometer to the ecu.
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... the money would probably be better spent on a remap.
Are remaps undetectable?
My point was that if you are going to tune your car, you'll get found out. so may as well have a superior remap as opposed to a plug in box.
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... the money would probably be better spent on a remap.
Are remaps undetectable?
My point was that if you are going to tune your car, you'll get found out. so may as well have a superior remap as opposed to a plug in box.
Stage 3 or bust? :D
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... the money would probably be better spent on a remap.
Are remaps undetectable?
My point was that if you are going to tune your car, you'll get found out. so may as well have a superior remap as opposed to a plug in box.
Stage 3 or bust? :D
Why not? Might as well get hung for a sheep as a lamb.
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Being serious though, a Stage 1 map or box isn't really going to cause major component compromise... I agree after that it could but Stage 1 is pretty mild.
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In the 7.5 R now. They definitely need the box on. I couldn't own one without it. The pedal feel is dreadful. Worse than my GTI was.
That's interesting as you can see I have same as you, dare not mention as this is GTI forum but agree after 1600 miles use it is soft,and never had box and will fit one. Am more than happy with the power delivery as is, so box will be a bonus.
Yes, this is a GTI forum, but no-one that I've seen has suggested you shouldn't talk about your R so why go on about it?
As for pedal boxes, are they a detectable no-no or is it only tuning boxes? I hope not but if so it's far too late now for me.
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Being serious though, a Stage 1 map or box isn't really going to cause major component compromise... I agree after that it could but Stage 1 is pretty mild.
I think a lot of this comes down to how it is driven and the mechanical symphony of the owner.
Manuals cars clutches suffer people ride the torque curve rather than use the power and higher revs, I always used to drop a cog when overtaking
There was a bug thing about the the turbos on initial Rs failing etc, which was funny as Revo and myself did 20k on these fragile turbos, that said we did let them warm up and could down
I have reached that point in car ownership that i like balance and for me shoving 300+ bhp through the front wheels is not a balanced car on the twisties unless its got a LSD
Chasis and brakes is where I would put my money
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Being serious though, a Stage 1 map or box isn't really going to cause major component compromise... I agree after that it could but Stage 1 is pretty mild.
I think a lot of this comes down to how it is driven and the mechanical symphony of the owner.
Manuals cars clutches suffer people ride the torque curve rather than use the power and higher revs, I always used to drop a cog when overtaking
There was a bug thing about the the turbos on initial Rs failing etc, which was funny as Revo and myself did 20k on these fragile turbos, that said we did let them warm up and could down
I have reached that point in car ownership that i like balance and for me shoving 300+ bhp through the front wheels is not a balanced car on the twisties unless its got a LSD
Chasis and brakes is where I would put my money
Am hoping the R turbo holds out for donkeys years with 4wd but agree brakes, The most important factor, and I think could be better in the R, probably the performance pack does the job at a price.
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Put yourself in their shoes. You offer someone a warranty on a product, they go and modify said product to make it perform beyond it’s factory design, they then come crying that its broken and want you to pay for it? My personal opinion is as highly rated and good some of the boxes out there are, i wont be fitting a £300 box to my £26k car. By all means after warranty do as you please.
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@OP: Do you know when that directive came out?
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I know this is a very old thread, but can anyone explain in simple terms how a tuning boxing is detectable if it’s been removed? And can insurance companies detect this stuff the same as dealers?
Thanks!
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Being serious though, a Stage 1 map or box isn't really going to cause major component compromise... I agree after that it could but Stage 1 is pretty mild.
I think a lot of this comes down to how it is driven and the mechanical symphony of the owner.
Manuals cars clutches suffer people ride the torque curve rather than use the power and higher revs, I always used to drop a cog when overtaking
There was a bug thing about the the turbos on initial Rs failing etc, which was funny as Revo and myself did 20k on these fragile turbos, that said we did let them warm up and could down.
The manual R's clutch is just not up to the job. I never modified mine and it slipped on a few occasions in cold weather.
I'm pretty mechanically sympathetic with my cars, but it happened all the same.
Apart from not thrashing a cold engine (which the car won't let you do now since the arrival of the MK7 because output is restricted until the oil temp is registering at 50C), how much mechanical sympathy should you be giving yo a hot hatch? These cars are so powerful that they can only be driven hard for 10 seconds at a time before you're speeding beyond what a Bobby would turn a blind eye to.
That clutch has zero over-engineering in it when unmodified car's clutches are failing (mine wasn't the only one) and it's almost a cert that a modified Golf's manual clutch will go at stage 1 within 10k miles.
If you are going to up the power even to only stage 1 on a GTI or R, get a clutch upgrade before you up the power, or you'll be needing a new flywheel as well as a new clutch.
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I know this is a very old thread, but can anyone explain in simple terms how a tuning boxing is detectable if it’s been removed? And can insurance companies detect this stuff the same as dealers?
Thanks!
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=285436.0
Have a read of that.
An insurance company could, if they suspected something, get the ECU investigated the same as VW could to see if there are any anomalies in requested vs actual values where sensors have been tricked.
If a tuning box hasn’t been declared your biggest worry would be being unable to access under the bonnet to remove it before the car got towed away, even a minor shunt can result in a bonnet not being able to be opened in situ.
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Pity VW don't offer the ABT upgrade available in the Seat Cupra
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I know this is a very old thread, but can anyone explain in simple terms how a tuning boxing is detectable if it’s been removed? And can insurance companies detect this stuff the same as dealers?
Thanks!
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=285436.0
Have a read of that.
An insurance company could, if they suspected something, get the ECU investigated the same as VW could to see if there are any anomalies in requested vs actual values where sensors have been tricked.
If a tuning box hasn’t been declared your biggest worry would be being unable to access under the bonnet to remove it before the car got towed away, even a minor shunt can result in a bonnet not being able to be opened in situ.
Thanks! I’ll follow that thread. It’s quite an interesting issue.