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Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: mariamartinez on 04 July 2017, 12:40

Title: Cadiz vs Santiago vs Pretoria Weight in kg?
Post by: mariamartinez on 04 July 2017, 12:40
Hi all

Aside from cosmetic differences does anyone have the weights of these wheels...or indeed any of the current 7.5 golf choices? I am trying to see if it will effect performance at all

thanks
Title: Re: Cadiz vs Santiago vs Pretoria Weight in kg?
Post by: SRGTD on 04 July 2017, 13:52
Found this on other forums, so not 'official' figures;

Cadiz without tyres; 22.8 lbs / 10.34 kgs
http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17012

Santiago without tyres; two suggestions at the link below - either 26.5 lbs / 12.02 kgs or 28.5 lbs / 12.93 kgs
http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?p=459829

Prets without tyres; 22.2 lbs / 10.06 kgs
http://forums.mwerks.com/showthread.php?7959361-Pretoria-and-Continental-Wheel-Tire-Weight
Title: Re: Cadiz vs Santiago vs Pretoria Weight in kg?
Post by: douglaslad on 04 July 2017, 13:57
As far as I know the Pretoria's are 9.5 kg and the Santiago's are 13.4 Kg.
Title: Re: Cadiz vs Santiago vs Pretoria Weight in kg?
Post by: Guzzle on 04 July 2017, 14:01
Obviously this only applies for genuine OEM wheels.

The Pretoria's are also available as an 18 inch wheel, but these are heavier than the 19's as they're cast.
Title: Re: Cadiz vs Santiago vs Pretoria Weight in kg?
Post by: mariamartinez on 05 July 2017, 10:21
thank you. so pretoria 19 or cadiz 18 are lightest by about 2kg
Title: Re: Cadiz vs Santiago vs Pretoria Weight in kg?
Post by: fredgroves on 05 July 2017, 13:05
What about the 17" Brooklyns?

(i know, not a UK part but inquiring minds and all that)
Title: Re: Cadiz vs Santiago vs Pretoria Weight in kg?
Post by: Exonian on 05 July 2017, 16:36
Why such concern with the weight mariamartinez?
Is it because the car will be used on trackdays?

You could opt for standard wheels and get lightweight aftermarket wheels.
Something along the lines of Team Dynamics, REVO or VWR (made by the former) or something from an OEM manufacturer that looks really good are Borbet FF1 (with the FF standing for Flow Formed which makes them very light and they're much cheaper than OEM wheels if you break one at some point).
 
Title: Re: Cadiz vs Santiago vs Pretoria Weight in kg?
Post by: mariamartinez on 19 July 2017, 17:35
no not for track days, but mainly a concern for fuel economy, I want something that looks good but doesn't sacrifice economy; handling is less of a concern. Looking around I see lots of Cadiz and Nogaro for sale in various conditions, a few Pretorias and Santiagos but no Spielbergs or Bresicas....I guess the later are only recently released and no one is "upgrading" them
Title: Re: Cadiz vs Santiago vs Pretoria Weight in kg?
Post by: phope on 19 July 2017, 17:56
Clubsport Belvedere in 18" are lightweight at 7.6kg / 16.7 lbs

http://www.fuchsfelge.de/index.php?id=1188&L=1

Pricy, but maybe turn up some bargains on www.ebay.de

https://www.kunzmann.de/shop/en/wheels-18-inch-rims-belvedere-vw-golf-7-vii-gti-genuine-volkswagen.htm

Title: Re: Cadiz vs Santiago vs Pretoria Weight in kg?
Post by: fredgroves on 19 July 2017, 18:55
no not for track days, but mainly a concern for fuel economy

Surely spending whatever money on different wheels is an extra cost that isn't offset by any mpg gains even if you kept the car for ten years...
Title: Re: Cadiz vs Santiago vs Pretoria Weight in kg?
Post by: mariamartinez on 20 July 2017, 00:12
I can see the logic and you might be correct, but you can buy a decent set of say Cadiz with tyres for under £700 and either sell your stock set or keep them as spare or keep them for them you finally sell.....so it could cost you almost nothing and you could gain 4x 2kg...which isnt much admittedly but because its off the wheels it has a bigger than expected effect on mpg.
Title: Re: Cadiz vs Santiago vs Pretoria Weight in kg?
Post by: fredgroves on 20 July 2017, 07:30
You'd probably be better off strictly controlling extra junk that you carry in the car. Remove everything from the boot,  the glove box and maybe replace the spare with an inflation kit.
Title: Re: Cadiz vs Santiago vs Pretoria Weight in kg?
Post by: Daz Auto on 20 July 2017, 08:09
I'm not sure I really understand why you would want to do this, other than for cosmetic reasons. Replacing alloys is a waste of money unless you really don't like your current alloys.

Which Golf is it you drive?

To a purist like me, if you have Cadiz alloys on anything other than a Golf R, it will look wrong. My wife noticed me frowning at a car at the weekend and asked me what was wrong. I replied - that car is not an R. As we got closer I realised it was an R LINE :rolleyes: In our local seaside town at the weekend, I often find myself playing a game of 'what Golf is it really?' It amazes me the length some people will go to to make their cars look like a performance Golf.

If fuel economy is you main concern then driving mode and driving style will have a much bigger impact. Though if you have a GTI or Golf R then you really bought the wrong car. Thought for the performance they offer the fuel economy is reasonable. Even the GTD can be uneconomical in certain conditions - short journeys, sport mode, heavy right foot.
Title: Re: Cadiz vs Santiago vs Pretoria Weight in kg?
Post by: LRWmotorsport on 20 July 2017, 08:18
Weight difference of the wheels will equate to no notable difference in performance in a heavy road car.
Go for the wheels that you think make it look the best.
Title: Re: Cadiz vs Santiago vs Pretoria Weight in kg?
Post by: Daz Auto on 20 July 2017, 08:24
I want something that looks good but doesn't sacrifice economy
... ahhhh... suddenly it becomes clear...

... alloys will have a negligible effect on economy.
Title: Re: Cadiz vs Santiago vs Pretoria Weight in kg?
Post by: Guzzle on 20 July 2017, 08:28
We may be able to provide better advice if you could let us know which variant of the Golf it is that you have, and which wheels are currently on it.

As Daz says, if you put wheels on that don't really suit the car this could defeat the purpose of swapping. It may not cost too much now, but have you thought about how easy it will be to sell on? Your taste may not be the same as the majority, and in my experience most people generally prefer to buy cars that haven't been tinkered with or that have non standard parts on. If it's fuel economy and saving money you're most concerned about it may be best to stick with what you have and do the basic things right such as regularly check tyre pressures, driving conservatively etc.
Title: Re: Cadiz vs Santiago vs Pretoria Weight in kg?
Post by: SRGTD on 20 July 2017, 08:37
I can see the logic and you might be correct, but you can buy a decent set of say Cadiz with tyres for under £700 and either sell your stock set or keep them as spare or keep them for them you finally sell.....so it could cost you almost nothing and you could gain 4x 2kg...which isnt much admittedly but because its off the wheels it has a bigger than expected effect on mpg.

Also bear in mind that you need to declare to your insurer that you've changed your wheels, as this is a modification. They may charge you an additional premium for the modification; if they do, this would offset (at least in part) any negligible economy savings you might gain.
Title: Re: Cadiz vs Santiago vs Pretoria Weight in kg?
Post by: mariamartinez on 20 July 2017, 08:52
hi thanks. I was thinking of with the "additional" effects of rotational mass and unsprung mass The following site claims weight savings are multiplied by 5 times (when saved in wheels) https://magnesiumwheels.com/roi.html. However I agree effects are likely to be very small, I could only find one real world study of heavy vs light wheels on fuel economy and the effect was 0.5mpg. https://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=108
Title: Re: Cadiz vs Santiago vs Pretoria Weight in kg?
Post by: fredgroves on 20 July 2017, 08:57
Yes, I believe 0.5mpg is about right...

As I said, just putting your car on a diet and chucking out the junk we all carry probably adds to the same amount. Dumping the spare wheel probably alone is the same amount of weight!

I used to be into sports bikes as a younger man and people I know used to spend loads of money on weight reduction parts - titanium/carbon fibre this that and the other... I suggested instead removing keys, wallets etc from your pockets and a little diet would save more weight and cost less :)
Title: Re: Cadiz vs Santiago vs Pretoria Weight in kg?
Post by: Daz Auto on 20 July 2017, 09:14
deleted
Title: Re: Cadiz vs Santiago vs Pretoria Weight in kg?
Post by: rob1234 on 12 June 2018, 08:57
(Bit of a thread resurrection, but for the record if anyone searches in the future.)

Swapped some wheels around today and took the opportunity to weight them - this is with differing tyres, so not scientific, but gives an idea...

VW 19" Brescia (5G0601025CL) with 225/30 P Zero:                          21.75kg
Skoda 18" Gemini (5E0601025AJ) with 225/40 SportContact 5:           21.35kg
Skoda 18" Neptune (1Z0071498) with 225/40 Pilot Sport 4:                21.20kg
VW 18" Belvedere (5G0601025CF) with 225/40 Bridgestone S001:      18.80kg

Hope this is useful for someone!
Title: Re: Cadiz vs Santiago vs Pretoria Weight in kg?
Post by: Jeff Wood on 12 June 2018, 09:20
I weighed my Parker alloys with Bridgestone tyres and they were 22.5 kg.

The 18" OZ wheels I have on it now weigh 18.5 kg with tyres.

It does make a difference !!!

The car feels so much better, more agile & responsive.


Worth remembering that 19" wheels will gear the car up a bit, as they have 235/35 tyres which means a bigger overal diameter than 18" with 225/40, so acceleration will suffer.

And more thing that no one mentions....brakes..

The PP brakes are really heavy, calipers are 7.5 kg and discs are 10.7 kg.

(the non PP brakes are 5.5 kg and 7.7kg)


The Audi TT RS (Brembo) brake calipers are 4.5 kg and the PB Brake calipers are only 2.5kg (without pads though).



This is why my advice for anyone buying a GTI, forget about reverse cameras, pano roofs, leather, Santiago's, DCC, Dyanaudio and an outside toilet  :grin: and instead use that money for lightweight wheels and a brake upgrade, that's the way to make it fly  :grin:
Title: Re: Cadiz vs Santiago vs Pretoria Weight in kg?
Post by: mcmaddy on 12 June 2018, 10:50
Are the Audi TT RS brakes a straight swap onto a pp GTi?
The advantage in the pp brakes over the standard ones are is they are better at stopping you, oh and they look nicer too  :grin:
Title: Re: Cadiz vs Santiago vs Pretoria Weight in kg?
Post by: Jeff Wood on 12 June 2018, 12:03
yes and no....the standard calipers on the 7.5 are now 4 pot calipers, whereas the PP calipers are single piston, so probably not much in it, the difference will be that the bigger discs don't start to fade as quick, but that's not likely to be a problem unless you're going really crazy.

They do look better I give you that one :grin:

And you need a special caliper carriers to fit the TT RS calipers, Vagbremtechnic sell them, and they do a kit with the calipers.

But I'm beginning to like PB Brakes conversion kits, they look great, even lighter and theres an upgrade path to the rears as well. Not cheap though as you'll need their electronic handbrake gizmo, but its the only way to get rid of those ugly rear calipers...

Title: Re: Cadiz vs Santiago vs Pretoria Weight in kg?
Post by: Gnasher on 12 June 2018, 18:25
yes and no....the standard calipers on the 7.5 are now 4 pot calipers, whereas the PP calipers are single piston, so probably not much in it, the difference will be that the bigger discs don't start to fade as quick, but that's not likely to be a problem unless you're going really crazy.

They do look better I give you that one :grin:

And you need a special caliper carriers to fit the TT RS calipers, Vagbremtechnic sell them, and they do a kit with the calipers.

But I'm beginning to like PB Brakes conversion kits, they look great, even lighter and theres an upgrade path to the rears as well. Not cheap though as you'll need their electronic handbrake gizmo, but its the only way to get of those ugly rear calipers...

Standard calipers on the 7.5 are 4pot? Are you sure?
Title: Re: Cadiz vs Santiago vs Pretoria Weight in kg?
Post by: Jeff Wood on 12 June 2018, 19:20
pretty sure, I've read on a few sites;

Brakes (F): 312mm ventilated discs, 4-piston calipers
Brakes (R): 300mm solid discs, single-piston calipers


I'm trying to find more on the subject now :)
Title: Re: Cadiz vs Santiago vs Pretoria Weight in kg?
Post by: cossiegaz82 on 12 June 2018, 23:44
The calipers on a mk 7.5 are definitely single piston sliding type on the front, I had to strip the offside front caliper off on 2018 GTI at work today to retrieve a small stone caught between the caliper carrier and disc.  :wink:

Title: Re: Cadiz vs Santiago vs Pretoria Weight in kg?
Post by: Jeff Wood on 13 June 2018, 08:40
fair enough, must admit I was surprised too.

and I can't find the review now where it said about the brakes, it's bugging me now  :angry:
Title: Re: Cadiz vs Santiago vs Pretoria Weight in kg?
Post by: rob1234 on 13 June 2018, 12:55
My 19s came with 225/35, which are only 0.46% off the rolling radius of 225/40 R18s.

Bizarrely, I agree you can feel the reduced weight though - pretty sure I’m not imagining it.

PP brakes are heavy (but feel good), but CS-S discs are c.900g per side lighter - for what it’s worth!

Pretty sure the Mk7.5 brakes are the same as the Mk.7.

Title: Re: Cadiz vs Santiago vs Pretoria Weight in kg?
Post by: Jeff Wood on 13 June 2018, 13:11
The css discs are .9kg lighter that's where that weight saving comes from..and they're a direct fit if you already have the pp brakes...
Title: Re: Cadiz vs Santiago vs Pretoria Weight in kg?
Post by: Hurdy on 18 June 2018, 11:53
I have the CSS discs and TTRS 4 pot calipers. The calipers weigh in at 3.4kg without the pads in and are a big improvement over the R brakes, which are single pot, made of cast iron and weigh 9.3kg without pads.

Almost 7kg saving per side.

Wheel weight doesn’t do much for economy, but for acceleration and deceleration the effect of saving 1 kg per corner is the same as taking 20kg out of the body of the car. Lighter wheels also give a better feel in my opinion to the steering. Currently I have 5 sets of wheels...yes I have an alloy wheel fetish. LOL.