GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: k77nrs on 03 April 2017, 22:45
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Evening All,
I'm considering a set of 18 inch 'Belvedere' wheels for my Clubsport S.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e143/k77nrs/clubsport%20belvedere%2018%20wheels_zpswuhctjpb.jpg)
The main reasons being...
I like the look of them (minority I suspect).
Very lightweight forged wheel - 7.9 kg each, and '40' section tyres both potentially improve ride.
Keep original Pretoria's and Cup 2's in 'As New' condition, and potentially use them for summer European road trip.
I would plan to fit a more road biased tyre as well, thinking about a 235/40 18 Michelin Pilot Sport 4. The main reasons being...
Maintain 235 width of standard 19inch tyre.
Give a better overall compromise for mixed road driving, in dry and wet weather.
I don't have any complaints about the current 19's and Cup 2's, but feel they might be a bit of a handful if / when we get a wet spell.
My main reason for the post is to ask if anyone else has gone to the Belvedere 18's on a CSS? Does anyone know if the brakes on the CSS will cause any compatibility issues? I think they are the same calliper as used on the regular Clubsport, just a different disc?
Alternatively, does anyone have any experience or suggestions for alternative forged / lightweight 18" wheels?
Thanks.
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Correction, weight is 7.6kg per wheel....
Thanks.
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You'd need 225/40 tyres rather than 235 as the wheels are 7.5J not 8 like the Pretorias
There are a few sets on eBay.de at the moment that are brand new but the only ones I saw with postage to the UK had Bridgestones fitted.
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cant give any advice on the wheels but getting rid of the slicks and going on to a road tyre will make a big difference , slicks are no good for our changing weather since i went on to continentals i have so much more confidence in the wet. kept the pilots for the next owner to have or a track day.
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I like the CS 18" wheel, but for the money I think I would prefer to buy a set of BBS as a spare set for less £££.
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somebody knows the price per wheel when you buy these afterwards?
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somebody knows the price per wheel when you buy these afterwards?
See here:
https://www.kunzmann.de/shop/en/wheels-18-inch-rims-belvedere-vw-golf-7-vii-gti-genuine-volkswagen.htm
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Or £2k posted with the ultra desirable Bridgestones http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-18-Rims-Golf-7-VII-GTI-Clubsport-Belvedere-Alloy-wheels-Normal-tyre-NEU-/172512213356?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368
There are other cheaper sets on eBay.de
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You'd need 225/40 tyres rather than 235 as the wheels are 7.5J not 8 like the Pretorias
There are a few sets on eBay.de at the moment that are brand new but the only ones I saw with postage to the UK had Bridgestones fitted.
Thanks for that, but I've read elsewhere that a 235 would be the Max width that could be used with the smaller 7.5J width. Could well mean some other compromise in terms of steering feel though?
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cant give any advice on the wheels but getting rid of the slicks and going on to a road tyre will make a big difference , slicks are no good for our changing weather since i went on to continentals i have so much more confidence in the wet. kept the pilots for the next owner to have or a track day.
Hi there Bigwod. Did you go to the Conti Sport 6? How do they compare in the dry?
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I like the CS 18" wheel, but for the money I think I would prefer to buy a set of BBS as a spare set for less £££.
Hi Clubsport. I'm also a big fan of BBS, but not sure I would get a proper Forged set of BBS for a similar price to the Belvedere? Do you have any suggestions that would work with the CSS brakes?
I think I might have to go for cast ones in the price bracket? I'm actually thinking the 18inch CS wheels are quite good value for a forged Otto-Fuchs wheel.
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3 or 4 sets of Belvedere's with tyres on eBay at the moment, located in Germany, they all appear to be in very good condition, prices on average around £1600. Have them on my Clubsport and find them excellent, suits the car well and very easy to clean.
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I put the conti 5s on , great in the dry and the wet.
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When I changed to winter tires back in December I asked the guy to weigh them. He even said while removing them (before weighing) "those wheels feel super light for an 18", how come?" :wink:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v361/No_need_2_r_gue/Clubsport/public/2016-11-25%2010.31.44_zps8tlhsrhn.jpg)
I was reading in other forums that people fitted 235 tires on 7.5J wheels like this and they were fine. To be honest, these wheels would make even more sense on the CS-S, but I guess it had to do with VW and Michelin deals on the 19" size?
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I think you are making a wise choice and keeping it oem means they are an attractive proposition and something like the new Michelins or Sport Contact 5s would be a good match.
These are crazy light when compared to what you see on the after market
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http://www.fuchsfelge.de/index.php?id=1188&L=1
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somebody knows the price per wheel when you buy these afterwards?
See here:
https://www.kunzmann.de/shop/en/wheels-18-inch-rims-belvedere-vw-golf-7-vii-gti-genuine-volkswagen.htm
They now have the Brescias on here for 1339 euros (approx £1150) as well when they were twice that a couple months ago. To say I'm tempted would be an understatement
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When I changed to winter tires back in December I asked the guy to weigh them. He even said while removing them (before weighing) "those wheels feel super light for an 18", how come?" :wink:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v361/No_need_2_r_gue/Clubsport/public/2016-11-25%2010.31.44_zps8tlhsrhn.jpg)
I was reading in other forums that people fitted 235 tires on 7.5J wheels like this and they were fine. To be honest, these wheels would make even more sense on the CS-S, but I guess it had to do with VW and Michelin deals on the 19" size?
They really are nice wheels, would look great on my GTI :drool:
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When I changed to winter tires back in December I asked the guy to weigh them. He even said while removing them (before weighing) "those wheels feel super light for an 18", how come?" :wink:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v361/No_need_2_r_gue/Clubsport/public/2016-11-25%2010.31.44_zps8tlhsrhn.jpg)
I was reading in other forums that people fitted 235 tires on 7.5J wheels like this and they were fine. To be honest, these wheels would make even more sense on the CS-S, but I guess it had to do with VW and Michelin deals on the 19" size?
Hi Scanesare, thanks for the reassurance on the 235's.
I think the main reason the CSS has 19's as standard is the availability of the Cup 2 tyre in that size. It's a 'N0' spec tyre, so looks like they have pinched the tyres directly from the Porsche Parts Bin!
I also suspect the 19's offer marginally better steering response, but I'm willing to take a punt on a set if 18's to see if the reduced unsprung mass and inertia gives any ride improvement.
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I put the conti 5s on , great in the dry and the wet.
Definitely on my shortlist, have had those on previous cars and been impressed with them. I think my preference is the Michelin Sport 4. They seem to be quite good value at the moment. You can pick up the 18's in a 235/40 size for around £100 each.
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Rekindling this thread: has anyone tried 18s on the Clubsport S? And, if so, what did you go for and do you have photos?
Thanks
Mark
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Rekindling this thread: has anyone tried 18s on the Clubsport S? And, if so, what did you go for and do you have photos?
Thanks
Mark
I have toyed with the idea of 18 for better pliancy but feel that I might have to go for rally raid wheels from Oz Racing given the roads. I solved the problem more cost effectively - SORN the CSS and don't spend the money in the end.
I need to fix this for the TCR which I run through winter and think I'm going to end up with Racing Line Cup Edition and transfer the PS4s that are fitted now. Not dissimilar fitment so when I get to it, I'll share some pictures. I was about to order when I saw the Evo version announced and then thought I'd see what they're like in the metal. But this is borne of practicality, more than performance or aesthetics as I have had a couple of potholes incidents despite being incredibly careful. Rain filled potholes at night are the devil's work.
What's on your shortlist?
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Same concerns here: I want a nice looking, robust set up suited better to our roads than the 19 Pretorias which I will take off and store.
My preferred wheel is the 18 OZ Leggera HLT, but I have considered the ones you are looking at too. Didn't know about the new version - do you have a link as can't find them?
Keen to see what they look like on a CSS. And torn over whether to go 235 or 225 (as standard on the ED 40 18s - which I like too). I would prefer the former so a 235/40/18 - probably PS4S.
Ignore me. I have found the Cup Evos. Nice looking wheel but my immediate concern is the load rating (560kg) is much lower than the original Cups (750kg), albeit the same as the OZ Leggera HLT I am eyeing up.
Do you know what the load rating on Prets is? I asked Borbet but they declined to tell me...
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PS I should add, I think the CSS is particularly hard on alloys due to the extra camber it runs (they always seem to bend on the inner edge). Not helped by standard Cup 2s that have a firmer side wall than PS4S etc.
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What I actually care about is the impact test load (ISO7141) but it's not available for the Pretorias. I think both Borbet and BBS made the wheels but neither publish specification data, nor do VW although when I checked with my dealer they told me the wheels are load indexed to 615kg but didn't have any further information on impact rating. It's a chore trying to find technical data for most wheels.
I SORN'd the CSS over winter as the solution and will continue to do so as I can't really drive it as intended given road conditions but have been debating swapping the Pretorias for Racing Line R360 wheels for a change. They're load indexed to 650kg and an ISO7141 impact test load of 570kg.
The TCR which is used year round will find itself on Racing Line Cup wheels for winter I think - they appear to be the most robust wheel and I'd argue that something designed to take kerbs will be able to take the occasional pothole. Not entirely in love with the aesthetic but function over form. I think I'll probably swap them on to the CSS to see how they feel in use.
I like the OZ Leggera HLT, they remind me of the BBS FI-R which I have on my GT4. If you get the OZ Leggera wheels, please share some pictures, they could persuade me away from the R360s! Assume you'll go silver / grey?
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Useful info re impact rating. I have emailed OZ and will report back. Colour wise I am going to get as close to Pret colour as I can so greyish / silver.
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I'm running the HLTs at present but recently bought the Belvederes which will relegate them to winter duty.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/096z4oV6Eab9rQaPETkGAxuqg
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Thank you. Helpful. Seeing them on your car, while they look great, I actually think I prefer the Belvedere. But the offset looks better on the HLTs. What size tyres do you have on them?
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Yes, they do fill the arches better than stock.
I'm running 225/40/18 as I've read Michelin tests this size on 8J rims as well.
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Thanks
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Yes, they do fill the arches better than stock.
I'm running 225/40/18 as I've read Michelin tests this size on 8J rims as well.
I am going for the HLTs like yours but with 235/40/18s Conti SC7s which match my 19" pretorias and tyres perfectly. Will post a photo when fitted.
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Please do as I will use this to decide what size I'll run the winter tyres.
Cheers
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Wheelbase Alloys are offering a £480 discount on a set of 4 silver HLTs.
No idea if this is a limited or permanent offer but if anyone knows please post a reply.
I can’t find them on sale at under £2,000 anywhere else.
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Crazy price considering I paid €1600 2 years ago.
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I am using the Wheelbase offer (£1619) to see if my local guy can match.
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Crazy price considering I paid €1600 2 years ago.
Did you have to use spigot rings with yours?
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Yep
I even needed to use a bit of aluminium foil around the wheel hub because one of them was slightly smaller.
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Oh gawd. That has put me off.
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It wasn't the spigot ring now, it was my wheel hub that for some reason was worn down.
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Thanks
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The cost of “the quality end” of alloys available has risen quite substantially over the last 2/3 years.
VW 18” Pretorias (x4) are now pushing £1,900 a set …….if you can actually get an order in.
The new Racingline 18” Evo are £1,600 a set.
So just over £1,600 for HLT is pretty good bearing in mind what you are getting.
The price of anything is what it is.
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Getting better.
(https://i.postimg.cc/BngHL4dL/IMG-4789.png) (https://postimg.cc/YvvhTK2M)
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Those look awesome - Wheelbase are about 12 miles from where I live, I’m getting tempted (again)😀
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Chatting to Wheelbase now. Will update with photos if I go for it.
Man maths required...
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Chatting to Wheelbase now. Will update with photos if I go for it.
Man maths required...
Don’t forget to consider what you’ll be doing with your existing alloys.
It might be tempting to sell them to help offset the cost of any new alloys you buy, but when the time comes to eventually sell your car many (most?) prospective buyers will expect it to have the original factory wheels fitted and could be put off by a set of aftermarket alloys.
With my last three VW’s I changed the wheels but always kept the originals and put them back on the car prior to selling. With two of the three cars, the buyers said they wouldn’t have bought the cars without them having the original factory fitted alloys, so ensure you’ve got space to store them safely.
What about selling on aftermarket alloys if / when you put the OEM alloys back on the car? IMHO you shouldn’t have any issues selling good quality aftermarket well cared for alloys. I sold all three sets of mine with no issues and got the price I wanted for them. One set sold on the day I put them up for sale! Good prep for sale (thoroughly cleaned - both sides), being honest about their condition (e.g. any damage, repairs etc.) and plenty of pictures always helps with the sale.
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Thanks. Because it is a Clubsport S I will be keeping the 19 prets to refit for resale, not least because they are in mint condition (having only covered 7000 miles) and have new Mich PS4S on. And, if I ever sell the car, I will sell the OZ set.
I have just bought the OZ wheels from Wheelbase. 18*8 ET45 Grigio corsa. With OZ spigot rings and bolts. Fitted with 235/40 Continental SC7s.
£1999 delivered.
Time to start using the car as intended :)
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Surprised you didn't go for the new Pirelli PZ5, they're meant to be the best UUHP tyre out right now and seems to be cheaper than the rest too.
The OZ spigot ring will corrode within a year and fuse to the alloy, I had to go aftermarket.
Also buy a thin walled socket from Amazon as the tolerance to the bolt is practically non-existent. Even so I managed to scrape mine.
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Good advice. Thanks. I am going to use a smidge of copper anti-seize to try and prevent them binding.
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Sorry meant to add, re tyres: I know the SC7s so chose them. Plus I couldn't find the Pirelli in 235/40/18.
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No experience of aftermarket alloys yet so talk of spigot rings and corrosion spooks me badly.
If spigot rings corrode and fuse to the alloy :
1) are they supposed to? and
2) what difference do fused spigots make to getting the wheels on and off?
Lower cost alloys like CM Prets don’t need spigot rings, should I just go for them instead and save myself £1,000?????
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No experience of aftermarket alloys yet so talk of spigot rings and corrosion spooks me badly.
If spigot rings corrode and fuse to the alloy :
1) are they supposed to? and
2) what difference do fused spigots make to getting the wheels on and off?
Lower cost alloys like CM Prets don’t need spigot rings, should I just go for them instead and save myself £1,000?????
You can get plastic spigot rings if you’re worried about metal spigot rings corroding and fusing to the alloys.
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Cheap pret copies are not in the same league - weight or quality wise - but they don’t need spigots (a minor issue common to most after market alloys). I looked at the cheap prets and couldn’t do it. Each to their own. Lots of happy customers on here.
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No experience of aftermarket alloys yet so talk of spigot rings and corrosion spooks me badly.
If spigot rings corrode and fuse to the alloy :
1) are they supposed to? and
2) what difference do fused spigots make to getting the wheels on and off?
Lower cost alloys like CM Prets don’t need spigot rings, should I just go for them instead and save myself £1,000?????
Sorry, that probably came across as overly dramatic. Spigot rings fusing to the alloy is no big deal and will easily fall out when removing the wheel but if you’re nitpicky like me you’ll want to replace them. Also, like others said here you can go with plastic items as long as you don’t plan on tracking the car.
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@P6GTD; there’s a set of genuine 18” forged Belvedere alloys for sale in the ‘Car parts for sale’ section of the forum. They’re described by the seller as ‘mint’ condition and are available with or without tyres. Link; https://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=291168.0
They’re not diamond cut (I thought all Belvedere’s were) so they may have been refurbished. Maybe worth contacting the seller @Peter_booker2003 for more info.
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Wow I had no idea there's a parts sale on the website!
Also I'm definitely refurbishing mine silver if, or more likely when, the whiteworm sets in.
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SRGTD …… thanks for the steer on these. V nice!
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Buy them. And quickly. I would have snapped those up if I hadn't already bought the OZ.
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I think I prefer the OZ HLT.
And…….“collection only” means a 650 mile round trip for me.
Thanks for the heads-up anyway.
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I think I prefer the OZ HLT.
And…….“collection only” means a 650 mile round trip for me.
Thanks for the heads-up anyway.
Where about are you P6GTD? I'm heading north early August and if you are Scotland way could bring them with me. Genuinely mint and look incredible In the flesh.
Cheers
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Wheels have arrived and very happy with them - looks and quality wise. Plus they are 18.5kg versus 20.5kg for my 19" prets and PS4S. Saving 2kg a corner. And the spigot ring is billet aluminium with locking wire - good quality. I am going to smear lightly in lithium grease rather than copper anti-seize (which will induce galvanic corrosion). Wheelbase were great to deal with too.
Excuse the fireside rug... :wink:
(https://i.postimg.cc/43fVNYNX/temp-Imagesj59-Yp.avif) (https://postimg.cc/FY67TsL6)
(https://i.postimg.cc/mDh9CKHq/temp-Image-Kj-XEp-L.avif) (https://postimg.cc/Q9GVr4Sk)
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Wheels have arrived and very happy with them - looks and quality wise. Plus they are 18.5kg versus 20.5kg for my 19" prets and PS4S. Saving 2kg a corner. And the spigot ring is billet aluminium with locking wire - good quality. I am going to smear lightly in lithium grease rather than copper anti-seize (which will induce galvanic corrosion). Wheelbase were great to deal with too.
Excuse the fireside rug...
I really like them: they look very OEM+ and they’re not diamond cut which would be a big plus in my book.
They’ll also be easy to clean, and access to the backs of the spokes and wheel barrels is good too for cleaning those parts that often get overlooked by some owners.
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Wheels have arrived and very happy with them - looks and quality wise. Plus they are 18.5kg versus 20.5kg for my 19" prets and PS4S. Saving 2kg a corner. And the spigot ring is billet aluminium with locking wire - good quality. I am going to smear lightly in lithium grease rather than copper anti-seize (which will induce galvanic corrosion). Wheelbase were great to deal with too.
Excuse the fireside rug...
I really like them: they look very OEM+ and they’re not diamond cut which would be a big plus in my book.
They’ll also be easy to clean, and access to the backs of the spokes and wheel barrels is good too for cleaning those parts that often get overlooked by some owners.
They have brought out the OCD in me and I spent yesterday afternoon coating them - back and front - in C5 Wheel Armour. Very easy to apply for a ceramic.
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Did you do the inner rims with G Technic? I’m trying to establish whether doing this would risk the balance weights coming unstuck.
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Yes. I coated everything, including centre caps. They were already balanced so not an issue for these, but some people report ceramic coating makes it more difficult for weights to stick. But others say not...
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The new wheels are on. The ride is so much better, and quieter - not sure if the road noise is the Contis versus the PS4S (both new), or less resonance from a higher profile tyre. Either way, very pleased. If you want to get the best out of your CS - or any Mk 7 GTi/R - on British roads go for 18s. :smiley:
Side by side the 19" prets do look cooler, but I won't be putting them back on.
(https://i.postimg.cc/N0j1bWwB/temp-Images2-Tp-Jk.avif) (https://postimages.org/)
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Looks great, any chance you can link to the original file like you did with the wheels alone?
This is quite small to discern.
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Looks great, any chance you can link to the original file like you did with the wheels alone?
This is quite small to discern.
The photo on page 6 of the wheels is high res. You can click on it and zoom for detail.
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Usually does but this one brings me to PostImages homepage.
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Better?
(https://i.postimg.cc/nLNxC640/temp-Imageb-BH7-J1.avif) (https://postimg.cc/Y4NZPDyW)
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Yup!
I’m sold on the monster truck look, I’m switching mine to 235s as well.
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:smiley:
They are the same diameter / rolling circumference as the Prets I took off - actually a mm or two less - but the 225s looked too small, and the extra sidewall (marginal) is worth having.
One word of caution (if you haven't thought of this already). Make sure you keep 5 OE wheel bolts in the car for the space saver if you run one as the OZ ones are not the right fit. And keep the thin walled 17mm socket with them, because the VW wheelbrace is too fat.
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There are two things that made me hold off from installing 235s, namely the insurance factor as they are non-standard size and the lack of resources to determine what the new ideal tyre pressure might be cause it's almost certainly not 36psi anymore, probably somewhere between 33 and 35.
I did consider the wheel bolts/socket situation in case of a puncture but my tyre fitter sure didn't as he installed the OZ wheel bolts to my new Belvederes! Only noticed when I got home where I promptly swapped them around however the only difference that I could see was the length of the bolt.
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I notified my insurance company (NFU) re aftermarket wheels and tyre size but no adjustment to policy / premium required.
The OZ bolts have a subtly different seat profile.
As for tyre pressures: the 235s are 95Y and I am currently running at 37 (Clubsport S door plaque says 39 for 19s).
But you can overthink all this....