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Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: fredgroves on 10 March 2017, 09:42

Title: What have VW done here? Aero or detune?
Post by: fredgroves on 10 March 2017, 09:42
I know its been a bit of theme from me, but wondered whether anyone can explain what has happened with the 7.5 GTD.

I have a 2014 Mk7 GTD 5 door manual on 18's.

Its power output, 0-60 time are identical to the 7.5 GTD and GTD-Blue but the CO2 figures and MPG are a fair bit different:

109g/km 67.3 mpg 2014 GTD

125g/km 60.1 mpg 7.5 GTD

119g/km 62.8 mpg 7.5 GTD Blue

Has anyone got the slightest clue as to what VW have done? Comparing the GTD 2014 with the 7.5 GTD everything is the same (actually the new 7.5 has Seville's rather than Nagaro's)...

There's something weird here as its all tested under the same test regime, so its not that.

Only things I can think of are:

1) VW had to make some sort of different tuning for the 7.5 oil burners after disielgate. In fact, didn't I see someone saying about their car having been messed with by a workshop and had worse MPG afterwards?

2) The aero with the new front end is totally sucky. I can't imagine that would be acceptable for VW would it? They wouldn't choose looks over better economy figures?

Anyone got a clue?

PS extra question... did VW previously offer a 17" 17" Curitiba option in mainland Europe? The GTD-Blue comes with these and when I google the wheel name, you see quite a few?
Title: Re: What have VW done here? Aero or detune?
Post by: itavaltalainen on 10 March 2017, 10:02
Maybe the mk7.5 figures you have are of DSG equipped cars?
Mine is 127g/km - MY2017 mk7 GTD with DSG.
Title: Re: What have VW done here? Aero or detune?
Post by: I wanted a GTi on 10 March 2017, 10:13
Maybe VW bullsh!t 18% less now.
Title: Re: What have VW done here? Aero or detune?
Post by: fredgroves on 10 March 2017, 10:15
Maybe the mk7.5 figures you have are of DSG equipped cars?
Mine is 127g/km - MY2017 mk7 GTD with DSG.

No those are definitely manual figures (from my lease company!)

On the 7.5 the gap between manual and DSG has come down.
Title: Re: What have VW done here? Aero or detune?
Post by: itavaltalainen on 10 March 2017, 10:37
VW figures in german configuration suggest 116g/km for manual and 122g/km for DSG.
Who's the lease company, most are more than useless.
Title: Re: What have VW done here? Aero or detune?
Post by: fredgroves on 10 March 2017, 11:05
So why is your figure different to the German configurator?
Title: Re: What have VW done here? Aero or detune?
Post by: davyk31 on 10 March 2017, 11:15
Simple enough - VW lied, then they got caught, now they have to tell the truth or certainly be closer to the truth.
Title: Re: What have VW done here? Aero or detune?
Post by: matchboy on 10 March 2017, 11:22
Those figures are hilarious  :grin:  Over 60 miles to the gallon from a GTD is virtually impossible in the real world.  Take at least 10 off that figure.
Title: Re: What have VW done here? Aero or detune?
Post by: fredgroves on 10 March 2017, 11:43
I've had just over sixty out of mine. Warmish day, long motorway drive in the Netherlands doing 70mph on acc. I reckon if I did 50mph it would be maybe 63. It's not improbable, it's just that all of the conditions need to be there.
Title: Re: What have VW done here? Aero or detune?
Post by: matchboy on 10 March 2017, 12:01
I've had just over sixty out of mine. Warmish day, long motorway drive in the Netherlands doing 70mph on acc. I reckon if I did 50mph it would be maybe 63. It's not improbable, it's just that all of the conditions need to be there.

That's very good.  My missus has 2014 GTD and does mainly motorway driving, albeit in rush hour.  She gets 49 max, all the time.  Maybe its a UK thing!
Title: Re: What have VW done here? Aero or detune?
Post by: itavaltalainen on 10 March 2017, 13:07
So why is your figure different to the German configurator?

German configurator is mk7.5, mine is a pre-facelift.
Title: Re: What have VW done here? Aero or detune?
Post by: fredgroves on 10 March 2017, 13:15
I've had just over sixty out of mine. Warmish day, long motorway drive in the Netherlands doing 70mph on acc. I reckon if I did 50mph it would be maybe 63. It's not improbable, it's just that all of the conditions need to be there.

That's very good.  My missus has 2014 GTD and does mainly motorway driving, albeit in rush hour.  She gets 49 max, all the time.  Maybe its a UK thing!

Weight/wheels/temperature/stop-start and gradients is the key... I had 60mpg from Switzerland back home once as well and that had some fair old ups and downs before hitting the low countries.

Title: Re: What have VW done here? Aero or detune?
Post by: Sootchucker on 10 March 2017, 13:19
My (new) 2016 GTD - worst possible combination for economy - 19" Santiago's and a DSG Box.

My computer checks out to be approx 1mpg optimistic (quite accurate), and where indicated before at over 60mph (or near too it), when I've done a fill up (brim to brim) then manual calculation it's been very close to the on onboard computer.

As Fred says not impossible but you have to be driving carefully to get that. On this one I was sat at just over 50mph for most of my motorway journey home due to roadworks and average speed cameras.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7379/27311458290_d4f3d1c3b5_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HBqn2U)

Anyway, back to Fred's question, the figures are mystery. Especially as the new 7.5 GTD has the new 7 speed DSG box rather than the old 6 speed, and if that 7th gear is more of an overdrive, you would expect the Co2 and MPG figures to be a little better.
Title: Re: What have VW done here? Aero or detune?
Post by: fredgroves on 10 March 2017, 13:51
Those figures are for 5 door manual.... my current car and the 7.5's...

Not DSG... yes, really, DSG is even worse...
Title: Re: What have VW done here? Aero or detune?
Post by: mcmaddy on 11 March 2017, 07:25
VW recently said the economy and co2 figures published from now on were to be more real world. It was in an article in vw driver magazine a good few months ago. I don't think it's anything untoward other than staying more realistic figures.
Title: Re: What have VW done here? Aero or detune?
Post by: fredgroves on 11 March 2017, 11:14
VW recently said the economy and co2 figures published from now on were to be more real world. It was in an article in vw driver magazine a good few months ago. I don't think it's anything untoward other than staying more realistic figures.

That may well be the answer, but really, how can a standardised EU technical measurement test be conducted "more realistically"

Honestly, I've never heard such guff. (not pointing this at you McMaddy!)

That's like me saying I've got a 24" willy, measured using a tape measure then when challenged about it saying that "oh maybe I read that wrong", its only 12" (;-))

Title: Re: What have VW done here? Aero or detune?
Post by: I wanted a GTi on 11 March 2017, 12:01
VW recently said the economy and co2 figures published from now on were to be more real world. It was in an article in vw driver magazine a good few months ago. I don't think it's anything untoward other than staying more realistic figures.

That may well be the answer, but really, how can a standardised EU technical measurement test be conducted "more realistically"

Honestly, I've never heard such guff. (not pointing this at you McMaddy!)

That's like me saying I've got a 24" willy, measured using a tape measure then when challenged about it saying that "oh maybe I read that wrong", its only 12" (;-))

They test the cars in a rolling road so it is quite easy to get the figures they say by testing it that way. VW are not the o my ones doing it this way.
Title: Re: What have VW done here? Aero or detune?
Post by: fredgroves on 11 March 2017, 13:25
How do you mean? I fail to understand... Also surely to God a third party does the testing, not the OEM?
Title: Re: What have VW done here? Aero or detune?
Post by: phope on 11 March 2017, 13:40
Testing is done by the manufacturer to the standards under NEDC requirements - there's a change this year to NEDC requirements, which will partly account for the revised figures for the facelift cars

http://www.caremissionstestingfacts.eu/rde-real-driving-emissions-test/

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/90816/euro-6-emissions-standards-what-do-they-mean-for-you
Title: Re: What have VW done here? Aero or detune?
Post by: I wanted a GTi on 11 March 2017, 13:43
How do you mean? I fail to understand... Also surely to God a third party does the testing, not the OEM?

Look here https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.carwow.co.uk/guides/running/what-is-mpg-0255.amp and scroll down to see the details.

It is the manufacturers themselves that test the cars.
Title: Re: What have VW done here? Aero or detune?
Post by: mcmaddy on 11 March 2017, 14:44
VW are apparently already using the new method.
Title: Re: What have VW done here? Aero or detune?
Post by: I wanted a GTi on 11 March 2017, 17:16
VW are apparently already using the new method.

The new method or their version of the new method? :whistle:
Title: Re: What have VW done here? Aero or detune?
Post by: mcmaddy on 12 March 2017, 08:24
Haha no the actual new method. It's about having more realistic figures rather than what's done under test conditions. Hopefully other car makers will do the same.