GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: seonhughes on 09 February 2017, 12:25
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Hi all,
Been looking to change to a performance Golf for a while now and I'm in need of some help deciding which way to go - GTI or GTD.
I have driven both cars in MK7 form and although i respect that they both have their distinctive characteristics, on a regular journey there really doesn't feel to be much in it to me in terms of every day performance and drivability. My heart is telling me to go for the GTI but my head is telling me GTD. I've been checking used car listings regularly and here there are less than half the amount of MK7 GTI's for sale compared to the amount of GTD's here in Northern Ireland and so there is a significant premium to pay for the petrol version, a trip across the water may be required to get a good deal either way.
Anyway, the only thing attracting me to the diesel is the improved fuel economy and the cheaper VED, I also prefer the Nogaros to the Austins. However my reservation about going down the diesel route is my commute, going to University and work is an 8 mile trip down the M2 and then the same coming home and any other driving would be shorter city journeys and so i fear the car would never really get much of a chance to heat up properly making the fuel economy difference negligible and I may also run the risk of having DPF issues. Am i correct in my thinking?
My main fear is the imminent scrutiny of diesel engined vehicles with the recent reports in the news about the pollution and health issues they cause and I wouldn't want to invest a significant amount of money in a diesel car now in an effort to save money only to loose it all over the course of 3 years anyway in increased servicing and repair costs and any penalties introduced for owning a diesel car. Is diesel dying and is 2017 the year to buy petrol?
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Are you buying new or used?
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If your no doing a lot of miles and the trips you do are short then it is a no brainier to go for the GTi
Remember though that whichever you go for you may find yourself doing longer runs, especially in the GTi because they are such a nice car to drive.
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As a GTD owner twice, it's a no brainer to me...... the GTI. Yep if I was buying again it would be the GTI for sure.
Fuel wise for me, my GTD is averaging around 45mpg (mixed commuting and motorway), and from what I've read on here, a GTI should average around 35 (ish) mpg. For an annual mileage of say 10,000 p.a. and with Diesel (round my way) current £1.219 liter and unleaded £1.199 liter, that would approx equate to £330 year more fuel on the GTI (around £27 month).
In my books, £27 a month to drive a petrol 200+ps turbo hot hatch vs a diesel warm hatch is worth the money any day. Also as you say no one knows how much diesel will be penalized over the coming months / years.
Of course what I don't know is the VED bands in Ireland and the car insurance situation which could sway the decision is they are vastly more expensive than the diesel.
Don't get me wrong, I love my GTD, it's a ruthlessly efficient and capable mile muncher, (but dare i say, just a little non involving as a drivers car), if anything, it's almost too refined, but if I had my time again, I would most certainly have been driving a GTI.
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Are you buying new or used?
I would be buying used, looking at 2013 models a low mile GTD can be had for £2kish less than the equivalent GTI.
As a GTD owner twice, it's a no brainer to me...... the GTI. Yep if I was buying again it would be the GTI for sure.
Fuel wise for me, my GTD is averaging around 45mpg (mixed commuting and motorway), and from what I've read on here, a GTI should average around 35 (ish) mpg. For an annual mileage of say 10,000 p.a. and with Diesel (round my way) current £1.219 liter and unleaded £1.199 liter, that would approx equate to £330 year more fuel on the GTI (around £27 month).
In my books, £27 a month to drive a petrol 200+ps turbo hot hatch vs a diesel warm hatch is worth the money any day. Also as you say no one knows how much diesel will be penalized over the coming months / years.
Of course what I don't know is the VED bands in Ireland and the car insurance situation which could sway the decision is they are vastly more expensive than the diesel.
Don't get me wrong, I love my GTD, it's a ruthlessly efficient and capable mile muncher, (but dare i say, just a little non involving as a drivers car), if anything, it's almost too refined, but if I had my time again, I would most certainly have been driving a GTI.
I'm in NI so we have the same VED bands so the GTI at £130 and the GTD at £30 p/a. Local fuel prices unleaded £1.169 and diesel £1.189 so the same 2p difference so your £27 a month calculation would stand true for me too.
Another way i suppose of looking at it is I'm currently driving a year old 1.2 suzuki swift which is averaging 35mpg combined so realistically a GTI won't increase my fuel bills - except for the increase in pointless trips just for the fun of it :grin:
My main issue isn't really the running costs so much as any imminent changes to how diesels are treated by the government, the only thing still drawing me to one is that there are so much more of them on the roads that the savings on the used market may well pay for any problems i would face.
Forgot to mention the insurance issue too, for me at 21 with 2 years no claims they were both coming in at under £800 so this isn't really a deciding factor for me as I paid £750 this year anyway for a 92bhp 1.2 engine - I don't have any complaints about paying an extra 50 quid this year for more than double the power!
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Are you buying new or used?
I would be buying used, looking at 2013 models a low mile GTD can be had for £2kish less than the equivalent GTI.
£2k... whatever other things may or may not happen, that is a lot of cash for a 21 year old student to find or to save... or at least it was when I was a 21 year old student.
My honest opinion on the oil burners is that the government are unlikely to do very much because diesel is so important to commercial vehicles. They might adjust the road tax for new vehicles, but I doubt they'd do much to a car with a Euro6 engine *yet*.
The 8 mile daily trip though, I'd seriously doubt you will see the savings on fuel a GTD will deliver. It would cost you about the same as a GTI in fuel would be my experience based on 3 years of GTD driving.
The DPF might also be a problem, but from what I've seen and heard so far on the latest 2.0 TDI engine system, its less of a problem than it was before and you get plenty of warning to go for a burn up before it dies, unlike previously.
Still there is the 2k price difference...
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As a GTD owner twice, it's a no brainer to me...... the GTI. Yep if I was buying again it would be the GTI for sure.
Fuel wise for me, my GTD is averaging around 45mpg (mixed commuting and motorway), and from what I've read on here, a GTI should average around 35 (ish) mpg. For an annual mileage of say 10,000 p.a. and with Diesel (round my way) current £1.219 liter and unleaded £1.199 liter, that would approx equate to £330 year more fuel on the GTI (around £27 month).
In my books, £27 a month to drive a petrol 200+ps turbo hot hatch vs a diesel warm hatch is worth the money any day. Also as you say no one knows how much diesel will be penalized over the coming months / years.
Of course what I don't know is the VED bands in Ireland and the car insurance situation which could sway the decision is they are vastly more expensive than the diesel.
Don't get me wrong, I love my GTD, it's a ruthlessly efficient and capable mile muncher, (but dare i say, just a little non involving as a drivers car), if anything, it's almost too refined, but if I had my time again, I would most certainly have been driving a GTI.
Very interesting to read your views on the GTD or GTI debate as you are a current GTD owner.
I've driven diesels for years and my wife's Audi A3 S Line 150 diesel is a very nice car indeed.
Trouble is, after driving my GTI and then getting into her Audi, I feel like her car weighs double what mine does.
I know hers is 80bhp down on mine but it feels like 180bhp.
You can't beat the feeling of a good petrol engine
PS
Her car is a DSG which I think does it no favours whatsoever :whistle:
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I'd vote for GTI - you may be paying 2k more for it initially but it'll probably be worth more when you sell (although maybe not as much as 2k)
Also it's a lot less likely to need stuff fixing due to DPF issues. My missus has an Astra 2.0CDTI which is pretty good for an oil burner but she only does short trips since we moved house and I'm always out in it simply going for a run to clear the DPF.
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Of course what I don't know is the VED bands in Ireland and the car insurance situation which could sway the decision is they are vastly more expensive than the diesel.
... I doubt you have missed a Geography class or 2. :tongue:
Out of curiosity I looked this up as I remember a friend telling me it was seriously expensive in Ireland. The GTD or GTI would be €710 a year :shocked:
However, Northern Ireland is part a of the UK and VED is the same as Great Britain.
I would have thought that the GTD would have held it's value better given the proximity to cheaper Euro diesel. Though I know Belfast is a fair bit from the border.
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Even if you could fuel from the Republic, its not actually that much cheaper according to this:
http://www.theaa.ie/aa/motoring-advice/petrol-prices.aspx
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Even if you could fuel from the Republic, its not actually that much cheaper according to this:
http://www.theaa.ie/aa/motoring-advice/petrol-prices.aspx
Yeah, with the current exchange rate Euro diesel is only slightly cheaper.
Look at the price of petrol vs diesel in Ireland - €1.28 vs €1.14.
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I'd like to chime in with something completely different (not an R). I had a test drive in a new 1.8 Polo GTI yesterday - great car for fun driving. Feels as quick as a Golf GTI (very similar power to weight ratio), but still a little rough around the edges. The Performance MK7's refinement really does take a bit of excitement away because they're all way quicker than they feel. Do you need a car the size of a Golf?
Downsides are far less standard equipment and if you do regular long journeys you might wish you had the MK7's refinement (although Newcastle to York in the wife's A1 on the same underpinnings is fine).
The above applies to the 1.8, don't get the 1.4 twin-charge.
GFV on the Polo GTI looks far better than the Golf's and it comes with a free year's insurance (when bought new).
I'm almost tempted myself - a colleague keeps hassling me to sell him my R.
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£2k... whatever other things may or may not happen, that is a lot of cash for a 21 year old student to find or to save... or at least it was when I was a 21 year old student.
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My swift is currently on finance and costing £185 p/m and I'm not struggling with that, looking at the dealers websites with the finance quotes shown for the car putting £1500 deposit down on a GTD at £15,000 is working out between £200-220 p/m depending on the GFV of the particular so for me paying an extra tenner a week to be in a nice hot hatch is a no brainer :grin:
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I'd like to chime in with something completely different (not an R). I had a test drive in a new 1.8 Polo GTI yesterday - great car for fun driving. Feels as quick as a Golf GTI (very similar power to weight ratio), but still a little rough around the edges. The Performance MK7's refinement really does take a bit of excitement away because they're all way quicker than they feel. Do you need a car the size of a Golf?
Downsides are far less standard equipment and if you do regular long journeys you might wish you had the MK7's refinement (although Newcastle to York in the wife's A1 on the same underpinnings is fine).
The above applies to the 1.8, don't get the 1.4 twin-charge.
I did debate the Polo GTI but in the used market there's not much on offer for my budget, plus as much of an excellent car it may be I know one day I'll pull up to a set of lights beside the Golf and kick myself for not getting one :grin:
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OP - my view is that which ever car you choose it'll be a big pile of cash. So, go with what you really want as that way you'll be happier with your purchase. Or, just go with your heart and lucky you! At 21 I was driving a rusty old Capri although I did love it :kiss: (the kiss is for my first car by the way :wink:).
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Sounds like you've thought about it, there aren't any real major cost savings (for you) to driving an oil burner.
Don't forget to come back and show us your new baby when she arrives :D
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Thanks for the input people, I think GTI it is then!
I know it's a lot of money for a car at my age but the way i look at it is a lot of people (some of my friends included) are spending the same money on rent for a dingy student house as i would be spending on my lovely Golf payments and fuelling it every month :wink:
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The sensible and older me says get a mk5 or 6 gti and save some cash. Enjoy living life with the minimum fixed out goings as you can.
Whatever happens don't buy a diesel, life is too short.
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The sensible and older me says get a mk5 or 6 gti and save some cash. Enjoy living life with the minimum fixed out goings as you can.
What he just said. Plenty of time for new cars.
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I was in the same dilemma when looking to change frim my A3 tdi sport I was doing about the same millage as I'm doing now on my commute but at the weekends I was parking it up and driving the wife's scirocco also a 2lt tdi.
So when I was looking at the mk7 my 1st thoughts were for a diesel but doing low millage and things like dpd filters n comparison fuel charges once I'd dug deeper I opted for the Gti my fuel return is around 35 apr but the grin factor out weighs the cost..
Good luck in your search and hopefully commen sense will prevail and you get the awsome GTI lol :whistle:
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Thanks for the input people, I think GTI it is then!
I know it's a lot of money for a car at my age but the way i look at it is a lot of people (some of my friends included) are spending the same money on rent for a dingy student house as i would be spending on my lovely Golf payments and fuelling it every month :wink:
You obviously love cars and you know what a good car is, which is why you're on here. When I was a student I spent all of my spare cash on cars, but they were 10 year old bangers.
The Golf is the best all-round car in the world, and the GTD is lovely, but the GTi is the business in terms of refinement and all-round competence. I haven't had anything else since 1990. This current MK7 GTi engine is superb and turbine smooth all the way through the rev range. And as you say, they are a rarer sight on the road, more of a reason to go for it. Get a PP if you can.
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I'm in N Ireland too and as the OP knows this is diesel country big time. My wife drives the GTD and even if you are only doing 8 miles so long as it's at a decent pace you won't have any DPF issues and you will realise good economy. Ours averages over 50mpg long term on both A road and town driving. Stick to A Roads and 55 to 60 mph and you can easily see 60mpg. That and the £20 road tax made it a no brainer for me between GTI and GTD when I bought 3 years ago. The other factor as already mentioned is that a GTD in good spec, miles, colour etc will be much easier to sell in NI than a GTI which often sit with dealers quite a while.
I am now back to the same decision as I'm thinking of changing and pretty sure it will be GTD again for all the reasons mentioned. If you're in the market for the most immaculate 2014 GTD in white with 23k miles and the very rare options of sat nav and leather interior let me know. To get one of those options in a GTD is rare and to get both is extremely rare. I specced both new and love the interior especially with the heated seats.
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Thanks for the input people, I think GTI it is then!
I know it's a lot of money for a car at my age but the way i look at it is a lot of people (some of my friends included) are spending the same money on rent for a dingy student house as i would be spending on my lovely Golf payments and fuelling it every month :wink:
You obviously love cars and you know what a good car is, which is why you're on here. When I was a student I spent all of my spare cash on cars, but they were 10 year old bangers.
The Golf is the best all-round car in the world, and the GTD is lovely, but the GTi is the business in terms of refinement and all-round competence. I haven't had anything else since 1990. This current MK7 GTi engine is superb and turbine smooth all the way through the rev range. And as you say, they are a rarer sight on the road, more of a reason to go for it. Get a PP if you can.
I know I'm still young at 20 but this will be my fifth car and I've had enough experience of bangers to last me a lifetime, I don't mind Spending the bigger money on something I know I'll love and be happy with and will hopefully last me the 3-4 year term with minimal trouble
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I'm in N Ireland too and as the OP knows this is diesel country big time. My wife drives the GTD and even if you are only doing 8 miles so long as it's at a decent pace you won't have any DPF issues and you will realise good economy. Ours averages over 50mpg long term on both A road and town driving. Stick to A Roads and 55 to 60 mph and you can easily see 60mpg. That and the £20 road tax made it a no brainer for me between GTI and GTD when I bought 3 years ago. The other factor as already mentioned is that a GTD in good spec, miles, colour etc will be much easier to sell in NI than a GTI which often sit with dealers quite a while.
I am now back to the same decision as I'm thinking of changing and pretty sure it will be GTD again for all the reasons mentioned. If you're in the market for the most immaculate 2014 GTD in white with 23k miles and the very rare options of sat nav and leather interior let me know. To get one of those options in a GTD is rare and to get both is extremely rare. I specced both new and love the interior especially with the heated seats.
Diesel country it is indeed, surprising then we don't have The same pollution levels of other parts of the world considering the vast amount of them in and around Belfast especially with all the commuters. It'll be summer time before it's time to change car anyway so I'll sit tight and see what the government decides to do about diesels before the time comes for me to choose what one to go for. I do have a suspicion that as fantastic a car the GTD is and how close it is to it's petrol sibling in both performance and aesthetics I just don't feel Like I'd truly enjoy owning it and love it in the way I would the GTI
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Try both and see which you prefer. I am a petrol head but love the GTD. It's not so much about the engine although the mass of torque appeals, it's mainly about how nimble a Mk 7 Golf feels with great damping and lovely direct steering. Great cars for sure.
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I'm in N Ireland too and as the OP knows this is diesel country big time. My wife drives the GTD and even if you are only doing 8 miles so long as it's at a decent pace you won't have any DPF issues and you will realise good economy. Ours averages over 50mpg long term on both A road and town driving. Stick to A Roads and 55 to 60 mph and you can easily see 60mpg. That and the £20 road tax made it a no brainer for me between GTI and GTD when I bought 3 years ago. The other factor as already mentioned is that a GTD in good spec, miles, colour etc will be much easier to sell in NI than a GTI which often sit with dealers quite a while.
I am now back to the same decision as I'm thinking of changing and pretty sure it will be GTD again for all the reasons mentioned. If you're in the market for the most immaculate 2014 GTD in white with 23k miles and the very rare options of sat nav and leather interior let me know. To get one of those options in a GTD is rare and to get both is extremely rare. I specced both new and love the interior especially with the heated seats.
Diesel country it is indeed, surprising then we don't have The same pollution levels of other parts of the world considering the vast amount of them in and around Belfast especially with all the commuters. It'll be summer time before it's time to change car anyway so I'll sit tight and see what the government decides to do about diesels before the time comes for me to choose what one to go for. I do have a suspicion that as fantastic a car the GTD is and how close it is to it's petrol sibling in both performance and aesthetics I just don't feel Like I'd truly enjoy owning it and love it in the way I would the GTI
That will be the nice Irish air that gets rid of the pollution. The most polluted street in London is not accessible by car, only taxis, busses and delivery trucks. Not a VW in sight.
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Try both and see which you prefer. I am a petrol head but love the GTD. It's not so much about the engine although the mass of torque appeals, it's mainly about how nimble a Mk 7 Golf feels with great damping and lovely direct steering. Great cars for sure.
Good advice. Best of luck with your choice.
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I'm in N Ireland too and as the OP knows this is diesel country big time. My wife drives the GTD and even if you are only doing 8 miles so long as it's at a decent pace you won't have any DPF issues and you will realise good economy. Ours averages over 50mpg long term on both A road and town driving. Stick to A Roads and 55 to 60 mph and you can easily see 60mpg. That and the £20 road tax made it a no brainer for me between GTI and GTD when I bought 3 years ago. The other factor as already mentioned is that a GTD in good spec, miles, colour etc will be much easier to sell in NI than a GTI which often sit with dealers quite a while.
I am now back to the same decision as I'm thinking of changing and pretty sure it will be GTD again for all the reasons mentioned. If you're in the market for the most immaculate 2014 GTD in white with 23k miles and the very rare options of sat nav and leather interior let me know. To get one of those options in a GTD is rare and to get both is extremely rare. I specced both new and love the interior especially with the heated seats.
Diesel country it is indeed, surprising then we don't have The same pollution levels of other parts of the world considering the vast amount of them in and around Belfast especially with all the commuters. It'll be summer time before it's time to change car anyway so I'll sit tight and see what the government decides to do about diesels before the time comes for me to choose what one to go for. I do have a suspicion that as fantastic a car the GTD is and how close it is to it's petrol sibling in both performance and aesthetics I just don't feel Like I'd truly enjoy owning it and love it in the way I would the GTI
That will be the nice Irish air that gets rid of the pollution. The most polluted street in London is not accessible by car, only taxis, busses and delivery trucks. Not a VW in sight.
Food for thought eh. May well just be another big money making scheme for the government like these new VED bands as everyone started to buy the newer lower emission cars, which diesels obviously already fitted well into with the predominantly £20-30 p/a cost and now they're trying to recoup the losses in tax from them by penalising everyone for buying new - I certainly won't be buying a car with any sort of decent performance brand new again that's for sure
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^ The government certainly will be making more when almost everyone is in a car that will cost £140 a year after year 1. Is the showroom tax on a performance model really going to be that big a hit though? The R and manual Audi S3 attract £500 tax, the S-Tronic S3 sneaks into the lower band (£220?), but will be £45 a year cheaper to tax than it was before. In the grand scheme of things, an additional £225 in tax over 3 years (£500 + £140 + £140 vs 3 × £185) is hardly a deal breaker - it is less than a month's depreciation on a performance Golf.
I would rather have a new car and cop for the £225 extra than buy a nearly new one at almost the same price as a well discounted new one.
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The OP raises an interesting question: are petrols more future-proof than diesels? My hunch is that we'll see increasing VED on diesels because the politicians won't be able to resist the opportunity to do so. They will claim that it's to protect air quality.
Also, local authorities (especially car hating ones - I'm looking at you, Southampton) might impose entry charges for diesels. Buses and taxis will be exempt of course because public transport is good, apparently.
Generally, if there's a policy to switch from diesels, the only way it'll work is if they make diesels more expensive to run than is currently the case. Just my musings, you understand.
Bubba.
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^ The government certainly will be making more when almost everyone is in a car that will cost £140 a year after year 1. Is the showroom tax on a performance model really going to be that big a hit though? The R and manual Audi S3 attract £500 tax, the S-Tronic S3 sneaks into the lower band (£220?), but will be £45 a year cheaper to tax than it was before. In the grand scheme of things, an additional £225 in tax over 3 years (£500 + £140 + £140 vs 3 × £185) is hardly a deal breaker - it is less than a month's depreciation on a performance Golf.
I would rather have a new car and cop for the £225 extra than buy a nearly new one at almost the same price as a well discounted new one.
True, when saying i would steer away from brand new buys after april of this year with the VED changes coming into effect i meant that as in I would rather be in my current situation of buying a 3 year old model (say buying a 2017 reg in 2020) then it would be preferable to pay just the £140 p/a than buying brand new and taking the larger hit, although as you say it doesn't really amount to much extra over the 3 year term.
However my government money making point was more towards this change being a killer is for people buying cars like my Swift, currently only £30 p/a to tax but in the example i mentioned of buying a 2017 car in 2020 i would be forking out £140 to tax a car that would have been £110 less if it had been registered the year before.
Where this will certainly be beneficial is to the drivers of the big Range Rover types - currently paying £515 a year this will reduce down also to the £140 after the big initial hit is taken by the buyer who gets it brand new. Then again, there are less of these cars on the road than the ones like mine falling into the lower bands so the government is still obviously going to be making more money across the board than they are now.
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The OP raises an interesting question: are petrols more future-proof than diesels? My hunch is that we'll see increasing VED on diesels because the politicians won't be able to resist the opportunity to do so. They will claim that it's to protect air quality.
Also, local authorities (especially car hating ones - I'm looking at you, Southampton) might impose entry charges for diesels. Buses and taxis will be exempt of course because public transport is good, apparently.
Generally, if there's a policy to switch from diesels, the only way it'll work is if they make diesels more expensive to run than is currently the case. Just my musings, you understand.
Bubba.
This was my original thinking too, it might well be easier to play it safe and go for the petrol just to be on the safe side. We'll just have to wait a few weeks and see what is announced in the Chancellor's budget next month to be sure what way the government wants to play it.
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The OP raises an interesting question: are petrols more future-proof than diesels? My hunch is that we'll see increasing VED on diesels because the politicians won't be able to resist the opportunity to do so. They will claim that it's to protect air quality.
Also, local authorities (especially car hating ones - I'm looking at you, Southampton) might impose entry charges for diesels. Buses and taxis will be exempt of course because public transport is good, apparently.
Generally, if there's a policy to switch from diesels, the only way it'll work is if they make diesels more expensive to run than is currently the case. Just my musings, you understand.
Bubba.
I suspect it'll be higher fuel duty on diesel and possibly a small drop on petrol. If you increase VED a high miler may still find diesel cheaper but increasing the price differential at the pump will hurt all diesel users. Plus as you say charges or even exemptions on diesels entering cities.
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You won't be disappointed in either. I had the GTD for nearly 3 years and my commute was 11 miles and never once had any DPF issues. I think that would only really rear its head if someone was literally just popping to the local shops and never going anywhere else.
The GTD is only really just warming up at that mileage so you don't get the best 60+mpg out of it but I would easily see 50mpg regularly but I could also see 30+mpg depending on how I drove it. On long journeys it would achieve 60+mpg if sensible.
My wife has the GTI and I would regularly take her car to work. Again at 11 miles you won't see the best of its mileage as it excels in longer mileage. It would hit low 30s and sometimes high 20's on the same journey.
In terms of acceleration I had the DTUK box on mine so took it up on par with the BHP of the GTI. So I had the acceleration and the MPG in my favour on the GTD. The power delivery on both is totally different though. Having drove my GTD for a couple of years before the GTI came along, I found when I had the GTI, Nissan Micras and Hyundai i10's were belting away from me at the lights :grin: all because I was driving it like a diesel. If you are coming from a petrol you won't find that though.
Although I loved my GTD and really bonded with the car, there was something I liked about driving the petrol GTI. It just felt more nimble and livelier. A bit like having 2 puppies, one always jumping about full of energy and the other always sleeping :grin: However wake the sleeping one up and away it goes :laugh:
Interestingly I gave my GTD to my son who was driving a Swift like yourself. The step up in quality is 50 fold. He loves it. Although he was getting 34mpg in his swift I don't think he's getting much more than that in the GTD :rolleyes:
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You won't be disappointed in either. I had the GTD for nearly 3 years and my commute was 11 miles and never once had any DPF issues. I think that would only really rear its head if someone was literally just popping to the local shops and never going anywhere else.
The GTD is only really just warming up at that mileage so you don't get the best 60+mpg out of it but I would easily see 50mpg regularly but I could also see 30+mpg depending on how I drove it. On long journeys it would achieve 60+mpg if sensible.
My wife has the GTI and I would regularly take her car to work. Again at 11 miles you won't see the best of its mileage as it excels in longer mileage. It would hit low 30s and sometimes high 20's on the same journey.
In terms of acceleration I had the DTUK box on mine so took it up on par with the BHP of the GTI. So I had the acceleration and the MPG in my favour on the GTD. The power delivery on both is totally different though. Having drove my GTD for a couple of years before the GTI came along, I found when I had the GTI, Nissan Micras and Hyundai i10's were belting away from me at the lights :grin: all because I was driving it like a diesel. If you are coming from a petrol you won't find that though.
Although I loved my GTD and really bonded with the car, there was something I liked about driving the petrol GTI. It just felt more nimble and livelier. A bit like having 2 puppies, one always jumping about full of energy and the other always sleeping :grin: However wake the sleeping one up and away it goes :laugh:
Interestingly I gave my GTD to my son who was driving a Swift like yourself. The step up in quality is 50 fold. He loves it. Although he was getting 34mpg in his swift I don't think he's getting much more than that in the GTD :rolleyes:
Honestly fuel economy isn't really much of a concern as I am happy enough with the 35mpg i get currently from the swift so a GTI that would match that or a GTD that would better that would be fine for me. I think if the forthcoming punishment if you will for diesel drivers isn't so bad and maybe just a few extra pence of fuel duty then i reckon just in terms of the cost of running the car not factoring payments or depreciation will even out - GTD cheaper to buy used, slightly more expensive to fuel but does better MPG; GTI more expensive to buy used, slightly cheaper to fuel but worse MPG they might just break even in terms of ownership costs over the 3 years - however what i need to pay most attention to is the largest difference being the cost of the car itself as doing 10kish miles per year i doubt the cheaper fuel on the GTI would ever make up the difference of around a £2k premium for choosing GTI over GTD, not to mention the big difference in annual tax but then this may well change to hurt the GTD with it's current low band. Then again as mentioned before although the GTI is more expensive on the used market, this might help with keeping the monthly payments around the same for both cars as the residuals may well be better - whether they will be £2k better however is very unlikely
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The VED changes from April on new vehicles is simply because the incentive for low pollution petrol and diesel cars is hurting them. We've all followed the incentive as per their plan and tax revenues are unsustainable. I don't agree with over turning that personally, I think the pollution problem is more important and that the shortfall in tax take should be made up elsewhere than from green motorists. Particularly I find it somewhat disappointing that someone with something like a golf r get a tax cut and a Toyota iq gets a massive rise. By all means raise one, but don't cut the other you idiots!
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OP - you can over think these things. Unless you have a specific need that will draw you to a particular car, buy what you really want. A few hundred or even £1k or so over 3 or 4 years won't make much difference but putting up with second best after a few months will annoy you every time you go for a drive.
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Seon
10k a year difference between petrol and diesel isn't going to be that great, depreciation over the period you own the car will be much greater than the difference in fuel costs/VED etc
The only reason to buy a GTD is if you want save money on fuel and if you really wanted to save money you wouldn't ideally be looking at purchasing a new car anyway?
Go for the GTI, you needn't over rationalise a car purchase like this otherwise we would all be driving round in a banger or Toyota Pious :smiley:.
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Seon
10k a year difference between petrol and diesel isn't going to be that great, depreciation over the period you own the car will be much greater than the difference in fuel costs/VED etc
The only reason to buy a GTD is if you want save money on fuel and if you really wanted to save money you wouldn't ideally be looking at purchasing a new car anyway?
Go for the GTI, you needn't over rationalise a car purchase like this otherwise we would all be driving round in a banger or Toyota Pious :smiley:.
The reason for my dilemma was that there are a good few more GTD's up for sale over here than there are GTI's and they were also quite a bit cheaper - wasn't so much worried about running costs it was to do with if I did in the end go for the cheaper GTD than the GTI then would i end up regretting the decision because whatever the government do to drive people away from diesel could well end up costing me that difference so I may as well have just bought the more expensive GTI in the first place. I am leaning more towards the GTI anyways as a lot of you have said I'd be happier with it and i suppose the satisfaction and happiness in the car is worth the extra 20 quid a month or whatever it may be for the dearer car.
A trip across the water may be in order, a cheap flight and a ferry home will be a lot cheaper than paying the premium for buying in NI - just need to find a dealer offering a good APR on the used finance
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Don't shop with your dealer for finance on a used car. You will get much much better deals from other banks and finance houses.
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Don't shop with your dealer for finance on a used car. You will get much much better deals from other banks and finance houses.
Fully agree with you here banks are way better than dealers when I was looking my own bank was 5.6% and tesco was the best at 4.9% dealers were around 9.9% approx :whistle:
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Don't shop with your dealer for finance on a used car. You will get much much better deals from other banks and finance houses.
Don't shop with your dealer for finance on a used car. You will get much much better deals from other banks and finance houses.
Fully agree with you here banks are way better than dealers when I was looking my own bank was 5.6% and tesco was the best at 4.9% dealers were around 9.9% approx :whistle:
My local dealer does 6.9% APR which isn't far off those rates you've quoted from the bank, although most around here vary from 10-13% so places a bit of a limit on cars to choose from if i can only go to that dealer. Only problem with the bank loan is that even though the APR is lower the monthly payment is higher than with a PCP because the repayments to the bank would be for the whole loan amount over the loan term whereas with PCP the repayments are limited to the difference in the cost of the car + any interest charges and fees minus the GFV of the car.
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Don't shop with your dealer for finance on a used car. You will get much much better deals from other banks and finance houses.
Don't shop with your dealer for finance on a used car. You will get much much better deals from other banks and finance houses.
Fully agree with you here banks are way better than dealers when I was looking my own bank was 5.6% and tesco was the best at 4.9% dealers were around 9.9% approx :whistle:
Only problem with the bank loan is that even though the APR is lower the monthly payment is higher than with a PCP because the repayments to the bank would be for the whole loan amount over the loan term whereas with PCP the repayments are limited to the difference in the cost of the car + any interest charges and fees minus the GFV of the car.
There is an easy way around the above - You don't look to pay off a £25k car with a 3 year loan unless you really want to. To get PCP equivalent payments at bankloan APR%, take out that £25k over 5 years and what is left to pay after 36 months is basically your GFV. Either keep the loan going or trade in and ask for cashback on your trade-in to clear the loan.
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The sensible and older me says get a mk5 or 6 gti and save some cash. Enjoy living life with the minimum fixed out goings as you can.
What he just said. Plenty of time for new cars.
At 20, I would get some ins. quotes for the mk6 vs mk7, as I'm sure the 7 works out a lot cheaper thanks to the driver aids etc.
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There is an easy way around the above - You don't look to pay off a £25k car with a 3 year loan unless you really want to. To get PCP equivalent payments at bankloan APR%, take out that £25k over 5 years and what is left to pay after 36 months is basically your GFV. Either keep the loan going or trade in and ask for cashback on your trade-in to clear the loan.
Tesco are offering 3.4% (good rate btw!) on a 5 year 25k loan... £453 pounds a month.
Whilst what you are correct in what you say, the monthlies are always going to be higher than PCP, even over 5 years, because you are repaying 100% of the full purchase price of the car.
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The sensible and older me says get a mk5 or 6 gti and save some cash. Enjoy living life with the minimum fixed out goings as you can.
What he just said. Plenty of time for new cars.
At 20, I would get some ins. quotes for the mk6 vs mk7, as I'm sure the 7 works out a lot cheaper thanks to the driver aids etc.
The 7 is working out a good bit cheaper thanks to the lower insurance groups - come the time to change I'll be 21 with 2 years NCB so I've altered my quote details to reflect this and compared to other people my age who are just passing their test now paying £800 to insure a 220hp car is a steal
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There is an easy way around the above - You don't look to pay off a £25k car with a 3 year loan unless you really want to. To get PCP equivalent payments at bankloan APR%, take out that £25k over 5 years and what is left to pay after 36 months is basically your GFV. Either keep the loan going or trade in and ask for cashback on your trade-in to clear the loan.
Tesco are offering 3.4% (good rate btw!) on a 5 year 25k loan... £453 pounds a month.
Whilst what you are correct in what you say, the monthlies are always going to be higher than PCP, even over 5 years, because you are repaying 100% of the full purchase price of the car.
The differences in the monthly payments between the two are massive which is my main concern. Although the charge for credit on the PCP would be around double that of the bank loan, the lower monthly payments still make more sense. Plus going through the dealer makes the process a bit easier for me.
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Tesco are offering 3.4% (good rate btw!) on a 5 year 25k loan... £453 pounds a month.
I'll raise you :grin: Clydesdale are doing 3% Or if you have a nectar card, Sainsbury's bank are 2.9%
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There is an easy way around the above - You don't look to pay off a £25k car with a 3 year loan unless you really want to. To get PCP equivalent payments at bankloan APR%, take out that £25k over 5 years and what is left to pay after 36 months is basically your GFV. Either keep the loan going or trade in and ask for cashback on your trade-in to clear the loan.
Tesco are offering 3.4% (good rate btw!) on a 5 year 25k loan... £453 pounds a month.
Whilst what you are correct in what you say, the monthlies are always going to be higher than PCP, even over 5 years, because you are repaying 100% of the full purchase price of the car.
Only if you want to. If you stop the loan short at 3 yeara, you'll still owe about 45% of what you borrowed, pretty close to GFV. - you'd be in slight positive equity at 3 years vs PCP for the extra you have paid in your example. You can of course tweak the repayment period to 63/66 months to get you owing half of the capital borrowed at 36 months. This is exactly like PCP. To get to the point of coving the depreciation capital plus interest of what you have borrowed, a PCP is very similar to taking out a 5 year loan and stopping it after 3 years, except you don't have to pay back what you still owe, you hand the car back instead.
If you take out a loan which is less than the APR of PCP finance and pick a term thereby after 3 years you have covered the depreciation, it will be cheaper than PCP.
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I still couldn't get this straight in my head, so I worked some basic numbers:
IGNORING INTEREST (because the difference is not much really):
PCP:
£21000 cost
£5000 gfv
£16000 loan
36 month term
£444.44 monthly
Loan from the bank:
£21000 loan
48 month term
£437.5 monthly
If you stop at 36 months into the 48 month term, you still owe the bank £5244.... which is roughly your GFV.
So you only have the advantages of interest rates to gain really.
BUT one more thing I will say... a PCP credit agreement is easier to get because you do not own the car. Its a secured loan.
A loan from a bank is just a cash loan, they probably will ask for detailed income statements etc etc and may not lend money to a student, unless your parents guarantee it...
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PCP is easier to secure (especially for a 20 year old who's had a maximum 2 years credit history), but interest differences can be quite significant. If you're buying a nearly new £22k car at 10% APR, you'll pay about £5k in interest over 3 years. you could be paying a third of that with a low APR % loan.
Personally, for differences in APR VWFS give you for new vs nearly new and the fact you get deposit contribution and better scope for discount, i'd go new rather than go one year old. There'll be nowt in monthlies between a brand new GTI got for £24.5k at 6% APR vs a year old one for £22k with 10% APR.