GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: Sootchucker on 24 January 2017, 08:10
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Hi guys.
The following is for nothing more than my own curiosity and a bit of fun, but whilst I'm really happy with my second GTD, and the fuel consumption overall (at just over 45mpg) with a best of 62.4mpg is what I expected, I was just wondering with the really cold mornings and frost here, what others are getting from their petrol GTI's and R's under the following conditions.
Cold start, frosty morning (so a few minutes of the car running to clear the windows etc). Approx 10-15 mile journey a mix of urban (major town / city driving) and 50-60mph dual carriageways.
Under the above circumstances, by the time I arrive at work (approx 20 minutes and 10 miles), the water temp has already hit 90 deg C, but the oil temp around 70-80 deg C, heated rear window, heated front window (god I love this), heated mirrors all on for the first 5-10 minutes, full lights on, heater on (set to 23 deg C) for the whole journey (but AC off) with auxiliary heater set to auto , and heated drivers seat on for most of the journey (that's a lot of electrical load), I'm getting approx 37-42mpg (depending on traffic lights etc).
How does that sound against other GTD owners and more importantly petrol GTI and R owners ? I would expect the quicker warm up of the petrol engines to have a significant benefit, and certainly against a GTI, wouldn't expect much of an advantage (maybe a few MPG better on the GTD only) ?
Like I said, for no other reason (honestly :grin:) than my own curiosity, as whilst I have a couple of years left on the GTD (and in no hurry to change it), I honestly think with the governments change in stance over diesel engine cars getting stronger, this will most likely be my last diesel engined car as petrol engine vehicles have made such great advances over the years, and my thinking is that in a few years time, they won't be far behind where diesels are today (and cleaner to boot) ?
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Hi guys.
The following is for nothing more than my own curiosity and a bit of fun, but whilst I'm really happy with my second GTD, and the fuel consumption overall (at just over 45mpg) with a best of 62.4mpg is what I expected, I was just wondering with the really cold mornings and frost here, what others are getting from their petrol GTI's and R's under the following conditions.
Cold start, frosty morning (so a few minutes of the car running to clear the windows etc). Approx 10-15 mile journey a mix of urban (major town / city driving) and 50-60mph dual carriageways.
Under the above circumstances, by the time I arrive at work (approx 20 minutes and 10 miles), the water temp has already hit 90 deg C, but the oil temp around 70-80 deg C, heated rear window, heated front window (god I love this), heated mirrors all on for the first 5-10 minutes, full lights on, heater on (set to 23 deg C) for the whole journey (but AC off) with auxiliary heater set to auto , and heated drivers seat on for most of the journey (that's a lot of electrical load), I'm getting approx 37-42mpg (depending on traffic lights etc).
How does that sound against other GTD owners and more importantly petrol GTI and R owners ? I would expect the quicker warm up of the petrol engines to have a significant benefit, and certainly against a GTI, wouldn't expect much of an advantage (maybe a few MPG better on the GTD only) ?
Like I said, for no other reason (honestly :grin:) than my own curiosity, as whilst I have a couple of years left on the GTD (and in no hurry to change it), I honestly think with the governments change in stance over diesel engine cars getting stronger, this will most likely be my last diesel engined car as petrol engine vehicles have made such great advances over the years, and my thinking is that in a few years time, they won't be far behind where diesels are today (and cleaner to boot) ?
Morning Sootchucker
With owning a GTI, I do get a little less MPG than you, at the moment I'm averaging around 30-33 mpg on my run to work also depending on red or green lights, and its a mixture of driving just like yours (mines 15 miles about 30 mins)
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Did an airport run for family member at 5 am yesterday at -2 degree
About 10 miles each way and mixed driving with some traffic lights and Queuing at Airport end.
the outbound run was 25.8 MPG and the combined run home totaled 30.2 MPG
To be honest its hard for me to tell how much the weather is effecting as only had the car since late October at 2700 miles (900 miles a month)
My average figure over all driving in that time and maybe 65% local is 24.9 MPG - expect a few 100 mile each way journeys through next year and particularly in summer as visit daughters so given understand the car now confident that figure will climb into 30's
My high was 39 MPG on motorway of which think could push over 40 if tried as that 39 MPG was achieved without any eye on economy.
My low is 17 MPG over an extended fun distance
The R is not bought for economy but if you stretch its legs a reasonable amount of the time you will achieve plus 30 to mid 30 MPG and for a car of this performance that's pretty decent
However if you stay local expect mid 20s and no higher as an average the average mileage only starts climbing when you are rolling along at constant speeds.
My GTD was giving me 37 MPG at times where was predominately local and 55 MPG on long runs.
No regrets getting the R though its a amazing car and aside from commenting on these forums on fuel as we share our experiences for others do not really give the fuel much of a thought as its just a little more each month from GTD (as would expect) and am just enjoying the experience of the best car personally driven.
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Forgot to comment on Diesel cars as think you a spot on, what with the London air quality warning yesterday there is a scapegoat going to be sacrificed and that is ever increasingly going to be the Diesel engine.
Think the current Diesel engines may miss first wave but 3 years from now? a real clampdown, not just on C02 but Nitrous Oxide also.
Of course technology moves at a pace and maybe new tech will clean up diesels to new levels but think more likely petrol tech reduces emissions to new lows and hybrids replace the diesel as most economical drive as well as being cleanest on road.
This weighed into my decision to get an R now as even though emissions are 159 and comparable with some standard Vauxhall you can see anything over 90-100 being hammered in future years and there was a now or never feeling for me in a lot of areas including this.
Going to be interesting to see how plays out.
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Hi.
Doncaster to Dumfries 220 miles avg 39.9 mpg. It just would'nt push over. GTI PP 6500 miles on the clock.
Home to work. 7.5miles avg from cold 32
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19 miles each way to work, some stop / start traffic, 50/50 urban / dual carriage way, according to the computer see regular 37 - 40 mpg's to work and back depending upon how heavy traffic is or how much I put my foot down. On longer trips - did Keswick last week (75 mile trip each way) - low 40's mpg in winter. In summer add a few mpg extra.
Manual, non PP
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Obviously proves that Carbon Grey is the best colour and the most efficient :whistle:
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Obviously proves that Carbon Grey is the best colour and the most efficient :whistle:
haha :smiley:
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Obviously proves that Carbon Grey is the best colour and the most efficient :whistle:
Ignoring the colour quote as obviously red is best in every way :whistle:
In the spirit of assisting a fellow forumite, I undertook an unnecessary detour on my way to Tesco today (other supermarkets are available though not round here :rolleyes:). Started from cold, no ice scraping required just a wipe over to remove that that had already defrosted. 2C on leaving, 6C on arrival at destination. Didn't need the rear screen demister but put it on for a while anyway. 15 miles, some stop/start, mostly 40 mph roads and a brief peak at 80. No motorways. Average was exactly 35mpg. Had it not been for some traffic in the last half a mile then 36-37 would likely been the result. Real bonus though was that finally they had my undyed kippers back in stock :smiley:
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Obviously proves that Carbon Grey is the best colour and the most efficient :whistle:
Could be true but everyone knows Red is the fastest.. :grin:
9 mile journey to work: 30-40mph zones start-stop at lights then quick 3 mile blast on motorway then another 40-30 zone + lights, 15-18 mins, get around 37-39 mpg in my GTD. A/C is never switched off, auto 22degC.
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So it would seem from this admittedly very small poll, that a GTD from a cold start is typically getting high thirties / low fourties, and a GTI low to mid thirties. Not a lot in it is there. Just goes to show you what we all knew, that the diesel advantage only really comes to fore when a) the car is completely warmed up (mine can achieve easily 45mpg under the same conditions when warmed first) and b) or when doing lots of motorway / a-road cruising.
Oh and hats off to Watts for going above and beyond for this little test (even if he did get his kippers :grin:)
I certainly think the days of diesels are numbered. My wife's Polo Blue GT with 150ps and the innovative cylinder deactivation tech matches mine in the urban cycle and is only 4-5 mpg down on mine on a good run.
I can imagine the days of a car with GTI performance, with similar cylinder deactivation tech along with some sort of light weight hybrid technology aren't far away and we'll then probably be able to have our cake and eat it - 150+mph, sub 6.5 sec 0-62 and 50-60mpg seems doable in the next few years ?
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11 mile commute of town for 2 miles then 50/60 most of the way then the last 2 miles through a village and onto an industrial estate. My Clubsport has only just done 900 miles and it gets about 32/33 mpg on that run from a cold frosty start.
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I've always kept an eye on the MPG readouts but generally go more by the miles per tank as it's easier over the longer term.
Bearing in mind my driving has hardly changed in years with much the same routes until fairly recently when my likely mileage was going to quadruple or more with a change of job role which I've so far neatly ducked and have stayed office based (and seen my actual mileage go down to such a degree I really barely even need a car of my own).
Going by my old and fairly steady averages which didn't change much for years my mk7 GTI PP did between 320 worst and 370 best for a tankful and my R did 260 worst and 320 best. Bear in mind the R has, I think, a bigger tank and runs on dearer fuel.
No big deal for me doing sub 5k PA but painful if you were doing above average miles I'd think.
That's not driving like Lewis Hamilton either, my commute is around 5 miles with little traffic in general all in 30mph limits, 6 roundabouts I think and 11 sets of traffic lights. Aside from that the bulk of the mileage will be once a year to an airport and a couple times a year longer distance on a 'touring' type holiday visiting family. Weekly standard mileage will have been generally one trip of around 20 miles in mostly 40mph semi rural roads that would bump the fuel consumption up to a reasonable figure and a weekly blast in the early hours on some very winding and hilly dual carriageway, again with speeds kept in check thanks to the proliferation of nocturnal wildlife that likes to wander across the road in front of you. The fox and badger near misses are scary enough but the deer are much worse and the gypsy horse that had wandered into the road in the pitch black plus added atmosphehric mist one night really turned my hair instantly grey. If it hadn't been for me really keeping my speed down due to the mist i'd possibly be sat on a cloud now playing a harp.
I can't comment on a GTD but the family hack Cooper D has a 35 litre tank and seems to do around 350 miles to a tank so it's reasonably easy to work that one out. That one does 90% town driving in reasonably heavy traffic too. Weather conditions don't seem to affect it massively.
All cars were run with air-con left on to preserve the seals in the system as ordered by the instruction manual.
All manual transmissions.
And for reference going back even further which had an even shorter commute as I used to live 2 miles from work:
Golf mk6 GTIs x2 did between 290 and 350 miles to a tank worst to best. Touring mileage with added remap improved the mpg significantly due to the extra torque and lower revs needed to make progress.
mk5 GTI was broadly similar to the mk7 R funnily enough.
Oh, and I've never eaten a kipper. Am I missing much?
I don't really do seafood, I think it stems from when I was a kid I'd always be the one with a bit of bone in my fish. I'd be merrily chomping away then the next second I'd be doing Homer Simpson like gagging noises whilst trying to remove a fragment of fish bone from the back of my mouth. Fair play I guess, you can't blame the fish for trying to get its own back on the person that had it murdered...
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Oh and hats off to Watts for going above and beyond for this little test (even if he did get his kippers :grin:)
More than welcome, any excuse to go for a drive :smiley:
Oh, and I've never eaten a kipper. Am I missing much?
Kippers are lovely and juicy, mmmmmmmmmm. A bit boney but they go down fine. Very tasty, extremely nutritious (apparently the rise in cardio vascular disease was inversely proportional to the drop in kipper consumption) and the smell lingers in the house from lunchtime past when my OH gets home from work which she hates. So, win win :grin:
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My test for my GTD this weekend was the boys road trip to the Alps to watch the Andros Trophy... 1520 miles at an average of 44.66 mpg temperatures below freezing pretty much all the time in France (-16C both nights in the Alps). Car fully loaded.
At UK speed limit average > 50 mpg (more like 52-53) at French limit more like 42-43 (especially when my mate forgets it has 6 gears... "Its so quiet!" he says :rolleyes:
The mpg for the first 10 miles or so at those temperatures in the mountains was mid to high 30s but that was all D roads...
Interestingly, on Sunday morning very reluctant to start... but did so on the third go... I'll ask them to check at the service which is due in the next 800 miles...
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My R is averaging 33mpg (always in Race) and i'm getting about 350 miles to the tank (Momentum 99) right now. On a hot summer's day, the average goes up to 34mpg. Ambient temp differences and whether the engine is hot or cold doesn't have a huge bearing on petrol mpg, and that's down to the way petrol is combusted by the engine.
Petrol is only 8% less calorific than diesel, yet is 30-40% down on mpg like-for-like (cylinder deactivation engines excepted). Petrols are far more wasteful than diesels - the exhaust gases are much hotter on the petrols as they convert less chemical energy into kinetic energy - with the fuel expanding less under combustion.
The petrol combusts almost as well in a cold engine as a warm one - but cold oil will be a little thicker.
It is the middle part of my 20 mile each way commute that is thirstiest. Coming to work I have 3 miles at 30mph (average speed camera controlled road works), another 3 at 60-80mph, 2 miles at 40mph (at which point the oil temp is at 90C even in the middle of winter and i'm up to about 31mpg), then 8 miles on the motorway (mpg drops to 29mpg), and the last 4 miles is maintaining 60mph after a few short bursts, by which time the mpg has crept to 33-35 mpg, depending on whether i've had to overtake a few slow moving lorries hard on my last stretch.
Coming home, i'm up to about 33mpg at my first 4 miles, motorway sees it drop to 29mpg and the last stretch (first stretch coming) is far busier going home , so the mpg is 33mpg if the going is good, but there are far less chances to put your foot down coming home.
One thing I have noticed consistently is that when ambient temps approach zero, my R will struggle to get oil temp above 98C (no matter how long the journey, but tops out at 102C with ambient temps above 10C.
The one thing that amazes me about the R is how well it maintains its momentum on the flat without any gas, i'd have expected the speed to drop quite quickly considering the frictional losses you'd expect with running a 4WD Haldex system vs FWD.
Running warm is critical to good mpg from a GTD, with mpg much worse cold than warmed up, and even when warm, mpg drops 10% in the winter (lack of moisture content in cold winter air significantly affects gas expansion in diesel combustion.
My GTD had a high of 59mpg on a long summer journey, to lows of 17mpg (when a 6 mile journey took 140 mins during flash floods), averaging 44mpg in the winter and 49mpg in the summer for my (then) 12 mile commute.
The R copes with slow moving city traffic much better than the GTD - it is happier doing 15mph in 3rd, 30mph in 5th and 40mph in 6th than the GTD is doing 15 in 2nd, 30 in 4th or 40 in 5th, with no real drop in mpg over 60mph+ driving, same cannot be said for the GTD.
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6 miles to work at -1° this morning doing the usual 30 and 40 speed limit and just about broke 30mpg. Same journey in 4 motion Tiguan before Christmas and was just about getting 33mpg so not much difference for me.
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In my GTi PP the morning commute is 15 miles which takes around 30-40 mins. MPG varies from around 32mpg to 36 mpg. On long distance drives (M-way and 50 miles plus) it generally gets close to 40mpg. Interested to see that R's aren't too much behind. Back in the late 90's I owned a Mk4 GTi 1.8T and mpg on that was around 30-35 mpg so not much advance in economy albeit I now have 80 bhp more.
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In my GTi PP the morning commute is 15 miles which takes around 30-40 mins. MPG varies from around 32mpg to 36 mpg. On long distance drives (M-way and 50 miles plus) it generally gets close to 40mpg. Interested to see that R's aren't too much behind. Back in the late 90's I owned a Mk4 GTi 1.8T and mpg on that was around 30-35 mpg so not much advance in economy albeit I now have 80 bhp more.
The Manual R isn't far behind a DSG GTI in mpg - DSG is 10% thirstier than manual (real life driving - I wonder how the 7 speed stacks up against manual), I bet there's not too much between a DSG GTD and a manual GTI - in the winter at least.
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Obviously proves that Carbon Grey is the best colour and the most efficient :whistle:
Ignoring the colour quote as obviously red is best in every way :whistle:
In the spirit of assisting a fellow forumite, I undertook an unnecessary detour on my way to Tesco today (other supermarkets are available though not round here :rolleyes:). Started from cold, no ice scraping required just a wipe over to remove that that had already defrosted. 2C on leaving, 6C on arrival at destination. Didn't need the rear screen demister but put it on for a while anyway. 15 miles, some stop/start, mostly 40 mph roads and a brief peak at 80. No motorways. Average was exactly 35mpg. Had it not been for some traffic in the last half a mile then 36-37 would likely been the result. Real bonus though was that finally they had my undyed kippers back in stock :smiley:
He might have a point. I covered 360 miles in the loner GTD(red) that I got last week from the dealer and it cost £40 in fuel. I know it is not that scientific but that is what it took to get the fuel gauge to the same place after putting the £40 of diesel in it.
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Good test for mine today with a clear run on all roads.
GTD, DSG with 7,500 miles.
Straight out the garage and on the road with no need to de-ice, -0.5 outside, 2 miles of B road, 13 miles of A road, 15 miles of motorway and finish with 2 miles of B road and parked up, most of journey managed on cruise.
32 miles journey
48 mph average
40 minutes travel
50.1 mpg
These are middle of the road for this journey, seen up to 52 mpg and as low as 46 mpg depending on traffic and my right foot, pretty pleased with this. :smiley:
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I wonder how the 7 speed stacks up against manual
If it is the same as the 7-speed in the new Audi A4, it'll make a difference because 7th is a true overdrive gear. I would say the first six approximate to the Golf GTDs ratios and 7th much longer. My g/f's A4 Avant 190 TDI averaged > 53mpg in France at 130kph, as I said earlier my Golf in similar conditions would struggle to make 45mpg...
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Took the car into town today. All country roads ,freezing temperatures. Seven miles and by time got to town oil temperature showing 40 degrees and fuel averaging out at 32. Water up to 90degrees within two miles. Car had not been used for two days and left outside so quite surprised how quickly it warmed through .
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I have 1 mile of single carriage road, 8 miles dual carriageway and then 2 miles at 30mph. 11 miles all in.
I've always tested my MPG at a point as I come off the dual carriageway.
What I've found makes a big difference is the first stretch of dual carriageway I hit just a mile in to my journey. If I go sedately it really sets the MPG up for the rest of the journey.
I can hit the following coming off the dual carriageway in these wintry conditions.
GTD 51mpg
GTI 37mpg
R 32mpg
A good stretch of it is downhill.
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I wonder how the 7 speed stacks up against manual
If it is the same as the 7-speed in the new Audi A4, it'll make a difference because 7th is a true overdrive gear. I would say the first six approximate to the Golf GTDs ratios and 7th much longer. My g/f's A4 Avant 190 TDI averaged > 53mpg in France at 130kph, as I said earlier my Golf in similar conditions would struggle to make 45mpg...
We discussed the new 7 speed DSG on the facelift thread. It would appear that it is more than just a 7th gear overdrive. The figures for the facelift Golf R show improved performance, improved extra-urban AND urban fuel economy.
However, if you look at the figures for the new GTD, the new DSG is showing much smaller gains compared with the manual.
It will be interesting to see the figures for the GTI performance pack. Especially if the standard GTI is still available with the 6-speed DSG.
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I wonder how the 7 speed stacks up against manual
If it is the same as the 7-speed in the new Audi A4, it'll make a difference because 7th is a true overdrive gear. I would say the first six approximate to the Golf GTDs ratios and 7th much longer. My g/f's A4 Avant 190 TDI averaged > 53mpg in France at 130kph, as I said earlier my Golf in similar conditions would struggle to make 45mpg...
We discussed the new 7 speed DSG on the facelift thread. It would appear that it is more than just a 7th gear overdrive. The figures for the facelift Golf R show improved performance, improved extra-urban AND urban fuel economy.
However, if you look at the figures for the new GTD, the new DSG is showing much smaller gains compared with the manual.
It will be interesting to see the figures for the GTI performance pack. Especially if the standard GTI is still available with the 6-speed DSG.
Wasn't there a graph somewhere that showed speed vs revs in each gear for old DSG vs new 7 speed DSG or Manual vs New DSG? It showed gears 1-6 a bit shorter than they were before, with a really tall (relatively) 7th gear. I doubt the first 6 ratios will approximate the GTD's on a box intended for the GTI or R - they'd be much too tall. There's a big gap between the R and GTD in both manual and DSG like for like - R is happy maintaining 4th with no load doing 20mph on the flat - the GTD would be unhappy doing that at any less than 30.
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13 mile commute to Manchester from south Warrington, mixed roads/speeds.
From cold
CS40 manual 33mpg (taking it pretty easy)
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Wasn't there a graph somewhere that showed speed vs revs in each gear for old DSG vs new 7 speed DSG or Manual vs New DSG? It showed gears 1-6 a bit shorter than they were before, with a really tall (relatively) 7th gear.
... page 40 of the facelift thread - new S3 7-speed Stronic vs manual...
If it's like the S3 7 Speed then the 7th is really just an overdrive with very slightly shorter gearing from 1-6.
However with 1st and reverse now on different clutches it makes slow speed manoeuvring quicker.
Here is a graph I did showing the different ratios between the 7 speed s-tronic and the manual in the S3
(http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/attachments/graph-jpg.109959/)
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In this weather 0ish, from a garage no defrosting 5 mile journey, speeds of 40,30,50,70,50,30. 22-27mpg. No ac, heater on 20, heated seat on for a couple of mins until it's warm. When it's warmer 28-32mpg