GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: vipergts on 10 January 2017, 08:42
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Apologies if I've already posted this on here.
Cage now bolted in with no holes drilled. Harnesses too and ready for Snetterton on 13th Feb
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg59/viperlee63/83C21248-2220-48AC-8745-6AD051BC8AD7_zpsy7jvzmvn.jpg) (http://s245.photobucket.com/user/viperlee63/media/83C21248-2220-48AC-8745-6AD051BC8AD7_zpsy7jvzmvn.jpg.html)
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg59/viperlee63/356F212C-4035-4521-82E7-6F6C7B7060C5_zps5wcxl8oz.jpg) (http://s245.photobucket.com/user/viperlee63/media/356F212C-4035-4521-82E7-6F6C7B7060C5_zps5wcxl8oz.jpg.html)
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg59/viperlee63/DEAD3741-1514-4F52-B288-955FAD61C00F_zpsufg9srme.jpg) (http://s245.photobucket.com/user/viperlee63/media/DEAD3741-1514-4F52-B288-955FAD61C00F_zpsufg9srme.jpg.html)
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Looking good!
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That looks very nice, I bet you are really pleased with the results. Good to see one getting properly used.
All we need now is a pic on track when the weather gets better. :wink:
Congrats
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Looks great
Had my black one come today,straight down to VW put a parcel shelf in the back to give me a bit of privacy for when things are in the back,such as digital pump,tyre foam ,tow rope,etc
They had never heard of clubsport s,there was a gasp when the guy brought the parcel shelf to see if it fitted and noticed no seats.
1 parcel shelf £122.61 . Also one large black towel cover/wrap items to stop moving around in back.
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I'll be at Snetterton on 13/02 , looking forward to seeing it in the flesh. :smiley:
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Before I start, I'll let you know that I'm no expert, however...
Having seen scare stories about cars that have had harnesses fitted through the slots in the standard seats and the angle the upper harness is anchored in the back, I can't help but notice (after a quick google) that you may be putting yourself at risk. I'll just post a couple of links about the lad in a Mk1 focus RS that broke his back due to poor harness installation on a seat not designed for them.
http://passionford.com/forum/general-car-related-discussion/489421-mk1-frs-sparco-seat-alert.html (http://passionford.com/forum/general-car-related-discussion/489421-mk1-frs-sparco-seat-alert.html)
http://www.mk1focusrsoc.com/forum/main-forum/mk1-focus-rs/15133-harnesses-fitted-to-focus-rs-seats (http://www.mk1focusrsoc.com/forum/main-forum/mk1-focus-rs/15133-harnesses-fitted-to-focus-rs-seats)
I'm not saying you're wrong in the way you've fitted them but it might be worth checking prior to being used in anger.
That said, I like the look of the cage etc.
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http://www.jamessimpson.co.uk/correct-harness-fitting/ (http://www.jamessimpson.co.uk/correct-harness-fitting/)
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Before I start, I'll let you know that I'm no expert, however...
Having seen scare stories about cars that have had harnesses fitted through the slots in the standard seats and the angle the upper harness is anchored in the back, I can't help but notice (after a quick google) that you may be putting yourself at risk. I'll just post a couple of links about the lad in a Mk1 focus RS that broke his back due to poor harness installation on a seat not designed for them.
http://passionford.com/forum/general-car-related-discussion/489421-mk1-frs-sparco-seat-alert.html (http://passionford.com/forum/general-car-related-discussion/489421-mk1-frs-sparco-seat-alert.html)
http://www.mk1focusrsoc.com/forum/main-forum/mk1-focus-rs/15133-harnesses-fitted-to-focus-rs-seats (http://www.mk1focusrsoc.com/forum/main-forum/mk1-focus-rs/15133-harnesses-fitted-to-focus-rs-seats)
I'm not saying you're wrong in the way you've fitted them but it might be worth checking prior to being used in anger.
That said, I like the look of the cage etc.
Funnily enough I asked the cage manufacturer for a specific harness bar mounted at shoulder height and they reckoned there's no need which I must admit surprised me as I always thought where I have them was wrong
Also noticed that in the Ring record car they fitted the harness in the same way so i assumed wrongly that it must be ok.
All this coupled with the fact that for me the seat harness holes are a bit low.
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I'll be at Snetterton on 13/02 , looking forward to seeing it in the flesh. :smiley:
Good stuff, see you there
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Before I start, I'll let you know that I'm no expert, however...
Having seen scare stories about cars that have had harnesses fitted through the slots in the standard seats and the angle the upper harness is anchored in the back, I can't help but notice (after a quick google) that you may be putting yourself at risk. I'll just post a couple of links about the lad in a Mk1 focus RS that broke his back due to poor harness installation on a seat not designed for them.
http://passionford.com/forum/general-car-related-discussion/489421-mk1-frs-sparco-seat-alert.html (http://passionford.com/forum/general-car-related-discussion/489421-mk1-frs-sparco-seat-alert.html)
http://www.mk1focusrsoc.com/forum/main-forum/mk1-focus-rs/15133-harnesses-fitted-to-focus-rs-seats (http://www.mk1focusrsoc.com/forum/main-forum/mk1-focus-rs/15133-harnesses-fitted-to-focus-rs-seats)
I'm not saying you're wrong in the way you've fitted them but it might be worth checking prior to being used in anger.
That said, I like the look of the cage etc.
All this coupled with the fact that for me the seat harness holes are a bit low.
Good Spot Gnasher, didn't notice it when I looked at the pics, but have also seen a few threads over the years about this sort of thing.
@ Viper If the harness holes are too low and the belts really do sit on your shoulders from that angle, won't you potentially suffer compression in the hopefully unlikely event of a crash? Perhaps LRW can help with this as I guess he must have some regulations for racing?
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Viper, The cage looks great, it certainly adds something to the ethos of the car.
I was surprised at the design and lack of harness bar.
I always understood you need a short reach on the harness to avoid "stretch" and to be as close to horizontal to the harness bar.
As you have checked it out and it appears to be the same as VW used at the Ring, then you can't say fairer than that!
Who are we to judge, I assume all aftermarket parts sold out of Germany have full TUV approval, which is more than stringent.
Any pics from the outside, showing the intent of the cage. :)
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I think it is a lot to do with whether the seat is up to the job and if the harness holes are functional
Are the seats made by VW or does someone know how to find out?
I looked at pics of the Renault R26r which came from the factory with a cage and harnesses though the seats were proper buckets so this is the issue confirmed i'd say (see pic)
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg59/viperlee63/0B1B4C20-ED38-4B1D-918B-20E9B917307E_zpsxrym8isp.png) (http://s245.photobucket.com/user/viperlee63/media/0B1B4C20-ED38-4B1D-918B-20E9B917307E_zpsxrym8isp.png.html)
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Notice how renault didn't even use the horizontal bar that lends itself to being a harness bar
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Viper, The cage looks great, it certainly adds something to the ethos of the car.
I was surprised at the design and lack of harness bar.
Any pics from the outside, showing the intent of the cage. :)
Paul, I'll try again to get pics but when I've tried there's too much reflection off the dark glass
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In rallying they tend to attach the shoulder straps low down and usually to the rear of the cage. The hole idea behind having them low down is to keep you pinned down into the seat during a roll.
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The biggest issue I can see is that all the TUV approval and crash tests would have been done with standard seatbelts, not harnesses.
From what I can gather, the problems occour when you add non standard items (IE a harness) to a seat that we are unsure of actually being designed (despite the slots in the seat) to use. I also can't see any way that VW would have tested the seats with harnesses (due to the multitude of variables involved when aftermarket parts are fitted). I just think it's not worth the risk to take that chance of using harnesses on standard seats without a good amount of research/checking.
Sorry for appearing to pee on the OPs bonfire but I'd rather mention it than not and then something happen.
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@ Viper If the harness holes are too low and the belts really do sit on your shoulders from that angle, won't you potentially suffer compression in the hopefully unlikely event of a crash? Perhaps LRW can help with this as I guess he must have some regulations for racing?
This is from the MSA BlueBook (2015 as it is to hand).
(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w433/LRWMotorsport/7071ea20-b5f5-4613-95fb-cb1c2904fc70_zpsn1ejtqdy.jpg)
(K) 2.1.10
The anchorage points to the rear should be positioned so that the strap from the shoulder is near horizontal as possible. It should not be located on the floor directly behind the drover/co-driver.
My own two pence worth:
I think that the harness are safe mounted to the cage. Its a shame the cargo-net bar thing isn't up to the job as a harness bar. I'm not 100% sure how it is mounted but it looks like it uses the rear seat mounts some how?
I would like to assume that reputable manufacturers (Recaro, Sparco OMP et al) would not cut harness slots in a road based seat for purely aesthetic reasons and would perform some testing with correctly mounted harnesses.
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I think it is a lot to do with whether the seat is up to the job and if the harness holes are functional
Are the seats made by VW or does someone know how to find out?
CS/CSS bucket seats are made by Recaro:
https://www.recaro-automotive.com/en/product-areas/original-equipment/products/vw-golf-vii-clubsport-s/vw-golf-vii-clubsport.html (https://www.recaro-automotive.com/en/product-areas/original-equipment/products/vw-golf-vii-clubsport-s/vw-golf-vii-clubsport.html)
PS. How is backrest adjustment different to backrest tilt-adjustment? To my understanding (and experience) there's only 3 adjustment options: longitudinal, height and back tilt but in Recaro's page it seems like there are four. Just wondering whether I'm missing some hidden adjustment option...
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Tilt adjustment is where the seat goes forward in a 3 door car to allow a passenger to access the back seat.
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It's definitely worth an email to Recaro then, if only for peace of mind.
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Tilt adjustment is where the seat goes forward in a 3 door car to allow a passenger to access the back seat.
Cheers, my English wasn't sufficient for that discrimination I guess :tongue:
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Thanks for your help on this chaps, greatly appreciated as it was slightly niggling me.
If the harnesses were horizontal then the seat wouldn't be an issue.
As LWR states, a decent seat manufacturer ought to be turning out a solid seat but the seats in the RS Focus are Sparco and you can see what happened there.
It's a good idea to email Recaro though I'm almost certain they won't respond but lets see.
Thanks again
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Viper,
Have a look at this: It reads well.
https://www.recaro-automotive.com/en/company/expertise/safety.html
Recaro seats are TUv approved, I have no idea if they will respond to an individual safety concern other than to state they exceed the required standards, which is hard to argue with?
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Viper,
Have a look at this: It reads well.
https://www.recaro-automotive.com/en/company/expertise/safety.html
Recaro seats are TUv approved, I have no idea if they will respond to an individual safety concern other than to state they exceed the required standards, which is hard to argue with?
Recaro are great seats and the only aftermarket i would use, TUV yes, but TUV cert with Harness use? that's another matter and hopefully it can be resolved for Viper and others in the future. I'm sure they are compatible as Recaro wouldn't probably put there name to it, but I wouldn't rely on the fact it has holes that the holes are cert with a harness...
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Yes a good seat for sure. All reads very positive
I've emailed them but I doubt I'll get a reply
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Well Viper, how did it go?
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Well Viper, how did it go?
Superb, surprised me how it held it's own against some big metal. Trounced an A45 AMG and an M2 was struggling and couldn't get away and earlier could find the power to pass down the straight.
Turn in is awesome. Rear end a bit lively in the wet. The car never felt like it was running out of puff
A truly great car
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg59/viperlee63/B7F65D65-5625-4439-9ED5-A92715B4DE6E_zpsfbw9dzih.jpg) (http://s245.photobucket.com/user/viperlee63/media/B7F65D65-5625-4439-9ED5-A92715B4DE6E_zpsfbw9dzih.jpg.html)
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg59/viperlee63/2F8C65F5-4832-46F0-A5AF-51D278302E2A_zpsgfqndpvq.jpg) (http://s245.photobucket.com/user/viperlee63/media/2F8C65F5-4832-46F0-A5AF-51D278302E2A_zpsgfqndpvq.jpg.html)
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg59/viperlee63/CA338041-F393-49B9-AF5E-3C0DF1C1AE76_zpsibkr2xvi.jpeg) (http://s245.photobucket.com/user/viperlee63/media/CA338041-F393-49B9-AF5E-3C0DF1C1AE76_zpsibkr2xvi.jpeg.html)
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Awesome Viper, great to hear it does the business on a proper track too.
What's next?
Did you sort out the harnesses vs seats question?
Well Viper, how did it go?
Superb, surprised me how it held it's own against some big metal. Trounced an A45 AMG and an M2 was struggling and couldn't get away and earlier could find the power to pass down the straight.
Turn in is awesome. Rear end a bit lively in the wet. The car never felt like it was running out of puff
A truly great car
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg59/viperlee63/B7F65D65-5625-4439-9ED5-A92715B4DE6E_zpsfbw9dzih.jpg) (http://s245.photobucket.com/user/viperlee63/media/B7F65D65-5625-4439-9ED5-A92715B4DE6E_zpsfbw9dzih.jpg.html)
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg59/viperlee63/2F8C65F5-4832-46F0-A5AF-51D278302E2A_zpsgfqndpvq.jpg) (http://s245.photobucket.com/user/viperlee63/media/2F8C65F5-4832-46F0-A5AF-51D278302E2A_zpsgfqndpvq.jpg.html)
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg59/viperlee63/CA338041-F393-49B9-AF5E-3C0DF1C1AE76_zpsibkr2xvi.jpeg) (http://s245.photobucket.com/user/viperlee63/media/CA338041-F393-49B9-AF5E-3C0DF1C1AE76_zpsibkr2xvi.jpeg.html)
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Recaro won't tell me much only that they make the best seats in the business. I'm reconning that if a Recaro seat has harness holes then it's up to the job.