GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: Jackie Treehorn on 14 December 2016, 13:24
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VW Settlement gets interesting.
http://bgr.com/2016/12/13/vw-settlement-cars-update/
http://jalopnik.com/disgruntled-diesel-vw-owners-are-stripping-their-cars-b-1790053005
Lets hope this is the last throws of the VW diesels and diesels in general, good car the GTD and I like them a lot, but lets move on from diesel engine passenger cars :wink:
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Haha, cheeky. Or incredibly foolish :laugh:
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Lets hope this is the last throws of the VW diesels and diesels in general, good car the GTD and I like them a lot, but lets move on from diesel engine passenger cars :wink:
Dear oh dear!
As an owner of a gas guzzling R and also a Diesel car, aside from the godawful noise Diesels make at tickover I can't see why people hate modern Diesels.
The alternatives seem to be small capacity petrol engines that need to be absolutely thrashed to get them to provide decent performance due to them having to be leaned off in the mid-range to meet emissions targets.
Fine if you live three miles from a race circuit.
So if you've got to do silly revs to keep up with traffic flow in a modern petrol engine then it's not exactly going to be economical or stop babies from developing lung diseases.
Diesels however provide a nice kick up the arse at low revs to keep up with traffic flow and generally can be driven at low revs most of the time whilst still providing decent performance. Unless doing a standing start from zero to silly speeds I find GTD's are a match for my R in most situations in real world driving and are probably doing 15-20mpg better which means less time freezing to death and staring into space on a cold garage forecourt.
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"So if you've got to do silly revs to keep up with traffic flow in a modern petrol engine"
I understand you point but this is possibly over stating the petrol problem, and revs are part of the character of a petrol car in some ways due to power band.
Diesels are impressive for all the reasons you mention, but really not that necessary in general road cars. Commercial vehicles no problem (except buses). However the savings appear to be diminishing with ever greater headline torque and BHP chasing figures from manufacturers, so we end up with cars trying to perform like petrol but without the great level of benefits (only 10mpg more approx). This coupled with many owners cars in active regen in towns and cities as the car is not really doing what it should (hot long runs) and you start to think, Why do we have these cars?
Both Renault and VW seem to be doing the same and 5 cities in Europe also are heading to the "Why" question?
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Why do we have these cars?
I have diesel cars as I live in redneck countryside where everyone has always had diesels. Petrol is for strimmers and chainsaws. There is a ready supply of cherry, so they are far better than 10mpg in money terms to run. We avoid towns, so there are no stop start journeys and the DPFs get a good workout.
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I've got a 1.6 diesel touran for the family runabout and it's going to need new injectors and an ECU when it eventually gets recalled, had plenty of letters about over the past 18 months but still haven't been told a date.
I'd be absolutely delighted if I was able to choose a cash alternative like owners in the USA, jammy gits!
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depends on how much they were offering i guess :sad:
But it seems diesels are on the thinnest of thin ice with the rhetoric from governments and manufacturers willingness for further diesel investment reducing, this slow trickle down of negative info to the general public will have an impact in a few years and not in a good way for owners, but we have probably got 5-10 years before that happens. Apart from the US which VW have properly f'd up and removed any chance of a diesel boom. But even since 2011 diesel sales in Europe have been falling and 2016 they dropped below 50% for the first time in a decade.
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What is impacting on diesels now is NOx emission, largely ignored by Europe until dieselgate in the USA highlighted the problem as being more immediate than CO2, which had been the controlling parameter over here. Fact is, NOx doesn't just make the earth a bit warmer, in the wrong circumstances it kills people. It is also harder to reduce NOx emission. This has led to 4 capital cities, across the world, deciding to ban diesel cars by 2025, with London possibly making this 5. I enjoyed my 2 performance diesel Golfs, but it looks like times up for the dark side!
http://www.itv.com/news/2016-12-09/smog-hit-paris-pledges-to-be-diesel-free-within-a-decade/ (http://www.itv.com/news/2016-12-09/smog-hit-paris-pledges-to-be-diesel-free-within-a-decade/)
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Try cycling behind one going up a hill :sick: Black lungs. Days are numbered.
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We have diesel cars because the government told us we should buy them to help the environment. They also gave us tax breaks both on road tax and on company car tax to drive them.
Not the first time they have done a u turn on this sort of thing. I guess the next thing they'll be telling us is that hybrid cars emit a lot more co2 than they claim in the test and that they don't do 100mpg and we will have another scandal.
Ultimately until they can independently test these cars properly then any clean air laws they dream up are a waste of time.
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We have diesel cars because the government told us we should buy them to help the environment. They also gave us tax breaks both on road tax and on company car tax to drive them.
Not the first time they have done a u turn on this sort of thing. I guess the next thing they'll be telling us is that hybrid cars emit a lot more co2 than they claim in the test and that they don't do 100mpg and we will have another scandal.
Ultimately until they can independently test these cars properly then any clean air laws they dream up are a waste of time.
I don't mind breathing in CO2. I do it on a daily basis. I do mind breathing NOx and atmospheric carcinogens that stick to the soot. The tax situation was and sadly still is focussed solely on reducing CO2 and meeting targets and whilst these are important, surely also is human health.
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I guess the next thing they'll be telling us is that hybrid cars emit a lot more co2 than they claim in the test and that they don't do 100mpg
I would imagine that most people know that is the case already.
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On a soot perspective, modern directly injected petrols are dirtier than DPF equipped diesels, and the soot is finer so stays in the air longer and gets deeper into the lungs if inhaled. My GTD's tail pipes were immaculately clean, my R's are black with soot. It may not be long until we see DPFs on petrol cars too. NOx is a big problem in cities where it gets to accumulate, but yhat can be solved with adblue.
All cars are dirty - the batteries of electric cars are manufactured via very unenvironmental processes and most of the electricity is generated with fossil fuelled power stations. If they got pre-DPF doesels off the road with a scrappage scheme, that would be a big help.
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[quote I have diesel cars as I live in redneck countryside where everyone has always had diesels. Petrol is for strimmers and chainsaws.
There is a ready supply of cherry, so they are far better than 10mpg in money terms to run. We avoid towns, so there are no stop start journeys and the DPFs get a good workout.
[/quote]
Mmmmm, was that just a 'look at me' comment or just something you slipped in by mistake?
Having lived and worked in the countryside most of my life I know exactly what your referring to, and so no doubt will HMRC.
Your use of "We" infers more than just you are involved.
Consider my experience.
An employee of mine was stopped at an HMRC dip check and found to have been topping up his landy from the farm tank, it cost him his job and a heavy fine, I only escaped the courts because he had cut his own duplicate key and so was stealing.
Perhaps an edit might be a good move?
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No need to edit anything. You picked up on the word "We". In my comment, that is used in the sentence about not going to town.
You make a couple of references to HMRC. You'll be suggesting that all self employed people declare every penny of their income next.
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No need to edit anything. You picked up on the word "We". In my comment, that is used in the sentence about not going to town.
You make a couple of references to HMRC. You'll be suggesting that all self employed people declare every penny of their income next.
I always declair all my pennys... Makes me feel im paying my way haha.
On this diesel thing... Some people dpf delete there cars so the nox is unchanged. How can they combat against that. The mot test for diesel emissions will have to change to abit more than what it is now.
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No need to edit anything. You picked up on the word "We". In my comment, that is used in the sentence about not going to town.
You make a couple of references to HMRC. You'll be suggesting that all self employed people declare every penny of their income next.
I always declair all my pennys... Makes me feel im paying my way haha.
On this diesel thing... Some people dpf delete there cars so the nox is unchanged. How can they combat against that. The mot test for diesel emissions will have to change to abit more than what it is now.
Not sure on the details but apparently the MOT test is changing for DPF equipped cars.
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It's been mentioned before that it a car is supposed to have a dpf and it is then deleted then it will fail it's mot and quite right too.
Petrols will also be getting dpfs in the near future and this was mentioned by Audi in June/July this year.
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Never really understood the diesel car thing, down to government tax breaks on company cars I suppose.
Taxis, trucks, tanks and tractors are a different case though.
Red diesel and tax breaks do not help the diseasal situation.
:sick: :sick:
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same here, and I have had 3
3 cylinder TDI, 2.0 TDI, 123D twin turbo. All ok but like all diesel engines not really memorable, work colleague has a 435 which does 0-60 in silly 5sec and its still a dull forgettable engine, covers ground quickly but it just doesn't excite for the speed compared to an M4 for example. The cleaner modern diesels collect particles i guess, but dump them periodically into the atmosphere by regen, could we call it a cheat device?
The data Published by the Department for Energy with kings college and Leeds uni, also with World Health Org and pretty much all other credible health authority seem to suggest diesels are in the firing line. Even India have banned some diesels from Cities and raise diesel car tax, But I guess they could all be wrong...
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Just got this feeling that i'm loving my GTD the now! :cry:
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Just got this feeling that i'm loving my GTD for now! :cry:
You def win the best looking golf mk7 award inside and out, always like the GTD when I see them on the road...
Anyway it's good to see our American VW friends aren't taking it lying down
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All ok but like all diesel engines not really memorable, work colleague has a 435 which does 0-60 in silly 5sec and its still a dull forgettable engine, covers ground quickly but it just doesn't excite for the speed compared to an M4 for example.
I would say that the vast majority of drivers don't feel it necessary to get excited on mundane journeys from A to B, which is why they/we drive diesels. They just get the job done efficiently with little fuss. I'm perfectly satisfied with the way my diesel engined cars get me around, but if I do fancy driving for pleasure now and again, I'll take the Mk2. It's nowhere near as fast as it's modern equivalent, but the way you feel completely connected to it means it doesn't have to be to deliver fun.
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All cars are transport is dirty -
FTFY
For urban centers, lets hope ITER https://www.iter.org/proj/inafewlines (https://www.iter.org/proj/inafewlines) and autonomous, modular transport http://www.next-future-mobility.com/ (http://www.next-future-mobility.com/)gives us cleaner, more efficient transport.
https://www.ted.com/talks/wanis_kabbaj_what_a_driverless_world_could_look_like (https://www.ted.com/talks/wanis_kabbaj_what_a_driverless_world_could_look_like)
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Yes, lets ban oil burners from cities... but the taxis, the lorries, the buses that the city can't do without and are too expensive to replace those Euro4 engines? Well, we'll leave those.
The "ban" is a PR exercise. The "banned" vehicles won't make any difference.
They showed a reporter in London't Oxford Street on the news the other day, talking about how it was the most polluted street anywhere in the UK. That's the same street that normal cars can't drive down, its just buses, taxis and delivery lorries...
If they truly wanted to do something about pollution from road vehicles, they could, but they won't because everyone would complain.
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Yes, lets ban oil burners from cities... but the taxis, the lorries, the buses that the city can't do without and are too expensive to replace those Euro4 engines? Well, we'll leave those.
The "ban" is a PR exercise. The "banned" vehicles won't make any difference.
They showed a reporter in London't Oxford Street on the news the other day, talking about how it was the most polluted street anywhere in the UK. That's the same street that normal cars can't drive down, its just buses, taxis and delivery lorries...
If they truly wanted to do something about pollution from road vehicles, they could, but they won't because everyone would complain.
Exactly
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Yes, lets ban oil burners from cities... but the taxis, the lorries, the buses that the city can't do without and are too expensive to replace those Euro4 engines? Well, we'll leave those.
The "ban" is a PR exercise. The "banned" vehicles won't make any difference.
They showed a reporter in London't Oxford Street on the news the other day, talking about how it was the most polluted street anywhere in the UK. That's the same street that normal cars can't drive down, its just buses, taxis and delivery lorries...
If they truly wanted to do something about pollution from road vehicles, they could, but they won't because everyone would complain.
Exactly
What these guys said :cool: