GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: andrewparker on 28 October 2016, 16:23
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Anyone read it today? Absolutely astounding result for the Clubsport S :laugh:
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Probably best to put a <spoiler alert> in your title....??
How was it placed?
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Probably best to put a <spoiler alert> in your title....??
How was it placed?
Done.
It was placed 2nd. Full run down as follows:
12 BMW M2
11 C63 S Coupe
10 FRS
9 Aston GT8
8 Huracán LP580-2
=6 Giulia, M4 GTS
=4 R8 V10 Plus, NSX
3 570S
2 Clubsport S
1 911 R
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I see there's an R at number 1. :laugh:
The Clubsport S though very well done great to see just a golf mixing it with the big boys.
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Thanks, no surprise on first place, the latest 2wd, 500bhp 911 with added manual gear change!
Voting and overall placement in the running order is subjective, what I do find interesting is how far away the Focus RS & M2 were, not what I would have expected.
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Wow - Great News ... This is exactly what i predicted two months ago when everyone was saying i was crazy ... :whistle:
So thats a Podium finish in the Top Gear Awards and second place behind the legendary $1'000'000 911R in Evo ECOTY for the CS-S ... :smug:
Anyone who said the CS-S is just a tweaked Gti needs to think again ... This is legendary stuff for the VW brand and the humble Golf Gti ...
I am so pleased for VW ... they took a risk and that risk has payed off big time ... they are now mixing it with the big boys :evil:
This is a landmark car for VW and an Icon even before one has landed this side of the channel and only 400 world wide build - a sure fire modern Classic :grin:
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No it's still a tweaked Gti! Very good tweaked but none the less still a gti.
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Bit of a PITA really, I won't want to use it now. Might have to wrap it up. :cry:
Only Joking
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No it's still a tweaked Gti! Very good tweaked but none the less still a gti.
Yes, sir ... A very well tweaked Gti :kiss: Great for the VW brand and for all GTi owners ... :laugh:
Evo ECOTY is always a great benchmark as it is more about the overall Car on British B roads than outright speed or price! I was more than happy with their choice last year ... :whistle:
So it looks like the lucky owners awaiting delivery have a cracker of a car to look forward too :whistle:
I can't wait to read the review ... How did the OP know the Result ...??
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I can't wait to read the review ... How did the OP know the Result ...??
My copy dropped through the door on Friday. Imagine it will be in the shops next week.
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BMW M2 .... Finished dead Last - Wow ... Can't wait to read their critique. I found the brakes very "grabby" and impossible to modulate, plus the seating position a little too high and seats not contoured enough but a very enjoyable and very fast car to drive! Amazing to think the £15k cheaper CS-S left it for dead in the overall standings?! Must be an absolute cracker of a car to finish above such exalted company .. :whistle:
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IMHO the result shows how the modern M cars are lacking pure driver's experience that they used to offer.
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IMHO the result shows how the modern M cars are lacking pure driver's experience that they used to offer.
Yep, i guess its tough to argue against that point with the legendary M4 GTS and M2 getting low marks compared to the lowly VW ... :undecided:
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IMHO the result shows how the modern M cars are lacking pure driver's experience that they used to offer.
Yep, i guess its tough to argue against that point with the legendary M4 GTS and M2 getting low marks compared to the lowly VW ... :undecided:
I think they are great cars at what they do, but the M2 is very small in comparison and the M4 is getting on for twice the price. Running costs for M series cars are not small either so bang for buck takes a massive hit. In truth I don't think they are really in the same marketplace as the Golf.
Don't really understand why the M2 didn't do better though, everything I've seen on it suggests the press loves it. Perhaps that £45k price tag is just too much and a bit too close to a Cayman S or a TTRS.
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IMHO the result shows how the modern M cars are lacking pure driver's experience that they used to offer.
Yep, i guess its tough to argue against that point with the legendary M4 GTS and M2 getting low marks compared to the lowly VW ... :undecided:
I think they are great cars at what they do, but the M2 is very small in comparison and the M4 is getting on for twice the price. Running costs for M series cars are not small either so bang for buck takes a massive hit. In truth I don't think they are really in the same marketplace as the Golf.
Don't really understand why the M2 didn't do better though, everything I've seen on it suggests the press loves it. Perhaps that £45k price tag is just too much and a bit too close to a Cayman S or a TTRS.
Maybe BMW didn't pay as much in advertisment, incentives and freebies as the VW group....
Or maybe they didn't send them a press spec car...
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Maybe BMW didn't pay as much in advertisment, incentives and freebies as the VW group....
Or maybe they didn't send them a press spec car...
In one.
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Bit skeptical if you ask me. The last thing VW are doing at the moment is keeping an enthusiasts magazine happy with bribes.
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IMHO the result shows how the modern M cars are lacking pure driver's experience that they used to offer.
Yep, i guess its tough to argue against that point with the legendary M4 GTS and M2 getting low marks compared to the lowly VW ... :undecided:
Don't really understand why the M2 didn't do better though, everything I've seen on it suggests the press loves it. Perhaps that £45k price tag is just too much and a bit too close to a Cayman S or a TTRS.
Yes, I don't understand how the motoring press can rave about the M2 with such delight and then with one foul swoop knock it down....Very strange
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IMHO the result shows how the modern M cars are lacking pure driver's experience that they used to offer.
Yep, i guess its tough to argue against that point with the legendary M4 GTS and M2 getting low marks compared to the lowly VW ... :undecided:
Don't really understand why the M2 didn't do better though, everything I've seen on it suggests the press loves it. Perhaps that £45k price tag is just too much and a bit too close to a Cayman S or a TTRS.
Yes, I don't understand how the motoring press can rave about the M2 with such delight and then with one foul swoop knock it down....Very strange
It would be unfair to say they knocked it down. It came last in a group of 12 extremely good cars. That's hardly a bad thing. As the review said, there are no bad cars that make it through to the Car of the Year test.
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To infer that in some way the vote is rigged is categorically wrong IMO ... The simple fact that the Golf Gti came second is proof enough to anyone that as journalists they are far from biased - think how McLaren must feel for the last two years if that is the case! EVO is in my opinion a bastion of car enthusiasts, they don't care about cost or pedigree - Last year the Gt4 beat the venerable GT3 RS - this year a humble VW has beaten Lambo & Mclaren and only the most pure 911 since the original RS has managed to pip the £34k Golf .... Lets all celebrate, good old fashion journalism :shocked:
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All car reviews are subjective and what pleases someone will annoy someone else. If anyone actually buys a car after reading any review from a magazine or thinks that just because a mag says this that and the other then they are either stupid, deluded or an idiot. All magazines are on shelves for is to sell copies to make money. :angry: :whistle:
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I think some are reading way to much into an article. A few journo's on a jolly with some nice cars and pics, thats pretty much it. To start referencing it as a clear indication of anything is pointless. They pick some top end cars and then put some lower cars to spice up a list and make an article.
Put it this way, you put all the keys in a bowl and most people/journo's wouldn't pick up the keys to a VW as the second choice.
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It also doesn't mean that the Golf is that much better than all the cars below it in the table. It means that the Golf is very good at what it was designed to do in it's niche of the market.
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All car reviews are subjective and what pleases someone will annoy someone else. If anyone actually buys a car after reading any review from a magazine or thinks that just because a mag says this that and the other then they are either stupid, deluded or an idiot. All magazines are on shelves for is to sell copies to make money. :angry: :whistle:
I disagree Mcmaddy ... It is proven that car sales are in many ways dictated by/on Reviews ... as is your dishwasher and Television - Evo's concept and philosophy is to subjectively analyse the quality of Sports cars on the whole and ECOTY is the magazines and in some ways the Industries Uk Bench mark as is Top Gear! In the old days a panning from Clarkson destined some cars to the dustbin of history ... so is their power!
i agree on subjectivity ... but in this instance ECOTY is about Sports cars and the feel a car gives you on a B road - its not a diesel or fitting a family of 4 inside test or which is best to pick up the kids from school Test ...
We should all celebrate, especially CS-S owners as a car that has not even been seen or driven by anybody but journalists in this country is obviously a fantastic car, creating masses of Hype and well worth above the £34k asking price ... and a credit to the Gti Brand - It just goes to show how great an acquisition for VW to buy Porsche as the man behind the CS-S was part of the GT division and obviously knows a thing or two therefore about Sports cars :nerd:
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Dishwasher/TV example is not a good one, if the TV is a Beko £250 and also compared is a 6K Viera, or £20 goodmans speakers compared with 12k Dali speakers. You can't compared such vastly differing items, here in lies the folly of looking at this in anything other than magazine selling terms. Your ref to Clarkson having power? His comments never stopped the Boxster selling in millions or the random family looking for a Toyota at the local dealer did it? There power is way over rated when it comes to influencing people spending there own money...
PS the CS and CSS is to be celebrated, but in context...
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Exactly Jackie :whistle: In this instance the Golf-Beko is being rated alongside the B&O-Mclaren and comes out above ... for me this is the great thing about ECOTY .. Its all about the drive :laugh:
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In this instance the Golf-Beko is being rated alongside the B&O-Mclaren and comes out above ...
Not really. I remember having this discussion with Neil Birkett about the towing abilities of his Mk4 Golf 4 Motion. Back in 2000, the Golf won tow car of the year. According to Neil, beating Range Rovers and Shoguns etc. I pointed out to him that the Golf had simply scored better in it's class for weight than the big 4x4's did in theirs. Ultimately the Golf did very well for what it was, but could never get close to a Range Rover or Shogun when it came to towing big stuff.
The Evo test is no different, it just doesn't have the sub classes. There is no doubt that the Golf is a very accomplished little car for what it is, but being a better drive than those below them in the list? Really? The feature sells magazines and gets people talking, which is what it has succeeded to do.
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I am currently half way through the online article and will report back as such ... :kiss:
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All car reviews are subjective and what pleases someone will annoy someone else. If anyone actually buys a car after reading any review from a magazine or thinks that just because a mag says this that and the other then they are either stupid, deluded or an idiot. All magazines are on shelves for is to sell copies to make money. :angry: :whistle:
Also anyone who believes the car they buy is the exact same as the cars sent for reviews is a fool.
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All car reviews are subjective and what pleases someone will annoy someone else. If anyone actually buys a car after reading any review from a magazine or thinks that just because a mag says this that and the other then they are either stupid, deluded or an idiot. All magazines are on shelves for is to sell copies to make money. :angry: :whistle:
Also anyone who believes the car they buy is the exact same as the cars sent for reviews is a fool.
Bet VW has never sent a performance Golf out on Bridgestones for review. :grin:
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All car reviews are subjective and what pleases someone will annoy someone else. If anyone actually buys a car after reading any review from a magazine or thinks that just because a mag says this that and the other then they are either stupid, deluded or an idiot. All magazines are on shelves for is to sell copies to make money. :angry: :whistle:
Also anyone who believes the car they buy is the exact same as the cars sent for reviews is a fool.
Bet VW has never sent a performance Golf out on Bridgestones for review. :grin:
I know you're joking... but they have. Pretty much every review/long term report of the R was of a car running on Bridgestone tyres.
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I know you're joking... but they have. Pretty much every review/long term report of the R was of a car running on Bridgestone tyres.
I think he is serious. Just shows how good the car is - that it performs so well on mediocre tyres. Most people notice a big improvement when they change the OEM Bridgestones. I'm concerned that the next Golf I order will come on Bridgestones.
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I happened to do a search for anti-tramping and found an old post on this forum. These are monkyhanger's thoughts on Bridgestone tyres...
Fit new tyres - you shouldn't have to drive like you bought an UP!, just because VW fitted sh!te tyres.
:grin:
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Bet VW has never sent a performance Golf out on Bridgestones for review. :grin:
Can we be more specific?
RE050A is a great tyre with Porsche approval. Had them on my R and on my 997 before that, no complaints.
Are you on about the S001 fitted as standard to 18" wheels?
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^Nope, Had 18" S001 on my GTD and it was tramptastic with lots of tyre noise. Then I got my R on 19" wheels (RE050A) and although no initial traction issues due to the haldex, the grip going slowly around roundabouts in very mild winter weather (9C ambient temp, morning dew, not wet) was poor, the ride was poor as the compound is rock hard too. Switched to Michelin PSS after 6k miles and the diffrrence is night and day in all conditions grip. Bridgestones sat in my shed to go back on when I sell the car.
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^Nope, Had 18" S001 on my GTD and it was tramptastic with lots of tyre noise. Then I got my R on 19" wheels (RE050A) and although no initial traction issues due to the haldex, the grip going slowly around roundabouts in very mild winter weather (9C ambient temp, morning dew, not wet) was poor, the ride was poor as the compound is rock hard too. Switched to Michelin PSS after 6k miles and the diffrrence is night and day in all conditions grip. Bridgestones sat in my shed to go back on when I sell the car.
235 35 19 91Y XL prices from Mytyres.com
£184 for PPS vs £140 for RE050A
Not really going for the same market with that price difference and the bean counters at VW will never spend the extra.
Durable tyres could be more important for VW than ultimate grip especially now tyre maintenance is included frequently with finance deals (and if you crash because of low grip tyres, VW will either sell you a new car, or sell you very profitable repair parts, either way they win!).
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Car manufactures pay nowhere near retail price for tyres. A friend who works in R+D at Honda told me that they pay around £20 for a 18" tyre, so there won't be a £40 difference like there is between the Bridgestone and Michelin examples.
Tyre manufactures sell at little over cost to the car manufactures. It's the aftermarket where they make there money.
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Which makes VWs decision to stick S001s on gti's and gtds even worse!
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Can we have 1 thread without bridgestone tyres coming up. :wink: I have never read a forum with this much fuss over 1 damn tyre.
I would much rather talk about how a Mclaren is sh!te compared to a VW Golf CSS :whistle:
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^Nope, Had 18" S001 on my GTD and it was tramptastic with lots of tyre noise. Then I got my R on 19" wheels (RE050A) and although no initial traction issues due to the haldex, the grip going slowly around roundabouts in very mild winter weather (9C ambient temp, morning dew, not wet) was poor, the ride was poor as the compound is rock hard too. Switched to Michelin PSS after 6k miles and the diffrrence is night and day in all conditions grip. Bridgestones sat in my shed to go back on when I sell the car.
235 35 19 91Y XL prices from Mytyres.com
£184 for PPS vs £140 for RE050A
Not really going for the same market with that price difference and the bean counters at VW will never spend the extra.
Durable tyres could be more important for VW than ultimate grip especially now tyre maintenance is included frequently with finance deals (and if you crash because of low grip tyres, VW will either sell you a new car, or sell you very profitable repair parts, either way they win!).
Ford allow you to specify the tyres you want from a limited range on the lowly Transit van - surely VW could do something similar and make a bit of money out of their customers at the same time. I'd rather have paid VW an extra £100 for them to have fitted PSS than have to pay £600 for 4 and have a £500 set of Bridgestones sat in my shed.
Some people here lavish a lot of money on their performance Golf initially (kit and options) and frequently, that's not me - if not for my strongly perceived ugliness of the Cadiz wheel design i'd have happily stuck with 18" wheels and saved £900 as I am of the opinion that options are dead money and generally not worth the money lost over a 2 or 3 year term of ownership.
You can imagine then that I wouldn't have spent £600 on new tyres without a second thought if the Bridgestones weren't so poor at their job (grip) on the R. The Haldex flatters the tyres on initial traction, but that can't save poor grip. As they are hard as nails, my Bridgestones have hardly any wear on them.
Considering how much better my R is on both grip and ride comfort on PSS, it's a huge shame that VW didn't consider better rubber at the time. Recent owners are often seeing factory orders come through on better tyres.
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Can we have 1 thread without bridgestone tyres coming up. :wink: I have never read a forum with this much fuss over 1 damn tyre.
Surely that would be 4 damn tyres :wink:
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I swear by LingLong Ditchfinders
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Can we have 1 thread without bridgestone tyres coming up. :wink: I have never read a forum with this much fuss over 1 damn tyre.
Surely that would be 4 damn tyres :wink:
I swear by LingLong Ditchfinders
:grin:
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^Nope, Had 18" S001 on my GTD and it was tramptastic with lots of tyre noise. Then I got my R on 19" wheels (RE050A) and although no initial traction issues due to the haldex, the grip going slowly around roundabouts in very mild winter weather (9C ambient temp, morning dew, not wet) was poor, the ride was poor as the compound is rock hard too. Switched to Michelin PSS after 6k miles and the diffrrence is night and day in all conditions grip. Bridgestones sat in my shed to go back on when I sell the car.
235 35 19 91Y XL prices from Mytyres.com
£184 for PPS vs £140 for RE050A
Not really going for the same market with that price difference and the bean counters at VW will never spend the extra.
Durable tyres could be more important for VW than ultimate grip especially now tyre maintenance is included frequently with finance deals (and if you crash because of low grip tyres, VW will either sell you a new car, or sell you very profitable repair parts, either way they win!).
Ford allow you to specify the tyres you want from a limited range on the lowly Transit van - surely VW could do something similar and make a bit of money out of their customers at the same time. I'd rather have paid VW an extra £100 for them to have fitted PSS than have to pay £600 for 4 and have a £500 set of Bridgestones sat in my shed.
Some people here lavish a lot of money on their performance Golf initially (kit and options) and frequently, that's not me - if not for my strongly perceived ugliness of the Cadiz wheel design i'd have happily stuck with 18" wheels and saved £900 as I am of the opinion that options are dead money and generally not worth the money lost over a 2 or 3 year term of ownership.
You can imagine then that I wouldn't have spent £600 on new tyres without a second thought if the Bridgestones weren't so poor at their job (grip) on the R. The Haldex flatters the tyres on initial traction, but that can't save poor grip. As they are hard as nails, my Bridgestones have hardly any wear on them.
Considering how much better my R is on both grip and ride comfort on PSS, it's a huge shame that VW didn't consider better rubber at the time. Recent owners are often seeing factory orders come through on better tyres.
What tyres are later cars coming on?
My point earlier was that PSS is a specialist tyre and not just a good big brand tyre like RE050A (yes!), Pzero, Sport Contact 5, Eagle F1, Pilot Sport etc which is all VW feel the need to fit to this car, at the end of the day it's just a VW and their margins are tight.
So even a Euro difference would make a difference to the bean counters, just look at how little paint they apply now
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^ I would have been happy with any of the Tyres you mentioned apart from Bridgestones - I went for PSS on replacement as they were as cheap in Costco as Conti 5 etc are elsewhere. Plenty of GTD/GTI owners from launch models here (there was an assortment of tyres going on 2013 built cars) that didn't get Bridgestones and didn't really suffer from tramping. My point is not that PSS should have been fitted, but that pretty much any other tyre in that retail price bracket would have done a far better job of giving grip and traction.
Some recent Golfs on 19" wheels have come on Contisport 5.
My Dad's GTD came on Dunlop SP01s and you couldn't get it to tramp at all, excepting icy conditions. 8 VWs from new (4 Golfs, 2 Sciroccos and 2 Polos) and 3 of them came on Bridgestones and the 2 that were 2WD tramped easily (all 3 had poor damp grip, dry grip on a par with a mid-range brand), the others came on Pirelli P7s, Goodyear Eagle, Dunlop SP01, Continental etc and didn't tramp.
Are Bridgestones markedly cheaper than their peers at a bulk level? It might be as much down to reliability of delivery in those numbers as raw cost - we'll never know.
Everyone within VAG is at it, Audis can come on Hankooks now (the wife's A1 did, and i've seen a new S3 at the Audi garage on them too).
I fully agree with your paint comment - the paintwork appears half the thickness it was in the solvent based paint days when you look at your chips and how deep they are before you're into the primer or even the metal, with a lack of gloss lacquer anywhere that is considered out of sight.
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^ Sounds like you've done some testing, TBH I drove my R from March to October so not really the best tyre testing weather.
There are probably variations in the compound too that will mean all RE050s do not perform the same.
I was surprised Toyo got OE approval for TT RS and B8 RS 4 for T1-R a few years back and how 8P RS 3 came on some low spec Contis and then got panned for its understeer, I really do think the accountants rule the engineers - which probably explains why VW had to take things out of the CSS to offset the cost of the engineering modifications - just happened to save weight.
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Why surprised about Toyo?
My TTRS had the T1-Sport (R01) from new, and never had any complaints about grip or handling in a wide variety of north Scotland weather conditions (ice, snow, rain, damp and dry...and that was just a summers day :grin: )
I can imagine a 2nd tier brand like Toyo would have approached Audi to let them develop a suitable tyre for certain S and RS models and like any two companies, would have agreed commercial terms for such an arrangement
Audi get a good price on a batch of 60,000 tyres for example...Toyo get publicity and brand kudos for being rated for prestige models.
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Why surprised about Toyo?
My TTRS had the T1-Sport (R01) from new, and never had any complaints about grip or handling in a wide variety of north Scotland weather conditions (ice, snow, rain, damp and dry...and that was just a summers day :grin: )
I can imagine a 2nd tier brand like Toyo would have approached Audi to let them develop a suitable tyre for certain S and RS models and like any two companies, would have agreed commercial terms for such an arrangement
Audi get a good price on a batch of 60,000 tyres for example...Toyo get publicity and brand kudos for being rated for prestige models.
I mentioned them because at the time, it was unusual for Audi to use a 2nd tier company, I don't have an issue with Toyos at all.
Before that I can only think of TVR that used them as OE, I guess that means they must be good seeing as there were zero drivers aids :cool:
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:wink: