GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: fergie7 on 16 September 2016, 19:18
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Swung by a couple of dealerships today to get some quotes for the car's 3rd year service and asked what they had on servicing time/distance wise for the front differential (VAQ) also known by the OEM, Borg Warner, as FXD (Front Cross Differential). Not seen anything on this forum in the past but some brief threads over on the golfmk7 and VWvortex forums which had mentioned 3 years but also linked to a Borg Warner webinar covering the FXD that states "oil filled for life" - how many years/miles "for life" counts as it doesnt say.
I got a copy of the Service related items and the recommended time/distances for the GTI Performance Pack which does indeed show that the differential's oil should be replaced every 3 years, no mileage given. I'm assuming it is the same oil as the Haldex, no mention of filter change for the VAQ though. Anyone had a service done on their VAQ yet? Or anyone got access to the Maintenance Service Manual for more info?
ADDED:- I you have the time and want to know more about the VAQ technically, the video/webinar in this link covers them very thoroughly (https://vimeo.com/102644851).
See below the Service related items time/distance requirements and RRP pricing that were brought up for my 2013 GTI with Performance Pack.
(http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag172/Fergie_7/mk7/GTI-PP_Servicing_zpsxqbxligp.jpg) (http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/Fergie_7/media/mk7/GTI-PP_Servicing_zpsxqbxligp.jpg.html)
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Hi
I posted on G7 forum about it a long time ago and also watched the borg warner video, I thought at the time it was odd that VW seemed to imply a fill for life system but couldn't find any further info when i asked the dealer, especially when its a clutch pack diff, or torque vectoring process. My rear BMW diff was fill for life but i manually changed it a 3 years with a extraction pump and refill. Porsche clutch pack LSD on GT3 requires a strip and rebuild every few years, so fill for life is unusual.
The dealer definition of "fill for life" is normally filled until out of normal service warranty and then "not our problem". But as you have found info I would happily pay £100 for a refresh at 3 years, but if its 1 ltr or less of Castrol high spec diff oil LS***** I will do it myself, same as the BMW.
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Interesting, my car has a pre paid 3rd service, I haven't asked about the diff oil service yet, but I think I know the answer from VW?
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Interesting, my car has a pre paid 3rd service, I haven't asked about the diff oil service yet, but I think I know the answer from VW?
Same here. Looking at my agreement, the third service is "1x oil service and inspection service with extended scope at 30000 miles or 36 months". Not sure what "extended scope" means. I might contact them to see what they cover but I would want my diff oil changed if needed.
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Hi
I posted on G7 forum about it a long time ago and also watched the borg warner video, I thought at the time it was odd that VW seemed to imply a fill for life system but couldn't find any further info when i asked the dealer, especially when its a clutch pack diff, or torque vectoring process. My rear BMW diff was fill for life but i manually changed it a 3 years with a extraction pump and refill. Porsche clutch pack LSD on GT3 requires a strip and rebuild every few years, so fill for life is unusual.
The dealer definition of "fill for life" is normally filled until out of normal service warranty and then "not our problem". But as you have found info I would happily pay £100 for a refresh at 3 years, but if its 1 ltr or less of Castrol high spec diff oil LS***** I will do it myself, same as the BMW.
Nice forum name, the dude abides...
The "fill for life" actually comes from Borg Warner and not VW, seems strange to me and certainly a 3 year or say 20k mile interval would seem sensible. I've not checked what oil it is that they take, cant see it being anything that isn't readily available, possibly uses the same as the Haldex. Would be interesting/scary to see what Porsche charge for a complete strip and rebuild of the diff on the GT3 or what Ferrari charge for the F430 & 458 for that matter.
(http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag172/Fergie_7/mk7/BorgWarnerFXD_zps2mfoe8ki.jpg) (http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/Fergie_7/media/mk7/BorgWarnerFXD_zps2mfoe8ki.jpg.html)
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Interesting, my car has a pre paid 3rd service, I haven't asked about the diff oil service yet, but I think I know the answer from VW?
Same here. Looking at my agreement, the third service is "1x oil service and inspection service with extended scope at 30000 miles or 36 months". Not sure what "extended scope" means. I might contact them to see what they cover but I would want my diff oil changed if needed.
Unfortunately the 3rd year service doesn't cover the diff, this would be additional, the two prices I got from dealers I went to were £104.40 and £123.06 for changing the diff oil. I've just taken out another years extended warranty cover, so looking to take the car to a VW dealership again to hopefully prevent any potential issues if anything happened in the next year.
I'm not sure what the "extended scope" is that makes up the 3rd year service over and above a minor service. Wouldn't be surprised if the "extended scope" inspections/checks are effectively covered by the MOT anyway.
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On a golf as new as these an mot proves nothing, i had the major service done to my mk6 to satisfy me as despite the stamps in the book i don't know who owned it. I am obsessive, so i would change the oil and filter when it wants it not when vw say is never, i like to know my cars are in a better mood than all the others out there.
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On the subject of 3rd year service, be careful on this one it's 30,000 mile maximum. I took mine in for it's 3rd year service recently and was over the max so had to pay £230 for it. I personally feel they stitched me up on it a little by using long life oil for the first 2 services which meant there was no way my 3rd would come in under 30,000 miles.
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Normally surely you service the car either on the year or mileage, whichever comes first. Not wait past the mileage for the year to be up.
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On the subject of 3rd year service, be careful on this one it's 30,000 mile maximum. I took mine in for it's 3rd year service recently and was over the max so had to pay £230 for it. I personally feel they stitched me up on it a little by using long life oil for the first 2 services which meant there was no way my 3rd would come in under 30,000 miles.
Thats what I thought Ant..
OK you went over the 30k miles/3 years under the VW Service plan conditions but whether they used Longlife oil or not the car should have given you warnings the service was due at 30k mile/three years ( unless you were set up for Longlife Servicing).
I thought there was 500 mile leeway on servicing points anyway perhaps it depends on the dealer.
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I went in for servicing when the car told me to rather than deciding myself based on mileage. The first was normal 10k. Didn't really consider the terms of the service plan. I was about 40,000 when it went for it's third service;
1st 10,000 Miles - Long life used, 15k Interval
2nd 25,000 Miles - Long life used, 15k Interval
3rd 40,000 Miles - Passed the threshold for a free service.
I felt a little hard done by that they didn't bother realising they had sold me the 3 year plan and left me on normal oil. The service manager said they used long life by default. Sounds a bit of a con to me.
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I don't want to be harsh, to me it seems you have made a mistake. You have driven your car too far over the 3 year period, sorry mate but you needed to take it for its third service at 30000 miles.
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Nice forum name, the dude abides...
(http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag172/Fergie_7/mk7/BorgWarnerFXD_zps2mfoe8ki.jpg) (http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/Fergie_7/media/mk7/BorgWarnerFXD_zps2mfoe8ki.jpg.html)
The dude abides :wink:
I seem to have more questions than answers about this diff, and as always the dealer is not a lot of help. The oil will, being a small amount, get contaminated and break down due to accumulative use, but will the XDS+ take the load for Yaw as it wears?or does the pump increase to take up the slack? Are the clutch plates plasma moly coated? Or coated some other way? Will normal diff oil for LSD work? I really don't want to ask these questions at a service counter as the young women on the counter at my dealership will think i am talking a foreign language if i ask these questions. Not her fault, most punters don't even bother to top up washer water or check the engine oil properly..
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Unfortunately not much info at all, either from VW or the OEM. Would be nice to know the recommended service intervals in terms of strip down, inspection of the clutch plates etc. as well as the the recommended 3 year oil change. It would be nice to know the estimated longevity in terms of mileage but suppose this would vary massively based on driving style (commuting vs track or enthusiastic B road driving) and potentially the driver selection setting (Sport - Normal). I would hope that the XDS+ would start to take over as the clutch plates wear, would be ideal if this is able to be detected and flag up a fault code.
The oil change procedure for the VAQ is in ELSA, the guy at the service desk at the dealership pulled it up and went through it, but wouldnt provide any info on part numbers or oil, it shows use of plenty of VAG special tools, but could easily be done at home by the looks of it. ELSA just states "gear oil".
I've now had another wee look on the internet and managed to find an online ETKA that works, but had to search in Brasil to find the mk7 GTI (CHHA engine code). In the Front axle-steering section you find "front axle differential lock for 6 speed manual gearbox MQ350 PNP" and "front axle differential lock for 6-speed dual clutch gearbox DQ250 petrol eng.+ CHHA".
For both it states: G06 017 5A2 High-Performance Oil for Haldex Coupling (850ml).
The sealing plugs (both fill and drain) with washer gaskets are (M18x1.5) P/N: WHT007168 Sealing Plug.
Part number for the 6 speed manual would appear to be 02Q 409 055 and for the DSG 0D9 409 055. This also tallies with other searches of the P/N which brings up references to the Cupra and several units for sale on fleabay etc. Doesn't show any of the internals or part numbers so I'm guessing for now if it failed/wore out or any internals needed replacing then VW would just go the route of replacing the whole unit.
For reference, P/N's for: Control Unit for Differential lock (0CQ 907 554E) and hydraulic pump (0CQ 525 549).
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VAQ for 6 speed manual exploded drawing & parts.
(http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag172/Fergie_7/mk7/Screen%20Shot%202016-09-17%20at%2021.03.51_zpsirt7ovey.png) (http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/Fergie_7/media/mk7/Screen%20Shot%202016-09-17%20at%2021.03.51_zpsirt7ovey.png.html)
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Thanks for the info Fergie7
I'm sure we will come back to this thread and add to it as the cars get older :wink:
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Part number for the 6 speed manual would appear to be 02Q 409 055 and for the DSG 0D9 409 055. This also tallies with other searches of the P/N which brings up references to the Cupra and several units for sale on fleabay etc. Doesn't show any of the internals or part numbers so I'm guessing for now if it failed/wore out or any internals needed replacing then VW would just go the route of replacing the whole unit.
For reference, P/N's for: Control Unit for Differential lock (0CQ 907 554E) and hydraulic pump (0CQ 525 549).
Based on these part numbers, retail costs are:
Control Unit £178
Hydraulic Pmp £313
And the biggy, the diff is £987
There is a full parts breakdown so I would imagine a repair is possible. The question would be about viability given labour costs, it might be cheaper to change the whole diff unit?
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Just following up on this, I have just booked my car in with VW for it's 3 year service next month.
The lady booking the service, didn't know about the diff oil service, went off to check and found out it was outside the service pack remit, they suggested it was an additional £65, which I felt was reasonable.
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That does sound reasonable..
I know labour rates differ in various parts of the country but your £65 quote is quite a difference to the £104 quoted on Fergie's individual car service print out for the same work.
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Agreed, I pointed out it was a fluid change on the Differential unit and I understood it was Haldex fluid.
The service lady came back after checking it was serviceable after 3 years with £65, I agreed rather than suggest that was way too cheap!
I'll report back once the car is serviced.
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£65 is a very decent price, the oil on it's own from VW is £35-£40! With the car already up on the lift for it's service anyway I cant see it taking much more than 10-15 mins to do, maybe 30-40mins if being done as a standalone service including preparation and paperwork time.
My car is due in for service on Tuesday, I've not requested the diff oil change yet, will see if they can come down much on the price and if not then will probably just do it myself later when I have the car up to put the winter wheels on (already ordered a bottle of the oil from TPS in any case).
I reached a hand down from the top of the engine bay today to get to the filling hole and confirmed the plugs take an 8mm hex bit. Just need to get some clear tubing to be able to fill it from the top.
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There's supposed to be 1000 miles leeway on services, my dad went a little late on his 3rd service and it wasn't a bother to the dealer. He got a full end of warranty inspection too and had a bit of work based on stored fault codes.
It really shouldn't matter to the dealer - VW pay them to do that service-pack service, perhaps the dealer just didn't want the reduced hourly rate of VW sanctioned work as it had plenty of private rate work to be getting on with? Try another dealer.
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Old thread revival because I couldn't find any more info.
My cars 3 yrs old so thought I'd ask the question at the dealers about VAQ Diff oil change - lots of scratching of heads, rang around a few dealers & I get the same response :lipsrsealed: Took to twitter and get the following response from VW Uk
"Thanks for your patience! We've had it confirmed by our technicians that the VAQ differential does not require periodic fluid replacement in the same way that an engine or gearbox might. Our only advice is to follow the vehicle's general service schedule to keep on top of your vehicle's day to day maintenance. We hope this clarifies."
In the meantime I'd booked it in at the local dealers £70 and an hours wait. (price isn't too bad)
So the dilemma I have is, the VAQ Diff is working faultlessly so why mess with it? But old skool me thinks an oil change would be a sensible thing - wouldn't it?
:rolleyes:
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Wow that video on the VAQ diff is boring. I actually fell asleep.
When I managed to sit through the whole thing - the first part is too technical for me, the middle bit is quite interesting and Q&A at the end was over my head.
However, anyone who has, or is considering getting, a GTI Performance should have a watch. From 18:30 to 33:30mins (15 minutes) is the best bit. VW have a video on YouTube that is shorter and covers the essentials. Though it does feel like it's just an advert.
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it's an interesting video, and makes me wonder why with having the perf pack increases ones insurance. because with my basic understasnding of it it makes me think that the car is a lot safer in the areas where a lot of people will have troubles with driving, especially the fast lane change. it's definitely made my mind up. :)
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I still recommend watching the full video https://vimeo.com/102644851 (https://vimeo.com/102644851) - from 18:30 to 33:30.
It shows the advantages of VAQ eLSD diff without the disadvantages of AWD i.e. extra weight and much lower fuel economy.
Here is the short 1m15sec video on youtube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQqh2Tv5Puc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQqh2Tv5Puc)
I wonder why this is not an option on the GTD?
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Old thread revival because I couldn't find any more info.
My cars 3 yrs old so thought I'd ask the question at the dealers about VAQ Diff oil change - lots of scratching of heads, rang around a few dealers & I get the same response :lipsrsealed: Took to twitter and get the following response from VW Uk
"Thanks for your patience! We've had it confirmed by our technicians that the VAQ differential does not require periodic fluid replacement in the same way that an engine or gearbox might. Our only advice is to follow the vehicle's general service schedule to keep on top of your vehicle's day to day maintenance. We hope this clarifies."
In the meantime I'd booked it in at the local dealers £70 and an hours wait. (price isn't too bad)
So the dilemma I have is, the VAQ Diff is working faultlessly so why mess with it? But old skool me thinks an oil change would be a sensible thing - wouldn't it?
:rolleyes:
Same issue i'm having with dealer, they say they know nothing about the diff oil change, i don't mind paying but want them to even understand what the diff is and that it has oil to potentially replace.
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Old thread revival because I couldn't find any more info.
My cars 3 yrs old so thought I'd ask the question at the dealers about VAQ Diff oil change - lots of scratching of heads, rang around a few dealers & I get the same response :lipsrsealed: Took to twitter and get the following response from VW Uk
"Thanks for your patience! We've had it confirmed by our technicians that the VAQ differential does not require periodic fluid replacement in the same way that an engine or gearbox might. Our only advice is to follow the vehicle's general service schedule to keep on top of your vehicle's day to day maintenance. We hope this clarifies."
In the meantime I'd booked it in at the local dealers £70 and an hours wait. (price isn't too bad)
So the dilemma I have is, the VAQ Diff is working faultlessly so why mess with it? But old skool me thinks an oil change would be a sensible thing - wouldn't it?
:rolleyes:
Same issue i'm having with dealer, they say they know nothing about the diff oil change, i don't mind paying but want them to even understand what the diff is and that it has oil to potentially replace.
Jackie - I had mine done in the end for the bargain price of £70 they quoted me wrong, but honoured the price quoted :wink:
Invoice states: Renew front diff lock oil change - due at 3 years
WG 060 175 A2 270307/gear oil
Can't say I notice any difference, but I know it's been done so feel a little happier
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Thanks
I rang VW UK in the end to confirm the diff oil change is work required at 3 years, then went back to the Dealer service manager to get it sorted. I explained that i wasn't bringing in a Alfa Juiletta but there own brand 2014 Golf and they should know what it has to have and what a VAQ diff service is. Anyway £99 for diff oil change with my 3rd year service and the brake fluid change (both the service and brake fluid change are part of the £199 service plan). More worryingly for me was VWUK didn't have a record of any service work for my car (I bought it new 3 years ago) so had a moan at the dealer for no completing the process on the system correctly for VWUK as i clearly have all the services and docs to prove it. I will wait a week and call VW UK to confirm they have a record of my services updated.
The other potential issue down the road is this: I am keeping my car as it was always the plan, spent too much on cars over the last 10 tens to faff about anymore changing so will just get full extended warranty, i wonder what would happen if I had a VAQ diff issue and I hadn't pushed to get the service work done at 3 years?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW6b5myTgvI :nerd: