GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: Jan DR on 17 April 2016, 15:53
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Hi,
I am about to order a GTI clubsport. But the classic question comes: manual or DSG..
Owners who have a MkVII, what would you do if you would order a new one?
Thanks for sharing your opinion!
Jan
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Its a personal choice, that said i prefer manual :smiley:
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Either are good options for all sorts of reasons
But I bought a manual, and would buy a manual again.
My thoughts: I don't live in a city so feel I don't need an auto. 2 friends have auto's 1 with a GTI PP the other with a A250 AMG. They both like it but neither enjoy driving in the same way I do, they like nice cars but don't seem to get the thrill of driving like me, as I want to drive to Spain, french Alps, Nordschleife and don't mind the keep fit gearbox at all. While they like the laziness of it and don't often use the paddles.
I also don't think the DSG is light or efficient compared to the PDK in the Porsche, which improves on its manual alternative in performance and economy. So not only are you adding weight with the DSG, but also worse mpg and worse Co2. The next gen will hopefully be on par with the 8 speed in the BMW which is a great gearbox I think, but the DSG we have in the Mk7 seems imo a little long in the tooth.
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Its a personal choice, that said i prefer manual :smiley:
I 2nd that Ant my mates got a DSG but not only a die hard manual fan I found the DSG on the Gti I test drove takes away the excitement yeah you can punch it to get the kick down but nothing compares to a quick double clutch or singular drop a cog n away ya go... :whistle:
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Surely the point with DSG is you don't need to "punch it to get kick-down" as you have control of the gears via the paddles or manual mode on the shifter...
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I think these automatic boxes are so good nowadays that I'm pretty sure that whatever I get next will be an auto. Never had one before but ready want to try it for a few years.
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Surely the point with DSG is you don't need to "punch it to get kick-down" as you have control of the gears via the paddles or manual mode on the shifter...
Yeah I know you've got the levers but it's easier to punch the pedal lol
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Was going to get an auto DSG for my next car, but living in Cornwall with lots of B roads I found myself getting another manual. :smiley:
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Hi Jan, with respect but it is a pointless question. Only you can decide how to spend your money. Both gearboxes have their positives and negatives and you'll get them all covered no doubt in this thread. Good luck or veel geluk!
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As the last poster says it personal preference but my thinking was as I intend to keep the car for years the manual would be cheaper to fix if anything goes wrong. I still see DSG as new technology 😳
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As the last poster says it personal preference but my thinking was as I intend to keep the car for years the manual would be cheaper to fix if anything goes wrong. I still see DSG as new technology 😳
I agree with this point. I would add three others:
1. manual is cheaper
2. the heritage of the GTI suggests manual, does it not? Bit like golf ball gear knob, and tartan seat cloth
3. I foresee a medium term future where all cars will be some sort of auto (perhaps manual available as a cost option, the opposite of now) - the GTI has a good manual 'box, so enjoy it while you can.
Bubba.
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Thank you all for the feedback!
On paper, the DSG should be the better option, and I like the continous power through acceleration. But I did a testdrive with a GTI DSG and I was dissapointed about the "manual" mode: the reaction speeds of the gearbox when you touch the "up" paddle.
For the daily commute (with quite some traffic), the DSG is attractive in combination with the dynamic cruise control: "follow to stop". But on the other hand: the purpose of a GTI is not for the comfort...
So still a hard choice, but good to read that there are people who are happy with their "manual" choice!
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Thank you all for the feedback!
On paper, the DSG should be the better option, and I like the continous power through acceleration. But I did a testdrive with a GTI DSG and I was dissapointed about the "manual" mode: the reaction speeds of the gearbox when you touch the "up" paddle.
For the daily commute (with quite some traffic), the DSG is attractive in combination with the dynamic cruise control: "follow to stop". But on the other hand: the purpose of a GTI is not for the comfort...
So still a hard choice, but good to read that there are people who are happy with their "manual" choice!
Good luck on your choice of gearbox as already said the choice is yours for whatever reasons but you have read the pros and cons I've never had a problem with manuals but again myself personally it's the manual box all the time
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I went for the manual box after a bit of pondering and the minute I drove it home I knew I'd made the right choice :wink:
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Another reason I did not get a DSG box over Manual, is the Manual is so good and much more involving. I know the DSG can change gear a lot quicker than Manual and it makes the 0-60 time marginally quicker but the joy of using a Manual gearbox out weights all of it for me. Especially as stated before on the many B roads in my local area.
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I think the R would suit a DSG more than a GTI due to the very different power delivery.
BUT the main reason for getting a manual GTI is the golf ball gear knob. We'd been waiting over 20 years for them to put that back in production on a series GTI (not a special edition GTI) and that alone makes it worth saving £1400.
Oh, and the fact you can anticipate corners far better than a computer, can block change and have learned that it's bad to change gear mid bend as it upsets Mother Nature and Einstein all in one go unlike a... you get the message.
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I agree, manual for the GTI and DSG for the R :)
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I agree, manual for the GTI and DSG for the R :)
I think I'd second that. To me, some about the clubsport says it has to be a manual...
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I like the DSG, I didn't even bother test driving a manual golf as I knew I wanted an auto box in my next car. I'm not bothered about the extra weight, the efficiency penalty is worth it to me too. The way it works with the cruise control is really useful in traffic too.
I don't think I'll go back to a manual for daily use again if I can help it.
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My daily commute contains 21 roundabouts EACH WAY.......add some rush hour traffic to this makes me never want a manual again!
Each to their own. :smiley:
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Hi Jan, with respect but it is a pointless question. Only you can decide how to spend your money. Both gearboxes have their positives and negatives and you'll get them all covered no doubt in this thread. Good luck or veel geluk!
+1 but...
I have a DSG on my Mk6 GTD. I'm fairly certain my next car will be a manual Mk7.5 GTI.
My needs have changed. I have gone from 20k+ miles a year, to less than 10k a year. Most of my driving will be bumpy B roads. Having owned a DSG, I know that a manual GTI will meet my current needs better. DCC is also a must for the roads I will be driving.
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I agree that the manual suits the spirit of the GTI more. I was impressed by the DSG (even more by the BMW 8spd) but it didn't 'feel' right to me for a smallish, lightish hot hatch. Do what feels right for you, though (obviously)
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The DSG box is an amazing piece of kit but I know many folks don't 'get on with it'.
When my work habits change I'll go back to manual but until then it's DSG all the way!! Don't know how I'd cope without it driving in hellish commuter traffic going into Manchester :whistle:
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I'm getting my first DSG in my Golf R.
Currently have manual in my GTI PP.
:)
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I was always anti DSG, we now have two DSG cars and a convert given rented R is DSG and BMW will be DCT
Don't agree the it suits the GTI as it runs out of puff lower down the rev range, on the R you have to work it to get the best out of it, always felt the manual was more fun in the bigger turbo car, however, also more easy to get caught with you pants down off boost.
Test drives do not do them justice, took me about 2 months to really grasp it and I now use manual most of the time but then use D/S as needs be
They are different but find the 'its not a proper drivers car or engaging' argument a bit yawn yawn and not true its engaging in a different way
I think a lot boils down to the daily grind you endure, I miss a manual for 5% if at all but DSG just suits my daily grind
I thing DSG does score in the way it integrates in with the ACC
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I was always anti DSG...
They are different but find the 'its not a proper drivers car or engaging' argument a bit yawn yawn and not true its engaging in a different way
I think a lot boils down to the daily grind you endure, I miss a manual for 5% if at all but DSG just suits my daily grind
I thing DSG does score in the way it integrates in with the ACC
+1
DSG is good for 95% of my driving. However, I miss the manual for control when overtaking. Paddles are ok, but I have to say it, 'just not as engaging!' :P
My wife has ACC on her A3 with S-tronic. Really good for her commute.
Here is something to consider - on paper DSG is faster 0-60. However, that is using launch control. Not a feature that is practical to use every day. In gear acceleration should be the same, but my DSG has a mind of it's own sometimes.
In my opinion - it is very much a case of horses for courses. For short journeys on B roads - I think manual. For long journeys and lots of traffic - I think auto would be easier to live with.
Here is an interesting question - can you consider yourself a driving enthusiast with an automatic car?
... lights touch paper... stands back :evil:
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You can be a driving enthusiast in any car with any gearbox! Just because some people have a manual, red, 3 door gti doesn't make them any more an enthusiast than anyone else. It's a personal choice but neither is right or wrong.
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Never had automatic before and was really in the manual camp and only relented as wife does drive the car and she has used one previously and nagged me into it.
Would never go back to manual unless had to as its the perfect selection for the typical UK drive, particularly in combination with the auto hold, takes all the strain out of the journey.
The gearbox is pretty slick and seamless and only when in D do you sometimes get caught out on a pull away where a manual would never let you down. But have got quite adept at moving the stick between D and S to driving conditions so them times are rare.
Paddles do give you that additional element of control where road allows and it can add to the experience though would say the DSG in Sport is not shabby either and hardly lets you down.
For me most journeys, 90% even are much like everyone else as we move along in the flow of traffic and for that alone the DSG wins out easily and for the other 10% you have the paddles which though not same as manual do the job pretty damn well for when want greater control.
Its amazing tech, far better than ever imagined, its seamless nature genuinely surprised me.
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I only find that a drive needs to be "engaging" when pressing on at 8 tenths or above. Even out here in the sticks, common sense takes over and that rarely happens. DSG does such a good job of doing what it does, I see little need for a manual gearbox anymore.
That's my view on it. For anyone to make an informed decision, they need to have a decent experience of driving both cars. Half an hour in a demo or the opinions of others may not make the correct decision for you.
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I've had my DSG GTi for almost 12 months now, came from a manual Mk5 GTi. Its a great box 95% of the time and suits my driving very well, I would struggle go back to a manual.
I have to admit I can count on one hand the number of times I've used S mode, I use D mode and flip the paddles when needed. As others have said combined with ACC its a winning combination for me.
I just think it gives you more options than the manual box, It can be a great auto or a pretty good manual when you learn how to use it.
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+1
DSG is good for 95% of my driving. However, I miss the manual for control when overtaking. Paddles are ok, but I have to say it, 'just not as engaging!' :P
My wife has ACC on her A3 with S-tronic. Really good for her commute.
Here is something to consider - on paper DSG is faster 0-60. However, that is using launch control. Not a feature that is practical to use every day. In gear acceleration should be the same, but my DSG has a mind of it's own sometimes.
In my opinion - it is very much a case of horses for courses. For short journeys on B roads - I think manual. For long journeys and lots of traffic - I think auto would be easier to live with.
Here is an interesting question - can you consider yourself a driving enthusiast with an automatic car?
... lights touch paper... stands back :evil:
Yes I think so, I wouldn't turn down a PDK GT3 on the basis it would not meet my requirement for a manual, or that it wasn't an enthusiasts car (although some Porsche aficionado think its heresy to have a GT3 only available in PDK).
On very long journeys 1000 + miles across Europe, I never wish I had an auto as you are mostly sitting in 6th anyway, I never wish I have an auto on B roads where I live either. But that doesn't mean I can't fully understand why people want DSG. Sitting last year on the Brussel ring road in heavy traffic I did have a moment where I thought this would be my last manual, but for me it quickly fades, perhaps on the next gen...
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You can be a driving enthusiast in any car with any gearbox! Just because some people have a manual, red, 3 door gti doesn't make them any more an enthusiast than anyone else. It's a personal choice but neither is right or wrong.
I've not really considered myself a driving enthusiast before! I just like cars.
I've mostly had autos during my driving life and was looking for a DSG Golf but as soon as I drove mine I knew it was right. I don't think an auto would've suited it's character but I can fully appreciate why others would go for it. Even though they are clearly wrong :wink:
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The DSG box is an amazing piece of kit but I know many folks don't 'get on with it'.
When my work habits change I'll go back to manual but until then it's DSG all the way!! Don't know how I'd cope without it driving in hellish commuter traffic going into Manchester :whistle:
I was up in Manchester for a bit last summer, every morning I saw a really shiny white 5 door GTI go past in Ancoats. Manchester is the one place I saw quite a few more mk7 GTIs than R's.
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Quite a sensible considered set of arguements on here, compared to the slanging match on the "other" forum. :evil: Have to say that, if I'd grown up in a country full of gas guzzlers with slush pumps, I'd probably be violently anti anything like an automatic gearbox, too.
But the DSG isn't just an auto box - it's far cleverer than that. It's also far more efficient in terms of power delivery and fuel consumption, as well as giving a direct feeling to the transmission, rather than the "wait for it" torque converter delay.
My 2 years with the GTD showed me that auto hold and ACC had been designed around the DSG 'box, so I felt somewhat short changed and had to try a DSG. So far, I have not been disappointed. The cars systems work seamlessly and the 'box itself is a technical triumph. As above somewher, I was amazed by it's smoothness. Not involving is the put down, well I don't have to prove I can drive stick. Overall, I don't miss the clutch in my Golf.
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I've been testing in a DSG equipped MK5 in the wet at Rockingham.
Controller was un-fettled at that stage.
Could get away with changing gear in stupid places with it, awesome bit of kit. As soon as the wheels started to spin pull another gear grip and go even mid corner.
It won both races the next day in the hands of the regular pilot.
One guy running DSG converted to manual halfway through the season as he wasn't getting on with it. His pace was about the same all year long.
My only gripe is the upshift/downshift is the wrong way around on the gear stick after driving "proper" sequential boxes.
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I toyed with a DSG on my present GTD. Will I won't I? A bit like how some of us struggle with what colour.
I set off for work just before the main rush hour kicks in, although I do get caught up in the start stop traffic at times but because that is only for a couple of miles I've never once thought I need an auto.
It's more of an itch that I need to scratch. It's a bit like getting a VW Up as a courtesy car and thinking you could go one of them but could you actually live with it? I've had a couple of S-Tronic courtesy cars when we had the Audi and must admit I was suitably impressed and I think that's where I've got the itch.
What I did like was although its an auto you can put the gearstick to the side and change gears by moving the stick back and forth as well as using the paddles. So if the box was getting confused you can easily take over.
I reckon its an itch I'll need to scratch with the next car. Like someone else said, autos will probably be the norm in a few years time.
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The way I see it is that both are manual gearboxes.
Instead of moving your left leg in and out to disengage and re-engage the clutch the DSG has an automated clutch and can change in milliseconds with no loss of drive or upsetting the balance of the car.
It also has perfect down changes with perfectly matched revs, could never heel and toe myself and it is pointless these days as as when you put your foot on the brake the accelerator is inactive.
I had DSG in my MK5 GTI and my MK6 GTI and will be getting it in my next car, absolutely love it.
The D and S modes are a bit pointless although D is good if stuck in traffic.
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The way I see it is that both are manual gearboxes.
Instead of moving your left leg in and out to disengage and re-engage the clutch the DSG has an automated clutch and can change in milliseconds with no loss of drive or upsetting the balance of the car.
It also has perfect down changes with perfectly matched revs, could never heel and toe myself and it is pointless these days as as when you put your foot on the brake the accelerator is inactive.
I had DSG in my MK5 GTI and my MK6 GTI and will be getting it in my next car, absolutely love it.
The D and S modes are a bit pointless although D is good if stuck in traffic.
You make a good point to be honest. I find when it's in auto mode, it's very jerky at low speeds.
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The way I see it is that both are manual gearboxes.
Instead of moving your left leg in and out to disengage and re-engage the clutch the DSG has an automated clutch and can change in milliseconds with no loss of drive or upsetting the balance of the car.
It also has perfect down changes with perfectly matched revs, could never heel and toe myself and it is pointless these days as as when you put your foot on the brake the accelerator is inactive.
I had DSG in my MK5 GTI and my MK6 GTI and will be getting it in my next car, absolutely love it.
The D and S modes are a bit pointless although D is good if stuck in traffic.
You make a good point to be honest. I find when it's in auto mode, it's very jerky at low speeds.
I love an auto but I'm really enjoying driving a manual now, you are more involved as it's a more mechanical experience. As for the point (which in fairness I can't disagree with) about faster changes and no loss of drive with a DSG etc, does that really matter in real world driving? It's a rare moment these days when I can give my car a bit of poke and I certainly don't go around racing people. On a track, probably yes but not on the road.
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I have had a manual and then a DSG Scirocco and thought I would never go back but when I tried a DSG GTI when the Mk 7's first appeared I hated it and thought how slow and dim witted it was and decided instantly to go back to a manual. When it went in for some warranty work my dealer lent me a DSG Golf R and I was expecting the worst but there must have been a reworking of the gearbox map as all the lethargy had disappeared and I loved it. Bloody salesman had done me up like a kipper and within a month or so my current DSG R was on order :whistle:
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I'm getting my first DSG in my Golf R.
Currently have manual in my GTI PP.
:)
That was exactly my situation when I went to the R from the GTI PP. Was weird at first, but once you get used to it I never looked back. Won't ever go back to a manual again now.
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Thank you all for the interesting insighths. The main thing I learned from your posts is that nobody regret's it's choice, meaning that they are both valid alternatives. Each with it's pro's and con's.
I finaly made my decision and ordered my Clubsport with DSG. Colour is Oryx white, black roof. Can't wait till September/October...
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Thank you all for the interesting insighths. The main thing I learned from your posts is that nobody regret's it's choice, meaning that they are both valid alternatives. Each with it's pro's and con's.
I finaly made my decision and ordered my Clubsport with DSG. Colour is Oryx white, black roof. Can't wait till September/October...
Congratulations enjoy the car and the box.
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The only change I would make for next time is choosing DSG over manual.
Could be something to consider when I start looking around for the R in a couple of months....
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While cleaning my car this morning, I once again pondered this question. I notice that a few people have said that they do miss manual sometimes. I agree that for 95% of my driving DGS is really good. What I was considering this morning is the 5%. That 5% may account for 50% or more of the fun factor of the car - if you follow what I am trying to say.
So there is no right or wrong choice. It is very much a personal decision.
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When I was originally looking for a used GTI, I was really adamant on wanting a manual box. I sort of didn't even consider a DSG until I decided to test one! Wow...fell in love straight away - was such an effortless drive and for the amount of traffic I sit in on a daily commute I thought why not? So when I decided against a used car and ordered a new one instead - DSG was the first thing on the list. Will see if I regret it after a few years! :rolleyes: