GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: johnboylds on 13 October 2015, 19:55
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Hi,
I've had my GTD for 18 months now, and I'm thinking its time for a change. I like the car, but I usually change every 12 months or so, so I'm getting itchy feet.
It needed some warranty work doing last week (I was getting stabbed by the broken engine start button!) and whilst picking it up I ended up chatting to a sales guy regarding an R. I had a test drive and loved it.
I've got two big issues that are stopping me pulling the trigger, both cost related.
The first is the trade in value for my GTD. Parkers guide, at the correct mileage and with options declared, has it at c£18,700 for part-ex but the dealer is offering me about £2,000 less than this. I owe £18,900 on the car, so if I'm really going to lose £2,000 at this point then there's no chance of a change. Has anyone recently traded in a GTD - are the trade in prices paid by the dealers really so far from the book price?
The second issue is the GFV on the R. My GTD at list price of £25.5k had a GFV of £12.5k. I'm being offered an R at a list of roughly £31k with a GFV of £12.5k - is this a result of all the leases out there? Have VW completely lost confidence in the R holding value over the next 3 years?
Against all this, the S3 has a GFV of £15.5k and £1k deposit contribution - I prefer the R over the S3 but not to the tune of £115 a month more!
Am I coming at this from the wrong angle? Does anyone buy an R on finance or is a lease the only cost effective way?
Sorry for the long post, but opinions and input would be appreciated!
John
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Not completely dissimilar to my situation a few months ago except mine was a GTI to an R.... Very long story short. Part ex price was rubbish so made an extra £2k and sold it private.
Finance deals on new and used R's were ridiculous, I mean seriously ridiculous.... So ended up with an 18 month old, one owner high spec S3 for £1700 in and only £10 a month more than I was paying on the GTI. From memory VW wanted £3k and £70 a month more than the GTI. That was for a bogo R.
Some say the R is a better drivers car, but as an everyday there is little in it. The Audi is a far nicer place to be interior wise. My Mrs has a 6 month old GTD which she loves but will always take the keys for my S3 if she can.
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I'm trading my 2014 13k mile GTD in for my new R in the next couple weeks, trade in for my car was £18350
My new R deal is as below, might not be the best but I can afford it and I really want one so happy enough.
3 Door
Tornado Red
DSG
Winter Pack
Keyless
2 Years servicing
Is costing me £380pm over 4 years with a £3k deposit.
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Hi,
I've had my GTD for 18 months now, and I'm thinking its time for a change. I like the car, but I usually change every 12 months or so, so I'm getting itchy feet.
It needed some warranty work doing last week (I was getting stabbed by the broken engine start button!) and whilst picking it up I ended up chatting to a sales guy regarding an R. I had a test drive and loved it.
I've got two big issues that are stopping me pulling the trigger, both cost related.
The first is the trade in value for my GTD. Parkers guide, at the correct mileage and with options declared, has it at c£18,700 for part-ex but the dealer is offering me about £2,000 less than this. I owe £18,900 on the car, so if I'm really going to lose £2,000 at this point then there's no chance of a change. Has anyone recently traded in a GTD - are the trade in prices paid by the dealers really so far from the book price?
The second issue is the GFV on the R. My GTD at list price of £25.5k had a GFV of £12.5k. I'm being offered an R at a list of roughly £31k with a GFV of £12.5k - is this a result of all the leases out there? Have VW completely lost confidence in the R holding value over the next 3 years?
Against all this, the S3 has a GFV of £15.5k and £1k deposit contribution - I prefer the R over the S3 but not to the tune of £115 a month more!
Am I coming at this from the wrong angle? Does anyone buy an R on finance or is a lease the only cost effective way?
Sorry for the long post, but opinions and input would be appreciated!
John
I'm guessing that the GFVs you're quoting are 4 year values? If not they seem very low. 3 year GFV on an R is currently around the £15k mark, give or take a bit for 3 door/5 door/DSG/Manual.
If the S3 is £115 a month cheaper then i'd be getting the S3 - do bare in mind though that the S3 spec is pretty spartan - yes you get leather seats and Xenons (not the dynamic ones we get on the GTD/GTI/R), but very little else. If you want stuff that most now take for granted (auto lights, wipers, dimming rear view mirror, cruise etc) it's going to cost you extra.
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Yes the S3 is lacking in some bits standard, but leather on the R is something crazy like £1700. Heated leather is standard on the S3 and im sure now basic nav is standard. Add the comfort pack (£600) and you get some of the nice touchs the R has, except adaptive headlights (£295) and folding mirrors (£150).... Still a lot less than £1700!
I am by no means slagging off the R I mean I nearly got one on a lease I just think the S3 can offer miles better value for money on a pcp.
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I ordered an R to replace my GTD a few weeks ago. Thankfully I no longer do the mileage to justify a diesel car. I've became quite a convert to leasing, particularly after talking finance with my local dealer. The numbers and commitment just don't stack up for me. My lease deal is £857 initial payment and £286 a month, 5000mpa over 24 months. Only options are metallic night blue and CarNet. I'll do more miles but the excess isn't ridiculous.
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Andrew - do those figures include an element of trade in for your current car?
Do they include VAT?
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Andrew - do those figures include an element of trade in for your current car?
Do they include VAT?
Hi Mark, yes VAT is included in those prices, it is a personal lease. And no, no trade-in, my current car is leased also.
It's part of the appeal for me to be honest, I've had a GTD for a few years, enjoyed it, but am ready to move on to something else. I don't have to worry about trading it in, negotiating with dealers etc. It's just very easy.
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That seems like a great lease deal - who is it with (or PM me please)?
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That seems like a great lease deal - who is it with (or PM me please)?
It is through Vehicle Savers - https://www.vehiclesavers.com
I've been dealing with Jack Snare and service thus far has been top notch.
ETA - Looks like their deals have increased hugely, a base 5 door manual with no options was £264pcm on a 3+23, that is now £310pcm!
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Has anyone recently traded in a GTD - are the trade in prices paid by the dealers really so far from the book price?
Hi, yes, I part exchanged my GTD on the 25th Sep. Registered July 14 and had done 14k miles. £1k of options (keyless, winter pack, park and high beam assist). I got £19,200. This wasn't with a VW dealer though. The offer you're getting seems very low. I managed to secure the price just before the diesel 'scandal' though. Dealers might be a little nervous at the moment, despite the fact that the GTD isn't affected.
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Hi,
I've had my GTD for 18 months now, and I'm thinking its time for a change. I like the car, but I usually change every 12 months or so, so I'm getting itchy feet.
It needed some warranty work doing last week (I was getting stabbed by the broken engine start button!) and whilst picking it up I ended up chatting to a sales guy regarding an R. I had a test drive and loved it.
I've got two big issues that are stopping me pulling the trigger, both cost related.
The first is the trade in value for my GTD. Parkers guide, at the correct mileage and with options declared, has it at c£18,700 for part-ex but the dealer is offering me about £2,000 less than this. I owe £18,900 on the car, so if I'm really going to lose £2,000 at this point then there's no chance of a change. Has anyone recently traded in a GTD - are the trade in prices paid by the dealers really so far from the book price?
The second issue is the GFV on the R. My GTD at list price of £25.5k had a GFV of £12.5k. I'm being offered an R at a list of roughly £31k with a GFV of £12.5k - is this a result of all the leases out there? Have VW completely lost confidence in the R holding value over the next 3 years?
Against all this, the S3 has a GFV of £15.5k and £1k deposit contribution - I prefer the R over the S3 but not to the tune of £115 a month more!
Am I coming at this from the wrong angle? Does anyone buy an R on finance or is a lease the only cost effective way?
Sorry for the long post, but opinions and input would be appreciated!
John
First thing I'd do is try a few more dealers.
A couple days spent on the phone could pay dividends.
If you're open minded whether you have an S3 or an R then I'd just get to work with the figures with as many dealers as possible all around the country.
Once you've had a test drive and know if the car is right for you then the next bit is the finance which can easily be done over the phone and via email. The phone is generally best as once you're on there they won't want to let you go unless you've signed on the line (metaphorically) so that gives you chance to negotiate hard. So long as you know exactly what you want and the sales guy knows this and you stick to the script you'll soon see whether your dealer was just taking advantage of the fact you just dropped in and might not have been too clued up - most punters aren't.
Used car prices are usually stage managed by the finance and marketing people nowadays but there is still the supply and demand variables that places like CAP and Glass's will monitor closely. At present with VW's we have a few slight unknowns thrown into the mix so the trade will be VERY cautious but it's not as if VW have completely turned into a lame duck just yet.
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I think I will be hanging on to my GTD until its over two years old (next April).....hopefully some of this 'dieselgate' fuss will have died down by then :undecided:
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Hi I am in the same situation at the moment. I have a 64 plate GTD which I like but with the small amount of miles I do i want to go back to petrol, so I ordered an R 2 weeks ago through dealer, my GTD is 12 months old in November and has covered 4500 miles, only options were discover nav and 19 inch santiagos with service pack and in solid white I paid £ 25,500 for it on a pcp deal with £7000 deposit and £197 over 36 mths. The dealer has given me £20,500 part ex against the R so with the finance paid off I have £3000 equity left. Putting £4000 cash to the equity thus giving me £7000 deposit against the R, which cost me £27.491, standard 3 door in lapis blue with monthly payments of £281.83 over 3 yrs and GFV of £14.600, Hope to have by the end of November.
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whole load on the vw used for 26k. Go on orange wheels and you can get a new one (okay bog standard spec) for 27k!!! its just bonkers doesn't make sense the used prices atm. From my view anyhow! :rolleyes:
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whole load on the vw used for 26k. Go on orange wheels and you can get a new one (okay bog standard spec) for 27k!!! its just bonkers doesn't make sense the used prices atm. From my view anyhow! :rolleyes:
Only £1k more, but what price do you put on that wait for a new one? It's worth the wait, and not everyone knows the kind of discounts can be had on a new one - many people think they've scored with free GAP insurance and a full tank of fuel. Compared to RRP, a £26k 1 year old example looks like a bargain.
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The second issue is the GFV on the R. My GTD at list price of £25.5k had a GFV of £12.5k. I'm being offered an R at a list of roughly £31k with a GFV of £12.5k - is this a result of all the leases out there? Have VW completely lost confidence in the R holding value over the next 3 years?
What Spec R are you looking at?
That GFV is low especially if its over 3 years like you mentioned above.
If you go on the www.vw.co.uk and spec an R you'll get a GFV figure of £15,289 on 36 months, 10,000 a year on a 5dr bog standard R costing £31,475.
That same bog standard R can be had on a brokers site like www.drivethedeal.com for £27,443 which is £4k cheaper than your dealer. But going this route would mean you would have to sell your current car yourself but this just might be more financially viable.
Some dealers offer decent prices to buy good spec clean cars so don't rule that out.
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P3asa: I assumed it was a 4 year figure - the S3 figure was correspondingly low also.
Downside to the S3 is that anyone buying one will have to tick a few options, apart from the very nice looking leather seats and non-dynamic Xenons, a VW UP is almost as well equipped (save for the multi-function steering wheel).
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P3asa: I assumed it was a 4 year figure - the S3 figure was correspondingly low also.
I presumed it was over 3 years as he specifically states 3 years although the figures are more akin to 4 years.
"The second issue is the GFV on the R. My GTD at list price of £25.5k had a GFV of £12.5k. I'm being offered an R at a list of roughly £31k with a GFV of £12.5k - is this a result of all the leases out there? Have VW completely lost confidence in the R holding value over the next 3 years?"
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P3asa: I assumed it was a 4 year figure - the S3 figure was correspondingly low also.
I presumed it was over 3 years as he specifically states 3 years although the figures are more akin to 4 years.
"The second issue is the GFV on the R. My GTD at list price of £25.5k had a GFV of £12.5k. I'm being offered an R at a list of roughly £31k with a GFV of £12.5k - is this a result of all the leases out there? Have VW completely lost confidence in the R holding value over the next 3 years?"
I would say that VW plan to knock these cars back out at 19-22k at 3 years old (as most people like a change at 3 years) and make even more money. Same as normal really but even bigger profit margins, if anyone who has one of these with a low GFV should buy the car at the end and try and sell privately.
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Not sure where those low GFVs are coming from, on VWs own website a GFV for a 5 door manual R at 3 years old and 10k miles pa is coming in at £15289. With that in mind expect a 3 year px of £17-17.5k and a forecourt price of £21-22k if it doesn't have intergalactic mileage.
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Hi guys, I was looking at 15,000 miles on a 3 year PCP - maybe it's the mileage that's making the GFVs so low.
My VW guy has got me to £445 a month, but to do that he's advised me to sell my car privately to pay off my finance. It's doable but it's a ball ache.
Audi are somewhere in the region of £385 for the S3, giving me roughly £2k to spend on toys to match the £445 of the golf.
I'm a bit miffed about the whole thing to be honest, With the benefit of hindsight perhaps a PCP isn't the best way to go on a car that has surprisingly plummeted in value. My previous two cars (both approved used VW) were financed by personal loan, and I changed both within a year of buying them without taking a hit on outstanding finance versus value.
John
P3asa: I assumed it was a 4 year figure - the S3 figure was correspondingly low also.
I presumed it was over 3 years as he specifically states 3 years although the figures are more akin to 4 years.
"The second issue is the GFV on the R. My GTD at list price of £25.5k had a GFV of £12.5k. I'm being offered an R at a list of roughly £31k with a GFV of £12.5k - is this a result of all the leases out there? Have VW completely lost confidence in the R holding value over the next 3 years?"
I would say that VW plan to knock these cars back out at 19-22k at 3 years old (as most people like a change at 3 years) and make even more money. Same as normal really but even bigger profit margins, if anyone who has one of these with a low GFV should buy the car at the end and try and sell privately.
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Hi guys, I was looking at 15,000 miles on a 3 year PCP - maybe it's the mileage that's making the GFVs so low.
My VW guy has got me to £445 a month, but to do that he's advised me to sell my car privately to pay off my finance. It's doable but it's a ball ache.
Need a bit more detail for accuracy. Manual/auto, how many doors and how much deposit?
I take it you never looked at the VW calculator as that tells you the lowest GFV on 15k on an R over 36months is £13.5k so I don't know where he is getting his figures.
Personally I'd tell them 10k miles as the mileage only comes into play if at the end of the term you are handing the keys over and walking away. Trading it in for another VW or any other marque makes no difference. In theory they might offer you slightly less as a trade in as it has higher miles but that should even up with the cheaper monthlies.
If they are unwilling to give you a deal on a trade-in I'd definitely go via a broker.
On a 5dr manual they are giving you a discount of £4032.
With a £500 deposit I make that £448 a month which is the same as your VW guy but it all depends on how much deposit he was asking you to put down to get that?
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I'd definitely be getting a 10k miles pa PCP quote if they're wanting to knock the GFV down by £3k for having done an extra 15k miles in 3 years. Just pay the extra if it comes to it - it's 7.2p per mile, or £1080 at the end of the term - £2k saved. In reality you'll have a large chunk of your "equity" lost if/when you p/x against another VW rather than putting your hand in your pocket for that £1080.
£3k up on your GFV will save you about £73 a month You'll pay a bit more interest but £3k less capital.