GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: drisser on 20 July 2015, 13:50
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Anyone done a comparison or drive of the BMW 228i with the golf GTi ?
I was nosing around with configurators and the 228 looks to be quite a similar price / performance competitor for the GTi PP
Different kind of car I know and less practical, just wondered if anyone has driven one, the 228i seems a bit of a rare beast, only 2 on the BMW AUC website, mostly full of 220d's !
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Never driven the *28i engine but I have heard and read that it's very good indeed, but a bit of a characterless engine compared with the VW unit.
If you're looking at a new on one PCP, might well be worth just enquiring about an M235i. Due to the higher residuals, the cost difference might not be as big as you might expect.
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BMW residuals from new are very poor these days. You'll lose money hand over fist on one unless you get a 24% discount on the RRP - achievable on the higher models from the likes of "coast2coast cars".
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True indeed..
Had a call from my local BMW dealer today offering me a 330D X drive, fully loaded.. List price £43k, with all kinds of discounts and BMW finance contribution on either HP or PCP, they were offering the car at £33,500.
Did test drive one at the weekend and have to say it was stunningly quick in any gear. Am going to pop into the local VW dealer at the weekend and see what they can dig up in the system in terms of a GTi with the extra £2k deposit contribution but not holding my breath..
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True indeed..
Had a call from my local BMW dealer today offering me a 330D X drive, fully loaded.. List price £43k, with all kinds of discounts and BMW finance contribution on either HP or PCP, they were offering the car at £33,500.
Did test drive one at the weekend and have to say it was stunningly quick in any gear. Am going to pop into the local VW dealer at the weekend and see what they can dig up in the system in terms of a GTi with the extra £2k deposit contribution but not holding my breath..
I think I would be going for the 330D at that price :shocked:
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seemingly big incentives on the bigger engine ones.. was properly full specced as well, M sport + pack which has loads of kit included, professional nav, xenons etc..
If I could really make them squirm and get it nearer to 30k I could be tempted, given that would be 30% discount.. only trouble is, its a stock car there and its black with black leather which is a bit safe for my liking !!
I would say though that given I want a refined cruiser and do a fair bit of mileage, am giving it serious thought and with over 400lb ft torque it really shifts.. just don't find the 3 series that appealing to look at..
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True indeed..
Had a call from my local BMW dealer today offering me a 330D X drive, fully loaded.. List price £43k, with all kinds of discounts and BMW finance contribution on either HP or PCP, they were offering the car at £33,500.
Did test drive one at the weekend and have to say it was stunningly quick in any gear. Am going to pop into the local VW dealer at the weekend and see what they can dig up in the system in terms of a GTi with the extra £2k deposit contribution but not holding my breath..
We have a 330d sDrive M Sport in Mineral Grey with lots of toys. The Pro Nav is fantastic. It is a stunning car. The xDrive does not handle as well but has much better traction. Both really excellent cars.
If it is a choice between the BMW and the GTI, then it's a no brainer and there is no comparison: go BMW.
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I reckoned the 1500 extra for x drive was worth it given all round and winter use etc.. Though think I read the x drive doesn't have the lower m sport suspension ?
How is the economy and reliability on your 330 ? I had a 2 hour test drive and averaged 42mpg which included some flat out fun.
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I reckoned the 1500 extra for x drive was worth it given all round and winter use etc.. Though think I read the x drive doesn't have the lower m sport suspension ?
How is the economy and reliability on your 330 ? I had a 2 hour test drive and averaged 42mpg which included some flat out fun.
Regarding suspension, you are correct. The xDrive is a bit roll-y poll-y in comparison to the sDrive. But you can get AC Shnitzer springs and lower the xDrive for around £800.
Regarding economy: London town driving in heavy traffic around 35 mpg. Overall average 47 mpg.
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Agree with JBirchy - have a look at 35i variant. As an example (one I only saw after ordering my GTi - currently on the boat!) is: http://www.halliwelljones.co.uk/bmw-offers/details/bmw-1-series-m135i-sports-hatch-299-per-month
The 135i is probably more evenly matched to R than GTi.. and the Beemer has just been facelifted. I doubt it will be as good on petrol, but a mate of mine has one and it's a hoot!
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I've even read that the M*35i is very good on fuel, relative to its performance/engine size. Chris Harris stated in one of his vids he averaged 37mpg in the one he was testing (auto). for a 3 litre, straight six, that is brilliant. Even if you averaged around the 30 mark, you can't grumble with the amount of performance on tap!
Oh, and don't forget that noise!
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Personally I found the GTi PP better balanced drive than the M135i, I also found the 8 speed auto really frustrating, yet in the 330d the same gearbox is a perfect match..
Then there is the looks of the 1 series.. hmm.
I would also wager in the real world the 330d wouldn't be far off as quick as an M135i
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Think I'd be going for the 330d at that price tbh. Lovely bit of kit. They've just given it it's mid life LCI upgrade too and fitted the LED lights as standard along with a light redesign. It's a lovely car IMO, if a little conservative on the looks.
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Personally I found the GTi PP better balanced drive than the M135i, I also found the 8 speed auto really frustrating, yet in the 330d the same gearbox is a perfect match..
Then there is the looks of the 1 series.. hmm.
I would also wager in the real world the 330d wouldn't be far off as quick as an M135i
Chris Harris said the same thing in his GTI vs M135i roadtest.
If you like the torque in the 330d there's always a tuned GTD... :) Chuck on sports and sound and adaptive dampners, and in my opinion it will be more fun than a 330d in the twisties, and cost a shed load less.
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dresser:
The 330d with its 6cyl Diesel's torque is phenomenal. This engine with the 8AT is the perfect combination. Can you stretch to a 335d xDrive? That car is mentally quick and economical. Buy either car with confidence. They are both in a higher performance league to the GTD and GTI.
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dresser:
The 330d with its 6cyl Diesel's torque is phenomenal. This engine with the 8AT is the perfect combination. Can you stretch to a 335d xDrive? That car is mentally quick and economical. Buy either car with confidence. They are both in a higher performance league to the GTD and GTI.
It depends if you want to tune or not though surely? I know you could also tune the 330d but you are already looking at a car that's considerably more expensive with less equipment.
I have beaten more than one 330d in my GTD, can't really knock that for £20 tax and 50's economy on the motorway, higher spec and big savings on the pocket.
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dresser:
The 330d with its 6cyl Diesel's torque is phenomenal. This engine with the 8AT is the perfect combination. Can you stretch to a 335d xDrive? That car is mentally quick and economical. Buy either car with confidence. They are both in a higher performance league to the GTD and GTI.
It depends if you want to tune or not though surely? I know you could also tune the 330d but you are already looking at a car that's considerably more expensive with less equipment.
I have beaten more than one 330d in my GTD, can't really knock that for £20 tax and 50's economy on the motorway, higher spec and big savings on the pocket.
Is a tuned GTD genuinely faster than a standard 330d? I remember having a play with one and the gap he pulled was immense lol. I thought, no way would I catch that, even if mine was mapped - standing start or rolling.
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It depends if you want to tune or not though surely? I know you could also tune the 330d but you are already looking at a car that's considerably more expensive with less equipment.
I have beaten more than one 330d in my GTD, can't really knock that for £20 tax and 50's economy on the motorway, higher spec and big savings on the pocket.
Once you start comparing tuned versus standard then you just widen the options to anything versus anything. Its not just about performance and much as i love my GTi PP, the 330d is a better all rounder - yes its more expensive, but you get more. The choice is whether you want to spend more to get those additional attributes or not. Some will and some wont - hence we dont all drive the same car!
Ian
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Funnily enough the dealer also has a 335D X drive in stock I am guessing there will be a good deal on it..
They are really trying to sell me this Black 330 D X drive hence throwing the kitchen sink at the discount.. I do find the looks a bit boring, but there is no denying it is a good all rounder, especially with 4WD and If I could shave some more £ of the price to get it under £33k, brand new with low rate finance that would be a cracking deal, no denying that.
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Funnily enough the dealer also has a 335D X drive in stock I am guessing there will be a good deal on it..
They are really trying to sell me this Black 330 D X drive hence throwing the kitchen sink at the discount.. I do find the looks a bit boring, but there is no denying it is a good all rounder, especially with 4WD and If I could shave some more £ of the price to get it under £33k, brand new with low rate finance that would be a cracking deal, no denying that.
dont know what the dealers are like round you but the ones i tried didnt seem to be having to work too hard to shift the pre facelift pre reg stock that they hard and consequently were not interested in doing a deal - their values on my part ex were less that WBAC values too!
Ian
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Is a tuned GTD genuinely faster than a standard 330d? I remember having a play with one and the gap he pulled was immense lol. I thought, no way would I catch that, even if mine was mapped - standing start or rolling.
The 330d's vary from 240 to 260+bhp I think? 400lb ft? Tuned GTD (DTUK box in my case), is around 240bhp and 370lb ft - but it's maybe 150kg lighter?
Won't beat the rear wheel drive from the traffic lights, but once rolling it should be pretty close. Last 330d I beat was a 330d GT - which is heavier than the saloon. We left a roundabout on to a motorway at 30mph, he pulled away up to about 60 (I was in 3rd gear, so might have been closer if I was in 2nd to 50) but I still caught him and slowly passed once in 4th gear.
The one you saw could always have been tuned too, a friend had a 335D mapped, and that was pretty quick!
Once you start comparing tuned versus standard then you just widen the options to anything versus anything. Its not just about performance and much as i love my GTi PP, the 330d is a better all rounder - yes its more expensive, but you get more. The choice is whether you want to spend more to get those additional attributes or not. Some will and some wont - hence we don't all drive the same car!
Ian
True, but it seems reasonable to compare a tuned GTD/GTI to a car that costs 10k more - on a GTI forum :p I'm not saying I wouldn't have a 330 or 335, but my response was to am1w and his opinion that the 330d is in another performance league to the GTD/GTI.
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Funnily enough the dealer also has a 335D X drive in stock I am guessing there will be a good deal on it..
They are really trying to sell me this Black 330 D X drive hence throwing the kitchen sink at the discount.. I do find the looks a bit boring, but there is no denying it is a good all rounder, especially with 4WD and If I could shave some more £ of the price to get it under £33k, brand new with low rate finance that would be a cracking deal, no denying that.
dont know what the dealers are like round you but the ones i tried didnt seem to be having to work too hard to shift the pre facelift pre reg stock that they hard and consequently were not interested in doing a deal - their values on my part ex were less that WBAC values too!
Ian
Ian, guess my local dealer is a lot more helpful and keen to get me out of an Audi. They have not only offered a good deal on a stock car but basically spent a day ringing round trying to find something similar in estoril blue, to the point they have said they can get a 2wd 330d, X drive 330d, or a 320d X drive for me all with pretty much the same deal - a net £10k as near as dammit total discount from £43k down to just over £33k for the 330D's and from £38k down to £30k for a 320D. All high spec cars
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Oh and by the way none of these are pre reg - all brand new...
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Just been talking to a friend who has just chopped his lease Mk7 GTD in a year early for a BMW 330D xDrive. Said he took one out for a test drive a while back and was totally wowed by it, the GTD's days were numbered from that point on. Only spoke very briefly so not sure what kind of deal he got but knowing his frugal nature it would have to be pretty good.
He's specced Mineral Grey exterior with red upholstery, which sounds a great combination. Not sure what other options he's gone for but imagine he kept it fairly basic to keep the lease cost down, he's not one for loads of toys. He's picking it up this weekend and I will no doubt get to have a nosy around it at some point soon. It's not a car I would go for myself (too big and not a lover of saloons) but interested to see what it's like in the flesh.
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Ian, guess my local dealer is a lot more helpful and keen to get me out of an Audi. They have not only offered a good deal on a stock car but basically spent a day ringing round trying to find something similar in estoril blue, to the point they have said they can get a 2wd 330d, X drive 330d, or a 320d X drive for me all with pretty much the same deal - a net £10k as near as dammit total discount from £43k down to just over £33k for the 330D's and from £38k down to £30k for a 320D. All high spec cars
Glad to hear it, I was so hacked off with my dealer (we already have two Minis from them!) that I went and bought an A6 instead - 3.0 TDi Quattro. Not as sporty as the 3 series but a better cruiser (which was more my priority) and better monthly cost.....
Good luck with your search. I wouldnt want a black car either - we already have one and thats enough!
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Just been talking to a friend who has just chopped his lease Mk7 GTD in a year early for a BMW 330D xDrive. Said he took one out for a test drive a while back and was totally wowed by it, the GTD's days were numbered from that point on. Only spoke very briefly so not sure what kind of deal he got but knowing his frugal nature it would have to be pretty good.
He's specced Mineral Grey exterior with red upholstery, which sounds a great combination. Not sure what other options he's gone for but imagine he kept it fairly basic to keep the lease cost down, he's not one for loads of toys. He's picking it up this weekend and I will no doubt get to have a nosy around it at some point soon. It's not a car I would go for myself (too big and not a lover of saloons) but interested to see what it's like in the flesh.
Interesting he did that.. I must admit, when I first put my foot down I was like.. whoooaah that is quick, and with the 8 speed auto, its totally seemless power. All the cars I have looked at have the M sport + pack, prof nav and heated seats as a minimum, all estoril blue with either black or oyster leather.
I will be buying with a big deposit anyway so just looking at getting the lowest possible list price on a car - then BMW are also chucking in £2,250 deposit contribution on the 3 litre models on top, which brings you down to a £10k discount. Definitely a lot of car for the money and I have my fiat coupe turbo for weekend fun so really need a fast, frugal cruiser that can excite when needed - there actually arent too many of those around at reasonable price... always come back to looking at VW Golf, Audi A3, BMW 3 series... just the 3 series with that spec and engine is a lot more for your money.
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Glad you are going to join the BMW fraternity. The Bimmermost UK Forum is a fantastic place and great fun. You will enjoy this fabulous car and a fantastic forum.
Our first two 330d M Sports were Suoermans (EBII + Coral Red leather); the present one is in Mineral Grey with Coral Red leather.
Enjoy the addictive whoosh with that amazing Diesel torque when you put your foot down and leave most cars for dead!
Brilliant choice. Congratulations.
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haven't actually decided yet :laugh:
will be calling in Saturday to see if I can make the dealer really choke - If I can secure extended warranty / servicing and a bit more part ex it will be hard to say no..
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haven't actually decided yet :laugh:
will be calling in Saturday to see if I can make the dealer really choke - If I can secure extended warranty / servicing and a bit more part ex it will be hard to say no..
Have you asked for his first-born too? :whistle:
Every little helps, they can always say no when there's nothing left to give, but keep trying until you reach that point.
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Enjoy the addictive whoosh with that amazing Diesel torque when you put your foot down and leave most cars for dead!
Brilliant choice. Congratulations.
Sounds dreamy!
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haven't actually decided yet :laugh:
will be calling in Saturday to see if I can make the dealer really choke - If I can secure extended warranty / servicing and a bit more part ex it will be hard to say no..
For God's sake man, just get it and stop vacillating! You'll be getting a car with the performance of an R, but with better fuel economy. You can even rent the boot out as it is massive! What's not to want and love?
Nothing VW make compares, except 'possibly' the R. Even this does not have that premium feel like the BMW.
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BMWs feel far less premium than they used to. All mainstream cars are built to a cost these days, the accountants determine spec. The current 3 series feels no more premium inside than the MK7 Golf, the 1 series interior is on a par with Honda/Toyota in terms of materials used, falling behind the equivalent VW and Audi offerings. Audi is king of mainstream car interiors and has been a fair while.
What you will get from the BMW is a nice comfortable cruiser with excellent in-gear acceleration that doesn't require you to milk every last drop from the revs like the R does. That makes it a completely different car to drive. Given the 2 cars, you'd likely rather be in the BMW sat on the motorway for a 350 mile journey, but rather be in the R everywhere else. Apples and oranges.
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I have to disagree about interior and general quality. I have had more issues with Audi's than BMW's over the years. My 3 year old A3 just had an alternator failure despite being an AUC. It rattles way more than my 14 year old e46 330ci. I think modern BMW's have just as good an interior and better or equal tech than VAG cars. My 1997 year old Fiat coupe has (genuinely) been more reliable than any modern car I have owned (and on this subject, how much have cars REALLY moved on in 17 years - it does 0-100 in 14.5 seconds which is still GTI PP beating these days)
I do agree that across the board quality has come down over the years - my 330ci feels more sold than most modern cars but all manufacturers have gone that way.
I think its hard to compare the Golf R to the 330d TBH, very different segment - however the closesness on price makes them comparable for other reasons I guess.
For me I need my daily driver to do all things - reasonable economy, space, quality, ideally 4wd to cover the winter time. I have pondered a Golf R many times but at that price I just don't like 4 cylinders and artificial engine noise, no matter how much power it puts out and in my experience BMW engines, like for like are way more efficient than VAG. An R is a very different drive for sure despite probably comparable real world driving performance.
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A BMW from 14 years ago would've been far better built than a current VW or BMW - back then they were were still considered a properly premium car (too good for the likes of the police and reps) and were the proverbial tank. I wouldn't compare a BMW from 14 years ago to a new VW/Audi or BMW.
I definitely prefer the MK7 interior to that of the 3 series (not by much), the current A3 is a small step up again. There's not a massive gap either way - they're all well above average.
Reliability wise, BMWs (and VAGs) are pretty average these days, you don't buy German for supreme reliability now, and the electrics/electronics are the achilles heel of all modern cars (some have crap mechanicals too). That being said, once any niggles have been sorted under warranty, i'd expect a VAG TDI or BMW D unit to be good for 250k miles, German cars generally look newer for longer, but that may be because they hold their value and are therefore an expensive purchase for all, so they get looked after.
They feel more solid (until we've started thinning the bodywork for "weight savings"), use the most up to date tech, and manage to squeeze power and (relative) economy out in a way the Japs don't quite manage and the French/American makes can only dream of (Ford have only just managed to squeeze as much power out of a 2L diesel unit as BMW and VAG have been doing a long while).
There's no way my wife would get behind the wheel of a 3 series, it's just too big for her. If she was never going to drive my car and I wanted a motorway miler, i'd have a 335D X-drive with big discount.
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there are some cracking lease deals on 4 series gran coupes at the moment which is where I have been looking of late as a far better looking and hatch
228 is probably a superb car that gets lost in the phlethora of the other models so an odd ball come residual time
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there are some cracking lease deals on 4 series gran coupes at the moment which is where I have been looking of late as a far better looking and hatch
228 is probably a superb car that gets lost in the phlethora of the other models so an odd ball come residual time
When I looked into a BMW when the wait for the R was starting to look ridiculous, there was nowhere near the level of discount that could be seen on the 330/335/530/535, it was 10-12% rather than 24%. That level of discount took it out of contention straight away. You need 24% off a BMW to take the edge of the residuals which are quite poor for a German car.
24% off a BMW 430 M Sport might've lured me away from my R order.
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It's interesting to see what people consider as comparisons. I wouldn't expect to see a magazine test between a hatch and a saloon as they're not comparable. A 3 series I don't see in the same sphere as any Golf as the VW is a hatch. A Passat is surely the comparable VW for a small exec saloon.
I'm currently changing from a 5 series BMW to a new Golf GTI PP as I need to carry bikes, therefore a saloon isn't upto the job. And I have to differ with some of the opinions above, the interior quality of my 5 series is not as good as the Scirocco I had before it.
The 1 series is surely the comparator for the GTI, as it's a hatch. `i'm sure the M135i is a great car, and compares to the R, but I'm afraid looks alone would keep me away.
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For God's sake man, just get it and stop vacillating! You'll be getting a car with the performance of an R, but with better fuel economy. You can even rent the boot out as it is massive! What's not to want and love?
Nothing VW make compares, except 'possibly' the R. Even this does not have that premium feel like the BMW.
Golf R - 0-60 4.9 seconds
BMW 330d - 0-60 5.6 seconds
So not the performance of an R then. Close, but not in the same league. And I'm no VW fan boy, the 330d is a great car - I'm just saying.
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For God's sake man, just get it and stop vacillating! You'll be getting a car with the performance of an R, but with better fuel economy. You can even rent the boot out as it is massive! What's not to want and love?
Nothing VW make compares, except 'possibly' the R. Even this does not have that premium feel like the BMW.
Golf R - 0-60 4.9 seconds
BMW 330d - 0-60 5.6 seconds
So not the performance of an R then. Close, but not in the same league. And I'm no VW fan boy, the 330d is a great car - I'm just saying.
It's possibly compensated Mark by the increase in torque in the Beemer 413lb versus 380 in the R
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It's possibly compensated Mark by the increase in torque in the Beemer 413lb versus 380 in the R
Possibly, but I've had quite a few 330d's try it on and I've left them for dead! :wink:
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The BMW just looks heavy and flabby from side-on. And it is really heavy. In the rear view mirror it just looks like another BMW that you know will be in front of you in a few minutes, given that the highway code and good manners don't seem to apply (I am a bit old and try to be courteous on the road). Quoted acceleration figures don't seem right given the power to weight. Maybe rwd gives a significant advantage in the first few mph that makes all the difference? The six really is a superb engine though, but for me the image made the decision difficult. The Golf is more versatile, certainly as fast as the 228 and has a friendlier road image.
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The trouble with all BMW's are that they all look the same, both inside and out, unless you really know what you're looking for (number of exhausts, external trim, badge etc etc).
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For God's sake man, just get it and stop vacillating! You'll be getting a car with the performance of an R, but with better fuel economy. You can even rent the boot out as it is massive! What's not to want and love?
Nothing VW make compares, except 'possibly' the R. Even this does not have that premium feel like the BMW.
Golf R - 0-60 4.9 seconds
BMW 330d - 0-60 5.6 seconds
So not the performance of an R then. Close, but not in the same league. And I'm no VW fan boy, the 330d is a great car - I'm just saying.
It's possibly compensated Mark by the increase in torque in the Beemer 413lb versus 380 in the R
The 8 speed gearbox will have helped too.
As for progress since a Fiat Coupe 20v? C02 emmisions 240 g/km. The GTI PP is 148 g/km. So the vehicle has been made less polluting/more economic with more power as a result of tighter emmisons regs. It's also a little faster 0-100, but that is splitting hairs over 10 hp difference.
Also there must be a marked difference in ICE and driver aids. Its a pre NCAP rating car so I would take a guess in the GTI being quite a bit safer.
Driver enjoyment is subjective so it could argued the older cars had more character.