GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: GeordieSPG on 28 May 2015, 14:28
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How do I respond to this?
"Sorry that you have had to cancel your GTI order, I know you were really looking forward to your new car. I know when we originally spoke that we had to wait to order you the car to make sure the 16 chassis spec was applied to your order, this is why a confirmed build week as taken a little longer to come through.
Unfortunately as we have ordered you a car the deposit is non-refundable, as we now have to cancel this with Volkswagen and we are charged by them to do this. However, if you do order a new car from us in the next 12 months we will transfer this to your new order."
Certainly won't be going back there if this is the attitude.
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Lying sods. Bet they have not cancelled the order. Just removed your name. Ask them to show proof of cancellation with VW UK for which charges have been levied by VW UK.
How much was the deposit and why did you cancel?
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£400 deposit. So not life changing.
Reason was due to a) complete shambles by VW and their configurator and b) personal circumstances.
It's still stage 2 (or was when they had my cancellation email) with no build date.
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There are various threads on this - and this is an utter lie of the highest order. You can get your deposit back at any time. It's basically thieving. It's your money and it's 100% refundable.
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Get on to VW UK yourself and report it to them. Shouldn't be a problem getting your money back. Idiots!
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I think it has been cancelled as it doesn't show up on tracker anymore.
Not sure if that impacts my case?
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I think it has been cancelled as it doesn't show up on tracker anymore.
Not sure if that impacts my case?
It is the principle and the money.
They have probably given it to someone else or turned it into a stock car. Thus your name has been removed and it is early enough for the order for them to do so. But the ins and outs of what they have done or not done matters not a jot. The HAVE to return your deposit and this is your legal right. Complain to VW UK, though they will do sod all to get your deposit returned. Threaten the dealer with legal action, but before you do so speak to the Dealer Principal and of course to useless VW UK.
Disgusting dealership. Name and shame, please.
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If it's against the rules, then someone can delete it.
Benfield Silverlink. I'll continue to push them on the matter. May tweet VW UK.
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Let me get this right you cancelled after a month because they hadnt given you a build date? You only get confirmation of this 4 weeks before.
I had to wait 7 weeks to get a build date.
Fight them for your deposit though. They will just charge the next person a deposit as well and make a small bit of cash out of it. I bet they do this all the time and nobody has stood up to them. they sound like the Mike Ashley of the car dealer world.
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I didn't cancel due to build week.
I've asked for evidence that it's cost them the £400. If they can provide it, I'll write it off. If not, I'll continue to chase.
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This might be worth a read GeordieSPG
http://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/bought-a-car-and-changed-my-mind/
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I didn't cancel due to build week.
I've asked for evidence that it's cost them the £400. If they can provide it, I'll write it off. If not, I'll continue to chase.
They are at it. I am leasing mine and had to put £100 down for the dealer to order it. This will be returned to me when i pickup the car.
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Read the order form / contract you've signed. It's what's in there that counts, not what strangers on the internet tell you!
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If VW AG haven't locked the order for build (stage 3), then the order is fully reversible and the dealership can cancel the order without penalty to themselves, and so should not be penalising you. If you paid the deposit on a credit card then I suggest you contact them for advice. Explain that this was an order that is not even confirmed for build week yet, that they haven't provided a firm build week. They will be able to make a charge back for you within 2 months of payment (this should be a last resort).
Speak to VW UK on twitter or their facebook page - they don't like their dirty linen aired publicly.
At this stage you've cost a salesman perhaps an hour of their time and nothing more.
Sliverlink Benfield...unsurprising. They damaged my car once when it was in for service and someone at Scotswood Road branch took my new GTD out for a 29 mile thrashing on their lunchbreak where they achieved 20mpg for the trip. Sheisters.
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Not sure what you're trying to discuss here, you have signed a contract and if you have done that in person (i.e. not distance selling) you have no cooling off period.
If you then cancel you are in breach of contract in theory and I'm sure the contract you signed will say that the deposit is not refundable. Legally speaking it does not matter what costs the dealer has (not) incurred, even if they have only taken your name off order (they will still have cost attached to your order even if they manage to sell to someone else - usually at a just marginally reduced price).
Where this may not seem fair to you if you went to court I am unsure of your chances; if the dealer does refund you money outside court it's to do with good will and not what they legally might be entitled to.
I would suggest that you carefully read the wording in your contract, though I suspect this to be fairly water tight unless it states something along the lines that it will only come to conclusion if or once build week is confirmed, though it may possibly still be worded in a way that deposit is not refundable but you don't have to buy car.
I think TH91's link sums it up pretty well.
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It could be argued that before VW AG has locked in a build date, the contract isn't rock solid, especially if the contract as drawn up has a date of fulfillment (delivery) that cannot be assured. Unlike most car manufacturers that have a short lead time before building (typically 6 to 8 weeks), the dealership will be waiting an age for VW AG to finally confirm your build week. My contract states fulfillment by the end of March 15, so mine's been breached, but what are you going to do when you know the car will come (eventually) and your p/x is fixed?
Whatever the legal fine details are (a contract for something you ordered face to face, that is available almost immediately, or at least with a reliable fulfillment date is solid), i've never known anyone here on the other forum duck out of their order because of the extended lead times and not get their deposit back.
They don't seem to be going out of their way to encourage return business by screwing you when they've not lost out at this point. Always be polite when asking (it always helps keep things smooth and stops them going out of their way to inconvenience you), but it might be time to publicly ask VWUK via their facebook page if they can intervene as you cancelled your order due to lack of faith that they could deliver within your expected timeframe. Be polite, but make it clear that the order hasn't progressed past stage 2.
So why are you cancelling (just asking to understand your situation better)?
You realised that you could get more off the car elsewhere?
Lack of info from the dealership or lack of faith for lead times?
Change of mind for the car, either you don't want a new one or you don't want a VW any more?
Something else?
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People on forums seem to get very shirty (nature of the beast, I suppose).
I did sign a contract. I walked away due to multiple reasons (
Personal - change of circumstances
Spec - VW UK couldn't confirm the spec of the car I'd be getting due to various SNAFU with the configurator and late released pricing update
Delivery - I didn't believe that VW could deliver within the prescribed 13 week suggested by the dealer - this was from research elsewhere)
I've made it clear that the £400 isn't the end of the world. I'm not going to camp outside Benfield Silverlink and burn the sales manager in effigy. But it is a little frustrating that they can't/won't, issue a refund as an act of good will.
Unless they have a change of mind on the deposit, it's highly unlikely that I'll use Benfield again in the future for any purchases or servicing. I'm sure they won't lose any sleep over it.
I asked how I should respond to the email.
- Swallow it and move on
- Ask again for an act of good will
- Kick up a stink - It appears that I have no legal footing, so probably won't achieve much.
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Read the order form / contract you've signed. It's what's in there that counts, not what strangers on the internet tell you!
Surely that's the whole point of a forum - to get information from others that have had the same experience??
And therefore (having been through it multiple times) I can tell you, and the OP, that he is 100% entitled to his deposit. It's as simple as that.
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From a dealers perspective we have a limited number of orders we can cancel/de tag. Once we reach that limit we then get charged £500 for every de-tag / cancellation.
This is to basically stop dealers stealing what's called mandatory stock. Mandatory stock are cars that are just freely available but you must tag it up to a customer for it to make its way to you. This stops dealers hoarding stock and free's cars up for customers nationally. It also stops dealers spoof ordering cars in customers names and then de-tagging them and then selling them to someone else.
Like what was said earlier it sounds like you have broken your part of the contract so you will have to surrender the deposit placed. I guess if you continued and the car did not arrive on time then they have equally broke there part of the contract and you would be free to cancel and get your deposit back?
From my perspective keeping a customers deposit rarely achieves anything. Of course there are exceptions such as when something especially hard to sell has been ordered such as a viper green scirocco / red Eos / petrol Tiguan etc. You know you are going to be stuck with that in your stock for months and months and then forced to register it as a demo which you will loose money on. So keeping that deposit will help with the loss you will incur.
Lee
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In any situation when you order a car and then cancel the dealer will have the option of refunding your deposit; it probably won't state this in the contract but it's something they can choose to do.
Whether or not you are entitled to a refund will, as I've already said, be dependent on what is in the contract. There will normally be wriggle room in the contract for the dealer about delivery dates (which are often outside of the dealer's control) but less room for the customer to back out. If I was a dealer then this is exactly how I'd want my contracts to be worded.
In terms of a way forward I'd be explaining very clearly why you've cancelled your order and asking for the deposit back as a gesture of goodwill. I'd be stressing that you're keen to maintain a good relationship with them and that providing you with a refund increases the likelihood of you purchasing a car from them in the future.
If the above doesn't work then you can try escalating it to VW, via social media etc but I'm not sure how successful you'll be. Fingers crossed though that you won't need to find out.
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This situation isn't straight forward but most dealers will refund on the basis that they'd like to see you in the future. There's a bunch of government help sites with details of what the law does doesn't say.
If you were wanting finance and you haven't signed the agreement yet (we didn't do ours until the car was at the dealer and almost ready) see this link and plenty others out there on t'internet, might help you out:
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?342821-Section-57-CCA-Car-dealer-refusing-to-cancel-refund-deposit
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They are obliged to hand back your deposit. The contract was for the supply of a vehicle and the vehicle has not been supplied so the contract can be cancelled.
I have done this myself several times.
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They are obliged to hand back your deposit. The contract was for the supply of a vehicle and the vehicle has not been supplied so the contract can be cancelled.
I have done this myself several times.
No they're not. By your argument a party can break a contract without penalty before the other has had the opportunity to deliver the goods or services ordered. If what you're suggesting was true (which it isn't) then most contracts would be breakable before completion - which they're not. Contracts are legally obliging agreements with terms - it's why they exist. The terms of the contract are what the OP needs to check in order to establish where they stand. What you or anyone else has previosuly done is irrelevant.
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Sorry you are incorrect in this context - the deposit cannot be retained unless the car has been supplied - simple as that!
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When did you order the car and what delivery date did they put on the sales invoice out of interest
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Sorry you are incorrect in this context - the deposit cannot be retained unless the car has been supplied - simple as that!
No I'm not. I've no idea what legal basis you think your argument is based on but I'm gong to say this once more. The only thing that matters are the terms of the contract. The only legal grounds for having the deposit returned are likely to be:
1) The contract states that it is refundable should the purchaser back out.
2) The contract stated a fixed delivery date which has not been met and there are no terms in the contract that allows reasonable delays outside of the dealer's control.
Contract law also allows buyers to claim compensation if there is a delay in delivery and the scheduled time of delivery was essential (which in this context is a legal term).
By your argument a customer can order a car which is built to their spec and then walk away without penalty the day before the scheduled delivery date. Which is not the case unless allowed by the contract.
One simple way for the OP to get a definitive answer is to contact Citizens Advice and then post back here.
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My missus works for Trading Standards and here's her reply.....
In short NO you are NOT entitled to your deposit back UNLESS the terms and conditions state otherwise.
By changing your mind you have breached the contract
It's down to the discretion of the dealer to refund your deposit.
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By your argument a customer can order a car which is built to their spec and then walk away without penalty the day before the scheduled delivery date. Which is not the case unless allowed by the contract.
No - I am talking about the stage before the car is built.
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By your argument a customer can order a car which is built to their spec and then walk away without penalty the day before the scheduled delivery date. Which is not the case unless allowed by the contract.
No - I am talking about the stage before the car is built.
My reply still stands
The key here though is what is ACTUALLY written in the terms and conditions of the contract
Dig out your magnifying glass and UV lights :laugh:
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By your argument a customer can order a car which is built to their spec and then walk away without penalty the day before the scheduled delivery date. Which is not the case unless allowed by the contract.
No - I am talking about the stage before the car is built.
There is no aspect of Contract Law in which it is relevant as to whether or not a vehicle (or other goods which are the subject of the contract) has been built. As Rhyso (and I) have stated, all that matters is what is in the contract.
Let's look at it the other way round. What is the legal basis for the OP being able to breach the contract and ask for their money back?
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I am talking about the real world not 'contract law theory'. No VW dealer keeps a deposit for an early cancelled order - they just dont do it. The order just gets changed to the specs for the next Golf order (which probably comes in the next day) and you get your deposit back.
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I am talking about the real world not 'contract law theory'. No VW dealer keeps a deposit for an early cancelled order - they just dont do it. The order just gets changed to the specs for the next Golf order (which probably comes in the next day) and you get your deposit back.
Maybe they're playing to rule (absolute terms of the letter of the law) because money is tight right now.
On pick-up of my R from Pulman yesterday, they were essentially operating from a very large gazebo as the dealership is undergoing a £500k refit on VW's orders. He said that all the dealerships worldwide were having to do this and pay for it themselves and 32 dealerships in the country have stopped being VW dealers because they haven't got the volume to cover that kind of expense.
Benfield Silverlink (where GeordieSPG had placed his deposit) have just finished their refit - perhaps they're clawing back every penny they can as a result of it?
I've always found Silverlink very tight when negotiating. When I was a Benfield customer, I got far better discounts and p/x values at their Scotswood road branch.
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I am talking about the real world not 'contract law theory'. No VW dealer keeps a deposit for an early cancelled order - they just dont do it. The order just gets changed to the specs for the next Golf order (which probably comes in the next day) and you get your deposit back.
The whole point of this thread has always been whether or not the OP is entitled to a refund. This is entirely dependent on the contents of the contract and contract law in general (there's no such thing as contract law theory). As I and others have said the dealership does of course have the discretion to issue a refund.
I'm also not quite sure how you can say 'No VW dealer keeps a deposit for an early cancelled order'. The OP's dealer has. Hence this thread.
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I'll be at the dealers discretion.
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Had final confirmation today that Benfield Silverlink refused a refund. This was handled through VW UK who couldn't convince them that it was the "decent" thing to do. Nevermind. Lesson learned!
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The lesson is done ever go back and tell anyone who will listen how crap they are. I'd be on Twitter shaming them as it's not really a good way to do business.
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Nothing less than robbery :angry:
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I bet the deposit ended up in the managers back pocket.
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I wasn't told when they took the deposit from my card that it was non-refundable. It may be in the contract (to be honest, I haven't read it).
I do feel robbed, but also feel partially responsible. I DID change my mind due to my circumstances.
It's a terrible way to do business though. They have zero chance of any business in the future (across any of their brand lines).
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Feel for ya mate. And it's very, very short sighted of that particular dealership. Is it really worth robbing and p*ssing a customer off that badly, and risk all that negative publicity (I hope you shame them on social media), just to pocket a few hundred quid. Is it heck! I hate to hear of such poor business practices. It could all have been so easily avoided. Sounds to me like the manager dug his heels in out of principle and to hell with the consequences. Even if you did miss the small print it's still shocking.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Better luck next time.
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I'm sorry to hear this GeordieSPG. I wish I had read this thread earlier and told you what I wrote to a dealer that wouldn't refund me either. It worked, when I emailed the manager directly. Even though I have to say your dealer sounds like a right c**t.
Dear Sir,
I would understand you withholding my deposit if the car was in the process of being built. But the car hasn't even been given a build week. I don't see how keeping my deposit is necessary or even ethical for that matter? What loss has there been to your dealership in this matter?
I am surprised that you have not taken my personal circumstances into account and as big as a dealership network xxxxx is, I cannot see how it is fair to keep the £500 for just entering an order onto a computerised system?
Please understand, that I am fully aware of my rights, regardless of what order form I signed, it is unlawful to keep my deposit considering my order is just 'processing' right now.
Therefore, I hope that you will do the right thing and return my deposit. If you do not I will have no alternative but to pursue this matter with the office of fair trading.
My redress will be on the following premise:
As a buyer I do have protection under Schedule 2, Regulation 1(d) of the
Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. It states that if the contract
has been cancelled after a deposit has been placed you are entitled to have the deposit
returned in full, unless the seller has spent time, effort and money, in which case
they can deduct reasonable expenses. Even if some expenses have been incurred, if
these are subsequently recovered, for example by selling the item to someone else,
the deposit should still be returned in full. It follows that a blanket non-refundable
clause that entitles the seller to keep the deposit in all circumstances is most likely
going to be unfair and unlawful.
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The OP should be taking the dealer to the small claims court over this.
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I probably should...but in the grand scheme of things, it's fairly insignificant compared to other things happening in my life at the moment.
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I probably should...but in the grand scheme of things, it's fairly insignificant compared to other things happening in my life at the moment.
Worth modifying the letter above and sending it recorded delivery if you get a chance. I pestered the hell out of TUI to get a flight delay compensation that they tried to brush off over a period of 2 years.
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So, today I get an email from VW saying my "Manual non PP GTI" with the same order number as my "DSG PP GTI". Sounds like VW/Benfield have resold my order.
Reckon it puts me in a stronger position to push for deposit return?
3rd June 2015
(http://i57.tinypic.com/23rr7ti.jpg)
12th August 2015
(http://i60.tinypic.com/axe4p1.jpg)
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I'd go back to them and ask for the deposit back again certainly. They can no longer claim any financial loss or expense so you need to be asking on what basis they are withholding the money - "because it's a deposit and you cancelled" is not good enough :rolleyes:
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Your right to a full or partial deposit refund is entirely dependent on the written contract between you and the dealer, everything else is just conjecture.
You need to fully understand your contract and compare the terms with those listed here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/284426/oft311.pdf
Even if the T&Cs are unimpeachable I think it is unlikely that the dealer will be able to demonstrate that he has incurred £500 of expenses in amending your order.
Good luck and don't be put off by the dealer's bluster.