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General => General discussion => Topic started by: Waspy on 21 February 2015, 21:09
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I'll try and keep this short ish. 18 left sixth form with reasonable A levels in Maths, Business and IT, took a year to enjoy myself, road trip around america etc etc etc. Got home without a clue what I wanted to do, knowing that uni was a waste at the time as any course chosen would have been a stab in the dark. So I sold my soul to the highest bidder. Who was a large accountancy firm, who I am now training with. And boy, I struggle to see how I could hate something more. It's a 5 year training contact split into two parts. I am locked into them, my only opportunity to leave is after the two year midway point (without incurring huge fees anyway). That 2 year mark is coming up in September. I have taken some good points from the roll. A) I don't want to be an accountant. B) I care a lot more about the actual job than the money I take home each month.
I have always had an interest and passion for car, so I don't know why I didn't see it 2 years ago, but anyway, recently i have been considering something in the automotive industry. Motorsport, development, tuning, along those lines. Being a general mechanic doesn't really appeal. But anyway that brings me onto the actual question.
I could go to uni (I'm 21 now) and do automotive engineering (or similar), get loads of debt (4 year course), come out and hopefully get a job in my chosen field. But is that the best way? I've had a look and it's not like there are any apprenticeships. Which makes me wonder how anyone actually gets into it. The dream would be to work for myself, but since I need to train first, that's off the cards for now haha.
My head is in a mess. I am aware that my hatred for my current job may be clouding my judgement. Any input welcome.
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stick at what you are doing maybe do a evening coarse on what your interested in :smiley:
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stick at what you are doing maybe do a evening coarse on what your interested in :smiley:
This is something I have considered. Issues being that once I re-sign with my current employer in September I am trapped for another 3 years. And that's no something j am comfortable with. Leaving, getting a less intense, more work life balance friendly job, and then do night classes might be an option though.
Thanks for the reply :) I'm really struggling with what to do atm haha
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and after the 3 years you can go anywhere you want and still be young enough to try something else :smiley:
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It's really hard for me to put into words how unhappy the job I'm in makes me. It is an option to stay. And at the end of it I have a qualification (providing I pass the exams) which has outrageous average salaries (also outrageous suicide rates, just as a little side point), and yet I would still have a more enjoyable life stacking shelves in ASDA, if nothing else because it would give me some free time!
I am almost certain I will leave come September. It's just what I will replace it with that I'm struggling with.
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and after the 3 years you can go anywhere you want and still be young enough to try something else :smiley:
This.
If you finish the training you can apply it to something else. If you quit your next adventure you are a few more years on with nothing to show. Then there are women and babies and other things to fck you up......
I did HNC/HND in engineering/automotive, I build crazy stuff with robots and trick mechanisms it pays very well but I still wish I was a tree surgeon sometimes lol
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But by the same argument after 3 years I will just have a useless qualification that I won't use. There is also the possibility of be getting to year 4, failing an exam and losing the last 4 years.
After 2 years I still get a qualification. I would still be a qualified accountant.
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I can sympathise with your frustration at being locked into a training programme that is not exactly floating your boat, but agree with what's been said already. Better to stick with it, complete your training, then reevaluate your options towards the end of the term. If nothing else, it will show prospective employers or colleges that you can commit and apply yourself to something and see it through and recognise it's value in the longer term, as opposed to just flitting about when the going gets tough. That counts for quite a lot and all the while you are gaining valuable work experience which will be transferable in other ways. You are very young so you have time on your side. :smiley:
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Additionally if you get fully qualified, you could do freelance accountancy to support yourself, pay bills etc whilst you pursue something else a few years down the line, be that at at uni /apprenticeship or similar.
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Just to clarify. I have a contract which lasts 2 years. Then an extension which lasts three years. My current plan is just to no sign the extension. I don't see what the further 3 years adds. Other than an extra qualification that I may, or may not gain. I won't be using it regardless. I made a mistake in choosing the wrong path once and I'm paying for it pretty hard.
EDIT: I am qualified to do freelance type accountancy come September.
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But by the same argument after 3 years I will just have a useless qualification that I won't use. There is also the possibility of be getting to year 4, failing an exam and losing the last 4 years.
After 2 years I still get a qualification. I would still be a qualified accountant.
Its a qualification you can put to something else, would help massively if you had your own business....
If you are failing anyway that's a different story, it maybe time to get out.
Now don't take this the wrong way but are you any good at Engineering? to get anywhere you need practical skills as well as maths and CAD etc.
What are you really good at, what comes easiest to you?
Be sure :smiley:
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Being a chartered accountant is really over qualified for almost every practical application in business. Unless I wanted to be a Financial director it's not needed. All of the practical actual accounting stuff is learnt at AAT level. Which I will have in September. That over qualification does entitle you to three times the salary, but that's by the by.
As for the "are you any good" question, the answer simply is I don't know. I would have to learn before I could answer that question. And it's there that lies the problem. I am not looking for some crazy fast track route where I'm building race engines tomorrow, im trying to establish what the bottom rung of the ladder is, or the best rung to put my foot on :undecided:
I arrived in my current role through desperation. My head was full of "what on earth am I going to do with my life" so I followed the money and ended up in finance. Now I have a second chance to try again I am trying to be a little more structured with where I head. So this time it's more like "I like cars, how do I get a job working with cars?" And as such, this thread is born.
Thanks for the responses guys. Appreciate it :)
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Life is way too short to waste doing something dull. If you change path/jump ship to do something else make sure it is going to be proactive and worth while. By the sounds of it you are trying to convince yourself for a clear conscience but it takes courage to make big changes.
Just be sure you won't regret it. Grass is always greener and all.
Pointless just being alive for the weekend though.
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Thanks for the reply. I'm not really trying to justify leaving, I don't have to, the job is having an impact on my wellbeing and for me that's enough of a get out warning for me. Anyone with a bit of time on their hand who fancies seeing what others say about my job, just google "I hate audit" and you should get the jist :grin:
But that's why I'm here, I know I am going to leave, but I don't want to leave into another job which sucks the life out of me. Finding that is just hard without anything to shoot for :undecided:
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This is almost like reading my life story. Went to Uni not having a clue what I wanted to do and basically stumbled into accountancy purely because my old man is an accountant. Went into public sector and got my professional qualification. Now been in the profession for 16 years and really don't get any satisfaction from it, probably the most reluctant accountant you will find. Thought the money would be good but it's not. Yes I'll make a decent living out of it but I'm never going to earn a fortune. Once I went down the path I knew I had to pursue the professional qualification as no matter what it will stand you in good sted but I so regret going down the accountancy path in the first place.
The way I see it your better being happy and earning a lesser wage than being stuck in a job you hate. It's too late for me but your still young enough to make the right choice.
My advice, complete your course and then go and do what you want to do. If it doesn't work you still have your qualification to fall back on.
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Wow great to hear from someone who has actually been where I'm at/going
The way I see it your better being happy and earning a lesser wage than being stuck in a job you hate. It's too late for me but your still young enough to make the right choice.
This is that my head is full of atm.
If I got hit by a bus tomorrow would I be happy? (Probably actually, it's monday :grin: ) but probably not. I moved away from all of my friends and all of my family to take a job I loath daily. Had I stayed back home, and taken any old job I wouldn't have a snazzy financial career, but at least my mates would be there even if the job was sh!t. I hate regret.
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Wow great to hear from someone who has actually been where I'm at/going
The way I see it your better being happy and earning a lesser wage than being stuck in a job you hate. It's too late for me but your still young enough to make the right choice.
This is that my head is full of atm.
If I got hit by a bus tomorrow would I be happy? (Probably actually, it's monday :grin: ) but probably not. I moved away from all of my friends and all of my family to take a job I loath daily. Had I stayed back home, and taken any old job I wouldn't have a snazzy financial career, but at least my mates would be there even if the job was sh!t. I hate regret.
The bottom rung of the ladder is 4/5 years to do a degree or HND in Auto sport/Automotive if you can get an entry level automotive job/apprenticeship at the same time and work up this will help no end, probably get education free....
Once you are out of Education you will need about 5 years to get experience and choose a field to excel in.
Two things:
At 40 I now need to start learning business finance, the higher you go the more about money it becomes.......
Don't base anything around your mates, only family. Your mates will go their own way soon enough
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I've been chewing my Dads ear off all day, and between sounding out on here, and sound out to my dad I think I have come to a bit of decision. So I will finish my AAT training, and get a job in another area of finance for now. This thinking behind this is:
A) There are plenty of jobs for level 4 AATs, both temp and perm
B) I should be able to hit normal 9-5 hours, rather than 70 odd per week.
C) It will give me time and money to pursue and investigate other career options
D) If, and I mean IF I want to pursue a serious career in finance, AAT to chartered is a fairly straightforward conversion and a lot of people do it.
E) It gets me out of the distructive atmosphere I'm in currently.
Thanks for all of the input for far (keep it coming). My aim was never to be an accountant. My aim is to employ one. :cool:
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1 point to make, and this is a point which stoped me going into anything car related when i was leaving school.
for me, cars are a hobby, you mix hobbies and work and somepeople loose a passion for their hobby. i didnt want this to happen so didnt go into anything car related.
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Yeah that's a point which I have considered too. I don't know what I want to do, other than not be in finance particularly. Hopefully the above plan will give me a bit of time to really think through my options.
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1 point to make, and this is a point which stoped me going into anything car related when i was leaving school.
for me, cars are a hobby, you mix hobbies and work and somepeople loose a passion for their hobby. i didnt want this to happen so didnt go into anything car related.
This is a really good point. If you do it as a day job, it may quickly lose its appeal as a hobby, maybe not but worth thinking about. I've seen this happen to a few friends.
Aside from the obvious interest in cars, is there anything else that really comes to mind? Apart from accounting, what else are you good at? You're wise to give time to really think it through as it will be much harder to change direction a second time if you choose another wrong path. Good luck :smiley:
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I have tonnes of mates who have an automotive engineering degrees, all of whom (apart from one hyper-intelligent lad with Motorsport running through his veins) are having to switch to mech eng, elec eng etc. in order to get grad jobs with people such as Rolls Royce (not cars). I have another mate, who is a little older, who is performance analyst with one of the world super-bike teams and every time I see him when he isn't travelling the world all he can talk about is looking for a way out and using his limited free time to learn skills in alternative disciplines. The Grass isn't always greener.
BUT doing something you hate for a living isn't worth any amount of money imo. Whenever I'm doubting where I'm heading or weather I'm doing it right I always remember a quote from Mickey Smith, a surf photographer and film maker, "“If I can only scrape a living, at least it will be a living worth scraping". Do something you love. Forget about the money (to a point, obv you gotta live).
So - the question is how do you make your own skill set, something that comes naturally to you, give you pleasure in life? Start thinking outside the box, you are right in thinking uni/carrying on down the same path aren't really the right options, that's why you are asking. How about transferring into commercial analysis or something similar, procurement work for companies such as jaguar landrover are always flying about - it's a start? I know I haven't really told you any specifics, but deep down you need to do what is right for you. :smiley:
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I come back to read this every now and then:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7417359.stm
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Thanks for the reply Sam! I think it's my lack of direction that is ultimately causing me problems. I'm the kind of person that if I get my teeth into something I with work and work and work until I have achieved my goal, just right now I have nothing to aim at (or certainly nothing I want to aim at). I am way to (perhaps irrationally) scared of making the wrong choice. But last time I said "Screw it, I have to do something" I ended up here. So yeah, just need time to sort my head a bit, which is something this job gives me very little.
Nice article JV. I found myself disagreeing with a few of the writers points, but equally they made some interesting ones. I ended up not being sure what to take from it haha other than this line:
"One way to bring meaning to your work is to do less of it". That paragraph rang pretty true. While I have never worked part time, during my holidays I am often forced (I'm not tied up or anything, but you know what I mean) to work, so it ends up feeling similar to part time. And knowing that tomorrow isn't going to be exactly the same as today, makes today a little more manageable.
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I can sympathise with your frustration at being locked into a training programme that is not exactly floating your boat, but agree with what's been said already. Better to stick with it, complete your training, then reevaluate your options towards the end of the term. If nothing else, it will show prospective employers or colleges that you can commit and apply yourself to something and see it through and recognise it's value in the longer term, as opposed to just flitting about when the going gets tough. That counts for quite a lot and all the while you are gaining valuable work experience which will be transferable in other ways. You are very young so you have time on your side. :smiley:
That is f**king terrible advice.
Sticking at something you hate and know you aren't going to use does not show commitment and application. It shows you lack the ambition and spine to take control of your life.
This not a 6 week summer job, it's a commitment to about 10% of his working life. That just happens to have a nice neat breaking point coming up.
Lets say he finishes after 5 years. Does he then waste half a decade and start again. No, he gets a job. Then he has a house, a wife and a baby. So he cant very well start again, so he'd better go for that promotion. 40 years later he realises he hates his job, has always hated his job and although he's been well compensated for his time he's been unhappy and his life has been a grind.
Just go back and read the original post. OP has already made his mind up and is looking for validation.
OP decide what you want to do, then go and do it. I had the same thing after my first year of university. I am a person who has always taken the safe option as I am apprehensive of change. But taking the step to change to engineering was the best decision I ever made.
Life is far too short to be doing a job you don't like. It consumes most of your waking hours.
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^^
I was partly referring to it maybe being worthwhile for the OP to carry on and complete the training programme to gain some transferable skills and get an accounting qualification that he could make use of whilst deciding what path to take next. Fair enough, I didn't realise the OP would actually be a qualified accountant by the end of year 2 till he later clarified this, which does suggest that, if the remaining years won't add any real value to what he'll have by end year 2 and he hates it THAT much, it makes sense to make the break at that point, but important to find some direction moving forward.
Commitment shouldn't be underestimated though, it's important, perhaps even more so if you want to ultimately run your own business. Even in a job you love and want to do, there will be tough periods where it's tempting to walk away, but you have to get through them and you only do that by being committed and applying yourself.
I sincerely hope the OP does find something he enjoys, that leads to a fulfilling career.
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Lets say he finishes after 5 years. Does he then waste half a decade and start again. No, he gets a job. Then he has a house, a wife and a baby. So he cant very well start again, so he'd better go for that promotion. 40 years later he realises he hates his job, has always hated his job and although he's been well compensated for his time he's been unhappy and his life has been a grind.
This has pretty much been my thinking/concern from the start. I'm already concerned that I will get drawn in by the huge raise they will give/offer me this September, and then where does it stop? Five years? Ten? I also agree with the majority of the rest of your post. Most of my thoughts put down in a single post.
Still, I appreciate all the time you guys are taking to give such thoughtful responses. It really is helping me to make my mind up.
EDIT: @booth, the extra 3 years are pretty much vital if you want a career in finance, but ultimately is just a peice of paper. All the real skills are learned in the first 2 years. With the 2 year qualification I will have access to plenty of jobs to keep me going. And I do see the point about commitment, but equally when do you stop the commitment? Like Chris said, after 50 years do you look back feeling proud to have committed to something you hated? Lots of people commit to things blindly for the sake of commitment (broken marriages?).
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LOL you are so caught up worrying about the future?
FK that my kids are young reality I will pay for there degrees can they afford it NO, can they afford a mortgage NO?
Do I still think education is a good thing yes!
My father sat me down at 10 years of age his words are you are in a foreign country where its more likely you will not be picked for employment in a sea of applicants.
What seperates you from them?
Education is what makes you unique!
I've said to other people in your situation that
I don't care if you get a second class or third class degree, the difference is that you have gained IQ points over three years of education over someone who has hardly any thats the difference of someone leaving uni with only 25% or 50% knowledge with them.
Education is previlage these days and not a right things have moved on and if you can place a price on education i.e debt you have lost the battle already!
I'm sick of hearing I only do this for money, wage packet & bills!
The way I see it, you have more options than most, rather than two singlar problems of "I hate my job" "I don't want to be in debt"
Sound harsh? Tough titty life is tough! :tongue:
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I don't think I ever said I don't want to be in debt. It is an advantage, but certainly not a deciding factor. I didn't want to go to uni because I felt it was a waste of TIME, not money. Time is far more valuable in my opinion. One can measure how much money they have left. Very few people can measure how much time they have left.
I also disagree with you on the degree point. Degrees have become MASSIVLY devalued, ever since labour said 50% of people should have one. Education makes nobody unique. The tables have turned since you were 10. Now experience is what gets you noticed. Still, that wouldn't put me off a degree. Not knowing what degree to do would/did put me off a degree. Blindly going and getting degree is madness if its in a subject which is of no interest to you.
Speaking to the decision makers at my firm, they have said they hugely prefer school leavers (those without degrees) to graduates, because they can be trained exactly how they want, are typically more driven (in their experience), and the degree adds no value to the roll. And that's coming from one of the top accounting firms globally.
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They would say that so they don't have to pay you what you are worth! Accounting firms (bean counters)
So sea of people looking for jobs so compertion is a mass and uniqueness will determine the selection right?
10 people five have degrees 3 have relevant degrees I'm looking at either 3 to 4 candidates 4th being the long shot who is actually fallen through the net and is super intellegent because he didnt have an formal education he is unique!
Waste of time or money its the same thing.
The degree you go into is YOUR choice whether it interests YOU is irelavant to me.
Problems? I see more options for you, macronise the decision process DECIDE what you want to learn and it will fit into place!
I'm not being condesending here, but hey I'm proud by just you considering an education against the mass of a people who think a degree means jack sh!t.
Don't take my blunt posting as a negative as all I have done is show you a different way of thinking?
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That kind of makes no sense "we prefer you, so we will pay you less", not how it works, our pay very quickly aligns with a graduate.
10 candidates. 3 have relevant degrees, 2 have irrelevant degrees, 2 have irrelevant experience, 3 have relevant experience. Who you gunna hire. Any employer in the land will take one of the experienced ones, as long as they are not an asshat in the interview.
Also contrary to popular belief time =/= money, in my opinion anyway.
Sadly the "decide and it will fit" theory didn't work out too well the first time.
Don't get me wrong. Degrees have their place, and if I had an end goal in which a degree was either required or beneficial, then I would go and do it. What I won't do, is do a degree for the sake of it and just find myself three years down the in the same place. I don't know if you have looked up graduate unemployment recently, but it makes for pretty grim reading. My brother did a degree in his chosen field, graduated, and is now working in a supermarket to make ends meet. It's a story repeated way to often. Degree does not equal employment anymore. His mate, who skipped uni, went straight in and proved himself is now happy as larry, because he has more than a bit of paper to show he can do a job.
I'm not taking anyone's posts as negative, I'm grateful for everyone's input!
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Speaking to the decision makers at my firm, they have said they hugely prefer school leavers (those without degrees) to graduates, because they can be trained exactly how they want, are typically more driven (in their experience), and the degree adds no value to the roll. And that's coming from one of the top accounting firms globally.
Sorry mate, that's bollocks. Dunno which of the big four you work for, but I work at kpmg and they have big problems with the school leaver programme as so many are not prepared for the work, both academic and professional. Anyway, it's irrelevant for you now as you no longer fall in a school leaver bracket.
I completely empathise with your predicament as I also quickly found that I hate accounting and couldn't quit without paying back the fees, which I couldn't afford to do. However, I will say this, I battled on and got my ACA and it was a true character building experience.
It helps to focus you on what you really want to do (I'm the same as you now, I no longer believe any job is worth it as long as it pays well, it simply isn't!) and the beauty of an ACA is that it does open doors. Bare in mind that you will be about 23 when you qualify and you can then go and do other things, at home, abroad, pretty much where you want and in a huge number of roles. I've gone through this and I'm 29! All my managers were about 24..
However, if you want to move on into a field such as engineering then get yourself to uni, I agree that the value of a degree has fallen as you said earlier, but for a specialised field you need one.
My advice as someone who wanted nothing else but to quit (I suffered the verging on tears etc before going into work because I hated it so much) is to suck it up and stick at it, your future self will thank you for it for the opportunities you will have. I've landed a job in Corporate Finance Infrastructure (transport) now starting in September and I'm writing this post sat by a pool in Vietnam as I took a nice career break in the meantime.
There's more to accounting than accounting :)
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Sorry, I didn't even notice your reply!
Don't KPMG send their school leavers to uni anyway? Or they get a degree at least?
Thanks for the input, interesting to hear it from someone else who has done ACA. I know ACA is a massive key to a whole host of doors, I'm just not convicted any of those doors are right for me. And I'm not sure my mental health can handle three more years to open them either.
I'm currently planning on leaving in September and getting some bottom rung ledger clerk position, that really is 9-5 and that I can forget about when I get home of an evening. The thinking being that this should give me breathing space to think about what I want to do, while still paying the bills and not getting into training debt with my current employer.
Uni is still a serious contender though, more so that when I wrote the first post. I am just scared of making the wrong degree choice. Which is pretty out of character for me as usually I'm a "just do it" kind of guy. But I guess I am cautious as that attitude landed me in my current position.