GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: remlapeel on 20 January 2015, 19:03
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Had my revo map done 8 days ago and today I noticed my clutch slips around 2500rpm in 5th/6th gear for around 400-500revs and returns. It's only random and I have only experienced this a few times but not sure what to do?
It's a manual 2014 PP with 24k on the clock, before the question is asked. I can drive and I don't ride the clutch
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I'm no mechanic but the clutch probs will slip, it wasn't designed for the extra horses your now running.
In my view options:
1. Learn where it slips and apply acceleration to not let it slip
2. Sports clutch time
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I heard these clutched were good for way past the 300bhp mark. Any idea what the warranty is like?
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Are you sure it slips, mine sometimes used to hesitate in 6th around 3.5k I thought my clutch was slipping but the map just needed tweaking. But if it is slipping I suggest you stay in 5th if accelerating hard and only gently cruise in 6th. Are there any clutch kits out yet like sachs?
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I can see the see and hear the engine revs increase but the power is gone, then it kicks back in and it's fine again. I though the first time it happened it may have been ESC kicking in but it isn't. Happened twice on the way home in 5th and 6th. Both times around the same Rev point. I'm assuming peak torque?
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I clutch slipped twice in my Leon and when it did the rev's skyrocketed until I changed gear or backed off followed by a horrible smell, so you sure it's not map related? In terms of warranty not a prayer as it's strictly non wear and tear anyway
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I will contact the revo dealer tomorrow and see what he says. It's is strange it is only at a certain revs. I had the clutch slip on an old escort until it died and it doesn't feel the same. I have tried to get it to slip by putting it into 4th going 30 and nothing, solid as a rock. Literally apart from 2500-3000 in 6th a few times it's fine. Just don't want it to get worse. Any idea on the cost of a clutch?
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your car is producing a shed load of torque which is killing your clutch not the power, it has more than a mapped R due to the nature of the turbo
given the GTI doesn't have a lot of grunt top end you tend to be lazy driving a manual and ride the torque curve doing in gear pulls from low revs rather than dropping it down a gear and using the power
this is the primary reason why i went DSG as i like changing down a cog or two to be on the peak
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No idea on clutch costs, you'd be the first to buy one I bet.
Wigit, it doesn't sound like clutch slip. Could be the ecu reigning the power back for all we know, like it's about to go into limp mode but saves itself.
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It looks like apr are well aware of clutch problems
Clutch Protection:
APR’s standard Stage I ECU Upgrade offers a large increase in low-end torque, which may overpower the factory clutch. While APR did not experience clutch slip at the advertised torque levels and even higher, others may due to clutch health and driving style. APR recommends upgrading slipping clutches, but has also created special software designed to deliver the same peak horsepower with a cap on low end torque to reduce or eliminate slipping. These specific files are available with various torque caps set lower than the standard Stage I ECU Upgrade.
But graham might be on to something with the ecu kicking in,I have a revo mk7 dsg which went into limp mode after giving it the full beans,after a about 5min epc light turned off & power was back.
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maybe OP can say whether revs just rise a little
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All im thinking is that if a clutch slips, does it not move more than 500revs and then comes back down on its own accord?
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my rocco had clutch slip, first was a little blip and never, then as time went on it would go about 1,500, then disappeared for a couple of months and then new clutch time, then you have a flawed car for driving around in traffic
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Ok, fingers crossed it's the ECU having a moment. It is strange because I can't replicate the problem if I try. It only happens randomly. I'll check it out with revo tomorrow and keep you guys posted. Is there a way of putting the car in 'stock mode' until I know what it is?
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I thought you could switch maps with revo?
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You can put the car into stock mode ,but you have to buy revo sps dongle , then you can choose which mode you want,stock mode ,stage 1 98ron fuel or race 104 Ron fuel ,it's about £100.
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Well if you dont wanna fork out for that you could try a different Ron assuming you're running 98. Should lower bhp and it might be safer on the clutch
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Do REVO not do a tamer 95RON map which would have lower peak torque and power figures but might be a bit smoother?
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Ive only seen an APR Low 'non tubro blowing uppy' output map, doubt revo need to do one as there map seems to be in between the two already?
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Interesting topic this...
I've thought for a while there might be something up with my clutch. Then tonight while reversing on my drive (bit of snow as well), i did everything as normal and the car revved pretty high but pretty much didnt move and i got a horrible smell. Is this not clutch slip (cant be s**t driving, theres no incline to reverse up)?
Only done 6000 miles and they have been mostly B roads 50-60mph so not much clutch action.
Never gone through a clutch before or had this happen.
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I have an appointment with Clive Atthowe on Saturday to get it looked at. The man is a genius and luckily my revo dealer. Been out and about today and haven't managed to get any slip at all. I'm confused....
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I have an appointment with Clive Atthowe on Saturday to get it looked at. The man is a genius and luckily my revo dealer. Been out and about today and haven't managed to get any slip at all. I'm confused....
Definitely not a momentary lack of traction that is over so soon the dash doesn't light up? Slippage only happening in the wet or cold?
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I have an appointment with Clive Atthowe on Saturday to get it looked at. The man is a genius and luckily my revo dealer. Been out and about today and haven't managed to get any slip at all. I'm confused....
+1 on Clive Atthowe. Really knowledgeable guy. Diagnosed and fixed a problem on a previous (non-VW) car I owned some years ago that the main dealer had a number of attempts at fixing without success.
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Rob, if it smells bad it's your clutch. I've never known why they have to smell so bad but they do, suggest you go complain to your dear if you're unmapped
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Interesting topic this...
I've thought for a while there might be something up with my clutch. Then tonight while reversing on my drive (bit of snow as well), i did everything as normal and the car revved pretty high but pretty much didnt move and i got a horrible smell. Is this not clutch slip (cant be s**t driving, theres no incline to reverse up)?
Only done 6000 miles and they have been mostly B roads 50-60mph so not much clutch action.
Never gone through a clutch before or had this happen.
There’s been a few people with stock Rs that have cooked their clutches. VW longevity doesn’t seem up to its usual standards for all affected. Hopefully the inclusion of autohold on the MK7s will have VW unable to accuse you of causing it by riding the clutch at junctions etc.
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Cheers guys, got it booked in Monday at the dealers to be looked at along with a buzzing sound around 3000rpm in sport mode (assuming this is sound acktuator).
Glad I held off modifying it...
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Had mine looked at today by Clive, turns out it is my clutch slipping at the peak torque at 2200rpm under maximum load in 5th and 6th.....yay!
Soooo, I have called VW and got a quote...£1480 fitted. Barton given its 9months old and only had the revo map a week. I truly truly hate the car...worst car I have ever owned.
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Well I am sorry to hear that mate, can't you remove the map completely and then try to get some sort of good will out of vw or can you not recreate it standard? If not suggest you stick 95 Ron in and wait for decent aftermarket ones to come out, at less than £1500 anyway.
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Clive is looking into a price for me. He did say with how infrequent it is, even with the map on it should hold a long time, as long as I change down rather than lazy drive using the low down torque. VW want £580 for diagnostics to take it apart to check if it's a warranty issue. If its not and I get the clutch fitted whilst it's apart then it's £1480 if I don't then I have wasted £580 in diagnostic time. They just take the piss.
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As soon as you've done 10k miles, if there's nothing abnormal found when they open it up (debris etc) and it just looks worn, they can (and probably will) claim "wear and wear", although I think people should expect a minimum of 70k miles from a clutch running stock power if they're not riding the clutch at junctions and being savage on their gear changes all the time (OK, Remlapeel's isn't stock, but a few on stock have had theirs go).
For Remlapeel's to go so soon it would seem that his was built to a "just enough" tolerance if he hasn't been extremely unlucky.
Haven't heard of a single GTDer yet who's cooked their clutch - with or without modification.
Any quotes for an uprated clutch fitted elsewhere Remlapeel?
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well this does not bode well for my clutch then. +1 on hearing the aftermarket options they come up with.
I'll probably be looking for something like this http://www.hstuning.com/product_info.php?products_id=3659 nothing too fancy or hardcore for my clutch feel :smiley:
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Not had anything back from anyone else yet, I'm guessing they are putting together a price being as it's such a new car.
I did contact revo who suggested I get Clive to back the power off slightly, but my argument would be, why get it mapped at all if I'm reducing the power over their stated figures. I could just get a bolt on box a lot cheaper.
My biggest frustration is the length of time it has had the map, now 13 days. (Been slipping for 5) and I don't give my car a hard time or ride the gears. I had my Mk6 diesel for 70k from new and was solid as a rock. Very disappointing and given my history with my local dealer I know they will say it's wear and tear. I have been complaining since the first week I got the car about multiple issues and this is just another in a long line.
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I do have to wonder if the R and the GTI get the same clutch. If they do, and most remapped GTIs are pushing similar power/torque as an R, then you'd expect the stock clutch to be fine for a remapped GTI (but not necessarily a remapped R). In fact, hearing that a few stock Rs have slipped their clutches at under 6k miles, it does make me wonder how much over-engineering VW are putting in to their TSI clutches (almost nowt?).
My GTD had the DTUK box on for 9k miles without issue. My dad's old MK5 GT 170TDI was traded in at 123k miles, the latter 55k miles of that being run with a TDI-tuning box pushing it to 205ps and 440Nm. That's a very small sample size, but coupled with no-one on GTDs with DTUK slipping clutches that we know of, it would seem that TDI clutches are more resilient.
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Could be using the same clutch on the GTD but with less power it causes less issue?
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Could be using the same clutch on the GTD but with less power it causes less issue?
Less power but significantly more torque for a GTD with the DTUK box - 240PS and 505Nm, the GTD's clutch would seem to have more over-engineering built in for the car it is in (even if it is the same clutch).
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Very true, mine is running 320bhp and 450NM with the map on 98RON.
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Seems strange that me and Graham have experienced no problems. I'm running 320BHP & 450NM torque.
I think Graham was close to 500NM?
Makes me think that you're clutch was likely faulty at standard and the map has exposed that fault quicker?
The clutch in the MK6 could handle a lot of power but guess it had less torque...
APR's map kicks in a lot more torque than Revo's linear map and that's what allegedly blew the turbo on APR's GTI. Funnily enough they've gone and released a new map with less torque low down in the revs.
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525 @ 2250. I pray for my clutch everyday lol. But I agree, bet your clutch was bound to fail but you'll never prove it to vw
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Read carefully the information from Revo & whoever installed the upgrade, if they claim that a standard clutch is upto coping with the increase in power, you could make a claim via small claims court, does not cost a lot and you do not need a solicitor, Citizens advice can point you in the right direction.
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It will be interesting to see how this pans out.
I have a DTUK box ready to go on my GTD - although saying that, it does not arrive until March and I still have to run it in :grin:
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Does anyone know whether the GTI/GTD/R run different clutches?
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APR's map kicks in a lot more torque than Revo's linear map and that's what allegedly blew the turbo on APR's GTI. Funnily enough they've gone and released a new map with less torque low down in the revs.
I feared for my GTD clutch longevity when I had the TDI-tuning box on, the power delivery was so harsh when you put your foot down, the DTUK's delivery was very smooth and linear. I made full use of the extra 55ps and 125Nm for the 7 months I had the DTUK box, and now my dad is enjoying it (although his is a DSG, so a slightly different clutch set-up (can the DSG generally handle more or less power than the manual?).
It would definitely be good to know if the GTI, GTD and R share the same clutch. If so, I would have thought that a fault-free
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APR's map kicks in a lot more torque than Revo's linear map and that's what allegedly blew the turbo on APR's GTI. Funnily enough they've gone and released a new map with less torque low down in the revs.
I feared for my GTD clutch longevity when I had the TDI-tuning box on, the power delivery was so harsh when you put your foot down, the DTUK's delivery was very smooth and linear. I made full use of the extra 55ps and 125Nm for the 7 months I had the DTUK box, and now my dad is enjoying it (although his is a DSG, so a slightly different clutch set-up (can the DSG generally handle more or less power than the manual?).
It would definitely be good to know if the GTI, GTD and R share the same clutch. If so, I would have thought that a fault-free GTI clutch could handle the extra power and torque that would put it around the region of stock R output (OK, a bit more torque).
If I were the OP, i'd be getting my car back to stock and see if you can cause the clutch to slip. If you can't replicate it at stock, the VW garage isn't going to see a defect and will be doing work for nowt if they do any at all after not being able to replicate the fault.
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We haven’t considered the gearing differences between the GTI/R (assuming they are geared the same) and the GTD have we?
At 80mph in 6th the GTD is doing 2200rpm, what are the GTI and R doing in 6th at 80mph? I’m guessing somewhere in the region of 2700-2900, lets say it’s 2800 (until someone comes back with the correct figure), that’s 127% of the GTDs rpm, and assume same difference in every gear.
505Nm in a boxed GTD (240ps) is going to be pushing around the same rotational forces at the wheels as a GTI with 397Nm when that gearing change is taken into account.
The remapped GTIs we’re talking about here have upwards of 450Nm and 300ps. It would seem to me that if the standard clutch is adequate for an R with 380Nm and 300ps, but only has a small over-engineering tolerance, it should be fine for a GTD, but you’re pushing your luck with a GTI putting out similar ps to a stock R but with 18% more torque.
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On my remapped GTI at 2200rpm the car is traveling at 63mph. I have a few videos recorded to check the clutch slip and at 2800rpm the car is at 74mph. I would estimate at 80mph the engine will be around 3000rpm. I am considering going back to stock to preserve my clutch. I cannot find a single aftermarket option at the moment.
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http://www.hstuning.com/product_info.php?products_id=3888
not exactly close tho... but proof there is life out there.. :whistle: (X-Files Tune) :whistle:
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Just been looking through the VW website and found this
Items where the lifetime of the component is or can be influenced by driving style and external factors will only be considered under the terms of the warranty for a period of six months or 6,500 miles (whichever is soonest).Beyond that limit, the defects must be classified as wear and tear and will not be covered by the Volkswagen warranty.
Components subject to wear and tear include, but are not limited to:
Brake linings and disc pads
Clutch release bearings
Clutch pressure plates and centre plates
Tyres
Wiper blades (wiper rubbers have no warranty owing to their conditions of use)
Seat and backrest covers
Floor coverings
Spark plugs
Batteries for key fobs and alarms
Light bulbs
Shock Absorbers
6500miles is shocking cover for a clutch!
Also been to see MrClutch and been quoted £550 for a replacement clutch with a 20,000 or 2 year warranty. They are aware the car has been mapped and have said the standard clutch should hold fine
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If you're only staying stage 1 then I'd risk it and go Mr clutch.
Is the car battery covered on that list cos I think mines knackered as it barely ever goes into start stop anymore?
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Yes Battery is covered :
8 Year High Voltage Battery Warranty
A guarantee for eight years or 99,360 miles (160,000 km) whichever comes first, on all material or manufacturing defects.
Gradual reduction in battery capacity over time is integral to the nature of the component, and does not represent a defect under the terms of this guarantee, as long as the reduction in capacity is not in excess of the value specified for this vehicle in the owner's manual.
The guarantee on high voltage batteries does not apply if the defect has been caused by the battery not being used, handled or maintained as described in the owner's manual. This applies in particular to charging the battery.
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If you're only staying stage 1 then I'd risk it and go Mr clutch.
Is the car battery covered on that list cos I think mines knackered as it barely ever goes into start stop anymore?
Mine got replaced ok under warranty following the dealer testing it during the annual service
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Yeah think i'm going to mention it to the dealers when it goes in for its second service. That and the door seals, might as well get them changed half way through its life with me.
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As far as I remember the DSG can handle more torque than the manual can. I'm sure a mechanic will be along to correct me if I'm wrong.
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As far as I remember the DSG can handle more torque than the manual can. I'm sure a mechanic will be along to correct me if I'm wrong.
The DSG box in the GTI/GTD has an official limit of 450Nm, don't know what the official limit of the manual box is (assuming GTI/GTD/R have the same clutch).
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Dsg can handle more but I imagine it costs a shed load to upgrade if you get that far
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As far as I remember the DSG can handle more torque than the manual can. I'm sure a mechanic will be along to correct me if I'm wrong.
The DSG box in the GTI/GTD has an official limit of 450Nm, don't know what the official limit of the manual box is (assuming GTI/GTD/R have the same clutch).
I'm sure the manual gearbox can handle greater torque than that; however, that doesn't include the clutch... The other point is, that it may handle that torque or greater in either case... but for how long?
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UPDATE: I decided to take this in to VW to have the clutch replaced, although it's only a minor slip, it bugs that crap out of me.
Upon taking this in last week, the technician couldn't get the clutch to slip. So they didn't want to just replace it without a diagnosed fault. (I did go out on a test drive and showed the technician the slipping). He did explain that it was the clutch slipping but wasn't convinced it was clutch at fault, so sent some info to VW and the have suggested FOC diagnostics to open the gearbox and clutch to see what's happening.
Today I returned my car to them and had a call about an hour ago saying it wasn't my clutch but I had a fault with my flywheel, it had dumped loads of the grease out and wasn't making good contact with the clutch causing the intermittent slip. The have replaced the flywheel and I can collect it tomorrow.....and all under warranty!!
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Excellent news mate wonder how many of the 6mt clutch slipping threads across the net could be this problem instead...
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Excellent news mate wonder how many of the 6mt clutch slipping threads across the net could be this problem instead...
It would certainly be reassuring to know if this was the reason for "clutch slip" on a few stock Rs.
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Got this back today and I have a shiny new clutch and flywheel. Feels better now than when I picked it up. Even got a free bottle of champagne!
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Absolute result
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Got this back today and I have a shiny new clutch and flywheel. Feels better now than when I picked it up. Even got a free bottle of champagne!
Sorry to drag up an old post, but I think my GTI is suffering the same thing......feels like it's starting to slip in 5th/6th revs about 500rpm then catches again, only got 20k on the clock, completely stock.
Surely my clutch hasn't failed already?
Any advice other than hit a dealer up?
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Might have done - parts fail. In warranty?
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It's under their 3 year manufacturer's warranty, but according to VW's website their warranty classes clutches as wear and tear past 6k I believe...so would be excluded I guess...
Don't feel obliged to shell out if it's only going to last another 20k, seems quite poor to me (Considering I've not hard launched it ever, and had it from 3k )
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The manual clutches are quite close to the limit as standard - a simple tuning box or stage 1 remap can easily make it slip.
That said, It shouldn't be slipping at that age I think. Unfortunately only getting the car at 3k means you don't know how much it was slipped/ridden before that (although it shouldn't make that much difference in 3k).
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Did you buy the car from a dealer? If so, it's worth asking him about this. Technically, it might not be a warranty item, but 20K miles isn't much and they do have a bit of give and take with doubtful issues. Talk to him nicely - he'll be more helpful then!
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Did you buy the car from a dealer? If so, it's worth asking him about this. Technically, it might not be a warranty item, but 20K miles isn't much and they do have a bit of give and take with doubtful issues. Talk to him nicely - he'll be more helpful then!
I did indeed, Inchcape Manchester...their pre-sales were good, can't comment on post though, as this is my first issue
Guess i'll give them a ring and see what they say...
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Better clutches are available if needed... :smiley:
http://store.blackforestindustries.com/mk7gti20t1.html (http://store.blackforestindustries.com/mk7gti20t1.html)
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Either my clutch or my wheels slipped a little at the weekend. The R now has 23.5k miles, completely stock, never ridden the clutch.
Coming home from the Metrocentre on Saturday at minus 0.5C ambient, was doing about 35mph in 4th on a straight slight incline. Put my foot down a bit and revs crept up fron 2600 to 2900rpm over a few seconds, car didn't move noticeably quicker in that time until the revs went back down as gently as they'd crept up and then the car made progress. No clutch stink, no TC/ESC lights came on. Managed to replicate it again yesterday at +1C on the flat, in 4th at same speeds. Doesn't do it in 5th/6th. I normally drop to 3rd to accelerate.
I suppose I won't know for sure if it is clutch until I can replicate it (hopefully not) on a warmer day.
Thoughts (apart from "should've got DSG")?
Made some strong enquiries about the new Polo GTI at the weekend. Dealerships still don't know when the manual is going to be available to order - my guess is BW22/new model year. Looking like Flash Red or Pearl Black GTI+ with Brescias.
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Is the polo replacing the R Matt?
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No Chris,
Need to replace the A1 3dr with something 5 door and Polo GTI fits the bill. The amount of cost cutting i've seen with VW lately is offputting, but everyone seems to be doing it - BMW 420 Msport I had as a courtesy car had a surprisingly cheap looking/feeling interior (dash and door cards with painted silver and blue bits).
I wonder if Audi are cutting costs where they think it won't be noticed? We all used to look forward to updated kit on model year changes, now it's a case of wondering what they're stripping out.
I have an invite to come and see one of the first Polo GTIs in the country, Scotswood Road Lookers are getting one in , in about 3 weeks for prep before the customer gets it.
Rear legroom in the Polo looked identical to that in the Golf. I adjusted the drivers seat to my liking and measured the gap between leading edge of rear seat and front seat's back - there's 11mm in it! Boot looked pretty big too.
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With the warmer weather today, I got a chance to try and replicate slip on the way home.
Ambient temp was around 7C this afternoon. 3 miles into my commute home, I managed to instigate slip in 4th to occur between 3100 and 3500rpm (higher engine speed than the weekend). The car had been in the shade all day, so stone cold tyres.
Tried again in 4th up a very steep incline (the sliproad up to A1 northbound from Scotswood Road in Newcastle) - didn't happen in 4th, but a little slip in 5th for a second at about 3000 revs - about 5 miles into my commute.
Tried to instigate 3 times in 4th and 5th much later on in the commute and didn't happen.
A little tyre traction loss which is much worse in cold ambient temp and before the tyres have warmed up? I have noticed a little fade on grip on my PSS tyres in low temps vs last Winter when pushing moderately hard on a bend (still a lot better than the Bridgestones).
Maybe some weird settling/contamination on the clutch plates related to very little use lately (the R has done about 1000 miles since Christmas, some weeks it doesn't move between Monday and Friday) that has been scrubbed off with a few slips?
Might make my local dealership aware of it so that it is logged with mileage, even if the issue doesn't happen again for a while.
Anyone else had intermittent slippage rather than slippage you could replicate on demand? Does clutch slippage usually cause a rapid increase in revs rather than a slow creep of 300rpm over a few seconds as I observed? Does slippage abate on it's own if you don't ease off the throttle immediately (again this is what happened to me, the car's progress "caught up").
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I used to get it when I had a tuning box fitted and could recreate it most of the time when tried. I guess my clutch was marginal when it was built. Once back to standard I couldn't replicate the fault with it so have left it off for the time being.
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My R's gearchange (the feel through the gearstick while changing) has always felt a little rough, reminiscent of a Ford Transit 2.5 Diesel - almost feels "ridgy". Probably twice a month, either going into 1st from neutral after a stop-start stop in traffic, or being in 6th and dropping to 3rd for a blast, the gearstick feels like it's not going to go in and to do so you'd have to force it, so I put it in another gear (without bringing the clutch back up) and the back into the intended 1st or 3rd.
I always felt the 2 things were related, and although the non-change was too infrequent to replicate, the ridgy feeling of the gear change was always there.
Have brought it up on multiple visits and always been fobbed off - "it's running in, will get smoother" or "the gearbox is a bit agricultural to handle the extra power".
Had 9 VAGs from new and every single one had a smoother box/change. Wonder whether something has been put together very slightly out of alignment on the drivetrain (clutch/gearbox/flywheel) from the factory, and related to this clutch slip?
I don't ride the clutch nor use it as a footrest.
Seems I have a few options, most costing big money:-
1. Take it to VW. Won't touch it unless they can replucate the slip. If they do replicate the slip they open it up, decide it's "normal" wear and charge me almost £600 to put it back together.
2. As per 1, but they find a manufacturing related fault and replace.
3. Bite the bullet and get a Sachs Organic clutch at my cost for £900 fitted if the flywheel isn't goosed too.
4. P/x or sell way earlier than intended and suffer more depreciation.
After dieselgate money saving, bet VW won't approve option 2 unless fault is conclusively VW's fault.
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Mine started slipping after Apr low map on mine PP" Manual.
It's the increase in torque the standard unit can't handle.
Now upgraded to a Sachs unit and high torque map it's a beast. :laugh:
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Mine started slipping after Apr low map on mine PP" Manual.
It's the increase in torque the standard unit can't handle.
Now upgraded to a Sachs unit and high torque map it's a beast. :laugh:
How do you find the Sachs unit?
Did you go for the organic plate or the upgraded Sintered plate?
Any additional noise / chatter over standard?
I understand pedal feel improves with mileage.
Really want to go with a stage 1 tune so looking at clutch options.