GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: C3PO on 12 January 2015, 20:38
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Might be a stupid question, but I had read in the vw brochure about the R requiring a higher RON than normal unleaded. So, before I take delivery does any current owner know, or the experience within the forum know what it should run on? :smiley:
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The R runs on 98, mine is fed on a diet of V-Power or Momentum, have had to used BP Ultimate if the others are not available and not noticed any issues
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It will run on 95, but at a slightly lower output (280PS I think I've seen mention of?), and any monetary gains from using the cheaper fuel will likely be eaten up by lower mpg. False economy and all that.
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Thanks, thought as much, but wanted to check. Will make holidays in Cornwall difficult as finding petrol stations with petrol higher than RON 95 is a challenge.
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Probably going to stick shell 98 in mine. What's the Tesco one?
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Shell V Power Nitro is 99 RON (I emailed and asked Shell), Tesco is also 99 RON, they are the only two 99 RON on UK market.
Plenty of discussion on vwroc.com
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Even better...
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With my September ordered R coming sometime in 2015 (probably), i've been taking a keen interest in Ron98/99 prices every time I fill the GTD up. My current forecourt of choice is a BP garage within spitting distance of an Asda which has a basic unmanned fuel station (pay by card before you fill up kind of thing). They've had to do some price matching as a result, but the Asda only does basic diesel and RON95 unleaded.
I was shocked to see that the premium Diesel and petrol "Ultimate" variants costing so much more than the standard varieties - Ultimate petrol was 19p a litre more than the 95 stuff, and Ultimate diesel was 23p a litre more than standard, the premium prices have hardly dropped at all with that particular forecourt.
Definitely need to keep an eye on the premium prices, a headlining RON95 price on the well lit sign is no guarantee of competitive premium fuel prices when you pull up by the pump to fill up.
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Even better...
Nope, the extra RON will make absolutely no difference.
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Its a 2 litre 4 cylinder? its not particularly high maintenance with slim operating margins, i highly doubt that it needs premium fuel. If porsche and aston martin tell you its a waste of time to do it why on earth would you put it into a vw. sounds very silly to spend the extra 15p per litre to me because you won't gain that back in mpg and also, you aren't pushing the car to its limits all day every day, if you were track driving you might find some small difference with the extra additives they have in them but town driving the car won't warrant any benefits IMO
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Its a 2 litre 4 cylinder? its not particularly high maintenance with slim operating margins, i highly doubt that it needs premium fuel. If porsche and aston martin tell you its a waste of time to do it why on earth would you put it into a vw. sounds very silly to spend the extra 15p per litre to me because you won't gain that back in mpg and also, you aren't pushing the car to its limits all day every day, if you were track driving you might find some small difference with the extra additives they have in them but town driving the car won't warrant any benefits IMO
It's how it is set up - if the car is optimised for RON98 (like the R is), it will not be running at its best on RON95. I can see the logic in not pumping in RON98 on a car that is not set up for it - that does seem a genuine waste of money.
Cheapest i've seen Shell Vpower is 11p a litre dearer than standard Asda unleaded (104p locally), it's 10.5% dearer. If the R is 10% more economical on 98 than 95 on a mpg basis (I don't know that it is 10% better, but i'm sure it will be better) then running it on 95 is a false economy.
If you want to run the R as per the manufacturer's guidelines and to get the best out of it, you won't be touching 95 when 98 is available (for a fair price).
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I always run my ED35 on 98 RON, it is important for turbo engines to run on the octane it was designed for , 95 is a compromise it will still work but you will see less mpg and power. Engines are calibrated for the fuel in the country they will be sold in and the recommended fuel is going to get you the best performance and mpg (Average 3% gain over 95). The higher octane also reduces knock, when the ECU senses the fuel quality it will adjust the ignition timing to suit.
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Ok, if they advise it then that makes a change, however i would be more interested in whether the increases do warrant the increase in price, i completely agree MonkeyHanger, if the fuel gives you a greater %increase in your desired trait, be it power or more fuel economy do it. But i seem to remember watch a video where the increases were small, and with one companies fuel, none. Im not saying i wouldn't adhere to the advise and put a higher octane in every so often, my dad does one tank premium for every 3 normal, i think id follow that sort of approach maybe. It pyschologically stings more when you break the £100 on a tank (80 litres in the cls63 and was 100 in the aston) it brings a tear to your eye. but with fuel cheaper at the moment this isn't such a problem
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Love the AMG 5.5 engine, what a beast. But I think I would be putting the ol' premium in that! Did your dad change from an AM, V8 as well? I just love V8's in general I guess :whistle:
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Drives a CLS63/Aston Martin and complains about the difference in price between regular and super unleaded...
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Drives a CLS63/Aston Martin and complains about the difference in price between regular and super unleaded...
my thought as well... :whistle:
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Love the AMG 5.5 engine, what a beast. But I think I would be putting the ol' premium in that! Did your dad change from an AM, V8 as well? I just love V8's in general I guess :whistle:
Yeah its a monster, it quite happily spins its wheels up at 70 if you give it the beans, and yes changed from the Vantage S. Needed something more useable :')
Drives a CLS63/Aston Martin and complains about the difference in price between regular and super unleaded...
They drink fuel, he's not bothered about mpg and i challenge nearly everyone to try and beat it so the marginal power increase is irrelevant. It all comes down to how much value you put on the increases, clearly you place more on it than I or my father does
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Its more than just performance and MPG , running 95 in a 98 calibrated engine will result in higher carbon build up and overall shorten the life of the engine,higher emissions,higher cylinder temps etc etc there is a whole host of reasons past power that you should run on what they tell you to. Also as harsh at it sounds if you get bad knocking resulting in bent rods etc dont go crying to VW as your warranty will be void (Email read from a master tech at VW)!
It is a performance car which arent cheap to buy, stop being tight and put the proper fuel in! :smiley:
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Its more than just performance and MPG , running 95 in a 98 calibrated engine will result in higher carbon build up and overall shorten the life of the engine,higher emissions,higher cylinder temps etc etc there is a whole host of reasons past power that you should run on what they tell you to. Also as harsh at it sounds if you get bad knocking resulting in bent rods etc dont go crying to VW as your warranty will be void (Email read from a master tech at VW)!
It is a performance car which arent cheap to buy, stop being tight and put the proper fuel in! :smiley:
I don't even own an R, I'm getting a GTI. :smiley:
You seem well educated on the matter so ill believe you on the matter
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*I have previously carried out my own calculations regarding higher octane fuels and have achieved higher MPG, regularly driving the same route to compare.
*Some years ago owned a Ford and the engine would 'pink' (pre-ignition) under load when going uphill when using 95 RON, drove same route with 97 RON and no pinking.
*Get a Shell Drivers Club card and you get double points on V Power, the fuel vouchers that you receive partially offset the higher cost.
*I emailed VW regarding fuel RON for my R and they replied saying that regular use of lower octane fuel could invalidate the warranty.
*If you're paying in the region of £30k for a car, why skimp on fuel?
*You don't buy an R if you want high MPG, 300 horses take a lot of feeding.
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Love the AMG 5.5 engine, what a beast. But I think I would be putting the ol' premium in that! Did your dad change from an AM, V8 as well? I just love V8's in general I guess :whistle:
Yeah its a monster, it quite happily spins its wheels up at 70 if you give it the beans, and yes changed from the Vantage S. Needed something more useable :')
Drives a CLS63/Aston Martin and complains about the difference in price between regular and super unleaded...
They drink fuel, he's not bothered about mpg and i challenge nearly everyone to try and beat it so the marginal power increase is irrelevant. It all comes down to how much value you put on the increases, clearly you place more on it than I or my father does
Charv
The benefits are well established particularly on cars that can adapt the timing advance such as the Golf GTI or R. If you plan on remapping the car, better fuel will give the tuner a bigger opportunity to safely increase the power.
My comment regarding the fuel was just a bit of perspective. The cost difference amounts to a small proportion of the total cost of ownership of those cars. Often people forget about other costs because they readily see the cost of filling up rather than servicing and depreciation for example.
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My comment regarding the fuel was just a bit of perspective. The cost difference amounts to a small proportion of the total cost of ownership of those cars. Often people forget about other costs because they readily see the cost of filling up rather than servicing and depreciation for example.
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I see the point, £10 a tank say on a 100k car is nothing and when its compared to maybe £1000 minor service it seems silly to question it. its just psychologically, paying under £100 a tank is far better that over that. its why fuel is 105.99, it just sounds better than 106. I get what you mean and will take it into account when i am filling up come april.
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I wonder how many of the 50p lease R's will get run on 98.
In fact I wouldn't mind betting a hell of a lot of them get run on plain Super 97 RON.
Not just the leased cars either.
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I wonder how many of the 50p lease R's will get run on 98.
In fact I wouldn't mind betting a hell of a lot of them get run on plain Super 97 RON.
Not just the leased cars either.
Is there anything wrong with RON97 (like Esso has)? Do VW state to use 98 just because it is smack in the middle of 97/98/99 Super unleaded variants you see around in the UK? On paper at least 97 has to be better than 95 as it'll resist pinking appreciably better than 95 under the higher compression ratios of cars set up for 98, would the timing be altered at all using 97 rather than 98? Conversely, does anyone see any benefit/harm in using 99 over 98? As long as it ignites easy enough under spark after compression for full combustion then I can't see any gains/losses there either (although with premium fuel there is the expectation of better detergents to keep the engine clean).
Some people naively believe that the RON rating is a measuure of potency/calorific content.
If all I could get my hands on was 97, I wouldn't sweat it. Going by the petrol prices daily email I get, Esso 97 and Tesco 99 are a good 3p a litre cheaper than the Shell/BP alternative (although Shell points do redress some of that balance)
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On the odd occasion I've pulled up at a pump that doesn't have the fancy stuff and I've put regular unleaded in, I can't say I've noticed the difference in terms of power or consumption. That doesn't mean there isn't any, I just haven't noticed any. But IMO if you've spent all that cash on an R then you might as well pay a few pence more per litre and use 98/99. My long term average after 4k miles is 27.1, which is pretty decent given I have a penchant for Race & Sport when the opportunity arises :evil:
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It will only make a difference if the ecu detects detonation (pinking) and backs the timing off. Assuming it does, then you are likely to see approaching 10% less peak power and torque but putting 100 RON fuel in were it available (like it is in, for example, Italy) will make absolutely no difference because the ecu will not advance the timing in this case.
It is a false economy to use 95RON in a car tune to use 98RON for the reasons discussed above...
I certainly notice the difference if I have to run my 911 on 95RON... throttle response and acceleration are definately affected as well as fuel consumption...
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Is there anything wrong with RON97 (like Esso has)? Do VW state to use 98 just because it is smack in the middle of 97/98/99 Super unleaded variants you see around in the UK?
No, it's simply because premium petrol in most of EU is 98 RON (with exception of higher octane versions that have come on market in last few years). There is no 97 RON in Germany at all.... it's either 95, 98 or whatever higher number Shell, BP and others sell. 97 RON is very much a UK thing, I haven't seen it elsewhere (certainly not any of the German speaking countries, Nordics or Central Europe).
There is also no difference in ECU between EU market cars.... all fuel is EN xxxx anyway.